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Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood |
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Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: John of the Hill Date: 12 Nov 99 - 08:42 PM Fortunato, What's really scary is buying a cittern. I'm taking a leap of faith and ordering one, the problem is you can't get your hands on a variety of them to compare. At the same time this discussion is going on, there has been one on the cittern list entitled Spruce or Cedar. My head is really spinning, and while there may be people on that list as knowledgeable, there are none as idiosnycratically eloquent as our Spaw. John |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: BK Date: 12 Nov 99 - 10:42 PM Idiosyncraticaally elequent... I love it! Right on! Cheers, BK ps: If I were going to buy a serious-sized Taylor (which I hope to do one of these days) I WOULDN'T buy a dreadnaught (ends in "10"); I'd buy the size roughly equivalent to a Martin OOO - a "grand auditorium." (ends in "14"). They're really just abt as big, but shaplier & sound great. of course, I've had a lot of Dreadnaught size/shape guitars.. I really want the "grand concert" (eds in "12")size; something like a OO Martin. I got GAS (Guitar Aquisition Syndrome) - terrible case of it... Got a suspicion I'm not the onlyone, I bet there's an epidemic on the Mudcat.. |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: catspaw49 Date: 12 Nov 99 - 11:00 PM Gee, I hadn't been back to catch John's phrase. Of course I had no idea what it meant and I was ready to go kick his ass til I looked it up. GAS???? This place is the refinery!!!!! Spaw |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: Bill D Date: 12 Nov 99 - 11:53 PM Fortunato...if you are in the Wash DC area...mt wife,,,Ferrara, to those here, has a Gurian guitar for sale ...Jumbo Mahogany, I think it is called...neck is slightly narrower than some, Im told.... |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: Michael K. Date: 13 Nov 99 - 12:22 AM Okay I've read all the newer posts in here once again, and I particulary appreciate 'Spaws analysis of all the variables that go into creating the final sound. Having said this, and, assuming all things being equal (nut and saddle material, bridge, fretboard, etc.etc If we took 2 identical Collings D3s, OMs, or Martin D-28s, with one being of Brazilian and the other Indian....)......Is there any fundamental difference in the sound? And for what it's worth 'Spaw, I agree with you 100% about Collings. I have one,(an OM3H) and in addition to all its perfection in construction and sound, etc. ... it has the finest, easiest playing neck I have ever encountered on ANY acoustic guitar, bar none. It was the neck alone, that sold me on this instrument. (You can mug me for starting this thread :-) ..but be gentle. ) |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: Terry Allan Hall Date: 13 Nov 99 - 08:59 AM Tonally, I like 'em both equally, but a lot of times the BRW is prettier VISUALLY. Lately, I've been getting into good maple guitars (Gibson J-200 and Taylor 655) gfor stage axes, though...better feed-back resistance. |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: catspaw49 Date: 13 Nov 99 - 12:08 PM Well Michael, I personally think that BRW will give you a sound that I heard Dan Bourgeois describe once as "lush." And I think that's true. My guess would be that you'd find the IRW a bit less so and probably more similar to BRW in the mid-range, but less "clear" in the treble and bass. I have found that when using Spruce soundboards on Hammered Dulcimers that BRW sounds better when used for rails, than either IRW, Morado, or maple(which is what I generally use). And that kinda' relates to the comment above. Maples are kind of acoustically neutral and the sound reflects through it much better than other woods, so when used as rails on HD's the "tone" of the soundboard is more important. On a guitar, maple backs and sides tend to let the soundboard do the work, which would help explain the better results with pick-ups. Want the truth? I kinda' like the sound of mahogany best in most blind tests. I played two Larrivees at Roscoe awhile back and I picked the mahogany......but I love that look of rosewood. I've always preferred a D-18 to a D-28 too.......but don't tell anybody. Spaw |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: Michael K. Date: 13 Nov 99 - 01:06 PM Thanks 'Spaw. That's more along the lines of the answer I was looking for, regarding tone. I figured there had to be a different and I too, notice it. |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: catspaw49 Date: 13 Nov 99 - 01:26 PM LMAO....I was never trying to beat around the bush Michael, although that is a favorite pastime...........I just tend to believe that the BRW/IRW question is so close that its barely significant. The differences between the Spruces is more noticeable by far. And BTW, Dana Bourgeois, who I really do consider to be one of the best luthiers anywhere, has had better success with Morado for backs and sides than he has with IRW, much closer in all ways to BRW. The greatest difference is between the rosewoods/morado and mahogany or maple obviously. Most builders agree that rosewood tends to be better balanced, but mahogany has much clearer trebles and basses which makes the instrument stand out when played with other instruments like banjo, mandolin, etc.......which is why the D-18 is so popular in Bluegrass. Glad you started this thread man........I thought we'd blown most of the instrument topics, but this led us in a few other ways. Spaw |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: catspaw49 Date: 13 Nov 99 - 01:41 PM ....'course the D-28's real popular too, so screw it! Spaw |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: Michael K. Date: 13 Nov 99 - 03:29 PM To 'Spaw: Thanks for the above. It has been a subject I've agonized over for a long time since there is just so much hype around the BRW thingy.....and after a while you start asking yourself (especially if contemplating ordering a new custom instrument as I did a while back) ''geez do I really want to pay Martin (or whoever) a 4 -5 thousand dollar premium for a few small thin slabs of BRW or can I live with IRW? and save a lot of money?" So I would think that anyone (obviously fairly well-heeled) contemplating a purchase of either a new custom Rosewood instrument or searching for older vintage guitars would want such a distinction made, in order to make as informed a choice as possible regarding the differences and benefits (if any) no matter how subtle. Otherwise you're basically throwing out hard earned money for a "look" rather than a real fundamental difference in tone. Interesting about your comments about mahogany for cutting power and bluegrass....and I do agree with you. I honestly thing my old (straight braced) D-28 sounds more like a great D-18 than a 28. Because of the straight bracing, it doesn't boom or really resonate in the bass end (although the bass is there - just not to the degree that one is used to hearing it if they were using an HD-28 or one that employs scalloped braces.) But the mids and highs on it are astounding and just leap out at you. Is this sound typical of older BRW straight braced Martins?.....assuming those Martins are "good ones"? |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: Rick Fielding Date: 13 Nov 99 - 04:10 PM Catspaw, I wanna know about those Martin 0000s that you were talkin' about earlier. Are they the ones with Brazilian Possum backs? Rick (who wonders why nobody ever talks about the sound properties of Balsa) |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: John of the Hill Date: 13 Nov 99 - 05:44 PM Rick, Are balsa what castrati are relieved of? John |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: emily b Date: 15 Nov 99 - 05:34 PM Thanks, Bill D and catspaw for all the info about the latin names and morado vs. rosewood. We got onto to internet on Sat. and had a great time surfing around the various sites, reading about further. It's amazing the conflicting information about the different kinds of wood. It's no wonder the dealers just call everything "rosewood." Thanks again, emily b |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: Bill D Date: 15 Nov 99 - 11:35 PM you are quite welcome, emily..*smile*..it is a pleasure to help someone who really wants to know...there ARE projects to clear up things, set 'standards' for names, etc...but like folk music definitions, you can't require anyone to pay attention. They will only be adhered to by those who care... |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: catspaw49 Date: 15 Nov 99 - 11:57 PM I thought this thing had gone, but I must have been off and about...I notice a couple of posts that I'll come back to...but for now......... Thanks emily and like Bill, may I say you're most welcome. Now UNLIKE Bill, I'll just keep telling folks that those end frames are BO-livian ROSEwood and they'll like it...cause it is pretty. And Morado sounds like a new imported motorcycle. Spaw |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: Fortunato Date: 16 Nov 99 - 11:24 AM Help. I haven't played a Collings or a Bourgeois does anyone know where in DC I could find some? Thanks Bill D, but Gurion is not what I'm looking for right now.
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Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: Bill D Date: 16 Nov 99 - 12:52 PM tsk!! catspaw!!...how can you sleep at night!..those end-frames would be just as pretty if you called 'em Maecherium scheroxylon *grin* ...and think of the respect you'd get for being so knowlegeable! (I also grump at sales where they price something at $999.99 and act as though I won't KNOW I'm spending a thousand bucks!) |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: matt Date: 16 Nov 99 - 10:28 PM Fortunato- Call 410-744-1144. This is a Collings dealer in Baltimore. And while yer at it, try the Taylor 514 in Koa and Cedar. |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: Bert Date: 17 Nov 99 - 04:53 PM Bill D, You should have been in England before they changed the currency. A product would be priced "19 Pounds, 19 Shillings and elevenpence three farthings" Ah! the good old days. |
Subject: RE: Brazilian vs. Indian Rosewood From: Colonel KC Date: 20 Nov 99 - 04:17 PM I tend to agree that from my experiences, Brazilian is a brighter sound and Indian is a bit warmer. I have a German 12string of BRW but its a 000 size; and a Gurian of IRW with a three piece back. So it could be other factors as well. Besides it doesn't make one better than the other - just different. The main thing is to find a guitar thatyou like the sound of, whether it be Brazilian Rosewood or New Jersey Ply (just kidding). |
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