BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in West, Texas

Subject: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: mg
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 12:43 AM

News starting to come in ..it was a huge explosion and I believe many deaths and injuries.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: ragdall
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 12:47 AM

It's terrible in any case, but I hope that it was an accident. It seems strange that it happened twenty years later, almost to the day, of the horrible event in Waco, April 19, 1993.

My thoughts are with the injured and the families involved.

rags

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 01:18 AM

I saw this on the news a few hours ago in passing through the den. Surely a lot of tragedy and near tragedy clumping up the last few days. Accidental explosions in fertilizer plants, flour mills and such used to occur fairly frequently. Let's hope that this is an instance where "a cigar really is a cigar." And let us say a prayer for the victims and their survivors.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: gnu
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 05:07 AM

2.1 Richter event recorded by US Geological. Windows blown out up to 6km away. (I thoughty she said 16km but that is a looooong way out.)

Initially, it seems odd to me there was no evacuation order. It was a fertilizer plant fire. Musta been reasons???

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: maeve
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 06:04 AM

"(CNN) -- A massive explosion at a fertilizer plant in the small Texas town of West left at least two people dead, sent dozens more seeking medical attention and prompted a widescale evacuation in the community of 2,600 people...Residents are being evacuated because officials are worried that another tank at the facility might explode...Shortly after the explosion, more than 60 patients streamed into Hillcrest Hospital in Waco, suffering from "blast injuries, orthopedic injuries (and) a lot of lacerations," said hospital CEO Glenn Robinson..." http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/17/us/texas-explosion/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 06:10 AM

The typical sequence in such accidents is that there's the explosion, for which there's no warning, and then everything burns. It's almost never possible to evacuate until everything blown sky high comes back down.

It's been a couple of hours since I checked the reports, but as of a little while ago the local news reports haven't identified even what kinds of fertilizer(s) the plant was making, which of course leaves us not knowing what raw materials were there to feed the fire afterward. Photos show a rather monstrous cloud of smoke, and a couple of aparently earlier ones show a really large flame plume.

Hospitals in the vicinity were all reporting "many" casualties, but as of a while ago not all the reports agree with each other, by large margins.

First reports indicated that many of the injuries were in nearby neighborhoods (out to a mile - 1.6 km? - radius?) flattened by the blast.

I had to look beyond the news reports to find that the "town" (local news reports disagree about what it's called) has a rather small population, but still no info on how many actually worked at the plant and might have been at "ground zero;" but the blast apparently was big enough that it wouldn't matter much.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 06:17 AM

our news services are posting a video taken by a man in a car - when the blast hits his car & the pic goes shaky, his young daughter screams at him to get out of the car. I assume they were not badly hurt but we have no further info.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 06:25 AM

it seems like not much news has come out. a nursing home was evacuated. there were original reports of 60 deaths, but now they are saying 5 to 15...fortunately it was after work hours, but it was right in the middle of a residential area apparently and flattened houses. i think we are pretty much still shocked over boston and it all seems too much..

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 06:38 AM

We are getting it on BBC this morning and they are saying a tank of ammonia went up.

Apparently there was a fire and firemen were on the scene when the tank exploded. They are telling us that firemen (unspecified number) are missing.

Over a hundred casualties treated at the local hospital. They say fourteen admitted.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 08:40 AM

Accidental explosions in fertilizer plants, flour mills and such used to occur fairly frequently...

Until OSHA & other Federal regulations & inspectors came along. Now that the TeaPublicans have cut all that back & made businesses "self-policing"[sic], expect more of the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 08:54 AM

As pointed out earlier this took place in a city called West. It's not in west Texas. Confused? It's about 30 miles north of Waco and south of Ft Worth and Dallas. We used to stop there on the way back from Austin to pick up German pastries. We always meant to attend the polka festival there but never got around to it.

City of West, Texas

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 09:31 AM

You can see the plant clearly on Google Earth (1471 Jerry Mashek Dr, West, TX 76691). The aerial view shows what looks like a number of storage tanks. The middle school and the assisted living home are pretty close to it. It must have been the most horrendous experience for those hit by the blast.

There's a passing comment in one of the news websites that the company concerned had a complaint files against it in 2006 for "a lingering smell of ammonia".

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 09:42 AM

Terrible situation.   I've been following since last night. Fire leads to explosion and Bob's your uncle.   No real idea of deaths or injuries at this point, just guess work.

Greg's right on this one. Thank you Baggers.

And it is too bad these tanks weren't Billie Sol Estes' tanks. They would neither burn nor explode........


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: sciencegeek
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 10:07 AM

Watching the briefing from Sgt. William Swanton, I am very impressed with his clarity & professionalism. And found myself wishing that our politicians rose up to that standard.

It will be interesting to see how the secessionists and those who obstructed federal aide to NY & NJ victims of Sandy will behave now that they are on the receiving end.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 12:29 PM

I didn't get a name, but one politician was "explaining" that "EPA inspections had calculated no possible chance" of an accident, but "they only predict how safe it is when everything is working right, and something probably didn't."

The Idiotcrat party is still in charge in Texa$$.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 12:45 PM

What is unsettling to me is that homes were destroyed, and a nursing home and a school were damaged.

Anhydrous ammonia is always dangerous; it is used at several plants across the country.

The fertilizer plant should not have been close to homes, but, having lived in Texas at one time, wilful stupidity there is familiar to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 12:45 PM

If everything is working alright there is no possible chance of an accident.   

I think a public announcement in those terms would be likely to cause panic in virtually any circumstances. Imagine hearing that from the captain on an airliner.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 03:32 PM

The fear in the girl's voice on that video that Sandra in Sydney linked to is heartbreakingly spine curdling. She kept repeating "Let's get out of here. Please let's get out of here. I can't hear. I can't hear."

I do hope they are both all right.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 04:10 PM

The thing that really made the politician look "Texan" is that he not only had the wrong Federal Agency, he kept talking until he made it clear that he didn't have the least idea what either agency does for a living.

The town, West, Texas, is about 30 miles from the next nearest town (Waco?), which isn't considered a big deal for a weekly trip to the grocery store, but it's a bit much to drive to work every day if you don't know there's a good reason for living farther away. It's likely that the people chose to have the town close to the factory, rather than the other way 'round, although you'd have to know local history to tell.

The newscasters are comparing this with the explosion 66 years ago while a ship was being unloaded at the seaport a little way south, but they, in turn, don't seem to understand that the ship was full of ammonium nitrate (WWII ammo being brought in to be recycled into fertilizer). That one leveled about a 30 mile(?) radius around the seaport, and pretty much "removed" the entire town. It probably doesn't make a lot of difference to know that there was a difference in what exploded, but it does seem a little like sloppy reporting.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 06:39 PM

The Idiotcrat party is still in charge in Texa$$

Just look at the Governor........

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 10:03 PM

Hi, Wesley. I've been to West, Texas (the Czech capital of Texas) too. I'm so sorry to hear about the terrible explosion.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 12:35 AM

Ebbie, I've just looked at that video again, it's had over 9 million viewers.

I read a few pages of comments & I was amazed how many were spam & trolls. Several comments said the father & daughter were not hurt, as they weren't too close but I didn't want to read any more.

I'll stick to news sites for further information on the disaster.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 09:38 AM

A new article offers some clarifications about the "Plant" involved and what materials were there, but doesn't give much new information about how the explosion might have occured.

A fairly good (not too technical) description of the differences between ammonium nitrate that they now say possibly/likely was present in some quantity at the site and the anhydrous ammonia that was originally assumed to have been the only thing there.

The facility in West, Texas was not a manufacturing plant as some previously thought, but was primarily a distribution center where farmers could pick up fertilizers. The company itself had very few employees, although there's still no good report of how many workers were present and/or how many others nearby were hurt.

See what they say at Texas fertilizer plant also stored explosive chemical used in Oklahoma City bomb

(The headline is a little more sensationalist than necessary, but the article isn't bad.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 11:47 AM

SiS, I don't understand your followup- I was amplifying your earlier comment. I thought/think that the young girl's voice illustrated the epitome of impact.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 12:29 PM

Ebbie, I was commenting on the people who post anonymously on websites.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 02:52 PM

A report posted at MSNBC within the last half hour (60 people still missing) confirms 12 killed in the West, TX blast with an additional 60 people still unaccounted for.

They imply that most of the missing may be in rubble that will still have to be excavated to finish searching, so it may be some time before final results can be reported. It might be hoped that some of the missing were just "elsewhere" and might still turn up okay, but it's difficult to be too optimistic.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 08:31 PM

AP has said the last OSHA inspection of the plant was in 1985, but it was fined then for serious violations.

"A day after the explosion in West, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) released a new report documenting a widespread lack of workplace inspections by state OSHA programs. After surveying 22 state-run programs, it found that the agencies had problems with hiring and retaining inspectors, in part due to low pay. State budget cuts have had a big impact, leading to funding problems, and the federal agency often hasn't taken over state plans because its own budget is too tight. This has meant that a workplace only gets a visit from OSHA inspectors every 99 years on average, with some state programs even worse. In Texas, a plant can only expect an inspection every 126 years." (from ThinkProgress )

I've NEVER understood why people would consider living near a fertilizer plant, hazardous chemical storage area, grain elevator, or volcano...

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in WACO
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 08:39 PM

Because they don't know that it's hazardous? (To most of us, fertilizer consists of innocuous white granules that you buy in a two-pound box.)

Because they don't speak the language?

Because they can't afford to live anywhere else?

One fifth of American children don't get enough to EAT, never mind live somewhere nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in West, Texas
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 01:19 AM

The explosion was in the town of West, Texas. Not in Waco, not near Waco. Twenty miles north of Waco, and with a distinctive and famous reputation for some great Czech food (kolaches, in particular). Central Texas has a large Czech population (just look at all of the SPJST halls in many small towns) and West has a distinctive name in the area because of their rest stop (Czech Stop) that sells the baked goods.

Temple, Georgetown, Granger, Waco, they are to Czech immigrant descendants what Boston is to the Irish. Or Seattle to the Norwegians and Fresno to Armenians.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in West, Texas
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 09:44 AM

Yep. In our photo album is a picture of the DH standing in front of a sign in West, Texas that says "Buchty are sold warm from the oven."

That's his idea of heaven on earth.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in West, Texas
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 05:51 PM

It seems that the same representatives who oppose Federal aid elsewhere after disasters are now claiming it in Texas - despite opposing proper Health and Safety inspections that might have reduced the risk here - the same risk from US mining history - of capitalism that does not care if it kills people so long as it is profitable.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in West, Texas
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 05:52 PM

PS. A bit like Bhopal.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in West, Texas
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 08:19 PM

the same representatives who oppose Federal aid elsewhere after disasters are now claiming it in Texas

You bet, Richard! That's Texas and TeaPublican both with capital 'T's

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in West, Texas
From: Elmore
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 12:42 AM

Sorry about the carnage, but can't figure out why houses and a fertilizer plant have to be in such close proximity in the second largest state in the union.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in West, Texas
From: pdq
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 03:20 PM

I suppose Bill Maher will try to blame this on Czech-pants Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: Fertilizer plant explosion in West, Texas
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 06:47 PM

Why, PeeDee? Are they clowns and idiots like the government of Texas?