BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour.
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 06:36 PM

"The proof that honest brokerage of peaceful terms is nullified is the continued use of violence by Israel and the disproportionate reaction by the poor Palestinians.

Rock throwing is not comparable to phosphor bombs or home demolition by bulldozers

As evidenced by the continued housing developments, Israel would like to dominate any Palestinian attempt at autonomy."

Those who can look at this situation with an unbiased eye cannot fail to notice that it is the Palestinians who are:

1. Surrounded by armed soldiers in both Gaza and their 40% of the West Bank.
2. Debarred from accepting delivery of ANY goods directly, but forced to accept whatever those armed soldiers CHOOSE to allow.
3. Allowed to leave their open prison camps only by the consent of their prison guards.
4. Answered with live rifle fire if they throw a stone in the direction of their oppressors.
5. Fired upon if they approach the perimeter wire fence.
6. Kicked out of their homes and their olive groves destroyed, to make room for Israeli settlers.

How many Israelis are treated thus in surrounding Arab states?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour.
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 06:44 PM

"What have the Arabs of Palestine managed to achieve with it -S.F.A."

Palestine doesn't exist, thanks to Israeli intransigence, Palestine is two open prisons and a futile dream, so your question is facile and inane!

Palestinians can't even buy materials to repair Israeli damage to their homes, because "they might build bunkers instead", and we can't have them hiding in air raid shelters where the Israeli air strikes can't kill them, can we?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 07:42 PM

You neglected to mention that the Jews control the press and the world's economy.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 08:09 PM

Funnything, Boo - "Jews" aren't mentioned in either of Troubadour's posts. You're seeing things that aren't there again. Still. Yet

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 08:20 PM

I see that the point I was making flew over your head - no surprise there.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 09:07 PM

Flew over my head? Hardly, Boo - you were just beating the same old antisemitism drum. The ususl BS.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 09:55 PM

"Jews" aren't mentioned in either of Troubadour's posts.

This is not exactly true. Israel and Israeli is mentioned, and we know that Israel is known as the Jewish State, both within Israel and to the world in general. It was created specifically as the Jewish Homeland. Israel is the proxy word for Jew/Jewish in that post.
----------------------------------------------------------------

"How many Israelis are treated thus in surrounding Arab states?"

This is an easy one.

The easy answer is none, zero. This is not a matter of Arab/Muslim benevolence...there are no Israelis in the surrounding countries.

The harder answer is that Jews in those countries are treated as second class citizens, if they are considered citizens at all. Some of those countries don't have enough Jews to populate a synagogue, or even a Minyan (Ten Jews need to form a quorum for communal prayer.) Property is confiscated, Jews are hanged as spies after show trials, and if they are allowed leave those countries, it is with hardly more than the clothes on their backs. One could write a book about this, and many have

[for population statistics of Jews in Muslim countries, Arab countries, and the world in general, go to--
   --wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country--      ]

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 02:16 AM

1. Surrounded by armed soldiers in both Gaza and their 40% of the West Bank.

Most countries have armed border guards.

2. Debarred from accepting delivery of ANY goods directly, but forced to accept whatever those armed soldiers CHOOSE to allow.

There is a weapons embargo against Gaza which is at war with Israel.
Any country would do the same.

3. Allowed to leave their open prison camps only by the consent of their prison guards.

Not true. They can go anywhere they like except Israel, which they hate anyway.
   
4. Answered with live rifle fire if they throw a stone in the direction of their oppressors.

All Israel's neighbours are worse in that.

5. Fired upon if they approach the perimeter wire fence.

Yes. The fence is well inside Israel's border and there are prominent warnings which everyone is aware of anyway.

6. Kicked out of their homes and their olive groves destroyed, to make room for Israeli settlers.

Not true.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 03:34 AM

Israel is at "war" with Gaza? Your lack of knowledge of military matters is rather stunning Keith. Was The United Kingdom at "war" with Northern Island? Is North Korea at "war" with the people of North Korea?

Israel cannot be at "war" with land it considers partially it's territory, although the legitimate residents can be at war with Israel, seeing it as foreign aggressors. Israel claims the UN resolutions are invalid as Gaza forms part of their territory, making it an internal affair. In other words, terrorising people you have a duty to protect and serve. Not that those living there wish Israel to serve them, as they serve them with death and mayhem usually.

Israeli fighter jets bombed it only a few hours ago, killing a three year old child. If Poo Bad searches the internet, he might even come across pictures of her dead body. One less terrorist eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 04:02 AM

Israel is not at war with Gaza.
Gaza, under Hamas, is pledged to destroy Israel and kill all Jews.
It is at war with Israel and constantly committing war crimes against Israel by launching illegal, indiscriminate attacks on Israeli civilians.

Of course Israel hits back at those war criminals.
It would be a crime against their own people not to.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 06:26 AM

Your lack of knowledge is TRULY stunning Musket.

Just a couple of weeks ago you were telling us about non-existent UN and EU sanctions against Israel, and a silly little story about how you had to comply with them.
What are you like?!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 07:58 AM

Typical "Musketism":

"Israel is at "war" with Gaza?" - Musket

Which he got from:

"There is a weapons embargo against Gaza which is at war with Israel." - Keith A

Now let me see in recent times we have situations where:

The PIRA declared that they were "At War" with the Brits, and they actually attacked indiscriminately the general population, so please no protestations about them being at war with the British Government.

The above never ever automatically meant that the British, the British Government, or the British Army were ever "At War" with the PIRA.

The Taliban declared War on the UN and central Afghan Government's national reconstruction programme.

No reciprocal declaration from ISAF, ANSF or the Afghan Government.


Troubadour:

Those two prison camps who I think you are referring to - Gaza and the West Bank - If anybody made them so it was the Arabs themselves in 1949 when the Egyptians and the Jordanians took "Palestinians" and shut them up in refugee camps on Palestinian land.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 08:19 AM

This is not exactly true.

Its entirely true.

Israel is the proxy word for Jew/Jewish in that post.

Nonsense. You're simply conflating "Jew" with "Government of Israel"- after going to some pains to deny Israel is a theocracy & pointing out the Arabs in the Knesset, etc.- in order to raise the old shibboleth of anti-Semitism.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 10:59 AM

Musket you stated, " In case you weren't aware, there are some EU restrictions on selling military and espionage equipment to Israel as we see it as a rogue state. "

Then when I said there were no UN sanctions either, you replied, "Sorry, I didn't understand the rules. You didn't say we can't include reality. "

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 11:02 AM

The post.

Musket - PM
Date: 08 Jun 14 - 02:48 PM

"There are no UN sanctions"

Oh well, that's alright then.

Sorry, I didn't understand the rules. You didn't say we can't include reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 11:27 AM

"Nonsense. You're simply conflating "Jew" with "Government of Israel"- after going to some pains to deny Israel is a theocracy & pointing out the Arabs in the Knesset, etc.- in order to raise the old shibboleth of anti-Semitism."

Eleanor/Bill--every part of that sentence is wrong.
1) I do not conflate "Jew" with "Government". Go back to the earlier posts in this tread re: The Ottawa Protocols.
2) You obviously do not know the meaning of "theocracy."
3) Anti-semitism is not a shibboleth; it is still a very real phenomenon ith the world of 2014, and perhaps even at Mudcat.

Tippity-tap-tap.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 10:46 AM

My posts are missing as usual.

If this one gets there;

If Keith can say where I have ever spoke of UN sanctions I'd be grateful. If he then undertakes to find out the difference between sanctions and the resolutions I mentioned, he might be able to make a contribution to this thread.

Possibly anyway. His attempts to make me look an idiot above have adequately backfired as usual. By having a second pop, he even managed an encore of the hilarious...   I must stop, I'm in danger of pissing myself here...

Teribus needs to find out the significance of putting words in parantheses before allowing his comments to be judged. Perhaps he could let us know if he is labouring a false point or not getting a point?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 12:00 PM

Musket, I stated correctly that there were no UN sanctions, and you ridiculed me for it, saying you didn't know we could stray from reality.

And, you said unequivocally that there were EU restrictions in force and that you had had to comply with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 05:33 PM

Anti-semitism is not a shibboleth...

Context, John, Context.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 05:50 PM

I believe I have the context spot on, Greg. If you don't think I have, enlighten me.
BTW, as you did not comment on the rest of that post, you agree with 66.66% of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 05:56 PM

...agree with it!? (corrected punctuation

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 06:39 PM

Context:
25 Jun 14 - 07:42 PM
25 Jun 14 - 08:09 PM
25 Jun 14 - 08:20 PM
25 Jun 14 - 09:07 PM
26 Jun 14 - 08:19 AM

you agree with 66.66% of it?.

No.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 08:31 PM

Greg F.

25 Jun 14 - 07:42 PM - Bobad, I believe, was being ironic based on Troubadour's laundry lists @6:36 and @6:44. That'll context you.
25 Jun 14 - 08:09 PM - Your post misses Bobad's sarcasm. Ergo it seems to be you who misses context.
25 Jun 14 - 08:20 PM - Bobad confirms you missed his intention, confirming my "ergo".
25 Jun 14 - 09:07 PM - Having missed Bobad's meaning, you double down on @8:09 post.
26 Jun 14 - 08:19 AM - This is your post to me.
26 Jun 14 - 11:27 AM - My answer to your tripartite nonsense statement.

I pretty much (if not exactly) nailed the context issue. I can't say the same for you, but I appreciate the opportunity to show you where you went wrong.

JotSC

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 10:07 PM

Your post misses Bobad's sarcasm

No, John, YOU missed - Boo isn't being sarcastic. Its his pet theme that anyone who criticizes Israel in any shape or form is ipso facto an anti-Semite.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 02:51 AM

Restrictions = sanctions?

You really aren't informed enough on political or military matters to engage in debate Keith. I am no expert myself but bloody hell....

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 03:59 AM

As the EU impose neither Musket, you were wrong anyway.
As ever.
You are very ignorant but I will still debate with you.
You may learn.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 05:38 AM

EU don't impose, they may wish to compel member states to observe though, where such decisions are devolved to them, and trade outside of EU has many. The restrictions on nuclear and mass destruction materials is a NATO imposed restriction.

Start learning....

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 05:49 AM

Restrictions on sensitive nuclear material applies to all states, but you said,
" In case you weren't aware, there are some EU restrictions on selling military and espionage equipment to Israel as we see it as a rogue state. "

I was not aware because it is bollocks.
Made up.
Far from regarding it as a rogue state, it is an associate member state of the EU.

You were wrong and I was right, as ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 06:22 AM

"....anyone who criticizes Israel in any shape or form is ipso facto an anti-Semite."

Not true Greg.

Anyone who draws comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis is an antisemite as per the EUMC - now Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA).

Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations such as Israel being a theocracy or an apartheid state or referring to Gaza as a prison camp etc. This is antisemitism as per the EUMC - now Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA).

Singling out Israel for opprobrium. Just consider the thousands upon thousands of posts about Israel at Mudcat vs. the meager no. of posts concerning the human rights abuses, genocides, occupations etc. going on all over the world. These scarcely merit a few posts until the topic once again returns to Israel. Why is that Greg? I'll tell you why in one word Greg - that word is antisemitism whether you like it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 12:41 PM

Greg, in-as-much-as bobad has defended himself from your comments to me, I will refrain. I do not pretend to know who is nor who isn't an anti-Semite because I cannot see into their heart of hearts. But if someone continually debates using anti-Semitic language and arguments, as I pointed out earlier in this thread (and in others as well) what are we to think of that person. At some point the answer becomes obvious.

I will stand by my interpretation of the context of those posts you listed. I think I tend to take a longer view of what is context for individual posts on this thread than you. As to whether or not bobab was being ironic in his posts, I'll let him answer that challenge from you, also.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 03:01 PM

John, are you by innuendo attributing "anti-Semitic language and arguments" to me? If so, please identify same.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 03:24 PM

Associate member with certain export restrictions. I'm not arguing the probability, I'm telling you as a retired businessman who manufactured and sold engineering goods that could be used militarily.

That's the problem with you Keith. You'd rather trawl for bollocks that suits your view than accept facts.

This cow is small. That cow is far away....

Why don't you tell us how many UN resolutions censoring Israel last year alone?

I'll give you clue. There were less than 22 but more than 20. The rest of the world between them had less than 5 but more than 3.

How about I let you tell us their shocking human rights record and bloody minded contempt for the international community?

All you have to do is cut and paste 21 and 4 from this post. You are good at cut and paste so it shouldn't take long.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 03:36 PM

"Why don't you tell us how many UN resolutions censoring Israel last year alone?"

Do you think that the 50 Muslim majority countries in the UN might have something to do with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 05:11 PM

"John, are you by innuendo attributing "anti-Semitic language and arguments" to me? If so, please identify same."

I do stand by my statement in context. You wrote that, in essence, bobad is quick to play the A-card. I was responding specically to that statement of yours. During the fifteen years I have been at Mudcat, I have read posts which can be said to be anti-Semitic based on agreed international definitions. Some of those folks no longer post here, some still do. I am not the arbiter of what is anti-Semitic; I posted a link to the international definitions for everybody here to read if they care to. For all I know only bobad and I have read them, or maybe everybody has read and understood them.

The bottom line is this: if one uses the consensus identified anti-Semitic language/arguments more than seldom, maybe that one needs to become more self-aware, if they consider themselves to be fair critics. I believe that my statement @12:41 accurately reflects that.

Greg, last night I did all the research for you that I'm going to do. It is my job neither to look for damning posts from you, nor to determine that you have never so argued. Only you know truly know what you mean when you post. That goes for all of us on Mudcat.

JotSC

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 06:20 PM

Just for the record, John: I have not only read them but cited them several times on various threads.

Interests of accuracy [remember my 'pedantry is legendary', according to one poster] --

above passim in re UN resolutions:

for 'censoring'
read 'censuring'

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 06:50 PM

It is my job neither to look for damning posts from you, nor to determine that you have never so argued.

Well, John, it is apparently your job to slander by innuendo.

Good to know who - or what - I'm dealing with.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 07:10 PM

Do you think that the 50 Muslim majority countries in the UN might have something to do with that?

Anyone got any idea what this sentence is supposed to mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 07:32 PM

Singling out Israel for opprobrium. Just consider the thousands upon thousands of posts about Israel at Mudcat vs. the meager no. of posts concerning the human rights abuses, genocides, occupations etc. going on all over the world. These scarcely merit a few posts until the topic once again returns to Israel. Why is that Greg? I'll tell you why in one word Greg - that word is antisemitism whether you like it or not.

Let me try to explain the thing you don't understand. First, antisemitism is an attack on Jews because they are Jews. You OK with that? Second, one hundred thousand posts that attack the Israeli regime for their policies or aggressions beyond their own legal borders does not amount in the slightest to antisemitism. But one single post attacking those Israeli actions because they are carried out by Jews is antisemitic. Thousands of posts criticising Israel for its actions do not in any way amount to antisemitism. I criticise the Israeli regime's actions all the time, but always because I vehemently disagree with them, not because they are carried out by Jews. I haven't a clue as to whether the people carrying out those actions are practising Jews,lapsed Jews or whether they're even all ethnic Jews. I don't give a toss. What I do give a toss about is what is right and what is wrong. I really hope this helps. Of course, it won't if you Bibi's uncle. I absolutely hate your country's serial foreign policy outrages and I hate your gun laws and I hate your corporate anti-democracy and I hate the fact that your mass media is so good at lying to you that almost all your population is hoodwinked almost all the time. But I don't hate it because you're yanks. I hate it all for what it is. Spot the subtle difference. Oops, sorry, forgot. You don't do subtle, do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 08:00 PM

"referring to Gaza as a prison camp etc. This is antisemitism as per the EUMC - now Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA)."

What else would YOU call an enclave which constrains a population within barbed wire fences with armed guard guards controlling entry, exit and supplies of essential food and materials?

If it isn't ipso facto a prison camp, What the fuck IS IT you halfwit?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 08:06 PM

"These scarcely merit a few posts until the topic once again returns to Israel. Why is that Greg?"

Er......because it's a thread with the title "Small hope for Israel/Palestine"?

Start a thread about other abuses and expect to get answers and comment about those abuses, but in a thread about Israel v Palestine, surprise SURPRISE! We talk about Israel and Palestine.

NOW do you understand?

Sheesh! Will they ever stop playing the victim card?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 08:36 PM

Israel's security barrier has saved thousands of lives both Israeli and Palestinian. Israel wouldn't need the security barrier, if acts of incitement and terrorism against it stopped.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 08:42 PM

"Israel's security barrier has saved thousands of lives both Israeli and Palestinian. Israel wouldn't need the security barrier, if acts of incitement and terrorism against it stopped."

It is still a barrier with which one faction imprisons another.

Ipso facto A PRISON! And since it is not an enclosed building, or complex of buildings, it is a PRISON CAMP!

This is a term with which you would have NO problem whatever, were it ANY other nation than Israel doing the imprisoning.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 12:09 AM

Do you think that the 50 Muslim majority countries in the UN might have something to do with that?

Anyone got any idea what this sentence is supposed to mean? (Steve Shaw
.,,.

Yes, Steve. It couldn't be clearer. I bet you have every idea too, and are just being obstructive & disingenuous.

Or else you are sillier than has yet appeared, for all your occasional forays into point-missing deflection & obscurantism.

But just in case you really did miss it, the poster meant that all these Muslim countries represented in the UN General Assembly would as a matter of course vote for any motion purporting to censure Israel for anything whatever; so mentioning the number of motions censuring Israel as if that were some sort of incontovertible knockdown argument is a patent exercise in futility by overlooking this obvious shortcoming in the UN-censuring process.

Geddit now? Don't go on, please, pretending that this obvious point was incomprehensible to your oh-diddums-poor-little intellect...

Regards

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 02:16 AM

Last night Guest, Troubadour snarkily wrote, "Er......because it's a thread with the title "Small hope for Israel/Palestine"?" "Start a thread about other abuses and expect to get answers and comment about those abuses, but in a thread about Israel v Palestine, surprise SURPRISE! We talk about Israel and Palestine." Well, Troubadour, not exactly!

Four years ago and a week shy of a month a new thread was introduced by bobad, 'BS: Atrocities (Other Than Israeli).' I mentioned that thread on this one some weeks ago. I noted there, then, that it took all of four (as in 4) posts to turn the thread in to being about (alleged) Israeli atrocities. And the longer the thread went on, the more that thread became about, surprise SURPRISE—you got it—Israel. So much for your sarcasm.


Greg F., just to reminisce I perused many of my posts on that thread, and others that struck a chord with me. A person named Roberto made some very cogent arguments. I wish I wrote half so well as he. You posted there as well. What really struck me was that then, as now, you do not understand the meaning of the word 'theocracy', as I told you the other day.
--Greg F. [posting 4 years ago] Query: Why are theocracies like Iran & the Taliban universally condemned while the theocracy that is Israel universally praised? --
QED.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 02:37 AM

Oh right. UN is stuffed with Muslim countries now...

Poor bloody Israel eh ?

Their record will always be bloody whilst ever idiots keep making excuses for them.

Note the word "United" in UN.

Out of interest, other than me, who else here has travelled on business to both Israel and Palestine? Not that it was officially called Palestine but I digress.

It's just that some of the shit I am reading seems to contradict my own observations and experiences. A bit like the "Muslim" country with a state brewery and pork section in the main market in the capital. Reality rarely meets prejudice.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 02:18 PM

Small hope for iiiiii/ Palestine

More and more of the West Bank invaded, more and more illegal settlements, bombing of Gaza.

This thread is a waste; there is no hope for the Palestinians.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 04:50 PM

The bombing of Gaza is directed at the war criminals launching illegal, indiscriminate attacks on ordinary Israeli people.

If Gaza could only be persuaded to stop committing those wicked crimes, there would be no reason for Israel to strike back.
That would bring hope.

More and more of the West Bank invaded

It has only been invaded once by Israel, and that to fight off invaders of Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 05:20 PM

Adding to Keith's post:

There are no illegal settlements - unless of course one assumes that Jews should not own property or build in those areas because they are jews. Every current Jewish "settlement" is on land owned by Jews before 1948 or purchased after 1967. Settlements that tried to set up on land that was not Jewish owned have been dismantled. We continue to hear the term "illegal", but "legal and illegal" has to be more that political desires and interests. It has to refer to law. And, frankly, law established during the illegal Jordanian occupation of the area in which jewish property was confiscated and retitied, and current PA regulations that ban sales or ownership of property by Jews is not valid.

Just more uninformed, anti-Israeli bullshit to demonize a people.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 02:03 PM

Hamas has done it again - destroyed another possibility of a peace agreement.

Now watch the blame Israel chorus start when they retaliate - Hamas knows how to play the Jew haters of the world like a fiddle.

Bodies of Abducted Israeli Teens Found: Report

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 05:05 PM

And your proof that Hamas is to blame is....?