Tech: Watch WinXP Die?

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 07:46 PM

Actually, I am looking at the opposite problem. Dick gave me a disk printer which does not want nto work with XP. I am looking about for a Win 95 or 98 machine. That will be the only thing on it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: GUEST,JHWstill on XP and still with a full height
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 03:01 PM

Hostages to technology we are indeed.
Most of you will be looking at screens with the top few inches sawn-off.
To suit those who play games and watch films, neither of which are worthwhile jobs for a computer.
So operating systems have to suit sawn-off screens that shops try to tell me are Wide. Add to that gratuitous features enabled by ever expanding capacity. If I want a toy I'll go to toysRus.
My XP and my screen is still full height because if I write a letter or look at a website why would I want to see less!? and images are twice the size.
I'm pleased the updates have kept coming so long.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 04:21 PM

I was looking for an affordable soundcard like Richard's some time ago, but, maybe fortunately, both my mini-disc recorder AND my tape-recorder have died. And the computer in my Mitsubishi also croaked.

Hostages to technology, we are, and I don't like it!

I can't really get along with the tiny, cryptic LCD screens on modern solid-state recorders.

Sod it all! Support live music. And buy trucks!

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 01:44 PM

I'd think that the people writing stuff to screw up computers and so forth would pretty soon lose interest in aiming at computers still using XP, since they'd be fewer in number. But then what do I know"?

When things go wrong I just reinstall Windows and things seem to work OK.

Why can't they just say "that's good enough, we'll leave it at that and forget about upgradingnand innovation for tyennext century or do"? With computers and cars and everything.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 01:36 PM

I only shifted to Win7 when my XP laptop died. I am very glad that I avoided Vista.

Corporates avoid upgrading because there is just so much testing required.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 01:20 PM

I've stuck to XP for the last few years because I have a very good sound card (with analogue in and out, digital coax in and out, AND digital optical in and out) for which there is no driver for any later Win version. The manufacturer (Marian) tries to justify that by its being an old model, BUT doesn't offer any similar newer model.

In anticipation of having to abandon XP for reasons of security, I've now bought the most nearly similar sound card I can find (Audiophile 2496), which does have drivers at least up to Win7. I've bought it now as this model is already a few years old and I'm afraid it might not remain available much longer.

I've fought shy of trying Linux mainly because I'm already using both Windows and RISC OS and don't want to be using three OSs with three different user interfaces.

Richard

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 09:58 AM

Thanks, all, for the info about Noteworthy Composer.

Gurney, you hit the nail on the head. Me, I suspect the never-ending stream of OS's has to do with the growing robotness of the population, rather than the nature of the hardware.

I believe They are aiming for a world where the average 25-year-old can do a complex tax return using nothing but a joystick. Or perhaps a touchscreen.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: nickp
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 03:47 AM

Guest Nick - "atubecatcher works for me." Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a whirl.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: treewind
Date: 11 Apr 13 - 03:16 AM

If you want Noteworthy composer to run on Ubuntu (or any other flavour of Linux) you have to ask the Noteworthy Composer people to make it so.

If enough folks follow the sentiments being expressed around here and switch to Linux, more software will start becoming multi-platform, though it's quite hard to do if the program wasn't designed for that kind of portability in the first place.

Musescore is a free music notation program that runs on Windows, Max OSX and Linux. I doubt it's much use with your existing NWC files, but there might be a conversion program, or if NWC can export MusicXML files then Musescore can inport from those.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 05:48 PM

You bet, Gurney - to paraphrase Emerson, Technology is in the saddle and rides mankind. And it'll only get worse.

Somehow I thought it was supposed to be the other way 'round.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: Gurney
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 05:30 PM

Like Don()T, when XTpro becomes unusable, I think I'll go to Linux.

Sitting beside me is a W98 machine that I was given years ago. I made it my business machine when I had a business, it runs both the printers and the scanner (remember standalone scanners?)and has been endlessly reliable, a Gateway. It isn't on the net. If I boot it, it works faultlessly on everything I needed in business, and runs Nero5 so that I can use it for almost everything else BUT the net.
In my rack I have W98, W98SE, ME, and XP Pro. I'm tired of buying things from Microshite that are no improvement (for me) on what went before, and having to do hardware upgrades to run them, and software upgrades because I have to.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: GUEST,gnomad
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 04:58 PM

Noteworthy Forum indicates that Noteworthy Composer 2 could be run under Wine* back in 2009, so it seems likely it will still be possible, Leenia.

*Wine is a sort of adapter programme which enables you to run some Windows programmes on Linux machines. I have never needed to try it (nor Noteworthy) but it has been around a while.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: GUEST,Nick - from one nick to another
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 01:54 PM

nickp -
Shame. I really liked (and trusted!) XP. I've been on Win7 for about a year now and I'm pretty happy with it although I do miss the option of being able to record directly from the web. I guess there must be ways around that but have yet to find them and not enough time to spend looking.


atubecatcher works for me. free easy

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 01:39 PM

Will Ubuntu run Noteworthy Composer for me, Don?

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: pavane
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 01:23 PM

I am staying with winXP. Micrososft took things out of later versions that I still need. I don't want to rewrite ALL my VB code to use VB.Net - life is too short

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 12:49 PM

For me, if it's Goodbye XP, it's GOODBYE MICROSNOT!

HELLO UBUNTU!

I'm sick of the merry-go-round of Update/Upgrade, with a hefty price increase and a constant need for bigger and better hardware.

Open source on nearly everything already, so it won't be to much of a problem.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 12:41 PM

if XP is used on a PC that will not and never has seen 'tinternet then is no issue.

If there is an SP4 then it still not be an issue, why would you want security updates?

I always remember an RF bombarding rig (to test robustness for UK certification) running on Win 3.1 and when they calibrated it we asked the question - "why not Win 95?" and the man said "just wait while I switch it on, pause, did you spot the delay?"
Yes I did but I barely had time to say so. It was a proven system that did one job running on a fast PC (fast is relative to the date & Win 3.1). And he wasn't going to port the s/w on Win 95 - remember it keeled over (guaranteed) in 96 days. Vista, 7 & 8 all have to be constantly updated for (largely) unspecified reasons. Corporate Snooping aside.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 12:25 PM

XP, for me, has one tremendous advantage over later OSs: I can run DOS programs seamlessly. THis includes the archaic AskSam progam I use for maintaining Digitrad, as well as a number of other uses including invetrory control for CAMSCO Music. THe best
databsse I've ever encountered. (There's a Windows version, but it's not nearly as flexible)

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 11:26 AM

I had Win3.1 and I reluctantly switched to Win98...and I reluctantly switched to Win XP. I now realize I waited until I got the 'good' systems. My wife's laptop has Win7 (she barely found one after they started pushing Win8), and it seems to be 'ok'.

I bought as a 2nd machine, 3 years ago, a DELL with XP installed, but a disc for 7 included.

I'm thinking...........

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 10:21 AM

XP will certainly decline in use, particularly with corporate users, but it certainly won't die before I do! I'm not in the slightest worried about lack of updates, security or otherwise. I run XP in a virtual machine and it only accesses the net for updates and the occasional programme download. I have Windows Update set to automatic and Avast! Antivirus. I've just checked the Avast statistics - no nasties detected since I built this machine last July.

I'm not that bothered if I do get an infection - I take a snapshot of the virtual machine regularly and I can just dump the current file and go back to the previous version. It will be a relief to turn Updates off and not have to suffer the Windows update crawl - it sometimes takes more then 5 minutes to download and install updates.

Phil

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 10:09 AM

Richard - did you ever try Thunderbird for your email? Outlook gave me fits, but never a problem with Thunderbird.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: gnomad
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 08:58 AM

"AFAIK there is no real alternative to Outlook for handling email" - What do you wish the programme to do?
My own e-mail needs are very simple, and Opera handles them well enough both under Windows and Linux (I fell out with Thunderbird, can't remember why). Your needs sound more complex, but if you can explain what they are then someone might have an answer.

I have one old laptop still on XP, not powerful enough to upgrade to W7 so I expect I'll flip it over to Linux in a while. Sadly I don't think it will boot from a USB stick, so I'll have to couple up a DVD drive for the changeover.

Pity about XP getting killed off, but it can't be helped.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 06:32 AM

I have long wanted to try Linux but AFAIK there is no real alternative to Outlook for handling email. I did try Microsnot mail, and I think it was Thunderbird (on an XP machine) a while back and simply could not make either do what I wanted.

I ahve heard that there is some app out there in the web tht makes 8 look and behave like XP. I'd give that a go on my laptop if I knew what it was. 8 is a PIA even to close teh computer down!

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: nickp
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 04:13 AM

Shame. I really liked (and trusted!) XP. I've been on Win7 for about a year now and I'm pretty happy with it although I do miss the option of being able to record directly from the web. I guess there must be ways around that but have yet to find them and not enough time to spend looking.

Nick

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 04:09 AM

"Most of what I do on computers now is on the Internet"
...
"a lot of people are afraid to use Linux because they're not familiar with it."

Strange, isn't it, because the internet is pretty much the same on either OS. There are many cross platform applications for internet and common office tasks too: Google Chrome/SRWare Iron/Mozilla Firefox for web browsers, Thunderbird for email, Libre Office for office stuff. If you're using any of them, who cares what the OS is behind it?

And the change from Windows to a good Linux based desktop is no harder than the change from XP to Windows 7.

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 03:59 AM

Windows XP was introduced in 2001, and was replaced by Windows Vista in 2007. I have been known to say that Windows XP plus Office 2003 did everything I could ever want to do with a computer, but is that true? XP gave me fits with PDF files, and also had a nasty habit of "hanging" when it shut down.

Most of what I do on computers now is on the Internet, and I'm not sure how well and how safely Windows XP works with the Internet nowadays. Yes, I can get it to work fairly well with a Google Chrome browser, but other browsers bog down. And antivirus software also seems to slow down XP computers.

I do volunteer work at a women's center in Sacramento, and I've rebuilt many XP computers and given them to our guests. I've stopped taking donations of XP computers, and I'm about ready to do the same for Windows Vista computers. It's just too much work to restore them to "like new" condition, and they're still sluggish. I use Ubuntu Linux to add a little time to old XP computers, but a lot of people are afraid to use Linux because they're not familiar with it. So far, I have not been able to give away any Ubuntu computers, but I HAVE been able to force staff members to use it (or do without a computer). I donate all the computers our staff uses, so I have a fair amount of control. I'm very popular now, because nobody has a computer with an operating system older than Windows 7. Our interns are using a Win Vista computer, but that computer will retire next week. I do quite well with $350 computers.

So, I'm afraid XP has reached the end of the road. Will Windows 7 follow the XP pattern and continue popularity through the lifetime of the less-popular Windows 8?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 03:55 AM

Over the last 12 years at work I've upgraded all the office machines from Win98 to XP and then to Windows 7. Both times needed massive hardware upgrades, but that was a good thing because it meant that old hard drives were replaced before they broke, and despite each version of Windows being more of a resource hog than its predecessor, the upgrade increased overall performance.

XP has already had its life extended - when Linux based netbooks like the Asus eeePC came out a couple of years ago Microsoft saw an opportunity for a stripped down XP in a machine that would never run Vista or W7, and kept it going.

Windows 7 running here on a two-core AMD CPU, 8GB of RAM and Solid State Drive. The SSD makes a huge difference in boot and application load times, and Windows 7 is very stable.

Just avoid Windows ME, Vista and Windows 8 and you'll be fine.

I do have a PC at home that dual-boots XP and Linux, and I'll certainly keep that on XP for at least a year.

When support ceases, XP will first become an increasing security risk because of the lack of updates, but eventually it will start becoming becoming safer again: as its numbers decline, it will become a less attractive target for malware.

Subject: Tech: Watch WinXP Die?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 03:12 AM

Several reports marked yesterday (09 April) as the first day of the last year for Windows XP.

One such:

Windows XP death watch begins

> Marshall Honorof , TechNewsDaily
> 09 April 2013

> If you, or your workplace, are still using Windows XP, it's time to move on.

> Microsoft will officially end support for the 2001-vintage platform on April 8 of next year, 2014.

> That means no more service packs, no more updates and, most importantly, no more security patches.

> ...

Those hoping to squeeze a few more years of use out of the OS may want to mark a calendar on this "new year" for WinXP, although history for others that have "died" suggest that the appropriate date for releasing the final obituaries may be a little less clear than just an X on the wall.

This report, and other recent ones, indicate that WinXP is still in use on "about a third" of all Windows computers. Recollection is that the percentage for WinXP is a litttle below the record when the last gasp of Win98SE was claimed, but that was because "98" was very widely used in countries where export/import restrictions ("ex/im rules") made it difficult for large numbers of users to obtain and install legal copies of newer systems, so several stages of "reduced support" continued to be announced well after that OS was "officially dead."

So far as has been reported, there's no similar incentive for stretching out the death throes for WinXP.

Nothing really prevents anyone from continuing to use WinXP after the end of support, although a decline in security is likely once patches/updates cease.

The most likely case for marching onward with WinXP is that all later versions generally require significantly "better machines" to run successfully, with Vista and Win8 being reported as the "worst yet resource hogs." Win7 works better on newer machines, but is "slightly less demanding." Many people still running WinXP as their primary OS likely will want new machines to run anything newer when they decide to move on. On the plus side, there are lots of "better" machines capable of running the newer OS versions that are significantly cheaper than what your WinXP probably cost you when it was new(?).

A complicating factor in deciding when to switch is that WinXP existed (exists?) in at least five versions, with the basic XP-Home considered by most reviewers to be "truly mediocre" but with XP-Pro and XP-Multimedia still rated very close to newer ones for usability and support (maybe because Microsoft support has been largely undetectable - IMO - for some of the newer ones???). The "still in use" numbers don't report which versions are still going.

Now you know the "official date" - guaranteed good until the next announcement - - - maybe.

John