BS: Unarmed soldier killed, (London-May 2013)

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 06:15 AM

You and your little band of brothers have chosen to do that - I would revisit your rant if I were you.

Assuming that was addressed at me Jim, what rant? Examples please. Just find some details of where I have been Islamophobic. I suspect that you will not post any because there are none so you will make it up.

Your buddy took it a step further by claiming that degeneracy was "implanted" in "all male Muslim Pakistanis

First thing, I would not know Keith if I fell over him and there is plenty I would disagree with him on. But he has nothing of the kind on this thread. As I said earlier, it is obviously something personal.

the patent lesson that Islam should never have been allowed a foothold here to preach its poisonous [and filthy-mannered] doctrine that, now they are here & have taken over some of our cities

Is that a quote from this thread or by any Mudcatter, Jim. Have you taken to attributing random quotes to people to try and win some sort of battle. Tilting at Windmill's Jim.

Once more, for the record. I have nothing whatsoever against Moslems, Christians or even Conservative that leave us in peace. I am against anyone who will kill innocent people and try to inflict their views on me violently. Anyone regardless of race, colour, creed or politics. Simple.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 05:36 AM

Making the murder a religious issue

The alleged killers, and others like Choudhary did that.
attempt to show that that religion provides the incentive for such acts

They did that too.

Your buddy took it a step further by claiming that degeneracy was "implanted" in "all male Muslim Pakistanis" - can't say clearer than that.

The claim that it came from culture was not made by me.
I knew nothing about the culture. I merely reported the claim.
Will you ever stop shooting the messenger Jim?

We all accept that the majority of Muslims are good.
Does that preclude any discussion arising from the actions of those who are not?

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 05:15 AM

"people who disagree with you must be hate-mongers? "
Lest we forget
"the patent lesson that Islam should never have been allowed a foothold here to preach its poisonous [and filthy-mannered] doctrine that, now they are here & have taken over some of our cities [Luton; Bradford...]"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 02:52 AM

"Maybe on par with those who criticise Islamist atrocities as Islamophobes, eh Jim? "
You and your little band of brothers have chosen to do that - I would revisit your rant if I were you.
Making the murder a religious issue is to smear everybody who follows that religion with that murder, and to then attempt to show that that religion provides the incentive for such acts confirms that this is your claim.
Your buddy took it a step further by claiming that degeneracy was "implanted" in "all male Muslim Pakistanis" - can't say clearer than that.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 12:44 AM

Kevin ~~ I thought someone might ask that. It is an extreme act of antisemitism to tell a jew what he has got to think because of who he happens to be. It infuriates. It's patronising and stereotyping. Stereotyping is the first stage in any discrimination. "Ah, an Italian; he must be a coward'; "A Spaniard; he must be lazy"; "An Irishman, ; be must be charming but belligerent""; "A Jew; he must have a chip on his shoulder about golf clubs"...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 09:00 PM

Hear, Hear!

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 06:47 PM

What on earth was antisemitic about that post by Don, Michael?   Drawing attention to the parallels between antisemitism directed at Jews and the same kind of intolerance directed at Muslims is hardly antisemitic - if anything it's the reverse the reverse, since it implicitly classes both kinds of intolerance as being despicable.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 03:55 PM

I'm 100% sure that the world will be a better place when humans are content to just VISIT other nations as respectful tourists.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 02:34 PM

The only anti-Semites in these discussions are those who described criticism of Israeli atrocities as "Antisemitic"

Maybe on par with those who criticise Islamist atrocities as Islamophobes, eh Jim?

And is that seriously the best you can do? Just propagating the lie that people who disagree with you must be hate-mongers? Surely you are better than that - Or at least have been in the past. I guess there may be some personal issues involved here.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 01:39 PM

"Noticed it more than once with Jim; bobad."
The only anti-Semites in these discussions are those who described criticism of Israeli atrocities as "Antisemitic" - thus identifying them as actions of the Jewish people - your ancestors must be very proud of you Mike.
Sorry to interrupt - carry on hating.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 12:07 PM

Noticed it more than once with Jim; bobad. Can't recall an instance with Don before. Still; there u go!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: bobad
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 10:42 AM

"More grieved than I can express to find him playing the antisemitic card."

If you're grieved you haven't been paying attention Mike. He has been called out for it more than once. A leopard can't change it's spots.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: bobad
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 10:36 AM

An article by Raheel Raza, another Muslim for whom I have much admiration: Combating political Islam

"The West must now use its friends, progressive Muslims and the State of Israel, to determine a clear strategy for dealing with Islamism. Progressive Muslims, like myself, have tried to inform our governments about what they are up against. After 9/11, we called for recognition of the true enemy, a violent ideology which could not be fought with weapons of mass destruction. However, multiculturalism and political correctness kept sidelining the real issues, with any critique of Islamism bringing accusations of racism and Islamophobia."

"The weeding out of Islamism and the Islamist threat lodged inside the West is the essential prerequisite, or the first step, in defeating global jihadi warfare of Islamists and in helping the Muslim world reconcile itself with the modern values of science, democracy and human rights.

To do this, we need to follow the lead of our Israeli allies and look with clear eyes into the nature of political Islam and have a frank conversation without fear of political correctness."

Since Raheel, her colleague Tarek Fatah, myself, Keith, Mike, Dave etc. have the same opinion of and share a loathing for Islamism then I suppose by the criteria of our resident apologists they too are Islamophobes.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 09:49 AM

Re Don's post of 0640 am.

More grieved than I can express to find him playing the antisemitic card.

I know I said I had no more to say to him on this issue.

But after that gratuitous piece of irrelevant origin-throwing, I must just add

YOU UNSPEAKABLE SWINE, DON

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 09:03 AM

From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 09:42 AM

400
Alibhai-Brown.
Ugandan-born British journalist and author of Indian descent. Currently a regular columnist for The Independent and the Evening Standard,[1] she is a well-known commentator on issues of immigration, diversity and multiculturalism.[2][3] She is a founder member of British Muslims for Secular Democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: bobad
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 09:01 AM

I have posted many articles, comments and links by a friend, Tarek Fatah. He is a Muslim who has made it his task to counter Islamist extremism and extremists which he does out of a love for his religion and the desire to not have it perverted by those who would invoke it as sanction for their terrorism. He is a native of Pakistan who now lives in Canada. He was imprisoned in Pakistan for his leftist politics and cannot return to his homeland without arrest and re-imprisonment. He lives under constant threat of death from fellow Muslims who consider him an enemy to them and their fundamentalist beliefs.

The likes of our apologists would call him an Islamophobe.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 09:00 AM

From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 09:50 AM

This is from BBC site about Ahmed.

I would like to be told who knows more about British Pakistanis, working class or not, than he does.

Not you anyway Lox.
What else can you do but walk?

The peer also openly clashed with his party's leadership in October 2006 when he openly criticised the way British Muslims were treated.

He told the BBC there was "a constant theme of demonisation of the Muslim community" and that politicians were jumping on a bandwagon by "having a go" at Muslims.

He said people were exploiting the fact that some within the Muslim community threatened national security.

Property developer

As a high-profile leader of the Muslim community, Lord Ahmed has played a role in easing tensions after the London bombings in July 2005 and the 9/11 attacks on the US in 2001.

Three months after 9/11 he hit the headlines after claiming the government had tapped his phone because of his opposition to the war in Afghanistan.

It was a claim the government denied.

Lord Ahmed, 51, was born in Pakistan but has lived in Rotherham, in South Yorkshire, since his childhood.

He studied public administration at Sheffield Hallam University and joined the Labour Party at the age of 18.

Having distinguished himself as a proactive local councillor, he founded the British Muslim Councillors' Forum in 1992 and became a Justice of the Peace in the same year.

He was appointed to the House of Lords in 1998 as Baron Ahmed of Rotherham after several years as chairman of the South Yorkshire Labour Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 08:40 AM

Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 07 Feb 13 - 10:21 AM

the indiscriminate (yes, Keith) slaughter of civilians.

You need to justify that outrageous accusation.

The massacres (of Muslims) you refer to were committed by (Christian) Lebanese militia,

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 08:34 AM

Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 03 Jun 13 - 09:03 AM

There might be more kindness (from Muslims) in return were it not for fear of reprisal.
It is not healthy to be seen helping a Jew in many places.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 08:30 AM

Here is a post about a whole Muslim community who were the victims of persecution by Christians.
British troops were sent as pat of NATO to their aid.
[PM] Keith A of Hertford        BS: British Army at it again (148* d)        BS: British Army at it again        01 Mar 07

Hundreds of British troops have had to be sent home from Bosnia.
They and other EU forces are no longer needed to keep the peace and rebuild.
The Muslim people NATO moved in to protect are now secure.
And not a drop of oil in the place.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 08:16 AM

...and one other thing (Sound like Columbo now!) You cannot prove that someone hates another because they have never said anything good about them.

I have never said anything good about Lithuanians, Elephants, Seventh-Day adventists, The Stone Roses, pencil manufacturers or Bolivian unicyclists. Doesn't mean that I hate them all. Well, maybe some...

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 08:12 AM

Sorry, Don. You cannot answer my request to find examples by suggesting that I do the same. Makes you look like a politician squirming to avoid the issue.

Let's put it another way. Provide proof that any of the members you mention have posted that they either hate Moslems or show me where they are inciting other members to do so and I will accept your promise. Until then, innocent until proven guilty. Surely everyone has that right.

Keith and Bobad, don't feel obliged, I will stand by my point above but, to, hopefuly, finalise the issue would you like to post a link or comment on a Moslem who is not a bad guy?

Here is mine - http://www.yusufislam.com/


Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: bobad
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 08:05 AM

So you see Dave this is how he responds to your challenge, he knows he can't provide an example so he tells you to look for one yourself. Perfectly illustrative of the bankruptcy of his position - unable to counter facts and figures he resorts to smear and slander as if that makes his case.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 07:45 AM

I suggest you go back and look at the responses of Keith A and Bobad (not Bobert Keith. Do try to keep up) in every thread about Muslims, and you will see a pattern.

The Muslims are always criminals, warmongers, terrorists or sex abusers of white girls.

Try to find a post anywhere by these two in which the Muslim isn't the bad guy.

Good luck with that DtG. You may have let yourself in for a few months of searching.

Don .

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 06:57 AM

Don. Give us examples of any of the members you mention either saying that they hate every Muslim or believe that all Muslims are hate inspired terrorists or encouraging anyone else to say or do the same. You can't becauae the evidence does not support that scenario.

I have also said that it was Moslem preachers that encouraged the young men in question to commit these acts. I have also said that the young men themselves were Islamic terrorists. They were and, as far as I know, would have continued to be so if they had not have been stopped. Does that mean that you think I am also a hate-filled right-wing radical?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: bobad
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 06:54 AM

"Still, why not follow the lead of Keith A and Bobad and paint the whole Muslim population of this country (in fact the world) as religiously inspired terrorists?

They've already, so it seems, converted Mike to their "hate every Muslim" religion."

A typically brainless DonT comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 06:50 AM

Still, why not follow the lead of Keith A and Bobad and paint the whole Muslim population of this country (in fact the world) as religiously inspired terrorists?

Not true Don.
I have never suggested anything like that and it is not the view of any reasonable person, least of all Bobert or me.
Why the need to lie Don. (" instead of actually engaging, point by point, with the arguments I have postulated.")

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 06:50 AM

No-one on this thread seems to be talking about immigration or jobs being taken.

It was directed at David WAV with his tiresome comments on 'economic immigration' & linking that to terrorism & the overall Islamophobic tone of this thread, rabid dogs & all! Most people, it would seem, just want a peaceful life.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 06:46 AM

Mrs Cheema QC, Prosecutor said the group set out their intentions in a 'chilling' document called Operation in Defence of the Prophet Muhammad.
It called the Queen a 'female devil' and accused her of 'fooling a nation of blind sheep to your self-proclaimed royalty and majesty' by holding the Diamond Jubilee celebrations. Addressing the EDL, it said: 'We love death more than you love life. You are a people who are worse than animals. The penalty for blasphemy of Allah and his Messenger Muhammad is death.'

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 06:40 AM

""What was it that you found offensive Don? Was it the Muslim protesters proclaiming their hatred for the country that gave them sanctuary or was it the English lady who dared challenge their extremist proclamations?""

A typically brainless Bobad comment.

The protesters were indeed offensive, and the lady who stood up to them showed great courage and forbearance.

She was luckier than a Muslim woman would have been, if confronting a bunch of our home grown EDL thugs. They would be much less likely to confine themselves to verbal abuse.

Still, why not follow the lead of Keith A and Bobad and paint the whole Muslim population of this country (in fact the world) as religiously inspired terrorists?

They've already, so it seems, converted Mike to their "hate every Muslim" religion.

Shit, why don't we round 'em all up and send 'em packing. After all, it's not like we need all those doctors and nurses, shopkeepers who are open till 11pm, bus drivers, cleaners etc. Haven't we got hundreds of good law abiding white folk just itching to do those jobs?

Well NO!! We bloody well haven't!

So how about returning to something like sanity and recognising that we have to control the extremists, both Muslim and Christian (or what passes for it), and to do that, we need the help of the wider settled Muslim community.

Turning them into enemies by our knee jerk reactions isn't the way to achieve that.

A good start would be to purge our own extremist "Imams", who are busy radicalising British youth to burn mosques.

And Mike, I would have thought your attitude would be more tolerant. You are old enough to remember the time when just being Jewish was a bar to membership of golf clubs, country clubs, and many other institutions.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 06:34 AM

Times yesterday.
A gang of Islamic extremists who plotted a bomb and gun attack against the English Defence League hoped to cause a "tit-for-tat spiral of violence", a court heard yesterday.
The leader of the six men, who have pleaded guilty to planning a terror attack on an EDL rally during the Queen's Diamond Jubilee, had been under the surveillance of M15.
But the gang was stopped, travelling back from the rally of the far-Right group with two shotguns, swords, knives, a nail bomb and a pipe bomb.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 05:38 AM

I did think it was you, Fred, but thanks for confirming it. Good post too on how we all should act. I was at the local park last night with the Grandkids, paddling in the pool and generally having the fun that 2 and 4 years old do :-) It was wonderful to see how all the kids accepted each other, played with each other and, apart from the odd spat of "That's MY boat!", got on so well. They were all colours and, I guess, all creeds. If only we could all keep that attitude when we grow up it would solve a lot of problems. Maybe I never grew up which is why I find it difficult to dislike people on racial or religious grounds. Don't get me wrong, I dislike a people who rub me up the wrong way (That's MY boat!) but it is never at first sight or to do with how they look, speak or think.

But if it is an Islamic terrorist that steals my boat I will say as much. Just as I would say if it was a right-wing extremist. The criminal class seems to have no boundries and will use any excuse to justify their actions. It is up to the ordinary people who they claim to support to stop them.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 05:30 AM

I am sure we all feel the same Fred, but we are discussing what to do about the threat posed by Islamism.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 05:19 AM

Sorry folks. I've just realised that my reply to Dave the Gnome was sent anonymously. It was entirely unintentional, I assure you.

"See, it works both ways". Of course it does, that is what my posting was all about. Personally I look forward to the day when people the world over are valued as people. Not black or white or Jews or Christians or Catholics or Protestants or Muslims or gays or straights or travellers or whoever. Just people. Maybe that's a lot to ask, considering how many bigots the world has produced, but it has to be preferable to sitting back and watching the human race tear itself apart.

If we could just make people realise that beneath the huge variety of social cultures which characterise the human race, we are all the one species; that the human race laughs and cries and fucks and fights, and feels and expresses the same emotions the world over, then perhaps we could discover one simple truth. Namely, that if you hurt me, then I will feel the same pain - emotional and/or physical - that you would feel if I hurt you.

I would rather go down that road than the one which the nutters of the far right and extreme Islam are hell bent on pushing us into.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 05:14 AM

Saw it days ago, Blandiver. It has been around on Facebook for a while. I don't understand what it has to do with this though. No-one on this thread seems to be talking about immigration or jobs being taken. For what it is worth, I agree entirely with the principle expounded by the young lady in the clip but I am pretty sure she doesn't mention terrorism.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: GUEST,Guest who shall remain gormless
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 04:22 AM

"I cannot understand the hypocrisy that, quite rightly, condemns the extremists of the right wing, yet excuses the violence of the extremists claiming to represent Islam. All violent extremism is wrong. Why can some people not understand that if I condemn the perpetrators of this latest atrocity as Islamist terrorists without being an Islamophobe. I will also condemn the violent extremists of the right as English nutters, but that does not make me anti-English either. Neither of my condemnations mean I am against a whole race or religion. Just anti-violence and with the peaceful majority."

In a nutshell dave.
Brilliant.

You can rest your case.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 04:17 AM

David WAV - ditch the specious rhetoric & have a look at this:

Mathematics - Spoken Word by Hollie McNish

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 03:56 AM

Yay. Looks as if you might have been right about that after all, Keith.

Pity!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 03:32 AM

I cannot understand the hypocrisy that, quite rightly, condemns the extremists of the right wing, yet excuses the violence of the extremists claiming to represent Islam. All violent extremism is wrong. Why can some people not understand that if I condemn the perpetrators of this latest atrocity as Islamist terrorists without being an Islamophobe. I will also condemn the violent extremists of the right as English nutters, but that does not make me anti-English either. Neither of my condemnations mean I am against a whole race or religion. Just anti-violence and with the peaceful majority.

Just idle speculation on my part I suspect. As I said earlier, there is no reasoning with the unreasonable.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 02:46 AM

As I said, the two are as one.
Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 01:52 AM

From: Don(Wyziwyg)T - PM
Date: 06 Jun 13 - 07:45 PM
""I expect Don will see this as further evidence of my imagined imminent application to join the EDL. Others less tunnel-visioned by their conditioning, which even a man of his apparent intelligence seems unable to break out of, will recognise the truth of what I have said.""
Now, where and when have we seen the followers of a religion used as a bogeyman to arouse fear and hatred in a population before?
I would have thought that Mike would be the very last to follow that model!
.,,.
""He still remains oddly cagey about whether he actually dared to watch that Luton demo video; or to report, if so, how he reacted to it.
Why so, I wonder?""
He watched it, end to end, and found it just as offensive as most of your recent posts Mike.
See my last post for the reason!
Don T.
.,,.,..,
I would have thought Don would have been the last person so hidebound by his conditioned preconceptions as so wilfully to misinterpret what has been, IMO & with all due modesty, quite clearly stated.

No-one is 'using {all] the followers of a religion as a bogeyman'; only a minute but unhappily prominent & effective segment from within the followers of a religion. You know that, Don; don't pretend you don't. This constantly adduced but weary old argument that most Muslims aren't Islamists makes as much sense as to urge, when a hydrophobic dog is on the loose, that there is no need for alarm because the vast majority of dogs are not hydrophobic.
& you have seen that programme, then? So you will appreciate that there may in fact be a fair element of the 'bogeyman' in the population of a town where there is a high proportion of the followers of a religion concentrated [14.6% acc to wikipedia].

But the thing that I really would not have expected from Don is that he would have resorted to name-calling ['EDL', 'offensive' ...] instead of actually engaging, point by point, with the arguments I have postulated. Try reading my last few posts again, Don, with as much objectivity which the natural distaste your conditioning and preconceptions will allow [more than they have allowed so far, that is to say!]. Till then, I regret we can have no more to say to one another on this topic.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: bobad
Date: 06 Jun 13 - 08:04 PM

What was it that you found offensive Don? Was it the Muslim protesters proclaiming their hatred for the country that gave them sanctuary or was it the English lady who dared challenge their extremist proclamations?

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Jun 13 - 07:48 PM

""He still remains oddly cagey about whether he actually dared to watch that Luton demo video; or to report, if so, how he reacted to it.
Why so, I wonder?""

He watched it, end to end, and found it just as offensive as most of your recent posts Mike.

See my last post for the reason!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Jun 13 - 07:45 PM

""I expect Don will see this as further evidence of my imagined imminent application to join the EDL. Others less tunnel-visioned by their conditioning, which even a man of his apparent intelligence seems unable to break out of, will recognise the truth of what I have said.""

Now, where and when have we seen the followers of a religion used as a bogeyman to arouse fear and hatred in a population before?

I would have thought that Mike would be the very last to follow that model!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Jun 13 - 07:38 PM

""Is that your idea of a proper response,

How can you dare even ask?!""

Given your attitude to Muslims, asking is unnecessary!

Mike however is usually less biased.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 Jun 13 - 06:07 PM

'economic immigration' - we've had immigrants pouring in for several years now, principally to take up jobs that nobody here wanted to do. The Poles, Lithuanians, Chinese, West Indians (many of whom worked for London Transport) Phillippinos (nursing and care work) etc etc, all have contributed a great deal to our country. None of these seem to have turned into terrorists. Even Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrants are largely good people with strong family ethics and a moral, law-abiding way of life. It must be remembered that the dangerous fundamentalist 'Islamists' are a small but vociferous minority. The threat they represent is not IMO a result of increased numbers of immigrants. And the 'born-and-bred here' brigade, the EDL, BNP etc, are just as much a threat to our stability and peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jun 13 - 04:41 PM

The main cause of terrorism is economic immigration; Blair got making-us-safer all wrong: invading another nation whilst stepping up immigration to record levels.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jun 13 - 03:43 PM

It does seem to be a smaller proportion of the white community who have extreme views.
The much hyped BNP demo on Saturday in London drew about 150 from the entire country.

That one off in Luton had about 2000 for no special occasion.

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jun 13 - 03:08 PM

David Cameron a couple of years ago: "The multicultural state has failed"; it's our world/our United Nations that should be multicultural (http://www.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse/blog/325979229).

Subject: RE: BS: Unarmed soldier killed, Woolwich (London)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jun 13 - 02:21 PM

I presume Guest was you, Fred - Was it? Anyhow - What concerns me is the fact that an anti-Muslim backlash would bring the house down around the ears of all the decent law abiding Muslims, who go about their daily business and have no truck with Islamic extremists.

What concerns me more is that an anti-Western backlash is bringing the house down around the ears of decent law-abiding Englishmen who go about their daily business and have no truck with right-wing extremists.

See, it works both ways. You cannot defend the rights of one group but say another do not deserve it. I have as much right to a quiet life as any Moslem but it seems I cannot have it while you defend the rights of some groups but not others. Why is that?

Cheers

DtG