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Rosebud in June - age?

DigiTrad:
ROSEBUD IN JUNE


GUEST,guest 06 May 13 - 11:35 PM
GUEST,leeneia 07 May 13 - 01:09 PM
Steve Gardham 07 May 13 - 01:21 PM
GUEST,sciencegeek 07 May 13 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,original poster 07 May 13 - 02:04 PM
GUEST,leeneia 07 May 13 - 02:56 PM
GUEST,Spleen Cringe 07 May 13 - 03:05 PM
GUEST,leeneia 08 May 13 - 12:09 PM
pavane 08 May 13 - 02:08 PM
Phil Edwards 08 May 13 - 03:58 PM
Joe Offer 29 Apr 16 - 10:07 PM
Steve Gardham 30 Apr 16 - 11:02 AM
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Subject: Rosebud in June age?
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 06 May 13 - 11:35 PM

I'm doing a program of sheep/shearing-related songs at a museum in conjunction with a sheep to shawl competition.

I'll be singing Rosebud in June and wondered if anyone has anything further to say about its origins and/or date than what I found on
http://mainlynorfolk.info/steeleye.span/songs/rosebudinjune.html, which seems to indicate that the earliest record is 1715.

It "feels" earlier to me, but what do I know? :-)

Thoughts?


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Subject: RE: Rosebud in June age?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 May 13 - 01:09 PM

I cant provide any further facts, but I am experienced at reading text written by people who are trying to hide their lack of knowledge. And one thing people really have lack of knowledge about is tunes.

The site you linked finally comes out and says:

"It was sung on the stage in a play called The Custom of the Manor in 1715, but it's doubtful whether a town composer made it, even though it's an unusual shape for a traditional tune. Most probably he lifted it from tradition."

Well, that writer might have thought the tune had an usual shape for a traditional tune, but I don't think so. It's got a usual shape for a kind of tune called a slow air. And it's my impression that the poor people of the British Isles have been composing slow airs for a long, long time while publishers, etc have paid almost no attention. So that tune could have been original in 1715 or it could have been around for a hundred years already.
=========
I hope you won't mind a suggestion. If you are going to sing this song for an audience, sing it more happily than Steeleye Span does it. That Steeleye Span recording could be about a battle or a massacre or the crucifixion. It's a happy song, so sing it happily. Your audience will pay more attention, I think.

You don't have to speed it up or make it trivial, but if you smile with your eyes as sing about dancing and making love, it will be a better song.


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Subject: RE: Rosebud in June age?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 May 13 - 01:21 PM

Likewise just an opinion. To me this epitomises the theatrical tunes flying about in the early 18th century, as do the pastoral words. It was extremely popular in those 18th century upmarket songsters as well as on later broadsides aimed at a lesser audience. Why is it 'doubtful that a town composer made it'?


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Subject: RE: Rosebud in June age?
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 07 May 13 - 01:37 PM

I do have to agree with Leeneia... it should not be sung sung like a dirge.

What other selections have you found for the program? Darby Ram and Click go the Shears ( Australian)are two good choices that spring to mind. The Scottish song Work of the Weavers might fit... but I can't remember if sheep to shawl uses knitting or weaving for the final product...


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Subject: RE: Rosebud in June age?
From: GUEST,original poster
Date: 07 May 13 - 02:04 PM

Thanks for the input. I'll probably just say it dates to mid-18th century or earlier.

As for the other selections, it's been a fun challenge. As it's a very general audience, I wanted a combination of familiar and unfamiliar, plus a couple for the kiddies.

General sheep-farming songs:
From the Lambing to the Wool (Judy Small)
Now I'm Easy (Eric Bogle)
Broom of the Cowdenknowes
Waltzing Matilda

More specific to the processes:
Click Go the Shears
Tarry Wool
Spinning Wheel

Children's songs:
Baa Baa Black Sheep
Mary Had a Little Lamb

I would have liked to pin down a weaving song, but time was limited and I could only learn so many new songs in the time.


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Subject: RE: Rosebud in June age?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 May 13 - 02:56 PM

I don't know if you'd want it for your show, but I'd like to mention that one of the most tender songs about shearing that I've ever heard was sung by Martin Wyndham Read. Called (I think) "I don't go shearing anymore," it is an old man's sad, gentle farewell to the life he once knew.


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Subject: RE: Rosebud in June age?
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 07 May 13 - 03:05 PM

Here's a chirpier version: Sproatly Smith


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Subject: RE: Rosebud in June age?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 May 13 - 12:09 PM

Thanks, that's a nice version.


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Subject: RE: Rosebud in June age?
From: pavane
Date: 08 May 13 - 02:08 PM

"Searching for lambs" is a classic - try and find it by Tony Rose


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Subject: RE: Rosebud in June age?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 08 May 13 - 03:58 PM

I agree with Steve G on "Rosebud in June" - it's always struck me as a song full of vague pastoral cliche, very much a "town composer" job.

"Searching for lambs" is one of my favourite songs in the world, and Tony Rose's version is terrific. Failing that it's sung here by, um, me.

Glad you're not doing "The shearing's not for you".


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Subject: RE: Rosebud in June age?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Apr 16 - 10:07 PM

Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry on this song:

Rosebud in June

DESCRIPTION: "Here the rosebuds in June and the violets are blowing, The small birds they whistle on every green bough." Singer celebrates joys of spring, dancing on the green, and sheepshearing. The song may describe the cycle of the seasons.
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1840
KEYWORDS: ritual dancing nonballad sheep
FOUND IN: Britain(England)
REFERENCES (3 citations):
Sharp-100E 93, "It's a Rosebud in June" (1 text, 1 tune)
Palmer-ECS, #11, "The Rosebuds in June" (1 text, 1 tune)
DT, ROSEBUDJ*

Roud #812
ALTERNATE TITLES:
Here's the Rosebud in June
Rosebud in June
NOTES: This song, a simple pastoral on its face, has ritual overtones. Note the chorus: "We'll pipe and we'll sing, Love/We'll dance in a ring, Love/When each lad takes his lass/All on the green grass/And the lads and the lasses to sheep-shearing go." Ring-dancing was characteristic of rituals in pre-Christian Europe. Other verses have hints of sympathetic magic as well. -PJS
Last updated in version 3.7
File: ShH93

Go to the Ballad Search form
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Go to the Ballad Index Instructions
Go to the Ballad Index Bibliography or Discography

The Ballad Index Copyright 2015 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: RE: Rosebud in June - age?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 30 Apr 16 - 11:02 AM

PJS.
Some people will read magic into anything and nothing.


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