BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 08:29 AM

Closing tunnels at one point on a border is not a blockade. It is the wrong word to use. A blockade means cutting Gaza off from the outside world around all its air, land and sea borders. That what Israel does. Egypt closed some tunnels. Don't believe everything you see in the media.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 08:33 AM

Incidentally, you blokes talking about your dicks is more enlightening, more revealing and a damn sight more entertaining than your usual Islamophobic drivel. I'll work on finding some other diversions, I think. Anyone wanna talk man-boobs?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 08:47 AM

Israel's UN Ambassador Says There Are More Hamas Missiles at UNRWA Facilities
Algemeiner ^ | Friday, July 18, 2014 | Staff

Posted on 7/18/2014, 6:51:37 PM by Star Traveler

A day after UNRWA, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, admitted that it had discovered 20 Hamas rockets at one of its schools, Israel's UN Ambassador said he was certain that more such facilities housed Hamas weaponry.

"Yesterday, UNRWA admitted that it mysteriously found 20 missiles in one of its schools," Ambassador Ron Prosor said on Friday in an emergency Security Council session on Gaza. "I'm sure that if UNRWA takes the time to check its other facilities, it will discover that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Hamas is using UN facilities to commit a double war crime by targeting Israeli civilians while hiding behind Palestinian civilians."

His comments came the morning after Israeli forces entered Gaza in an expansion of Israel's Operation Protective Edge aimed at ending rocket fire against civilians.

In his extensive remarks, outlining Israel's position on the conflict with Hamas, Prosor also said that it was time for the international community to face the consequences of its failed policies regarding the Gaza based terror group.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 08:53 AM

"It is the wrong word to use."

I'll let Hamas know that Steve Shaw says they are using the wrong word - I`m sure the`ll be grateful for learning that.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 09:22 AM

Hamas are wrong about many things, minnow. Why don't you just toddle off and see them in person. Oh, and get them to show you the bombed-out homes and the children's graves, so that you can tell them yourself that they killed them.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 09:41 AM

More from today's Irish Times
Jim Carroll

'THE ISRELIS DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYBODY'
Ruadhán Mac Cormaic
In Gaza City
The longer diplomacy stalls, the higher the chances that Israel and Hamas will be drawn into a deadly drawn-our war, with civilians – and increasingly children – its greatest victims.

I n the neighbourhood, they used to call Mohammad Al-Bakr "The Prince". The scrawny 11-year-old, the only son of Ramez and Salwa, was in line to take over the fisherman's mantle that had passed down three generations and was now, due to his father's chronic back problems, soon to be his. He was good at school, and much of his free time was spent at the nearby beach, where all the Al-Bakr children swam and played football. When it was busy,
he made some pocket money by selling tea on the beach, and it was his dream one day to open a fish shop.
In a household where money was scarce, where Mohammad had just a single pair of trousers and two T-shirts, already there was talk about him becoming the breadwinner. A life at sea beckoned. "Our kids, their whole world is the water. They live their lives down there," says Samia, the boy's aunt, sitting in a spartan room in the family home. Beside her is Salwa, Mohammad's mother, who is swaying silently, her legs crossed beneath her on the bed. Around them are more than 20 women and children from the extended family, gathered in grief. "I told them not to go, but he insisted," Salwa whispers. "He just wanted to play."
On Wednesday afternoon, Mohammed was among a group of children who were playing on the Gaza city beach when a missile struck a shack on the harbour. The children ran away from the blast towards a hotel beyond some deserted beach cafes, according to witnesses, but within an instant a second missile struck, this one closer to the running children. Four cousins, all under 11, were killed on the beach that afternoon. Four more were injured.
The Al-Bakr family buried their children within hours of their deaths and returned to the family home. But their longest day wasn't over yet. At 5am, when everyone was in bed, the west-facing windows were suddenly blasted in. An Israeli "knock on the door" warning had fallen on the roof of a house across the road. People recognised it immediately, and they were fleeing. The children, screaming and crying, fell over each other in the panic to run down the street. A few minutes later, an Israeli rocket exploded on some open land across the road, leaving a 10-foot crater and causing extensive damage to adjacent homes. "We just stood there in the street," says Samia.

THE TERROR OF DAILY LIFE
Ali Abu Hasira watched it all unfold on the beach that day. He's 42, but he has been fishing here since he was 12, and he knew each of the boys and their family. He points to the spot where the first missile fell, then the second one. He describes how two of the children were flung more than 15 metres in different directions by the force of the blast. "The Israelis don't care about anybody," he says. Around us, the beach is deserted. Normally there would be up to 30 fishermen on foot and more than 100 out at sea. Today there are none." Heart-wrenching stories of the traumas are being inflicted by the latest confrontation between Israel and Hamas have abounded this week. Local health ministry figures show that, of the 260 people who were killed in Gaza, the great majority were civilians and 48 were children. Yet the killings on Gaza beach touched a nerve. Outside the enclave, they drew revulsion. Inside, they seemed somehow to multiply the terror of daily life. If four children playing on a beach could be hit, then anyone could.
Even the smallest decision was freighted with risk. Should you stay in, knowing that residential homes have taken the brunt of the bombardment (sometimes taking neighbours' houses with them) or go out and risk walking down the wrong street at the wrong time?
When 27-year-old Riwaa Bassal opened her Facebook last Saturday night, she read that her younger brother Mohammed had been killed when a bomb hit a building he was walking past in the district of Zeitoun. "My brother was walking in the street," she says, speaking in the classroom of a UN school that has been converted into a shelter for Gazans who left their homes due to heavy bombing. "He wasn't carrying a rocket. He was walking peacefully."

VAST BOMB SITES
There was terror and fear, but boredom too. When a five-hour ceasefire, agreed by Israel and Hamas at the UN's request, came into effect on Thursday morning, people spilled out onto the streets. For 10 days, Gaza had been deserted, the shops closed and cars few and far between. Most people hadn't left their homes. Suddenly the central market was bustling, the traffic jams returned and life took on its old rhythms, however briefly.
As they stocked up on food and other essentials, people admitted that after more than a week of sitting inside waiting for the bombs to fall, they were relieved to be out again; and to catch up with friends and family. "We got bored at home," said Ayman, whose men's clothes shop at the entrance to Zawiya market had opened for the first time in 10 days even though he didn't expect to do any business.
"We're not selling anything," he said, pointing to the huge stock of jeans and shirts he imported, from Turkey in the hope of a busy Eid. "People are only buying food and drink, but we opened so we could be outside and see people."
In normal times, daily life in this crowded, impoverished sliver of land is a struggle. With the bombings, the strip has been left disfigured as well. Families sift through vast bomb sites where their homes once stood. Charred rockets sit in craters at the side of the road. At the overstretched Shifa hospital, there are barely enough spaces in the ramshackle morgue to meet demand. Children in shock - inert, rigid, exuding fear- are a disturbingly common sight.
Yet the real tragedy is that these dystopian scenes, like much else about the latest conflagration, in so many ways recall the events in 2009 and 2012, when Israel and Hamas last confronted one another from either side of the buffer zone. And while both sides will claim to have made short-term gains, few expect the landscape that emerges once the smoke has cleared to be meaningfully different to that of 10 days ago.
Last Sunday night in Tel Aviv, big crowds turned out to watch the World Cup final on big screens in expensive bars and cafes around the city. With its elegant beachfront, its clean, orderly streets and its thriving social scene, Israel's commercial heart felt like a European Mediterranean city that night - and a world away from the chaos just a few hours to the south. But while only one Israeli has been killed by a militant rocket from Gaza (a 37-year-old who was delivering food to Israeli soldiers near the border with Gaza, killed by a fragment of mortar fire) and the Iron Dome missile defence system has succeeded in shielding urban areas, the psychological effect of hearing wailing sirens in public places several times a day weighs heavily on public opinion.
Up to 90 per cent of Israelis, according to opinion polls, support the government's actions in Gaza. Notwithstanding the pressure prime minister Binjamin Netanyahu faces on his right flank, the public is firmly behind him. For Hamas, the conflict brought the risk of huge losses but also some strategic opportunities. Hamas ha' been at a low point recently.
Isolated in the wake of the upheaval in Egypt and the civil war in Syria, and under financial pressure since the closure of Gaza's southern border with Egypt, which deprived it of goods and tax revenues, the organisation recently opted to transfer formal authority over the civic administration in Gaza to the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah. That led to a reconciliation agreement between Hamas and the Palestinian Liberation Organisation on terms that were seen as casting Hamas, the winner of an election in Gaza in 2006, as the weaker partner.
Now, however, it finds itself back in a central role, presenting itself in a defensive posture and enhanced in the eyes of its supporters.
As columnist Chemi Shalev wrote in the liberal Israeli newspaper Haaretz this week, "The Israeli bombing raids on Gaza and the casualties inflicted on its civilian population have cast Hamas once again as the main pillar of resistance against the evil Zionists and placed them in perfect position to play hard to get in the upcoming efforts led by Secretary of State John Kerry to broker a cease fire."
Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian Authority chairman, appears sidelined. On the streets of Gaza this week it was difficult to find anyone who would criticise Hamas, at least in public. "May God protect Hamas," says Ghalia al-Sawar-ka, who left her home in the north of Gaza in the middle of the night after the Israelis dropped leaflets warning of a bombardment in the area. "Without Hamas, we'd be completely lost."
On the ground in Gaza, the situation changes by the hour. Thursday began with a ceasefire and ended with Israel mounting a ground operation that involved tanks, drones, fighter jets, Apache helicopters and naval gunships. So far that operation has been limited. Israeli government ministers have said it is focused on militant tunnels along the border, and an Israel Defence Forces spokesman said it was not aimed at "toppling Hamas".
The widespread belief is that Netanyahu does not want to re-occupy the strip, but Israel may be calculating that by tightening its grip and ensuring Hamas cannot resupply, the militants will be forced to agree to a ceasefire.
Hamas warns that Israel will "pay a heavy price" for the ground invasion and insists it will only agree to a truce if Israel agrees to lift the siege of Gaza and to release the dozens of prisoners freed in the 2011 deal for captured Israel soldier Gilad Shalit, who were rearrested recently in the wake of the killing of three kidnapped Israeli children.
Neither side has an interest in prolonging the war; in that sense, their needs are aligned. For Israel, a full invasion would risk heavy casualties and require a huge long-term investment in the security and development of the strip. Domestic public opinion might baulk at that, while removing Hamas by killing its leaders would run the risk of seeing it replaced with something even more unpalatable to Israel.
On the other side, Hamas also needs the conflict to end. Its arsenal is depleting fast, Gazans are growing impatient and there are signs of divisions between the political and military camps within the organisation.
Both sides need a way out, yet the military momentum is building all the time. The longer diplomacy stalls, the higher the chances that Israel and Hamas will be drawn into a deadly, drawn-out war that both sides have an interest in averting.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 09:44 AM

If there is no Egyptian blockade, what was the point of the tunnels anyway Steve?
Closing the tunnels was just reinforcing the existing blockade.

How can you have such passionate views on something you know and understand so little about?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 09:50 AM

"Hamas are wrong about many things,"

Finally a post from Shaw that isn't his usual hateful, made up garbage.

I have to agree that Hamas is wrong about many things namely stealing money that is rightfully meant for the people of Gaza and enriching themselves with it and using it to purchase rockets and mortars to terrorize the civilians of Israel with.

They are also wrong about siting those rockets and mortars in schools, hospitals, mosques and civilian areas knowing that innocent people will die when they are attacked so they can then use those deaths as propaganda to demonize Israel.

They are also wrong to encourage Gazans to act a human shields.

Finally, they are wrong to commit themselves to the genocide of a people.

Shaw finally manages to get something right.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 12:34 PM

Steve Pshaw: "Incidentally, you blokes talking about your dicks is more enlightening..."

You brought it up...why don't you just start your own thread about your peckers?...You and Musket should have a gay ol' time!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 01:25 PM

Yesterday we had the amusing spectacle of Richard and Musket arguing over who was the most leftie.
Musket claimed he was because he had voted Labour more times.
Richard said he was because he had NOT voted Labour under Blair.

We also see the lefties competing over who hates Israel most.
No matter that they do not know that Egypt blockades Israel, or think that there are EU "restrictions" and UN "sanctions" against it.
Just so long as they REALLY hate it.

That is why discussion of much worse evils, like Caliphates, Putin and Islamism get ignored or converted to more bile against Israel.

Jim, Hamas just blew up a Bedouin camp, killing one and injuring many.
Any outrage from you?
There would be if Israel did such a thing!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 01:28 PM

Woops!
Sorry.

We also see the lefties competing over who hates Israel most.
No matter that they do not know that Egypt blockades Gaza, or think that there are EU "restrictions" and UN "sanctions" against Israel.
Just so long as they REALLY hate it.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 01:45 PM

a)The conflict between Israel and the G
aza Strip is an "international armed
conflict" for the purposes of international law.
In this respect, the
Commission relies upon decisions of
the Supreme Court of Israel
and
statements by various United Nations
organizations and humanitarian and
human rights organizations.
(b)
Israel's effective control of the G
aza Strip ended when disengagement was
completed in 2005.
In this respect, the Comm
ission relies upon a decision
of the Supreme Court of Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 01:47 PM

Oops sorry - the previous post is a non post, I was just playing around with formatting.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 01:55 PM

Ohhh! And there was I, trying to analyse it as a poem! All ready to expound on the politico/poetic significance of the repeated splitting of Gaza by enjambement between its upper case initial and its lower case remainder ~~~

and you went & spoilt it!

Boohoo! Chizz!

☹☹~M~☹☹

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 02:02 PM

Makes about as much sense as your other posts, Boo.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 03:25 PM

I invented nothing Musket.
Tell us specifically what you deny, and I will remind you of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 06:16 PM

So,chaps, if I park my pantechnicon across the mouth of the Channel Tunnel and let the tyres down and throw the keys in La Manche, I'd be "blockading Europe", huh? Jeez, what a bunch of comedians. Israel is blockading Gaza. Egypt has shut down a tunnel or two at one point on the border. Of course, you want Egypt to be blockading Gaza because that would add grist to your pro-Israeli regime mill. Good luck. But do take a good look at the regime in Egypt before you call them your partners in crime. They're not very nice, what with proposing mass executions and all that. Still, it must feel good to have them on your side, chaps. You suit each other very nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 04:39 AM

Celebrating?
What a sick lie.
No-one on this forum has done that, so why claim it?

Steve, Egypt has closed its border with Gaza, allowing nothing in or out.
That is a blockade and everyone understands that except you.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 04:43 AM

Guardian Wednesday.
" angry that it did not deal with some of the group's (Hamas') major demands: a conclusive end of Israel and Egypt's blockade on Gaza,"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/16/egypt-no-negotiations-gaza-ceasefire-israel-hamas

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 04:46 AM

Guardian November.
"Gaza becoming uninhabitable as blockade tightens, says UN.
Destruction of smuggling tunnels and renewed ban on import of construction materials have exacerbated humanitarian crisis"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/22/gaza-uninhabitable-blockade-united-nations

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 05:13 AM

"That is a blockade and everyone understands that except you."
Why do you insist telling all of us that we are on our own when we disagree with you - does this not strike even you as somewhat ludicrous?
It probably hasn't escaped the humanitarian side of this argument that you Israeli appeasers have totally ignored the details of what is happening to the Palestinian people at the hands of the Israeli thugs and are choosing to point out what will happen if the Palestinians don't surrender - 'Come out with your hands up and we will spare your lives' - sounds like gloating to me and I wouldn't expect anything else from you.
This conflict is rapidly becoming an extension of the already inhuman Israeli blockade - Assad couldn't begin to compete.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 09:50 AM

As an Iranian-Canadian who has spent years raising awareness of human rights violations inside Iran, it grieves me that Tehran's brutal agenda is now playing itself out in Israel and Gaza. Were it not for the Iranian regime's extensive role in laying the foundation for the current war, the past few weeks may have been very different for Israelis and Palestinians. Those of us in the West who care about peace in the Middle East should recognize that Tehran's fingerprints are all over the current round of violence.

The Star.com

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 10:05 AM

"On Sunday morning, a soldier reported that he and other IDF medical staff had saved the life of a Gaza terrorist. Soldier Daniel Albo told Yediot Aharonot, "My team and I saved the life of a terrorist who tried to kill us because we are IDF soldiers and citizens of Israel. We saved him because we are human."

IDF Creates Field Hospital for Injured Palestinians

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 10:12 AM

A United Nations agency that last week found rockets in a Gaza school operating under its auspices has handed that weaponry over to Hamas, Israeli officials said Sunday, accusing the organization of actively helping the terrorist organization potentially attack Israeli civilians

"The rockets were passed on to the government authorities in Gaza, which is Hamas. In other words, UNRWA handed to Hamas rockets that could well be shot at Israel," a senior Israeli official told The Times of Israel.

Read more: UN agency handed rockets back to Hamas, Israel says | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/un-agency-handed-rockets-back-to-hamas-israel-says/#ixzz381AomQKi
Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 10:13 AM

"As an Iranian-Canadian who has spent years raising awareness of human rights violations "
No-one here has supported the Hamas rockets
You people have consistently supported Israeli brutal and cynical use of them as an excuse to create an apartheid Israeli state.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 10:18 AM

We support Israel's right to defend itself....you apparently do not.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 10:48 AM

"That is a blockade and everyone understands that except you."
Why do you insist telling all of us that we are on our own when we disagree with you - does this not strike even you as somewhat ludicrous?

I do not Jim.
I told Steve that he alone denied the long-standing Egyptian blockade of Gaza.

If you are equally ignorant I will rephrase.

That is a blockade and everyone understands that except you Steve, and Jim Carroll.

Happy now Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 11:11 AM

"That is a blockade and everyone understands that except you Steve, and Jim Carroll."
Yeah - you've already told us you are infallible in these matters - perhaps you might like to get your head around 'ludicrous'
"We support Israel's right to defend itself."
Against all those threatening non-combatants it is in the process of slaughtering, no doubt - they must believe they are hiding in the hospitals they are demanding be evacuated before pounding them to rubble.
Up our side!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 11:20 AM

So, is there an Egyptian blockade of Gaza or not?
I provided Guardian quoting both UN and Hamas saying there is.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 11:23 AM

hospitals they are demanding be evacuated before pounding them to rubble.

None have been Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 11:33 AM

"We"

You know, some people should care for the company they keep.

And be prepared to have a good shower afterwards, scabbing away at the stains such associations can leave.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 11:34 AM

Course they haven't Keith - if you (and Israel say so - if they aren't rubble yet, it's not for the want of trying on Israel's part.
How about your responding to Israel's deliberatly attacking a hospital by giving the staff ten minutes to evacuate the patients?
Didn't do it (again), huh?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 12:06 PM

Yes Jim.
We could discuss that.
So why make up the ludicrous "hospitals pounded to rubble" invention.

Why don't we all try to be rational and honest?


Musket, you are just throwing insults around.
Will you actually challenge any single thing I have actually said?
Of course not!
You can't, hence the insults.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 12:24 PM

So, are you guys going to come to an agreement whether there is an Egyptian blockade of Gaza or not..or do we just change the subject?
...and about the 'pounding of hospitals to rubble', Shhhh!..If you tell Hamas that Israel won't do that, guess where Hamas will set up it's missiles!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 12:46 PM

"There is no site that is off limits for Hamas – it is storing its weapons in family homes, launching rockets from mosques and establishing its headquarters in the basement of a Gaza hospital.

Yesterday, UNRWA admitted that it mysteriously found 20 missiles in one of its schools. I'm sure that if UNRWA takes the time to check its other facilities, it will discover that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Hamas is using UN facilities to commit a double war crime by targeting Israeli civilians while hiding behind Palestinian civilians.

From the safety of their luxury hotels in Qatar, Hamas leaders like Khaled Mashaal order room service with one hand and order Hamas to use Palestinians as human shields with the other.

But you don't have to take my word for it. The Palestinian delegate to the UN Human Rights Council admitted as much, saying (and I quote): "The missiles that are now being launched against Israel, each and every missile constitutes a crime against humanity, whether it hits or misses, because it is directed at civilian targets."

Israel's UN Ambassador Says There Are More Hamas Missiles at UNRWA Facilities

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 12:51 PM

U.N ambulance help Hamas terrorists to flee from the IDF

This video is from a previous conflict between #Israel and Hamas.
It shows Hamas #terrorists fleeing the scene of a shootout with #Israeli soldiers in the back of a U.N. ambulance.
This is how "humanitarian" measures are being cynically used to further terrorism in #Gaza!

YouTube

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 12:55 PM

"So Hamas is both targeting civilians and Hamas is hiding behind civilians. That's a double war crime, and therefore all civilian deaths as regrettable as they are fall on their shoulders."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 01:10 PM

"We could discuss that."
We could - ut you haven't, nor will you.
I was referring to shells being fired at the hospital in question that they went right through it and entered the building next door - photographs available.
I have little doubt that, due to the indiscriminate nature of Israel's assault, there are hospitals, and schools, and medical centres - you name it, now lying in ruins - that's the nature of heavy artillery being used on civilian areas.
Just been looking at television footage of the result of Israel's latest triumphs - children being carried from the rubble of destroyed builldings - must confess - they are too far gone to tell whether they are hospitals or not.
Rational or not to assume tat they are quite possibly hospitals?
Holocaust denier shit!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 01:17 PM

"While the Israeli pilots have mostly targeted residential houses, Gaza's infrastructure and public buildings suffered too. According to figures from a PLO press conference on Tuesday, the partial damage extended to 72 schools, three hospitals and five other health centers, eight ministries and 64 mosques. Three mosques were completely destroyed. -
ISRAELI DESTRUCTION
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 01:22 PM

Jim, Though I heartily disagree with you, and I believe your position is mightily flawed, I commend you for keeping your side of the 'debate' civil and to the point, as far as being on topic!!

that said, consider: ""So Hamas is both targeting civilians and Hamas is hiding behind civilians. That's a double war crime, and therefore all civilian deaths as regrettable as they are fall on their shoulders."

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 01:42 PM

"o Hamas is both targeting civilians and Hamas is hiding behind civilians."
Whatever I may think of Hamas - and I've already made my position clear on that one - Hamas is standing between Israel and the Palestinian people - without them, there would be no viable opposition to Israeli State terrorism - set a dog to catch a dog, it would appear.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 01:51 PM

The body count is rising.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 02:22 PM

Jim, Israel could easily reduce all Gaza's hospitals to rubble in just a couple of strikes.
It is self evident that they are not trying to.

On two separate occasions I have seen reporters speaking from a hospital suddenly drowned out by the roar of rocket launches.

Thanks for telling us about a "PLO" press conference.
They are not famously reliable you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 02:56 PM

"It is self evident that they are not trying to."
Three hospitals, five health centres and seventy two schools makes it quite "self-evident" that they don't give two monkeys who or what they hit - go and count the dead civilians if you have any doubt of this.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 03:22 PM

Since July 9, 417 people have been killed in Gaza, among them more than 100 children, and more than 3,000 injured.

What say, Jim, we take up a collection to send FW Keith to Gaza to experience the situation first hand?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 05:34 PM

"Jim, Though I heartily disagree with you, and I believe your position is mightily flawed, I commend you for keeping your side of the 'debate' civil and to the point"
GFS 0122 PM

"Holocaust denier shit!"
Jim Carroll 0110 PM


"Civil"???

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 09:30 PM

All things considered, Yes!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 10:41 PM

Hey man, he believes what he believes....so do a lot of people with political persuasions...but he does post from articles which supports his views, rather than the antics of the wannabe block-headed ideologues with no basis, other than, 'that's the way I think it SHOULD be.
That said, I think that if he ever locked onto the truth about the matter, and put aside the 'blame game', and perceived 'rights or wrongs', he'd be rather outspoken, without the antics, than a lot of other feeble brained people, who don't know 'why' they believe that way, other than it being part of the 'liberal package'!!
I hope in the exchange of info and ideas, a greater understanding comes out of it....BUT...it still would be interesting to hear what would he, or any of the others, would say what they think Israel SHOULD do, not only as the missiles are being launched at them, but in the overall.
Israel is NOT going to just go away, and they are the only solid democracy over there...what do you think they should do?
(NOT a trick question!).

Respectfully to both Keith and Jim!

GfS

P.S. Keith, you and I, are in more agreement about this, as you can tell from prior posts....I just want to be hipped to the 'plan' as alluded to by Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 11:41 PM

Well, clearly GFS, more on your & K's side than some others, although, as I never tire of saying, the way Israel has turned out is unhappily not what we hoped and worked for all those days of my far-off youth; & indeed constitutes probably the greatest disappointment of my entire long life.

But, try as I might to "consider all things", you & I clearly have somewhat differing ideas as to what the concept of "civility" subsumes...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 03:49 AM

"Civil"???
'There comes a time in all men's souls' when the flow of bile and inhumanity.... to misquote The Kingson Trio.
One minute the destruction of hospitals is:
"make up the ludicrous "hospitals pounded to rubble" invention."
Next minute reduces to:
"Israel could easily reduce all Gaza's hospitals to rubble in just a couple of strikes. It is self evident that they are not trying to"
Now, after "Three hospitals, five health centres and seventy two schools" - silence, not worth a mention, what they deserve, allowed for by the rules of war.... whatever.
At least David Irving made an effort to give a little respectability to his hatred with pseudo-historical research - with this gobshite its just they didn't do it because they said so.
As I said, "Holocaust denier shit!", pure and simple.
Keith more than once has declared himself a Christian, and in the best condescending Christian tradition, informed me that he 'prayed for us' - his regular outpourings of hatred and inhumanity must be have come from a different 'Gentle Jesus' who was said to have 'walked among the poor', and 'blessed the meek' and 'the peacemakers'.
His 'Christianity' puts an entirely new slant on the phrase, 'suffer the children' - god save us all from all such religions.
"so do a lot of people with political persuasions"
Why is it so important with you people to pin a "political persuasion" on those you disagree with - rhetorical question - it saves you the bother of trying to deal with the points they raise.
One of you bent over backwards some time ago to get me to state my political position and allegiances - handy weapon to give to those you disagree with in these arguments.
I have no allegiances - I despise or distrust most politicians, and those I do respect leave me uneasy by their chosen careers, and their exposure to corruption and betrayal.
If anything, inhumanity, injustice and cruelty does it for me every time - enough here for me to end my life an angry old man.
Where's Osborn, Pinter and Wesker when you need them? - have to do with Loach, Dobbs and Plater I suppose - ah well!!   
Jim Carroll