Lyr Add: The Barley and the Rye

Subject: Lyr Add: THE BARLEY AND THE RYE
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 07:06 AM

I looked for this in the DT, and couldn't find it. I may be using the wrong parameters, but just in case, here are a set of lyrics, as sung by Martin Carthy.

Roud 118 ; Child 279

The Barley and the Rye

It's of an old country farmer who lived in the West Country,
And he had the prettiest little wife that ever you did see,
And the young man came a-courting her when the old man he wasn't nigh,
And ofttimes they would take a tumble amongst the barley and the rye.

Now when the old man woke in the morning, and he found himself all alone
Well he look'd out of the window, and he spied his wife in the corn,
And the young man lay beside her, and it caused the old man to cry
He says, "Wife, wife, I wonder at you, for spoiling of my rye!"

"Oh husband," she says, "Oh husband, it's the like I've ne'er done before
But if you have got one friend, I have another one in store
He's a friend, love, that will not deceive you, if you will him employ,
He's got money enough, love, for to pay you for our barley and our rye.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Barley and Rye
From: Reinhard
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 07:30 AM

The Barley and the Rye from the singing of Peter Bellamy

Subject: Lyr Add: THE BARLEY AND THE RYE
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 07:59 AM

Harry Cox was the source if this as I remember, though I always get it with The Barley Straw, which is also from Harry and bears strong similarities.
Jim Carroll

BARLEY AND THE RYE.
From the singing of Harry Cox

It's of an old country farmer he lived in the West Country
And he had the prettiest little wife that ever I did see
And a young man went a-courting her when the old man wasn't nigh
Oft times they would tumble amongst the barley and the rye

When the old man woke in the morning he found himself alone
He looked out of the window and saw his wife in the corn
And the young man lay beside her, it caused the old man to cry
He cried, "Wife , I wonder at you for the spoiling of my rye."

She cried, "Husband "she cried, "Husband, it's like I never done before
For if you have got one friend I have another one in store
He's a friend love will not deceive you if you will him employ
He's got money enough to pay you for our barley and our rye,

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Barley and Rye
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 08:34 AM

Peter Bellamy, as I have noted on another thread before, told me he was always tempted to leave out the last verse, regarding it as being an anticlimax after a great punchline; and I think I recall his leaving it out in live club performance sometimes. But it is certainly there on his 'The Fox Jumps Over The Parson's Gate' Topic album of 1970.

~M~

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Barley and Rye
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 10:15 AM

I'm not surprised it wasn't in the DT; until recently it was unique in oral tradition to the best of my knowledge. Sam Lee has come across a traveller fragment of it in the past year, which is quite exciting. Roud 23268

It is indeed seemingly a remarkable survival as the only other version is a 17th century broadside in the Pepys Collection (Vol4 p139) The Country Cuckold, or, The Buxome Dames Frollick in a Field of Rie, with her Lusty Gallant. Printed by Brooksby, Deacon, Blare and Back in London.

Here is an excellent example of how the oral tradition pares away the unnecessary dross. The broadside labours the same joke in 10 weary stanzas.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Barley and the Rye
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 06:31 AM

"Here is an excellent example of how the oral tradition pares away the unnecessary dross."
Assuming, of course, that the broadside wasn't taken from an oral source in the first place and buggered about with for a new audience.
We recorded 2 verses of a song entitled 'The Merchant and The Fiddler's Wife', recited in a folktale from a West Clare man living in London.
The only other place I have come across it is in Durfey's 'Pills'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Barley and the Rye
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 10:51 AM

I have no doubt that the 17thc ballad was based on a folk tale as many of them are, but I'm pretty sure it was a hack in London who put it into verse. The type of humour of course is exactly that used in 'John Blunt'/'Get up and bar the Door'.

Have you got the Pills reference please, Jim?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Barley and the Rye
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 01:18 PM

You should use your trusty Roud Steve!

MERCHANT AND THE FIDLER'S WIFE, THE: D'Urfey, Wit and Mirth or Pills to Purge Melancholy (1719-1720) 5 pp.77-80

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Barley and the Rye
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 01:25 PM

No need. I could have used my own indexes but I wasn't sure the title Jim used was the one in Pills, but many thanks anyway, Mick.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Barley and the Rye
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 01:47 PM

There is a copy identical in the Pepys Collection printed by 'Coles, Vere, Wright, Clarke, Thackeray and Passinger who were printing 1679-81. It gives the author as J.P. and although his initials appear on several ballads he is one of the few who remain unidentified. The ballad continued to be printed in songsters. I have one dated 1735. The tune is given in Chappell and the text is reprinted in The Common Muse and the later Oxford Book of Ballads by Kinsley.

Do you know if the ballad was included in earlier editions of Pills?

Jim,
I'm sure we'd both be interested in seeing what you recorded.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Barley and the Rye
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 02:00 PM

Talking, a bit driftily, of Peter Bellamy's desire to omit the last verse because the punchline comes at the end of the penultimate, he would always do the same, as I mentioned on the thread about it, with Young Roger Esq, which he would always end at "Did once come a-courting my father's grey mare" - which he regarded as the song's punchline and the last verse as a terrible anti-climax. I can see how there could be two views of this desire of his to 'improve by omission', and make no comment; but simply record the fact of his having done this.

~M~

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Barley and the Rye
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 02:33 PM

Here's a link to the Pepys' version: The Merchantman and the Fidler's Wife at EBBA.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Barley and the Rye
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 03:26 AM

"You should use your trusty Roud Steve!"
Thanks for that Mick - the Roud index seems to have been down recently, but I haven't looked today.
Steve: haven't transcribed the story yet, but will transcribe the recited verses when I get the time (a little tied up with somebody on another thread)
Interestingly (to me anyway), the singer, Mikey Kelleher, who gave us 'Fiddler' also gave us a tale version of 'The Bishop of Canterbury', involving Cromwell meeting a priest, one similar to Chaucer's 'Blind man up a tree' (think it might be 'The Merchant's Tale', can never remember), and one we've entitled 'The Mouse in the Matchbox' which involves a young woman who breaks off her engagement to a man to marry somebody else, but promises to spend the first night of her marriage with him rather than her husband. MacColl identified this as similar to a tale from Fernando de Rojas' sixteenth century play 'The Spanish Bawd'.
The fishing village Mikey came from, Quilty, about 2 miles south of here and is known for "yarns"; short joke-like stories with no punchlines which he and his neighbours had (and I found out recently, still have) by the hundreds.
Mikey gave us about sixty songs, but was shy of singing at home (his wife didn't know he sang), so we had to record all of them in the car parked in quiet back streets in Deptford. When we'd finished we'd adjourn to his pub where he'd roar his 'yarns' into our ears above the noise of the drinking - we managed to record a few dozen in the car.
Sorry for the drift John Mc.
Jim Carroll;

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Barley and the Rye
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 10:30 AM

Excellent stuff, Jim. I'd love to have been involved in all that. If I remember rightly Child gives quite a few instances from various parts of Europe of 'King John and The Abbot' as folk tale. This feller on the other thread, I'd just ignore him!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Barley and the Rye
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 06:01 PM

Jim - I noticed the index was down a few days ago. Luckily I've had my own copy for 10/11 years now. I keep it as an Access db on my XP machine and as a Prolog db on my Ubuntu one. It's easier to do more complex searches than with the online version. (It's a bit old now, but that's my fault. I think I was entitled to free updates, but we moved not long after I got it and we never informed Steve Roud. I had it as a birthday present and when Rhiannon was ordering it Steve Roud was very careful to make sure she knew she was getting an index and not the words to songs!).

Mick