Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Newcastle Folk Degree

GUEST,davemc 14 Apr 13 - 07:30 AM
Matthew Edwards 14 Apr 13 - 08:12 AM
John Routledge 14 Apr 13 - 10:09 AM
GUEST,Peter 14 Apr 13 - 11:34 AM
Leadfingers 14 Apr 13 - 02:35 PM
SteveMansfield 15 Apr 13 - 01:54 AM
Pete Jennings 15 Apr 13 - 05:27 AM
MGM·Lion 15 Apr 13 - 05:34 AM
GUEST,FloraG 15 Apr 13 - 07:56 AM
Mo the caller 15 Apr 13 - 08:35 AM
John Routledge 15 Apr 13 - 08:38 AM
Richard Bridge 15 Apr 13 - 10:08 AM
MGM·Lion 15 Apr 13 - 11:42 AM
Richard Bridge 15 Apr 13 - 12:18 PM
MGM·Lion 15 Apr 13 - 01:20 PM
banjoman 16 Apr 13 - 05:19 AM
GUEST,FloraG 16 Apr 13 - 09:12 AM
Vic Smith 16 Apr 13 - 09:33 AM
GUEST 16 Apr 13 - 12:00 PM
breezy 16 Apr 13 - 06:45 PM
SteveMansfield 17 Apr 13 - 01:46 AM
GUEST,Allan Conn 17 Apr 13 - 02:49 AM
selby 17 Apr 13 - 03:06 AM
Will Fly 17 Apr 13 - 04:19 AM
MGM·Lion 17 Apr 13 - 04:23 AM
The Sandman 17 Apr 13 - 04:42 AM
greg stephens 17 Apr 13 - 05:03 AM
Tattie Bogle 17 Apr 13 - 05:44 AM
GUEST,FloraG 17 Apr 13 - 06:50 AM
Tootler 17 Apr 13 - 07:42 AM
Allan Conn 17 Apr 13 - 09:34 AM
Allan Conn 17 Apr 13 - 09:48 AM
Will Fly 17 Apr 13 - 10:14 AM
Allan Conn 17 Apr 13 - 10:20 AM
Will Fly 17 Apr 13 - 01:34 PM
GUEST 17 Apr 13 - 01:38 PM
GUEST,Spleen Cringe 17 Apr 13 - 05:49 PM
Les in Chorlton 18 Apr 13 - 09:03 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 18 Apr 13 - 09:29 AM
Marje 18 Apr 13 - 01:46 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: GUEST,davemc
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 07:30 AM

Don't seem to hear quite as much, these days, about new folk artists from the Newcastle degree. Has it lost some of its traction? Is the sausage factory producing fewer readymade sausages? The first couple of intakes seemed to launch loads of new performers onto record and festival stages but less so, now. Perhaps this is a good thing (learning craft in the real world, etc.)?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 08:12 AM

Sausage factory? Well I can only comment, in the immortal words of Sam Sherry that, in that case, "I want to be a sausage"!

Actually I've been very impressed by the quality of some of the more recent graduates and students that I've come across such as Matt Quinn, Amy Leach, and The Teacups. With tutors such as Sandra Kerr and Kathryn Tickell I think the students get a very good grounding in "the real world". I suspect however that one of the first things they tell new students is to avoid Mudcat! :-)

Matthew


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: John Routledge
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 10:09 AM

Agreed Matthew. Mudcat is better suited to old bruisers than younger more passionate singers/musicians. This is not to say that there are no older passionate singers/musicians around but fewer and fewer seem to visit Mudcat.:0)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 11:34 AM

I suspect that being a Newcastle graduate is no longer a particular selling point for a young performer as there are quite a number of them around now.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 02:35 PM

And . of course , there ARE other Universities doing Folkie degree courses , though not in the same depth as Newcastle . Uiscydwr (Sp) for example came out of Manchester .


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 01:54 AM

There are a few musicians around now who have taken the Newcastle course but don't make a big thing about it. The initial novelty of the very existence of the course has worn off, and it's less of a USP than it used to be especially, as Leadfingers points out, since other courses have come onstream.

There are no doubt also some who are wary of the sort of knee-jerk reaction to the graduates of the course that our guest OP displays. If I hear a new performer I like I check out more of their music, not whether they did the Degree course or not ...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 05:27 AM

Chris Newman, who sometimes looks in here, is (or was) one of the tutors. Let's hope he spots this one and contributes...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 05:34 AM

Surely a degree is not intended just to produce performers ~~ tho it need not of course be any inhibition either; but to satisfy the needs of people with an academic interest in the subject to bring them to the utmost point of expertise in it. Not every degree needs to be a career qualification or enhancement, but can be followed for pure love of a subject with which one wishes to become as intimately acquainted as may be.

Does that perhaps make it sound a bit like a sex act? ~~ well, there are those who can get a similar sort of buzz from academic achievement!

~M~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 07:56 AM

My concern with the degree is are they producing too many graduates for the paid jobs available? ( a bit like too many actors). Are they condemming them to a modestly paid future.
Do the graduates expect to have a varied career? Playing in folk clubs, pubs, barn dances for their bread and butter, and the occasional festival with CD sales, and a bit of teaching? Or do they just expect to be mega stars and paid accordingly and only do festivals? It would be interseting to know what many of the graduates are now doing - and how well they are doing.
FloraG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Mo the caller
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 08:35 AM

They say

"Graduates who want to use their music degree in their work often progress to become self-employed musicians, performers, composers, teachers, academics, music therapists, studio managers or sound engineers.

Other opportunities include specialist magazine journalism, music librarianship or music publishing.

Many musicians enter careers that seek graduates of any discipline but offer the opportunity to use the specific skills developed in their studies. Possible occupations include arts administrator, community arts worker, museum curator or film/video production"

We always enjoy hearing the concert that the Degree course puts on at Whitby festival (students, past students and tutors).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: John Routledge
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 08:38 AM

Nice summary Mo. Now no need for my ramblings :0)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 10:08 AM

I wonder how many classics graduates or philosophy graduates use their degree studies vocationally in their day to day work.

IMHO to suggest that they should confuses vocational training with education and learning. A mistake, I may add, that the present UK government also makes.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 11:42 AM

Indeed, Richard. Just the point I was trying to make in my post 5 back.

~M~

You do realise, don't you, that we cannot go on agreeing like this!...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 12:18 PM

Dangerous, all this agreement, I agree (er...).

I was however really responding to FloraG who was in fact until retirement a teacher and was "tasked" (I hope we also agree how hateful that word is) with teaching music, as well as a number of other subjects, to school pupils.

Perhaps, accordingly, our agreement can be overlooked.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 01:20 PM

Agreed


Oh bum!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: banjoman
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 05:19 AM

wether or not a performer has a degree means nothing -its about the quality of performance that matters, and if some of that is learned during a degree course all well and good. The majority of quality performers learn their trade through performance.
I recall going to a concert at which a well known graduate of the Newcastle course started by complaining that the temperature in the venue was too cold and later complained he could smell tobacco fumes being blown in from outside which did not do any good for his instruments. Spoilt the concert as he seemed to play very much on his degree. A very mediocre performance


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 09:12 AM

I think the folk degree is more like RADA or a medical degree than a degreee in history or philosophy. I know there is theory - but it is, I believe, primarily a degree for performers. I think the participants would expect to use their degree in some practical way with performance at the core.
There are quite a lot of music and drama teachers who are teaching as a poor second best - having failed at what they really wanted to do. I should still be interested to find out what the graduates are actually doing. I know of one who went to work for Hobgoblin.
FloraG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Vic Smith
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 09:33 AM

I know of one who went to work for Hobgoblin.

I know of three that work for that firm.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 12:00 PM

I was once accosted by a graduate of said course who said to me, outraged,"How come x gets gigs with a poor third and I've got a first and can't get booked anywhere?" Now this, I hasten to add, left me both reeling and, paradoxically, unsurprised. I suspect, based on this conversation that many attend the Newcastle course as a means of becoming a 'folk performer' as if merely having been there and graduated somehow guarantees their place in folk stardom.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: breezy
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 06:45 PM

Is the course a continual assessment based on practical application of performing skills ?


does 'being entertaining ' taken into consideration?

Sandra Kerr bumbed a thumb pick off me, and was pleasantly delighted !


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 01:46 AM

GUEST's story is a classic bit of the worst of Mudcattery - no performer name, no provenance or context, and not even willing to post under thier own name.

The intention of such a post is merely to throw mud in as wide an arc as possible through a prejudice against the Newcastle degree based on, well who knows what. Nicely done!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 02:49 AM

"primarily a degree for performers" I know a couple of people who have been on it and one who is about to go plus one artist involved in tuition though I've never delved into what exactly the course consists of. I suspect it is something similar to the various popular/commercial music degrees. My son has just had a acceptance from West Of Scotland and is still waiting from Highlands And Islands. The degrees have various modules and routes you can take. Everyone going is of course a performer of a certain standard but you choose to veer towards your performing, composition, production, studio engineering, the business side, teaching, or the community music side. Noting wrong with hoping but I don't believe all will think that they are going to be stars but I suspect they all do want to work in the music business. Some may end up stacking shelves but I know a law graduate who is working in a shop as there were no placements. On the other hand there are some firms (eg the wine retailer Majestic) who will only employ graduates! If you're going to have to get a degree to work behind the counter in a bloody wine shop why not get one in a subject you love - and one which throws up opportunities to do what you love even if it doesn't work out?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: selby
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 03:06 AM

I know quite a few graduated from the early folk degrees,most are working as Peri Teachers around the Newcastle area which allows them are work in bands or solo. Some have been very successful. The folk degree, in the future in my opinion, will make a huge impact particularly in the north east due to the graduates influence.
I saw a graduate last year perform at a festival who I know quite well and their act was to say the least dire, in conversation with them after the gig they had changed what they had learnt on the degree, on the advice of another, they said that they where going back to what they had learnt on the Folk Degree.
Keith


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 04:19 AM

If you're going to have to get a degree to work behind the counter in a bloody wine shop why not get one in a subject you love - and one which throws up opportunities to do what you love even if it doesn't work out?

Slight thread digression here, but one which puts Allan's wry comment in a different light. Majestic wine merchants, alongside other wine merchant retail outlets, employ mainly graduates in the wine trade, i.e. those who have done, are engaged in, a degree course in Wine Studies. For those who might have a cynical view of such a degree, I can tell you with complete certainty that it can be very technical, very business and/or science-based, and very complex.

The reason that "bloody wine shops" and large retail warehouses (like Majestic) prefer to employ someone with qualifications in the trade is that the wine-buying public is often very knowledgeable, and more often very ignorant. They need to be helped to make a good purchase in a multi-million retail industry. Assistants and store managers need to be able to describe and recommend wines in such a way that the customer can understand, and often need to suggest a range of purchases from a single bottle to large consignments for restaurants and private parties. France has been doing this for donkeys years.

Apply the same principle to music. How much better for the customer in a "bloody music shop" to be helped by a knowledgeable and experienced musician...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 04:23 AM

"Everyone going is of course a performer of a certain standard"
..,,.
Why 'of course', Allan? Suppose someone who simply loved listening to folk music and song, but had no ambition to perform, applied to the course simply to increase his knowledge and appreciation of his favourite listening ~~ would he be automatically rejected?

Not everyone applying to read English has to be a practising poet, after all.

~M~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 04:42 AM

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Vic Smith - PM
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 09:33 AM

I know of one who went to work for Hobgoblin.

I know of three that work for that firm."
   good to see that hobgoblin are employing folk enthusiasts.
out of curiosity does the newcastle folk degree incorporate instrument repairs in its course, this would be of use, if, as it seems, degree holders go on to work in music shops


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 05:03 AM

I know very little of the course at Newcastle, but the implications of a lot of posters on this thread are that it is a course for performers aiming at paid work on the folk scene or whatever. Is that actually the case, or is it possible to go on the course to study folk music in an academic sort of way? Or, if not, are there any other university courses where you can do that? I mean, most universities provide an English Literature course of some kind, but they don't train the graduates to write novels; they run Creative Writing courses for that.
Also, to those not in the know, people are being very mealy-mouthed discussing all these graduates in a rather theoretical anonymous sort of way. let's have a list of names, I would be interested to try to spot some sort of house style as performers.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 05:44 AM

There are also a lot of graduates coming out of the Glasgow Conservatoire (formerly RSAMD) trad music degree course, many of whom are doing well as gigging musicians but who mainly have day jobs as well, whether employed or self-employed. The latter is true of many gigging musicians who have never been to university, of course!

Then there are 1000s of graduates of other music degree courses, classical, jazz, composition, also out there trying to make a living, which will hopefully involve their musical skills: it's not just a trad music thing. My son has 2 music degrees in composition and music production: he has had a couple of bands going in his spare time, but never expected to be another John Williams. after the degrees, he survived on several part-time jobs, anything from teaching swimming to guitar. A few years further on, he has now nearly completed his probationary year as a primary school teacher, where, no doubt, music will be useful.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 06:50 AM

I think that the course is very innovative for England. I fear that most of my knowledge is anecdotal and I would be interested to Know what the situation really is for these graduates - has the training met expectations? How many are making a living at it ( I know of one who is songman in warhorse( as opposed to actually knowing the one who worked for Hobgoblin)))? How many are on the folk club circuit?
How easy is it for them to teach privately ( especially if their main instument is not mainstream )? How easy is it for them to get on post grad studies like teaching?
How many have had to ignore their degree and do something totally different?
Surely some of them must know about mudcat and be willing to post?
FloraG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Tootler
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 07:42 AM

I have known several people from the folk degree. As I understand it from talking to them, performing is just one route you can take and to follow that route, you have achieve a 2.1 level in that aspect of the course at the end of the second year. I'm not sure what the other pathways are but I believe there is also a business oriented pathway. I think those on the performance path have to do a business module. I would be very surprised if there was not a research oriented pathway.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Allan Conn
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 09:34 AM

"Not everyone applying to read English has to be a practising poet, after all."

But everyone applying to read English will be expected to have qualifiactions in English at school level so why should music be any different. That is for a course which in its own words "has a strong emphasis on performance" they must be up to a certain standard. I don't know what that would be but for instance the likes of Napier's Popular Music degree asks for (from memory) a minumum of 3 Highers at B including music; and for the candidate to be at the equivilent of grade 8 in the preferred instrument and up to grade 5 in music theory. The candidates at Napier have to initially send in youtube clips or video on DVD of them performing plus go through a live audition as well as interview. The other Scottish Universities were similar. Far bigger task than most of the degree courses where the candidates are simply chosen from their school results and personal statements on the UCAS application.

You seem to be suggesting that there should be a degree for people who simply want to study folk music. I can understand that, or there may already be one! I don't know. But that isn't what the Newcastle course is. It is a performer's course hence they need to be to a standard.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Allan Conn
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 09:48 AM

"employ mainly graduates in the wine trade, i.e. those who have done, are engaged in, a degree course in Wine Studies."

Well our wine club has had three presenters from the Edinburgh and Berwick branches and none of them took degrees in wine studies. The only trianing they'd had on that was in-house. Seemed to be any degree would do as long as you had a degree. My wry comment was made because let's face it if you'd spent years studying to take up law or be an architect etc then you may be glad of a job behind a counter selling wine but would it really be what you wanted? That was in realtion to someone pointing out that music graduates sometimes end up doing non-musical things. It is no difference really. It also shows how hard it is getting for youngsters without degrees. I mean yes people facing the public should be knowledgeable but does 'everyone' in that position within a shop need a degree to for that to be so? I don't think so. In fatc the reason that the Majestic people brought that up during the presentations was because it is quite unusual.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 10:14 AM

Point taken, Allan. My guess is that wine-trained graduates are probably more visible on the ground down here in Sussex, where wine is produced and where the local university offers such a degree. Some of these graduates will go into retailing, some will go into buying, some into importation and others into actual growing and production.

And, of course, some will end up doing none of these things...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Allan Conn
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 10:20 AM

Interestingly enough Will we had some English wines last night at the wine club. It was a blind tasting and three of the wines were from the Rose Bank vineyard nr Worcester. The general concensus was they were inferior to the wines from your neck of the wood.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 01:34 PM

Interesting, Allan - the Sussex white (and sparkling) wines are getting a great reputation at the moment, and have won several international medals. I'm only a partial fan. My son - who's doing a wine degree at the moment - gets me excellent wines at 20% discount. He works for a local wine merchant in his spare time from uni. :-)

I used to shun French wines, but the last few years have seen a huge resurgence in French stuff. England will never, IMO, produce reds to match Europe or the New World vintages.

How's that for a nice bit of thread drift, eh?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 01:38 PM

Read all about it -
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/undergraduate/degrees/w340/courseoverview/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 05:49 PM

Hopefully the folk degree will inspire an equal and opposite reaction, too. Sort of a folk equivalent of this...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 09:03 AM

If you think education is limiting - try ignorance


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 09:29 AM

Ed Pickford wrote a song about the folk degree students some years ago- title was 'Farti Glitterati'- am sure he'd send you it if it appeals


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Newcastle Folk Degree
From: Marje
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 01:46 PM

It may be that some of the folk degree graduates who hoped to make a living as performers will find they can't do so, but this doesn't meant their degree is wasted. A chance to spend several years studying the music you love is time well spent.

For most of the graduates, their understanding and knowledge of the music will enrich the rest of their lives, as well as the lives of others who come into contact with them.

Even those who don't work full-time as musicians may well, as others have pointed out above, find themselves jobs in which their musical skills and knowledge are valuable assets. And all of them are well placed to become ambassadors for a genre of music that deserves to be better understood and more widely appreciated and respected.

Marje


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 22 July 2:44 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.