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The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas

GUEST,CS 23 Apr 13 - 11:38 AM
GUEST,crazy little woman 23 Apr 13 - 12:59 PM
MGM·Lion 23 Apr 13 - 01:07 PM
MGM·Lion 23 Apr 13 - 01:09 PM
GUEST,CS 23 Apr 13 - 01:49 PM
MGM·Lion 23 Apr 13 - 02:37 PM
Nigel Parsons 23 Apr 13 - 03:32 PM
MGM·Lion 23 Apr 13 - 03:41 PM
Phil Cooper 23 Apr 13 - 03:52 PM
GUEST,CS 23 Apr 13 - 04:39 PM
GUEST,CS 23 Apr 13 - 04:43 PM
MGM·Lion 23 Apr 13 - 04:46 PM
MGM·Lion 23 Apr 13 - 05:26 PM
VirginiaTam 24 Apr 13 - 09:06 AM
Jim Carroll 24 Apr 13 - 10:51 AM
GUEST,crazy little woman 24 Apr 13 - 12:36 PM
MGM·Lion 24 Apr 13 - 12:50 PM
MGM·Lion 24 Apr 13 - 01:12 PM
VirginiaTam 24 Apr 13 - 02:18 PM
richd 24 Apr 13 - 06:50 PM
GUEST,CS 25 Apr 13 - 03:15 AM
GUEST,CS 25 Apr 13 - 03:19 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Apr 13 - 04:54 AM
GUEST,SteveT 25 Apr 13 - 05:03 AM
MorwenEdhelwen1 25 Apr 13 - 05:41 AM
GUEST,CS 25 Apr 13 - 06:28 AM
GUEST,VaTam on lunch 25 Apr 13 - 07:46 AM
GUEST 25 Apr 13 - 07:55 AM
GUEST,CS 25 Apr 13 - 08:03 AM
GUEST,Blandiver 25 Apr 13 - 10:24 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Apr 13 - 04:13 AM
GUEST,CS 26 Apr 13 - 07:55 AM
Edthefolkie 26 Apr 13 - 11:41 AM
GUEST,Blandiver 27 Apr 13 - 10:54 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Apr 13 - 03:50 AM
GUEST,SteveT 28 Apr 13 - 06:08 AM
GUEST,Blandiver 28 Apr 13 - 06:11 AM
MorwenEdhelwen1 28 Apr 13 - 06:47 AM
MorwenEdhelwen1 28 Apr 13 - 06:53 AM
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Subject: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 11:38 AM

I'm writing a story concerning human interactions with the fey / fairies, loosely borrowing themes from Christina Rossetti's Goblin Market.

I'd like to do some further reading of folklore about the fey, as well as ideas from song and classic fiction including poetry, plays, ballads and so-on.

I know that's a wide brief, but if you were to suggest for example a dozen great sources for reading and drawing on, please suggest away. Images are also welcome!


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 12:59 PM

The thing about fairy tales is that there isn't an early, definitive, respected work which organizes the subject. For example, the Bible organizes Christian belief, but there is no Bible for fairy tales. Instead, there were a lot of loose, varying, short and not-very-interesting superstitions. Then literate authors came along, especially in the nineteenth century, and they took those ideas and produced fine tales from them.

1. Go to your public library, head for the encyclopedias and read the articles about fairy tales, myths & legends and magic.

2. Go to the shelves and start reading. 398, which is the number for folkore, is a good place to start. Other works will be in the fiction section under the author's name, which you will get in step one.

3. Don't overlook kids' books. They can contain fine writing and great concepts.

=========
When I was a kid, my parents bought us the World Book Encyclopedia, which was accompanied by a set of books called The Junior Classics. The fairy tales in that set were wonderful! I was happy to learn that 30 years later my sister appropriated the Junior Classics on behalf of her daughter. Otherwise they would have gone to a thrift shop or worse.


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 01:07 PM

A reread of Kipling's 'Puck of Pook's Hill' and 'Rewards & Fairies' should make a good start; particularly the narrative links and several of the interpolated poems, esp 'The Way Thru The Woods'.

And William Allingham's 'Up the Airy Mountain'.

~M~


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 01:09 PM

And Keats' "La Belle Dans Sans Merci".


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources please
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 01:49 PM

Yes, I'm aware that there's no fairy bible so to speak - hence requests for suggested reading :)

Good suggestion re: Kipling M, yes will do, and it's probably all online too (I only have Kipling's poems in book form) Will look up Allingham & Keats.

WB Yeats should also be a good source. Though I only really know 'The Stolen Child' (cut and paste below), it offers a beautiful interpretation of the changeling motif from the Fey perspective, and that's also informed one of the themes I'm going to include.

The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries by Evans-Wentz looks to be a good start for lore, and it's to be found here on Sacred Texts too, for anyone interested:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/ffcc/



WHERE dips the rocky highland
Of Sleuth Wood in the lake,
There lies a leafy island
Where flapping herons wake
The drowsy water rats;
There we've hid our faery vats,
Full of berrys
And of reddest stolen cherries.
Come away, O human child!
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand.

Where the wave of moonlight glosses
The dim gray sands with light,
Far off by furthest Rosses
We foot it all the night,
Weaving olden dances
Mingling hands and mingling glances
Till the moon has taken flight;
To and fro we leap
And chase the frothy bubbles,
While the world is full of troubles
And anxious in its sleep.
Come away, O human child!
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand.

Where the wandering water gushes
From the hills above Glen-Car,
In pools among the rushes
That scarce could bathe a star,
We seek for slumbering trout
And whispering in their ears
Give them unquiet dreams;
Leaning softly out
From ferns that drop their tears
Over the young streams.
Come away, O human child!
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand.

Away with us he's going,
The solemn-eyed:
He'll hear no more the lowing
Of the calves on the warm hillside
Or the kettle on the hob
Sing peace into his breast,
Or see the brown mice bob
Round and round the oatmeal chest.
For he comes, the human child,
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For the world's more full of weeping than he can understand.


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 02:37 PM

James Hogg: "Kilmeny"

http://www.bartleby.com/41/447.html


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 03:32 PM

For a modern take on it, I enjoyed the first three books of the Fey series by Kristine Kathryn Rusch Here
And thanks for starting this discussion. It's brought my attention to the fact that the series has continued. I hadn't spotted there were later books.

I'll also echo the recommendation for "Puck of Pook's Hill" & "Rewards and Fairies"

Mustn't forget the obligatory plug for Terry Pratchett: "Lords & Ladies" :
"Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad."


Cheers

Nigel


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 03:41 PM

The title of Kipling's Rewards & Fairies is from Richard Corbet's C17 poem The Fairies' Farewell

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-fairies-farewell/

Don't forget, obvious as may seem, A Midsummer Night's Dream. Also Milton's Comus. And Spenser's The Faerie Queene might be worth searching, if you can plough thru its interminabilities!

~M~


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 03:52 PM

The ballad Thomas the Rhymer and Tam Lin. Both ballads were made in to books in the mid-1990's Pamela Dean wrote one of them, I forget the author of the other.


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 04:39 PM

I've not read either The Fairie Queene or Comus - both no doubt available online also, though classics are really best read in old second-hand hardbacks with that super fine paper and tiny print! I'm somewhat surprised I haven't read Spencer before now, but this will be a good reason to do so.


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 04:43 PM

Meant to include link to Spencer's Faerie Queene:

http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk_files=3276656&pageno=1


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 04:46 PM

Ballads indeed, as Phil pointed out ~~ also The Queen Of Elfland's Nourrice.

~M~


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 05:26 PM

Have you any idea of how long of Spenser's [note spelling] Faerie Queene is?

~M~


Wikipedia ~~ The Faerie Queene is an incomplete English epic poem by Edmund Spenser. The first half was published in 1590, and a second installment was published in 1596. The Faerie Queene is notable for its form: it was the first work written in Spenserian stanza and is one of the longest poems in the English language...


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 09:06 AM

Might not hurt to look at how fey is worked into Arthurian legend.

You might look also at Norse mythology. You could go back so far as Greek and Roman classical literature. Even ancient Persia had magical creatures, the Peri.

And there is this.
Irish mythology

I had some books, but I don't know where they are.

I am starting to see a journey story of the first fallen angels / clamouring demons, gaining power over humans as magical immortals. Gaining dominion over earth and then falling into myth over time and place.


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 10:51 AM

Anybody wishing to find out how deeply the belief in fairies effected the lives of ordinary people might care to follow up the story of Brigid Cleary around the end of the 19th century in rural Ireland.
It was a case that was used by opponents to oppose the demand for Irish Home Rule.
http://www.libraryireland.com/articles/Burning-Bridget-Cleary/
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 12:36 PM

George MacDonald (Victorian English author)

Shakespeare: Midsummer Night's Dream, the Tempest

Brothers Grimm

who was the Frenchman who brought us Cinderella?

"East of the Sun and West of the Moon"

"The Wizard of Washington Square" by Jane Somebody

Alan Garner

The Lion, the Witch and Wardrobe (and on till morning)


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 12:50 PM

"who was the Frenchman who brought us Cinderella?"

Charles Perrault


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 01:12 PM

And Andrew Lang, of course --

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Andrew Lang's Fairy Books — also known as Andrew Lang's "Coloured" Fairy Books or Andrew Lang's Fairy Books of Many Colors — are a series of twelve collections of fairy tales, published between 1889 and 1910. Each volume is distinguished by its own color. In all, 437 tales from a broad range of cultures and countries are presented.

~M~


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 02:18 PM

George MacDonald - I loved The Light Princess as a child and as an adult. No fey folk in it though as far as I remember.


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: richd
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 06:50 PM

I'm enjoying Mike Shevdon's 'The Courts of the Feyre' series at the moment, starting with '61 Nails'.
Also "The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries" by W Y Evans Wentz.


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 25 Apr 13 - 03:15 AM

Thanks for the further suggestions. Good call Tam, the world of the fey and the world of celtic myth and legend definitely cross over. re: Arthurian legend, I think I have (may be boxed still!!) the Mabinogion which could be a good start (never read it properly) I also have a book of "Celtic Fairy Tales" somewhere.

Oh and sorry about Spen*s*er M! Always best to get these things right.. Yes I'm aware that it's long (I have the second volume of a two volume set, which probably explains why I've never started reading it!), though along with other things it might be nice to fill my head with a little magic this summer.. I'm rather looking forward to immersion in the otherworld.

As to ballads involving the Fey, my favourite tale of the fey in ballad form, has to be the one about the king who loves lady isabelle, but the king of the faerie steals her lifeless body away to his stone castle.. For the life of me I can't remember the bliddy title - it has that queer refrain, scarlan owan grun!

Of course there's Tam Lin, but I've a feeling that's been thoroughly done already. And True Thomas too.

A part of the story is going to involve the main protagonists seeking out and working with a crotchety old folklorist and ballad singer, he has a lot of books.. Hands-up anyone who recognises themselves! That character will probably resemble pretty much all of the traddies in Mudcat...

In other news, while I love making a story and plot building, the nuts and bolts of sentence structure and use of grammar is really ropey, just like it's always been.. ugh! I need an editor. Or maybe to read a book on good grammar.


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 25 Apr 13 - 03:19 AM

"I am starting to see a journey story of the first fallen angels / clamouring demons, gaining power over humans as magical immortals. Gaining dominion over earth and then falling into myth over time and place."

Why not write it! We could have writing afternoons together on a Wednesday once a month - I could bring my laptop and we could read each others notes and brainstorm.


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Apr 13 - 04:54 AM

"first fallen angels"
In an introduction to one of his "fairy gotten" tunes, the piper, Seamus Ennis gave the fairies as being God's favourite angels who fell from grace because they "got above themselves" and "began to act the maggot" as they say here.
He banished them to earth, but so they would not interfere with humanity he restricted them to underground dwellings, living in "raths" or "Fairy Forts or "Forths"" (actually Iron Age ring forts or banked settlements).
Because of the dark airless conditions they lived in they reduced in physique and became deformed. They became incapable of bearing children so had to kidnap human children from above, leaving a changeling as a replacement - there are hundreds of "changeling" stories, often related to dance tunes.
Because of the strength of Fairy belief which dissuaded farmers from ploughing these "forts" many of them still exist - fairy lore is often described ad "the saviour of Irish archeology".
Many of today's farmers will not interfere with these places no matter how valuable they would be as farming land.
About a dozen years ago the plans for a proposed ring road around our market town was re-routed to avoid a "fairy bush" (whitethorn)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 25 Apr 13 - 05:03 AM

The ballad ("my favourite tale of the fey in ballad form") is King Orfeo (Child 19). Most of the online Child Vol 1 features the supernatural ballads. There's an intersting book on "Folklore in the English and Scottish Ballads" by Wimberly which explores the supernatural aspects. There's also an online version of the Mabinogion at Sacred Texts.

(I've tried pasting the links but Mudcat just rejects the whole post when I do.)


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 25 Apr 13 - 05:41 AM

And, of course, there's always Tolkien. It all depends on what sort of fairies/Elves you want yours to be like. I like Norse mythology, personally.


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 25 Apr 13 - 06:28 AM

Thanks Jim, wonderful stuff!

Yes Orfeo that's the one, from Orpheus of course.


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,VaTam on lunch
Date: 25 Apr 13 - 07:46 AM

Just picked up a Celtic Gods book that was going unwanted. Will give it to you when next we meet.

Re meeting up to write creatively.   We need to talk.


ASIDE: unrelated to topic.   Dinosaur hunt this weekend is off. I am too ill and TSO just received a load of Edexcel verifying he has to do.


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 13 - 07:55 AM

This may not be quite what you want, but it's a visual treat.

http://archive.org/details/irishfairybook00gravrich


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 25 Apr 13 - 08:03 AM

Perfect thanks Guest!

Tam have emailed you.


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 25 Apr 13 - 10:24 AM

We were just on about Orfeo the other night (Matthew Edwards & I); seems people are getting round to it at last, which is nice. I first sang it 33 years ago & I've been singing it ever since. Here's a one from last year:

https://soundcloud.com/sedayne-fiddlesangs/p-king-orfeo

I sing another one called Sir Olaf, but I'm not entirely sure of the provenance, but it's got a nice fragmentary feel to it. It goes:

Sir Olaf went out at early day
(the dance goes well so well in the grove)
& there he came on an elf dance gay
(and we'll tread the dance in the morning)

The elf lord reached out his white hand free
come Sir Olaf tread the dance with me

O not I will & not I may
tomorrow it is my wedding day

The elf lady reached out her white hand free
come Sir Olaf tread the dance with me

O not I will & not I may
tomorrow it is my wedding day

The bride unto her maid spoke so
what does it mean that the bells thus go?

Tis the custom of this our isle they reply
that each young swain ringeth home his bride

The truth to you to tell I fear
Sir Olaf is dead & is laid in his bier

And on the morrow e'er light was the day
round Sir Olaf's house three ghosts did stray

It was Sir Olaf and his young bride
& also his mother of sorrow she died

*

Otherwise - William Allingham's The Fairies (Up the Airy Mountain) featured in the original Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory film as a reference to the Oompa Loopas.

Fey Victoriana : Richard Dadd is worth a look, and The Elfin Oak in London (which might be later); a lot of Rackham's stuff is cute (from Trad Tales to Puck of Pooks Hill).   

Mark E Smith had a rant about an Elf called Norman on Elf Prefix, and The Fall song Elves is one of their finest, City Hobgoblins notwithstanding.

I have an obsession with Chthonic Troll stories from the collections of Asbjorsen & Moe; they are ultra-violent & great fun. Check out The Cat of Dovre and Porridge with a Troll; for a real treat Askelad & the Seven Silver Ducks is one of the finest stories ever made. I'm imagining these are all on line somewhere...


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 04:13 AM

At the end of the 1950s this town had a 'visitation-like' visit from Walt Disney and his entourage who were location filming for 'Darby O'Gill and the Little People' 20 miles north of here on The Burren.
They landed at one of our (still) great music pubs, took over the back room and began to talk 'fairies' and 'leprechauns' with the locals.
In those days the bar was run by a wonderful couple whose wit is still legendary.
Disney plonked himself in the most comfortable chair in the house, usually occupied by Tomas, the landlord, and drawled "tell me Tomas, did you ever see a fairy?"
Tomas thought for a minute and said, "to tell you the truth, wasn't there one sitting in that very chair your sitting in just the night before last".
Disney is said to have leapt a foot in the air, ordered one of his minions to photograph the the chair, then hurriedly left, never to be seen again (literally taken by the fairies).
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 07:55 AM

Hahaha!


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 11:41 AM

MorwenEdhelwen1 mentioned Tolkien. Here's the text from his "On Fairy Stories" which has er, "magically" appeared on the Web via the Ukraine...

http://bjorn.kiev.ua/librae/Tolkien/Tolkien_On_Fairy_Stories.htm

Essay originally written for the Andrew Lang lecture at St. Andrews in 1939, later appeared in "Tree and Leaf". This is available from the usual supects, latest edition also contains the wonderful "Leaf By Niggle", the dialogue "The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth" and another piece "Mythopoeia". Phew.


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 10:54 AM

Just to bump this back up...

Download our very long, entirely live real-time ceremonial seance on the theme of Tam Lin as conducted by Rachel (singing, loops, vocoder & mininova digital synthesiser) and Myself (drones, monotribe analog synthesizer, FX, loops, and electric fiddle) one braw dark winter nicht back in February. Not exactly your usually folky fare I admit, but we did this in the name of The Folk 'n' Fun Tradition of Gothic 'n' Northern and Chthonic Weirdlore in general. Not for the feint hearted!

Download link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/8rfk3h

(NB : Be sure to click on the BLUE BOX that says Click here to start download from SendSpace.)


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Apr 13 - 03:50 AM

One of the most common body of tales here is of The 'Jack-o'-Lantern' (sometimes called 'Will-o'-the-Wisp') - we collected dozens of stories, particularly from Travellers, of people led astray at night by lights floating in the air just out of reach and moving away when you tried to catch up with them.
They are said to appear particularly in damp, marshy places such as bogs, and are rationalised as 'marsh gas' caused by poor drainage.
A common belief is that they are spirits sent to lead you astray and it has been claimed that they have been the cause of disappearances and even deaths by drowning in bog-holes. The only way to escape from their clutches is to turn your coat inside-out and you will break the attraction.
One rainy night a couple of years ago we were looking out into the unmanageable acre of field we euphemistically refer to as a 'garden' when we spotted a little bunch of the buggers floating around the bank that serves as a back wall,
We stood for about half-an-hour watching them until our curiosity got the better of us; I put my coat on and made my way down to see what they were.
Rather boringly, they turned out to be reflections of light from the kitchen shining on the long fronds of wind-blown New Zealand flax we have planted to act as a wind-break - ah, well!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 28 Apr 13 - 06:08 AM

The preceding Will-o-the-Wisp tale* reminds me of a tale of the origin of the Welsh Twylwth Teg. They were, it is said, children, hidden away by their mother when she heard that Jesus was about to pass by. She had so many that she was ashamed but, having hidden half of their number from the sight of "God" they were, henceforth, hidden from the sight of God and Man. Occasionally these hidden children can still be seen playing and dancing in circles in the forest. As with most Faerie myths, if you get caught up in their dance, you are trapped (in their case for a year and a day). If you have a helpful friend who has a rowan branch they can get you out early if you grasp it as you dance past. I made up a ballad-style song around the myth which is here   Twylyth Teg

(* Do UK members remember the Kenneth Williams TV cartoons?)


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 28 Apr 13 - 06:11 AM

Of course we do! We can watch 'em on YouTube any time we like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43M55Ay6RKA


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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 28 Apr 13 - 06:47 AM

Nice selection of folktales about fairies

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Subject: RE: The Fey: stories and lore, sources pleas
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 28 Apr 13 - 06:53 AM

here.


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