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BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term

Jack the Sailor 14 Jan 14 - 03:58 PM
GUEST,Troubadour 14 Jan 14 - 03:48 PM
GUEST 14 Jan 14 - 03:36 PM
GUEST 14 Jan 14 - 03:30 PM
Jack the Sailor 14 Jan 14 - 03:08 PM
GUEST,Pete from seven stars link 14 Jan 14 - 02:48 PM
akenaton 14 Jan 14 - 02:01 PM
GUEST,Musket 14 Jan 14 - 07:09 AM
GUEST,the troll who replaces the troll formally kn 14 Jan 14 - 06:49 AM
GUEST,Musket 14 Jan 14 - 06:27 AM
Joe Offer 14 Jan 14 - 03:20 AM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Jan 14 - 02:42 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 14 Jan 14 - 02:31 AM
GUEST,Musket 14 Jan 14 - 01:31 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 14 Jan 14 - 12:12 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Jan 14 - 05:15 PM
Jack the Sailor 13 Jan 14 - 12:52 PM
Jack the Sailor 13 Jan 14 - 12:47 PM
GUEST,Musket 13 Jan 14 - 12:44 PM
Jack the Sailor 13 Jan 14 - 12:40 PM
GUEST,Pete from seven stars link 13 Jan 14 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,Musket 13 Jan 14 - 12:00 PM
Jack the Sailor 13 Jan 14 - 11:55 AM
GUEST,Musket 13 Jan 14 - 11:54 AM
GUEST,troll replacing the troll who is not a troll 13 Jan 14 - 11:51 AM
Jack the Sailor 13 Jan 14 - 11:47 AM
Jack the Sailor 13 Jan 14 - 11:37 AM
GUEST,troll replacing the troll who is not a troll 13 Jan 14 - 10:39 AM
GUEST,Musket 13 Jan 14 - 02:15 AM
Joe Offer 13 Jan 14 - 12:13 AM
Jack the Sailor 12 Jan 14 - 06:05 PM
Jack the Sailor 12 Jan 14 - 05:48 PM
akenaton 12 Jan 14 - 05:38 PM
GUEST,Musket 12 Jan 14 - 05:31 PM
Jack the Sailor 12 Jan 14 - 04:52 PM
Jack the Sailor 12 Jan 14 - 04:05 PM
GUEST,troll replacing the troll who is not a troll 12 Jan 14 - 04:04 PM
Jack the Sailor 12 Jan 14 - 02:44 PM
Jack the Sailor 12 Jan 14 - 02:40 PM
GUEST,Musket 12 Jan 14 - 02:03 PM
Jack the Sailor 12 Jan 14 - 01:49 PM
Jack the Sailor 12 Jan 14 - 01:35 PM
akenaton 12 Jan 14 - 01:12 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 12 Jan 14 - 12:22 PM
GUEST,Musket 12 Jan 14 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,troll replacing the troll who is not a troll 12 Jan 14 - 11:17 AM
Stu 12 Jan 14 - 11:16 AM
Greg F. 12 Jan 14 - 10:43 AM
akenaton 12 Jan 14 - 08:38 AM
GUEST,Musket 12 Jan 14 - 06:28 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 03:58 PM

GUEST, You can click on "membership" and read the rules yourself. I didn't make them up and I won't defend them. I will abide by them if they are enforced or abided by. If you think Musket deserves to carry on his vendetta of unkind words in violation of those rules, why don't you ask Max to add "except for Musket."


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 03:48 PM

"To ask why these rates apply only to male homosexuals in every country in the world,"

Well Ake, if you want bigotry accepted as normal, how about lying?

In third world countries HIV/AIDS is rife among heteros (up to 40% infected in many African states), so you are either VERY selective in choosing your statistics, or else a bloody liar.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 03:36 PM

"pete and Ake and I and the several others you berate, have a right to be anything they want except for unkind, impolite, argumentative or snooty."

Are you even aware of the stupidity of that statement and the range of GENUINELY unacceptable behaviour it endorses?

No wonder Musket extracts the urine (is that more the kind of language you accept?)


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 03:30 PM

""Bigotted in the opinion of Ian. Is not on the list."

Maybe bigotted in the opinion of all but three or four posters should be.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 03:08 PM

"Personally, Ian's ranting and gibberish has no effect on me, but if these bullying tactics are to be referred to as "less than congenial",
then that is an open invitation for the whole membership to dispense with reason and adopt abuse as a debating tactic. "

Certainly it is an invitation to Musket to continue in he rule breaking.

The logical conclusion is that Joe does not approve of those rules as written. Its like he is saying keep making up nasty things to call people. but be nicer about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 02:48 PM

Ah, shimrod, another assertion, implying evolutionism has evidence to back it ,and creation does,nt. I have offered evidences that suggest that the biblical timeline is more in keeping with the evidence, than the imagined aeons of Darwinism.    I can't recall you offering any evidence at all!


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 02:01 PM

You say my views on health rates are distasteful Ian....fair enough, you put up an argument that says homosexual men have the same rates of sexually transmitted disease as heterosexuals and I will debate with you on that.

However.....I see no "laughing and joking" in your posts to me or to Christians. they contain vicious abuse cursing and insults, but even someone with a "liberal" perspective would be hard pushed to find any humour there.

Joe....You say Ian should be "more congenial", but seriously, what would you think if we all behaved in the manner that Ian does?
Do you think cursing swearing, insults, name calling in place of reasoned argument are good for the forum? Do you not see what would happen if we all used personal abuse as a weapon?

I know my views are not popular with the majority here, but the figures are true and extremely worrying and as such are a subject for debate.
To ask why these rates apply only to male homosexuals in every country in the world, and why homosexuality is being promoted as a safe and healthy lifestyle while these rates apply, is surely a debatable issue and people arguing on either side of that debate should not be subjected to personal abuse or claims of bigotry?

Personally, Ian's ranting and gibberish has no effect on me, but if these bullying tactics are to be referred to as "less than congenial",
then that is an open invitation for the whole membership to dispense with reason and adopt abuse as a debating tactic.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 07:09 AM

Congenital ? Oh, sorry, I see what you mean Joe.

The snag is, as I have said before.. There are some suspect postings in the BS section, as there should be I suppose. But standing up to bigotry isn't one of them.

Laughing and joking with people who have distasteful views is laughing at those they feel superior to. I can't help that. I'm not a politician and I can't be hypocritical over this.

Some of them debase what you hold dear too, so your restraint isn't so much admirable as confusing to a simple soul like me. (Note, I don't have a soul...).

For instance, watch this..


Oy Keith. I see the Israelis give state funerals to terrorists!



Wait.....


Be patient ....


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,the troll who replaces the troll formally kn
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 06:49 AM

Barnacle balls is just like a banging door aint he?

And like a banging door he should be shut close!!

He Cant think of anything nice to say about anyone so he goes for two of the nicest people on this thread; me and sweetpants.

When will this nautical nob-head up anchor and sail of into the sunset?

His self centered attitude and self righteous posing is a s bad as that other no mark, old dude and his little tic tocks.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 06:27 AM

Who blinked?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 03:20 AM

A few people have objected to my suggestion that Musket should be nicer, so let me retract that....he should be "more congenial," a "hale fellow well met," and the like...

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 02:42 AM

Here is the claim Musket made.
No-one had a memory of such an event.
No news agency has any reference to such an event.
Such an event would be highly memorable and widely reported.
Google finds no trace of it.

: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket - PM
Date: 16 Dec 13 - 09:36 AM

Can't decide whether to offer it a Christian burial or not.

The children in an Islamic School in Nigeria the other year weren't given a choice. They were cut up and fed to pigs.

I would have mentioned them before but Keith insists this is about Christians being persecuted rather than persecuting.

(That last sentence is also untrue)


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 02:31 AM

"... musket keeps attacking me for my non belief, that everything came from nothing via no one..."

As I keep telling you, over and over and over again, pete, it's not a question of BELIEF, or "non belief" it's a question of EVIDENCE. You can believe whatever nonsense you like but if you want to convince anyone else, you have to provide some evidence.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 01:31 AM

Aye Goofus. Beer does that. He had his toes amputated so he could get closer to the bar.

Nice to see the support for homophobia. Yeah Jerk, he has a right to an opinion, but here in civilisation, we have laws to protect people from having to read incitement to hatred. The worm doesn't live in Dumbfuckistan.

I point out hatred expressed on this website.

For good reason.

Which seem to escape your notice.

At least I hope that's what it is.

Hi Keith. Does nurse know you are up and about ? Feeding pork is one thing, educating it seems to be another thing entirely. For anyone interested in what Keith is waffling on about. I mentioned a media report where in the ethnic conflict African stakes, a gang claiming to be. "Christian" carried out atrocities on communities claiming to be "Muslim." Keith couldn't find a web based account of this particular claim, despite a couple of million of us being informed of it , hence I appear to be a liar.

Possibly a contender for Jerk's adjudication of the rules. There again, don't be silly Musket. The object of the exercise is to allow bigotry to be posted in peace. Silly me.



Anyway, away from the "let's deflect criticism away from odious views and go for Musket instead" which is better by the way than when you type odious bullshit between you, back to the thread.

Curious report yesterday of a man from Afghanistan who was granted leave to stay here for a few years. Those are now up and in the meantime he has lost his Muslim faith. He is claiming religious asylum as an atheist on the grounds that he could be executed on his return, apostate and all that.

Funny thing religion. Till you see the dangerous side.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 14 - 12:12 AM

musket: "...so claiming you shouldn't be ashamed of your odious view on the basis Christians share it is beneath contempt. Marriage is open to all."

Yeah, I met your mother...nice guy!..and your dad, sure had nice boobs!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 05:15 PM

What could be more foul mouthed than teaching fantasy as fact to impressionable children?

How about inventing an incident that never happened, involving school kids being chopped up and the bits fed to pigs.
That is the product of a very sick mind.
I think that is worse.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 12:52 PM

>>>
What could be more foul mouthed than teaching fantasy as fact to impressionable children? Telling them they are sinners? Compared to the beautiful reality of the universe, teaching them a boring restrictive alternative based on superstition and mistrust of others?

I think you will find pete, that promoting reality isn't antagonistic, it's beginning to right a historical wrong. <<<

Sigh, you are welcome to right that historical wrong, on this forum if you so chose.

Click on the "membership link" you will see this.

"You are free to be anything you want EXCEPT unkind, impolite, argumentative, snooty, or either FOR or AGAINST that of-what-we-do-not-speak."

Its very simple and not much to ask. What is it that you do not understand?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 12:47 PM

That is commendable pete. I hereby commend you for saying it. I, on the other hand am tired of Musket calling me names and calling other people names, spreading bile and anger on this forum like uncomposted pig manure on Covent Garden. I would prefer that he took his need to release his anger, which he has recently expressed on this thread and his disproportionate responses, expressed with the "embers", analogy elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 12:44 PM

What could be more foul mouthed than teaching fantasy as fact to impressionable children? Telling them they are sinners? Compared to the beautiful reality of the universe, teaching them a boring restrictive alternative based on superstition and mistrust of others?

I think you will find pete, that promoting reality isn't antagonistic, it's beginning to right a historical wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 12:40 PM

"The rules would prevent the person posting as Akenston from repeating the awful abhorrent hate he propagates, yet because he does it without the word "fuck" that's alright?"

The rules say that you are free to be anything but the five things listed. "Bigotted in the opinion of Ian. Is not on the list. It is very simple and clear.

I don't stereotype rational people. I have been saying that some people who claim to be atheists share some of traits that they abhor in people of faith. You and two others quickly identified yourselves as such and proceeded to prove my point over and over again. The two others are now behaving much more rationally, while you are refusing to read and understand a very simple and clear sentence written by the owner of this forum.   

As infuriating as pete's lack of logic is, He has not been unkind, he has not been impolite, he has not been argumentative, he has not been snooty toward you or anyone on this forum. You have been all of the above to many people. So have I. But when I realized it was against the rules, I stopped.

>>>If it's all the same to you, I'll keep taking the piss, you'll keep lobbing grenades and pete can keep questioning the age of the universe.<<<

No it is not all to same to me. As long as I am abiding by the rules I will ask see them enforced.

They are only grenades in your apparently confused mind. As I said, I said that "some people on this" forum behaved like the "militant atheists" that Van Der Wall, famous Atheist scientist, was describing. You and a couple of others reacted to that by picking a fight. I'll admit that when you insulted me I tried to police you with your own medicine. That was before I heard of and bought into the rule change.

pete and Ake and I and the several others you berate, have a right to be anything they want except for unkind, impolite, argumentative or snooty.

You have the right to the same. You have no right to try to police others by being unkind, impolite, argumentative or snooty. It is as simple as that.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 12:32 PM

Oy,musket keeps attacking me for my non belief, that everything came from nothing via no one................seriously though, musket and co may be foul mouthed antagonists , but I don't get upset about it as I suspect it is obvious to most people ,even those who might otherwise agree with them, who is being unconstructive in their postings.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 12:00 PM

That should say gay, not hay.

I appear to have a homophobic iPad.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 11:55 AM

No, I want to play by the rules posted on the "Membership" page.

The previous post could not have been more argumentative.

>>From: GUEST,troll replacing the troll who is not a troll - PM
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 11:51 AM

I see seaman staynes wants to play by his own set of rules!!

Cant you see it is you that is wrong you nasty, little self opinionated, cake eating latchicoe you? <<


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 11:54 AM

Yeah but no but. The troll who is etc tells everyone she fancies me, which I reckon is a secret way of saying she fancies me. Can't blame her, the mirror never lies.

Look Jack, you are trying to reason with me so let me be serious as a bit of a one off.

The rules would prevent the person posting as Akenston from repeating the awful abhorrent hate he propagates, yet because he does it without the word "fuck" that's alright?

You make a point of stereotyping and making sweeping generalisations of rational people, but reacting to that is apparently wrong.

pete insults anyone and everyone who is involved in any way in any branch of science, and says that lack of belief is a belief system, not to mention that the world is a few weeks old. But if you don't respect that irresponsible claptrap, you must be the one at fault ?

If it's all the same to you, I'll keep taking the piss, you'll keep lobbing grenades and pete can keep questioning the age of the universe. Everybody happy.

But in the meantime, it would be nice if hay members of Mudcat could open a thread without having to read that they are perversion and against natural law. It would be nice if, as an idea, Max wrote some rules to ensure they could? Perhaps find a nautical judge to shout "point of order!" when there is a risk that people could read something distressing without having provoked it?

Ditto having to put up with fools who try to bring your lack of belief down to their level.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,troll replacing the troll who is not a troll
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 11:51 AM

I see seaman staynes wants to play by his own set of rules!!

Cant you see it is you that is wrong you nasty, little self opinionated, cake eating latchicoe you?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 11:47 AM

And I still think Musket should be nicer....

Musket doesn't have to be nicer.

He has to NOT be unkind, impolite, argumentative or snooty.

You don't have to avoid encouraging musket is his self-appointed crusade to bully opinions he does not like off this forum.

But it makes it harder on everyone, including musket and you when you do. You seem to enjoy the chaos that reigns here up until the point where it is laid at your feet.

I get the feeling that you are undermining Max's rule change that you are not in accord with his idea with how things should be.

How do you feel the "self-policing" should be done? With fighting and rancor? I feel it is best done when everyone tries to follow the rules and they refuse to encourage those who do deliberately break the rules.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 11:37 AM

Musket, No one is asking you to stop expressing your opinions. You are simply being asked to play by the rules. These rules which can be found by clicking on the membership page.

You are free to be anything you want EXCEPT unkind, impolite, argumentative, snooty.

All you have to do is express your opinions without being any of those things.

I see you are finding nicer ways to justify your boorish, antisocial and rule flouting behavior.

"I find fighting smouldering embers with huge flames to be most cathartic. "

Though I find that your admitting the lack of proportion in what you do without remorse is disturbing. I hope that whatever mental anguish is causing you to feel you need this catharsis abates soon. But please until then, please try to be to follow the rules.

I am trying to follow the rules. It is an adjustment. Until recently kindness and politeness has not been a requirement here and much of the "policing" has been done by people rudely shouting others down, one of my first experiences here was being called a "horse's patoot" by a well respected moderator here. I won't deny the truth of the charge. I was being unkind, impolite, argumentative, maybe a little snooty. But that was the culture for much of the forum. No doubt others considered it "wit" as I did.

Bottom line, you need to follow the rules. Policing is not done through name calling here any more. The moderators don't do it anymore (to be fair the moderators that did don't moderate anymore) Most members don't do it anymore. I don't do it anymore and you have no right to do it. If you want someone to take out your anger on, join a boxing gym or get a therapist. But the rules here say

You are free to be anything you want EXCEPT unkind, impolite, argumentative, snooty.

That means that you are not free to be any of those things. Max's rule change was pretty smart. Now once the culture has changed enough so that most people here are not beating down people who they disagree with, the moderators need only pick off the worst offenders one at a time. As long as you are calling me, Ake, and pete names and/or trying to pick fights with us, every time we offer an opinion, not involving you, on a particular topic you will be at the top of their list.

You and this person. who is nothing but impolite, argumentative, and snooty will be at the top of their list.

From: GUEST,troll replacing the troll who is not a troll - PM
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 10:39 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,troll replacing the troll who is not a troll
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 10:39 AM

here here fellows!! well spoken.

You see barnacle balls, there is a major flaw in your whingeing; some of us ;notably sweet cheeks muskett and I make no pretense of who we are
.I have never pretended to be anything else than a humble troll

On the other hand a major fraud such as you leaves yourself wide open for some mild teasing and criticism.

I mean, your absurd nautical pretensions alone sets you aside from intelligent chaps and chapessese.

There is no such thing as "nice", a particularly middle class woosy ginger liberal home service express readers beige word.

Most of the people posting on here (with the exception of course of muskeett and i) are not nice and leave themselves wide open with their smart arsed, pseudo semi digested comments, their outrageous comments on folks grammar and spelling etc,a lot of this directed at me personally, so aint ii right I come back at them with a little gentle teasing?

Jerk, face it, you are not nice with your dangerous reactionary posts.The likes of you the antisocial shaw person, big baby wizzjet the horrible unstable gnome charector are the ones who are out of order here..as muscett quaintly and eloquently puts it..you don't like it bugger of then


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 02:15 AM

Aye Joe. And it would be nice if there were things for Musket to be nice about.

Every time the worm puts the word marriage in parentheses when referring to same sex marriage , don't expect me to say "well, that's one view." It's disgraceful bigotry of the first order.

Every time Jack pushes his beliefs down peoples' throats by giving stereotypical slurs to the already insulting term atheist, I doubt I will keep quiet.

Every time you wash your hands of everything to do with religion other than your particular congregation yet say Christians this, Christians that, I will point out the role of appointed (anointed ?) leaders and their responsibilities in order for any congregation to have relevance in their community at large.

I find fighting smouldering embers with huge flames to be most cathartic. Certainly flushes out a few real agendas.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Jan 14 - 12:13 AM

Well, I'm the Music editor here now, and I don't have anything to do with enforcing the "rules," such as they are. The longstanding practice at Mudcat has been that for the most part, people are supposed to police themselves and act in a civil manner simply because it's good for discussion.

There's so much bickering and nastiness in this thread, that it's hard for me to figure out where there's any logic in this discussion any more.

I did see some comments before that seem to say that the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury have no right to "intervene" in "political" issues. That's not really how things work in churches in modern times. For the most part, blind obedience disappeared a century or more ago. The Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury represent their denominations, so that does give them some clout; but mostly what they do, is say what they think on issues they consider important. They present their opinions in a rational manner and invite people to consider what they say. If what they say makes sense, people may go along with it. If not, people ignore them.

At times in this forum, it seems to me that some people are saying that religious leaders have no right to speak out on issues that are not strictly religious, because they might unduly influence matters in which they have no business. Well, I disagree. Religious leaders have as much right to speak out, as anyone.

And I still think Musket should be nicer....

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 06:05 PM

>>>Homosexuals can avail themselves of civil "marriage" at the moment, giving all the rights and benefits of heterosexual marriage.<<<

I don't understand your argument here. Are you opposed to the use of word "marriage?" to describe civil unions?


>>That is not enough for the activists, who want Christian marriage re-defined to accommodate what most Christians see as a perversion.<<<

Most Christans, for now, maybe but that is changing especially with the Pope and the leaders of many more progressive denominations preaching tolerance and acceptance.

>>>Are you trying to say that Christians or anyone else for that matter have no right to oppose legislation which seeks to legitimise behaviour associated with huge rates of sexually transmitted disease on one hand and contradicts the teachings of the Christian rule book on the other........you are an ideologue of the worst type.<<<

I think you have a punctuation problem here. But I agree if there are people telling churches what to believe that is wrong, But the flip side is that churches have no business telling monogamous gay couples living as a family that they are not married. I also believe that you are on very shaky ground in implying that Gays living in monogamous, state sanctioned, unions increase the spread of AIDs. Next to celibacy is obviously the most effective way to prevent any STD.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 05:48 PM

>>Well bugger off then.

Come on, Joe asked me to be nice. I was! Not one reference in that limerick about Seaman Stains, Jerk the Sea Cadet, Whacko Jacko or Spunky Jack.

Must be getting soft in my old age.

Anyway, why start provocative threads just to get indignant about the reaction? You should be thanking us for feeding your masochistic streak. Your fascination with " militant atheism " seems to be getting the reaction you keep asking for. <<

I did not start this thread or any other to provoke. This thread and the vast majority of the threads about Militant Atheism were started by Stringsinger. But he hasn't broken any rules. He isn't deliberately defying Max and the moderators to see just how much he can get away with. Click on "Membership." What is not allowed is clearly and simply presented.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 05:38 PM

Ian, I do not recognise the term "worm", it was evident whom you were addressing by the contents of your post. If you want to continue to make a fool of yourself, carry on.
Homosexuals can avail themselves of civil "marriage" at the moment, giving all the rights and benefits of heterosexual marriage.
That is not enough for the activists, who want Christian marriage re-defined to accommodate what most Christians see as a perversion.
Are you trying to say that Christians or anyone else for that matter have no right to oppose legislation which seeks to legitimise behaviour associated with huge rates of sexually transmitted disease on one hand and contradicts the teachings of the Christian rule book on the other........you are an ideologue of the worst type.

I am at present an atheist, but am probably in the process of change, these threads have opened my eyes to which section of the community is REALLY harking back to the dark ages...and beyond.
It is obvious that our modern society requires a moral compass more than ever.

Joe, I must agree with Jack here, do you really want to see the forum degenerate into a mess of abuse such as we see here?
It would be easy, if we were so minded, for any of us to adopt Ian's approach which is intimidation and abuse in place of reasoned argument.
Every post from Ian to myself, or most other members with whom he disagrees, contains personal insults


There are several people here who have behaved in a devious and sometimes insulting manner to me personally, if I were to use Ian's MO, the forum would be a battleground....stupid and aggressive, well, that is what is happening slowly but surely, personal abuse is becoming acceptable......a geriatric Facebook?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 05:31 PM

Well bugger off then.

Come on, Joe asked me to be nice. I was! Not one reference in that limerick about Seaman Stains, Jerk the Sea Cadet, Whacko Jacko or Spunky Jack.

Must be getting soft in my old age.

Anyway, why start provocative threads just to get indignant about the reaction? You should be thanking us for feeding your masochistic streak. Your fascination with " militant atheism " seems to be getting the reaction you keep asking for.

I say you are in breach of the rules. I've never read the buggers you understand but surely your provocative blundering is at least as bad as my piss taking? Not a problem. It isn't wrong to lie to Christians is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 04:52 PM

>>RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,troll replacing the troll who is not a troll - PM
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 04:04 PM

Come on Jerk!!! get a life for yourself you salt stained charleton.

Come on fess up!! apart from your obvious false pretensions as a mariner and your pathetic attempts at the pseudo intellect..the only thing you are really good at is aresole creeping, toadying, brown nosing elves and the ultra critique of your betters, like me and sweet cheeks muskett. <<

blatent disrespect for the rules and for all other members of this forum.

I think we deserve better than having this forum be a playground for serial trolls.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 04:05 PM

"From: Joe Offer - PM
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 02:31 AM

I liked the limerick, Musket, despite myself - but I still think you should be nicer....

-Joe- "

This is very counterproductive. He doesn't need to be "nicer." He needs to follow the rules. The limerick was unkind, impolite and designed to provoke an argument.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,troll replacing the troll who is not a troll
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 04:04 PM

Come on Jerk!!! get a life for yourself you salt stained charleton.

Come on fess up!! apart from your obvious false pretensions as a mariner and your pathetic attempts at the pseudo intellect..the only thing you are really good at is aresole creeping, toadying, brown nosing elves and the ultra critique of your betters, like me and sweet cheeks muskett.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 02:44 PM

>>From: GUEST,Musket - PM
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 02:03 PM

Oy worm.

Jerk. Give me a list of these here rules will you? I want to see how many I can break in one paragraph, and relate them all to you.<<<

Max he is mocking your rules.


Musket. I've told you where the rules were and posted them in several thread. Go to the homepage of Mudcat and click on "membership" if you want to see them again.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 02:40 PM

You know Joe a few people egged on Martin Gibson. You said that I was squealing like a stuck pig when I got tired of him calling my wife names not acceptable anywhere and I started pointing out JUST HOW MUCH, he was insulting people. Ultimately Gibson got banned, but your turning the focus on his victims for pointing out his incivility delayed that day for far too long.

You can complain all you want about people being uncivil, but when you encourage that with a wink, you undermine your own words and efforts of the "mudelves" to enforce what are pretty simple and clear rules. Should be nicer is your judgement but that post and that limmerick clearly violate the rules that Max posted.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 02:03 PM

Oy worm. Nobody is redefining Christian marriage. Christians don't have the monopoly on marriage and if anybody says gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry, they are showing their crass bigotry and awful attitude. An attitude that has no place in respectable society. You say you aren't religious, so claiming you shouldn't be ashamed of your odious view on the basis Christians share it is beneath contempt. Marriage is open to all. Praise Clapton!

This summer, we are guests at a gay wedding. Two lots of ruddy pressies as we were at their civil partnership bash.... Guess what? They are both Christians and attend church for that matter.

Jerk. Give me a list of these here rules will you? I want to see how many I can break in one paragraph, and relate them all to you. Anyway, didn't you like the limerick? I don't write poetry for any silly sausage you know. You are in an exclusive club. Only you and Goofus to date.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 01:49 PM

>>From: GUEST,Musket - PM
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 11:18 AM

I suppose acknowledging "worm" as meaning him is a start.<<

Is a clear violation of the terms of use. It is argumentative and unkind.


>>Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,troll replacing the troll who is not a troll - PM
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 11:17 AM

Ah.. it was getting good for a while ..old barnacle balls biting nicely..me sweet baby musket showing his usual extremely excellent sense of humour and scholastic and artistic ability with that rather fine Limerick..But Lo!! what happened.. back to the usual back biting and slanging match by the thumb up bum and crayon brigade ..lol..<<

Also unkind and argumentative.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 01:35 PM

Date: 12 Jan 14 - 02:11 AM post from Guest, Musket is in flagrant violation of the terms of use.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 01:12 PM

Worldwide, most ordinary Christians IMO, see homosexuality as a "perversion" and this is the reason they are opposed to the redefinition of Christian marriage.
The fact that we happen to live in the "liberal" West, does not automatically make us superior in religious matters or thought
Christianity did after all originate in the East.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 12:22 PM

Muskbutt: "The moral right to influence politics, things which affect people who don't share your beliefs starts with stating what is, in this case Christian, and what isn't.
As it stands, without the likes of The Pope or Archbishop of Canterbury disowning their radical fringe, I cannot see where the moral authority is to be anything other than irrelevant?"

What does the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury have to do with 'Spirituality'???..That's like saying politics has something to do with 'Freedom'!

Those are just organizations who co-opt people whose interest lies in those things, but steer them away FROM 'Freedom' and/or 'Spirituality' into exploiting them for power through manipulations!

Jesus was talking about love, and loving your brother, because under it all we are really one living organism....Politicians preach division, so they can structure their own power base.

Methinks atheism is just a backlash AGAINST those 'religious' structures, rather than God...by God's definition!
Neither religious 'leaders' nor politicians, represent the heart of their followers. History CLEARLY teaches us that!.....(but then, history also teaches us that man never learns from history!).

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 11:18 AM

I suppose acknowledging "worm" as meaning him is a start.

I was thinking of a more correct example of the word "stereotype." The best I can think of is when some fool or other says all gay people are perverts. Another could be use of parentheses to come up with gay "marriage."

Regarding Joe's statement that it is close to bigotry to condemn a whole group on the basis of a lunatic fringe, this seems logical until the whole group wish to influence others. The moral right to influence politics, things which affect people who don't share your beliefs starts with stating what is, in this case Christian, and what isn't.

As it stands, without the likes of The Pope or Archbishop of Canterbury disowning their radical fringe, I cannot see where the moral authority is to be anything other than irrelevant?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,troll replacing the troll who is not a troll
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 11:17 AM

Ah.. it was getting good for a while ..old barnacle balls biting nicely..me sweet baby musket showing his usual extremely excellent sense of humour and scholastic and artistic ability with that rather fine Limerick..But Lo!! what happened.. back to the usual back biting and slanging match by the thumb up bum and crayon brigade ..lol..


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Stu
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 11:16 AM

"I suppose that the next logical thing to do, is to ask whether the larger group should be held to blame for the actions of its extremists, its militants. I think not."

I think not too, and as people can subscribe to more than one worldview (such as scientists with a faith) the argument is revealed for what it is: a rather clumsy attempt to promote a reductionist viewpoint to support the arguer's own personal view. All organisations, whether an established religion, political party, scientific society or local charity are microcosms of wider society and the intrigues, existence of internal factions and the dominance of the odd megalomaniac are all part of how we as a species work together. It's all transient anyway.

For what it's worth, I think people are fundamentally good and do have the best interests of others at heart. The Fred Phelps/Taliban/Militant/Dawkins literalists/fundamentalists/ideologues tend to be rather unsophisticated souls with a high tolerance of violence and an ego the size of Greenland; shouters and sowers of discord rather than the more reflective, considerate majority. These people exist in any section of society, not just religion.

There's just one thing that bothers me though. If you are religious, isn't your default position that everyone who doesn't follow your particular creed is wrong? If you truly adhere to C of E (for example) teachings then all Shinto priests, Catholic Cardinals, Buddhist Rinpoches, Siberian Shamans etc etc must be wrong. Christ said the only way to God is through him, so doesn't that supersede all that old testament lunacy such as the stoning of people for calling mum and dad, marrying your sister and murdering one of the kids etc? So that means only Christians can be correct (from a Christian viewpoint?).

I could be wrong about any of these religions (I'm what you might call a scientific agnostic) so perhaps when I meet St Peter he'll have a few stern words for me (or if Tibetan Buddhism is the true religion then we can all whine about how we were misled as we walk the world as hungry ghosts). I'm not sure I would like to have to judge people like that.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 10:43 AM

I think it is dangerously close to bigotry to condemn an entire group the the actions of its lunatic fringe

That's not what I'm doing, Joe - read my post again.

I feel no need to condemn the anti-homosexual activities of the Westboro Baptist Church.

Ah but Joe, its hardly just the Westboro jackasses, no?

that doesn't give you cause to condemn me as anti-homosexual unless I have done something myself to deserve that title.

1. No, but it gives me the right to condemn someone that DOESN'T do something, as in "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

2. Joe, this isn't about you personally.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 08:38 AM

"Tell you what, whilst you are waffling on about me being some lackey or other for plutocrats, the likes of the worm or Pharoh as some call him, reckon I'm a sandal wearing tree hugging loony leftist."

So you think that is my opinion of you Ian? :0)

I have a little respect for "loony left tree huggers", they are real people with emotion and empathy with nature....the sincere ones.

On the other hand, I know exactly what you are, you make your personality clearer with every post you deliver.

I'm afraid you are a common stereotype....and the irony is, your "raison detre" is to stereotype every other person or alternative view that you encounter.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 06:28 AM

Most reckon I am nice Joe. No idea if they are right of course...

As I have said before, when some people on here insult others without knowing it or failing to take it into account, I don my BatMan outfit and right wrongs in the best Hollywood tradition. The only exception being the man behind Akenaton. Some attitudes shouldn't be encouraged by making light of them. I mean every single word there. The others I could probably argue the toss with a smile over a pint or bottle.

Or few.

Strangely, some still think their outrageous behaviour is ok. I know mine is beyond the pail (pale, let's not go there!)


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