BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 05:44 PM

Indeed. Of course, he had enormous help from Ernst Röhm, leader and organiser of the Brownshirts, aka SA or Sturmabteilung (Stormtroopers). He expressed his gratitude in typical fashion by having Röhm executed a year later, ostensibly on Himmler's orders, partly as a potential rival for the party leadership [probably he was, at that]; but largely because Röhm was homosexual, & Hitler hated gays as much as he hated Jews!

Sorry for drift -- but all historically relevant UTAP...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour.
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 06:22 PM

"Nobody was wounded by the rocket, which exploded on a road in the south of the country, Israeli police said."

No chance at all that the eventual response (whether publicised or not) will be as bloodless.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour.
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 06:31 PM

"It's called The Hippocratic Oath and forms the basis of the moral obligations of registration. Benevolence has nothing to do with it. It is a professional obligation."

Spot on Musket, and it's the reason why US Mobile Army Surgical Hospitals treated patients, friend or foe, based on clinical need.

It's what good Western doctors do, regardless of how the other side may act.

So if we are expected to issue pats on the back for Israeli doctors, fine and fair.

This has no relationship to our feelings about the government responsible for those Arab patients needing the services of those doctors.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour.
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 06:40 PM

"And you coming in with your inflammatory lie about Israel being a theocracy is constructive and helpful to the debate?"

Ah! Now we are getting somewhere!

So, Bobad, you now admit that decrying the actions of a militaristic and xenophobic Israeli government is not an antisemitic attack upon the Jews who live under the rule of said government?

At last we have a denial that all who disagree with Netanyahu's policies are antisemitic, so we can put that straw man to bed once and for all, straight from the horses mouth.

BOBAD admits that Israel is NOT a Jewish State.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 06:47 PM

"But you appear to me to have avoided the question as to why "Israel is where most Palestinians who can afford it go for healthcare","

Perhaps the fact that most hospitals in Gaza and the Palestinian 41% of the West Bank have either been shelled to pieces, or are packed to capacity by the cramming of over 4 million people into ever decreasing space.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 07:24 PM

Keep reaching GUEST,Troubadour. you may even convince yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 08:23 PM

Oh, I think the evidence has convinced many more than himself, Boo.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 08:58 PM

I'm happy to see my stalker's back - you missed a few posts - I was worried something might have happened to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 09:59 PM

The old "stalker" gambit. At least you're consistent with your BS, Boo.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 12:51 AM

Troubadour: As to "admitting that Israel is NOT a Jewish state", as you triumphantly claim Bobad to have done:-

It has never been a religiously Jewish state [ie a 'theocracy']. It was founded as an ETHNICALLY Jewish state, from earliest late-C19 concept of the early pioneers who founded the early kibbutzim, & from Herzl's writings, onward. This thread, as so many, is bedeviled by this constant failure to distinguish between Judaism as a FAITH, and Judaism as a RACIAL or ETHNIC group. Naturally there will be much overlap; but it is nevertheless a distinction to be constantly kept in mind in discussing any matters pertaining to Israel, or to the Jews in general. These days, probably the majority of those who regard themselves as Jewish keep up few, if any, of the obligations of their traditional faith, but have more or less strong feelings of ethnic solidarity nonetheless.


~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 04:05 AM

Slowly but surely, a wee bit of balance and reality is creeping into this thread. Poo Bad is showing his arse and his mates have gone quiet.

Here, Poo Bad... Got any more Hitler comparisons we can laugh at? Good God(win) I need a chuckle after the match last night.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 05:10 AM

A couple of views of "shelled to pieces" Gaza hospitals.
http://teeksaphoto.org/Levant2010/Hospital_youth_group_staff_meeting_1_4_11/content/Gaza_hospital_5752_large.html
http://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/images/other/img_3686_z.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 08:42 AM

More "Antisemitism" from Israel
Jim Carroll

ISRAELI SOLDIERS SPEAK OUT ON ABUSE OF PALESTINIANS
Kitty Holland
Irist times 19,06,14
Yehuda Shaul, a former Israeli soldier who served in the West Bank and Gaza, tells how he and fellow soldiers secured a television screen one night while out on patrol, to watch a World Cup match.
It was 2002 and Brazil was playing. "The way we passed those night patrols was to bang on random houses, no reason and we'd go in, wake everyone up, men in one room, women in another,mess everything up, onto the next house.
"That night we wanted to watch the match so we were looking for a house that had a satellite dish. We found one, «vent in and locked the family in the basement while we watched the match. Why wouldn't we? That's what we do in the occupied territories.
The most important message you get from your superiors in the Israeli military is that every Palestinian needs to feel Israel is at the back of their neck. So, quickly, you adapt to le environment; you don't see the Palestinian in front of you as human. They are reduced to being an object."
A photograph accompanies the story, of a young Israeli soldier grinning to the camera, in Palestinian family's living room, the aforementioned football match on their television in be background.
It is one of hundreds of chilling photographs taken by former members of the Israeli Defence Forces, of themselves and their colleagues engaging in what Shaul says becomes "normal" behaviour after being sent to the occupied territories of the West Bank and Gaza. A fraction - about 85 - will be exhibited by the Breaking the Silence project in Dublin from today.
Other photographs include one of a Palestinian man, blindfolded, his hands tied, his head bowed. A young Israeli soldier crouched down beside him beams to the camera in an image reminiscent of some that emanated from Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, in 2003.
Another shows a teenage boy, again hands tied, blindfold¬ed and left sitting, while Israeli soldiers chat in the back-ground. One of the most dis¬turbing is one of children, who appear aged between about sev¬en and 10, "playing soldiers".
Some are clearly 'playing' Palestinians, their hands against a wall, their legs splayed while another displays the occupying soldier, pointing a stick at them as a 'gun'. An Israeli soldier looks on. "This [kind of] experience is normal to these young kids," says Shaul "It's their reality from a young age."

'PEOPLE HADN'T A CLUE'
Breaking the Silence was initiated by Shaul 10 years ago, after he completed his tour of duty with the IDF in Hebron. All Israeli males must spend three years in the military and females two years, with some exceptions, after high school.
"When I came back, I began to question what I had done, what I had done to Palestinian people. Once I understood the reality of what I had done I found I couldn't continue unless I did something. I started to talk to military colleagues and found they felt the same. The one thing we kept bumping into was that people hadn't a clue."
Israelis, he says, didn't know - or didn't want to know - the abuses he says are perpetrated every day in the occupied territories. "Soldiers come home, maybe for a weekend. It's a different reality. They don't talk about the reality of the military. What happens in the West Bank stays in the West Bank."
He and colleagues began gathering photographs and testimonies and were soon exhibiting all over Israel, including in the parliament, the Knesset.
Their work created "noise", he says and for a time they were one of the biggest stories in the country. It has opened a discussion and some awareness but he says most Israelis choose to say of the occupation: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
"What we have documented are not isolated incidents. This is a story of what happens when a nice kid from Jerusalem or Tel Aviv gets sent to the Territories. They adapt."

EMBASSY COMMENT
Asked to comment, a spokesman for the Israeli embassy in Dublin said: "Breaking the Silence represents only an insignificant minority of IDF veterans (less than 1,000). It is not an objective human rights organisation. It is a political organisation devoted to tarnishing the defence Forces and, by extension, the Israeli state.
"Breaking the Silence are 'useful idiots' allowing themselves to be manipulated by the international boycott, divestment,sanctions campaign against Israel. It seeks to delegitimise and ultimately destroy the state of Israel as the national homeland of the Jewish people."
Breaking the Silence has exhibited in the US, Berlin, Madrid, Amsterdam, Copenhagen and Brussels and continues to gather photographs and testimony from returning soldiers. It runs at the Gallery of Photography in Dublin's Temple Bar from today until June 29th and is free.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 08:43 AM

Nice attempt to deflect away from the thing you have for the "democratically" elected terrorist group Hamas, Musket. We're not fooled though. Oh, and the absence of rebuttal to my post disproving your false contention re the obligation of MDs to treat has not gone unnoticed. We're watching.......and laughing.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 09:46 AM

[Israel]has never been a religiously Jewish state [ie a 'theocracy'].

You bet, ~M~. Its just a coincidence that the government is comprised entirely of members of the Jewish faith.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 10:03 AM

No, it isn't, actually. There are Arab members of the Knesset, like Jamal Zahalka*, some of whom have even been ministers -- tho probably none at present. But they are mainly members of the Jewish race, not the Jewish faith -- ie non-orthodox, non-practising, and probably several who are agnostic or atheist by persuasion. As usual, GregF, you are opening your exceptionally fat and loud mouth with extreme dogmatism on a topic on which you are just plain misinformed.

~M~

*Dr Jamal Zahalka (Arabic: جمال زحالقة‎, Hebrew: ג'מאל זחאלקה; born 11 January 1955) is an Israeli Arab who serves as a member of the Knesset representing the Balad party. He is a Balad party leader. Wikipedia -- read the full entry

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 10:08 AM

FYI --

"Balad (Hebrew: בָּלַ"ד, an acronym for Brit Le'umit Demokratit (Hebrew: בְּרִית לְאוּמִּית דֶּמוֹקְרָטִית, lit. National Democratic Assembly); Arabic: التجمع الوطني الديمقراطي‎, at-Tajamuʿ al-Waṭanī ad-Dīmūqraṭī or بلد, lit. Country or Nation) is an Israeli Arab political party in Israel led by Jamal Zahalka.[4] It is sometimes called the "National Democratic Alliance".[5]"

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 10:10 AM

List of Arab members of the Knesset

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 11:06 AM

Are you still coming out with that fantasy over doctors refusing to treat people on the basis of enemy?

Sounds like your knowledge of healthcare is about as good as your knowledge of The Middle East.

People like you but unfortunate enough to have influence are responsible for thousands of deaths and continuing long term suffering. If I were you I'd be grateful for your ignorance, it is the only thing stopping you from shameful sleepless nights.

That said, I enjoy the fascination of seeing the level when politicians harp on about getting people's opinions. They forget about the level of intelligence seen on these threads for starters.

Fuck me gently...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 11:06 AM

ISRAELI DEMOCRACY
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 12:08 PM

"Its just a coincidence that the government is comprised entirely of members of the Jewish faith."--GregF

Mr. F, you are entitled to all the biased opinions you care to spew. You may not, however, aver as the truth a lie. As of 2011, the Israeli
Knesset had 12 Arab members, of varying religions and backgrounds, out of a total membership of 120--10%!

Just for comparison, the current U.S. Congress (combined Senate and House) comprise 36 of 535 members who are Jewish--less than 7%! Of those 36, 35 are Democrats (one actually being an independent who caucuses with the Dems). One of these Jews definitely will not be returning for the next Congress; frankly, I don't care whether congress has no Jews or all Jews, although I would hope there would be fewer Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 12:30 PM

You were wrong Musket. Just because you had a job as a bean counter at the NHS it doesn't make you an expert on all matters medical but your inflated ego and arrogance won't let you admit it. You made that shit up.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 12:58 PM

I've never had a job in The NHS in my life. Never been a bean counter for that matter. Spent enough money employing the buggers though.

The GMC nor The Royal Colleges nor their equivalents in The WHO concordat make shit up though. When I regulated them, I had to understand them. When I married one, I took an interest in their obligations. Doctors cannot refuse to treat on the basis of enemy. They can refuse elective treatment on the basis of funding or clinical risk, but if a patient presents, a doctor cannot make the decision to not treat and every country signed up to the professional registration concordat has to honour that. You don't know fuck all, which is par for the thread.

I appear to know more than anyone else here, that's for sure, and considering I teach medical students, it's a good job the bloke behind Musket is competent. I'd fucking starve if I were as ignorant and self opinionated as you. You even give our resident corporal sign writer a run for his money.,

Your ball.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 01:00 PM

the Israeli Knesset had 12 Arab members

Well John & ~M~

1. Any of 'em Jewish?

2. How do they vote? - pro or con the Govt. policies RE:Occupied Territories, illegal settlements, human rights abuses, treatment of Palestinians & etc?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 01:38 PM

Man, GregF, you're becoming the equivalent of someone who used to post to Israel/Palestine topics...purposely obtuse and disengenuous.

Your first question merits no answer.

As to the second question, Bobad linked to a site, earlier today, which will answer your query. Since it appears you didn't read it, here it is again--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset (copy/paste to your internet provider of choice).

Go and learn! You might even like what you read. Or was that question just rhetorical to make us think Arabs in the Knesset are "Dohd Ali" or an Uncle Ali (cf to USA Uncle Tom).

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 01:58 PM

The assertion you are making is not supported by common law:

Under common law a physician has traditionally not been required to undertake the care of someone who is not already a patient. This reflects the position that no person is required to provide assistance to another except in exceptional circumstances.10,11,12 As summarized in St. John v. Pope (Texas Supreme Court, 1995), "Professionals do not owe a duty to exercise their particular talents, knowledge, and skill on behalf of every person they encounter in the course of the day … It is only with a physician's consent, whether express or implied, that the doctor–patient relationship comes into being."13 On the basis of the principle of contract law, that both parties must assent to the creation of a relationship, the right of refusal has been extended to emergency situations even when no other physician is available.14,15

10. Linden AM. Canadian tort law. 6th ed. Toronto: Butterworths; 1997. p. 284-99.
11. Fleming JG. The law of torts. 9th ed. Sydney (Australia): LBC Information Services; 1998. p. 162-72.
12. Klar LN. Tort law. 2nd ed. Scarborough (ON): Carswell; 1996. p. 147-69.
13. St. John v. Pope, 901 SW 2d 420 at 423 (Texas SC 1995).
14. Hurley v. Eddingfield, 59 NE 1058 (1901).
15. Fought v. Solce, 821 SW 2d 218 (Tex Ct Civ App 1991).

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 02:04 PM

I agree with you on GregF, JotSC, I think he's better off sticking to what he does best, ad hominem attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 02:10 PM

I think he'd do better to go away and wank in private, instead of doing it here publicly ad nauseam

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 06:24 PM

Oh you guys, what a buncha kidders. Look up "sarcasm" & "irony" some time you have a minute.

By the way - are you maintaining that there are no Jewish Arabs?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 06:54 PM

' i appear to know more than anyone else here' - jeez louise, comrade that is a mighty boast.
now lets see what we can prescribe to bring a dose of reality

dick gaughan - what you got
john martyn - may you never
gillian welsh - i dream a highway
nick lowe - what's so funny about peace love and understanding
joe strummer - bhindi bhagee

right. listen to that lot and then get cross about any other group

and grow up

peace and love

lucky pierre

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 08:55 PM

GregF -- "Oh you guys, what a buncha kidders. Look up "sarcasm" & "irony" some time you have a minute."

And to think that for the last bunch of years when I was arguing, discussing, sometimes agreeing with, but mostly not with GregF I thought he said what he meant and he meant what he said, but he was only being ironic and sarcastic. I guess I'll have to read between the lines, when I read a GregF post in future.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 11:43 PM

You do what you like, John. But I don't propose to read any more Greg F posts at all in the future. Life just too short.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 01:35 AM

The operative word being "appear." Although reading some of the shite on this thread it wouldn't take much to remove the word...

Poo Bad. You keep quoting something that doesn't contradict anything I put. Odd really. Although bear in mind that there are, to date, over forty USA doctors who cannot practice in most other countries due to their involvement in executions. State laws contradict federal obligations and the stalemate is ongoing. A British doctor who was struck off for falsifying research into MMR jabs has exploited that loophole and is carrying out research in Texas.

For the purpose of this thread, the question was raised over treating a man whilst holding his organisation to account for kidnap. I said that doctors have an obligation. That's how it is. The government can kick him out, the hospital can end treatment at a non critical stage but the doctors' hands are tied whilst ever he is their patient.

Medics and padres. People in uniform who don't use the word enemy.

But I don't expect that fits in with the bigotry and partisan balls you keep spewing out on this thread. Rather ugly really.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 05:18 AM

Medics and padres DO use the term enemy.
The Geneva convention states that wounded enemy prisoners must be treated with friendly casualties according to clinical need only.

As for the obligation to treat, try turning up at Harley Street or most hospitals in the world, without cash, card or insurance.
First aid if you are lucky.
Treatment no.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 07:19 AM

Correct.

As usual, said to contradict what I said. Which it doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 08:09 AM

So Musket, from what I can tell you are using the term "enemy" in the context of a declared war, that is a unique situation which is is not relevant to this discussion. As far as I know Israel is not at war with the Palestinian National Authority.

You also stated that doctors are obliged to treat in an emergency, this is not true.

The Israeli doctors were under no obligation to provide treatment to Abbas' wife - it was an act of benevolence. You are unable to accept that Israelis are capable of benevolence because you have demonized them in your mind - that is sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 09:06 AM

Musket.

Correct.

Yes I was, as usual.

As usual, said to contradict what I said. Which it doesn't.

Yes it does, because you were wrong and I was "correct."
As usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour.
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 09:22 AM

"Breaking the Silence represents only an insignificant minority of IDF veterans (less than 1,000). It is not an objective human rights organisation. It is a political organisation devoted to tarnishing the defence Forces and, by extension, the Israeli state.
"Breaking the Silence are 'useful idiots' allowing themselves to be manipulated by the international boycott"

Less than a thousand? The ones that have the guts or the humanity to speak out!

The last sentence? Mandy Rice-Davies!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 09:25 AM

...but he was only being ironic and sarcastic. I guess I'll have to read between the lines...

It might help, John, if you also looked up "context".



...I don't propose to read any more Greg F posts at all in the future. - ~M~

I'm heartbroken. Can I hold you to that?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 09:35 AM

"I don't propose to read any more Greg F posts at all in the future"
"And if you make any more statements I disagree with, I'll close my eyes and hold my breath and scweam and scweam and scweam....."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour.
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 09:39 AM

"Mr. F, you are entitled to all the biased opinions you care to spew. You may not, however, aver as the truth a lie. As of 2011, the Israeli
Knesset had 12 Arab members, of varying religions and backgrounds, out of a total membership of 120--10%!"

John on the Sunshine Coast (lightyears away from the plight of 4 million Palestinians crammed into two open prisons within the boundaries of Israel.

Within those boundaries there are also 6 million Israelis.

Does 10% of Arabs sound proportionate?

Because to me, and many others, the way in which Israel has ghettoised its Palestinian citizens indicates no intention to resolve the situation on either a one, or a two state solution, but rather the desire to dominate and eventually drive out the whole lot by making their lives a living hell.

Alongside of that, 12 Arabs in the Knesset is a laughably insignificant basis for your argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour.
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 09:47 AM

"But I don't expect that fits in with the bigotry and partisan balls you keep spewing out on this thread. Rather ugly really."

Musket, you have to make allowances for the fact that on his side of the Atlantic, the first question a doctor asks is "Who's paying, and how"?

Different world mate!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 09:52 AM

".... on his side of the Atlantic, the first question a doctor asks is "Who's paying, and how"?"

Not in my country, mate!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 10:23 AM

"Not in my country, mate!"
In Israel though - it's called "medical tourism"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 10:27 AM

Israel has ghettoised its Palestinian citizens

How so Troubadour?
They have full citizenship rights and can go where they please.

Perhaps you are thinking of West Bank where the Palestinians oppose immigration from any other race, especially Jews.

Or maybe Gaza where IDF forced Jewish settlers out at gunpoint and now the Arab people have it all and would kill any Jew found there.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour.
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 10:32 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 09:52 AM

".... on his side of the Atlantic, the first question a doctor asks is "Who's paying, and how"?"

Not in my country, mate!

So why are you quoting US and Texas law in defence of your argument, when you know that what I said DOES apply in the US, where they do enough to keep you alive before asking how you'll pay, then pursue you for the cost of keeping you alive.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 11:06 AM

The Israeli legal system is based in common law.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 11:21 AM

The jubilant reaction of many Palestinians to the kidnapping of three Israeli teenage boys has been met in the West with a bit of a shrug. The official daily PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadida has published cartoons mocking the three students and celebrating their capture. The Fatah Facebook page featured a cartoon of three rats dangling from a line. Sweets have been handed out on the streets (a traditional gesture of joy and celebration). Many children have been photographed by their parents, holding up three fingers and smiling. An internet campaign gathers pace and "popular support for the abduction has continued to proliferate on Palestinian social media" according to the journalist Elhanan Miller. Hamas, of course, is exultant. Yes, Abu Mazen has condemned the kidnap and there have been some brave Palestinian voices raised in defence of the three youngsters, but their voices are isolated; Palestinians calling for the return of the three students have been threatened.

Of course, Israel has to compromise and divide the land, making possible a Palestinian state. But if the Palestinians are treated as children, never held accountable for cultivating a culture of hate, then they will never make their own excruciating compromises for peace. And without those compromises – in a Middle East departing further from the norms of human behaviour by the day – Israel will not take risks for peace. Nor should it.

It's time to stop infantilising the Palestinians

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 11:40 AM

Bobad's link is to today's Daily Telegraph.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 01:08 PM

But if the Palestinians are treated as children, never held accountable...

Amusing, Boo, since you never hold the Israeli government accountable....