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Phil Ochs - paid agitator?

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GUEST,Janie 24 May 13 - 11:49 AM
GUEST 24 May 13 - 12:05 PM
Elmore 24 May 13 - 12:56 PM
GUEST,mando-player-91 24 May 13 - 01:03 PM
maeve 24 May 13 - 01:08 PM
Jeri 24 May 13 - 01:11 PM
pdq 24 May 13 - 01:24 PM
Bettynh 24 May 13 - 01:25 PM
Elmore 24 May 13 - 02:28 PM
GUEST 24 May 13 - 03:28 PM
Elmore 24 May 13 - 09:31 PM
Joe Offer 24 May 13 - 09:41 PM
Jim Carroll 25 May 13 - 03:02 AM
The Sandman 25 May 13 - 03:51 AM
GUEST,Arkie 25 May 13 - 10:53 AM
Greg F. 25 May 13 - 11:18 AM
EBarnacle 25 May 13 - 12:41 PM
GUEST,D. Gosser 25 May 13 - 03:27 PM
Joe Offer 25 May 13 - 03:38 PM
Dave Hanson 25 May 13 - 03:53 PM
GUEST 25 May 13 - 04:22 PM
Bettynh 25 May 13 - 04:42 PM
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Subject: Phil Ochs
From: GUEST,Janie
Date: 24 May 13 - 11:49 AM

Hi everyone!
   I grew up being sung Phil Ochs songs and he was considered a hero among people with good politics. But recently I've seen allegations that he may have begun his career as a paid agitator/informant and was used to infiltrate the left/Yippies/etc.
   This would be terrible if true. I don't want to believe it - but some of the information comes from an old friend of Phil's. Here is a discussion of some of it: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10194
   What does everyone here think?

Janie


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 13 - 12:05 PM

Looks like classic conspiracy theory ramblings.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Elmore
Date: 24 May 13 - 12:56 PM

Janie: Check out his sister's web site. Maybe you could e-mail Sonny and find out what she has to say. That would be interesting.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: GUEST,mando-player-91
Date: 24 May 13 - 01:03 PM

Righhhhttttt...


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: maeve
Date: 24 May 13 - 01:08 PM

http://www.sonnyochs.com/


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Jeri
Date: 24 May 13 - 01:11 PM

Not our Janie, are ye, Old Hoss...


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: pdq
Date: 24 May 13 - 01:24 PM

People with nothing better to talk about have claimed that numerous counterculture heros were related to CIA agents or worked as spies for the DOD.

Some of the names that have been raised are John Phillips, David Crosby, Phil Ochs, Leonard Cohen, Gram Parsons and Stephen Stills.

Some of them are/were simply gun owners and defenders of the 2nd Amendment.

Phip Ochs died totally insane. That was almost 40 years ago. Let it go.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Bettynh
Date: 24 May 13 - 01:25 PM

Folks in the USA can decide for themselves by watching this fine PBS documentary..


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Elmore
Date: 24 May 13 - 02:28 PM

Maeve: thanks for the blue clicky. Elmore, the Luddite


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 13 - 03:28 PM

Looks like bullshit to me.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Elmore
Date: 24 May 13 - 09:31 PM

Tell you what. Phil was one of my favorite song writers, but he was a big time b.s. artist. He once told my friend Camille that he was into folk music for the money. She believed him.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 May 13 - 09:41 PM

Yeah, I think rather than looking into all sorts of dirt, it's better to just look at his songs and decide for yourself whether you liked them. I like a lot of his songs, but his "Changes" is just sublime. Phil's sister Sonny Ochs has built a wonderful tribute Website.

I watched the American Masters show on Phil Ochs today, and it was terrific. No, he was not perfect - but he wrote a number of near-perfect songs. What more can we ask?

Oh...and American Masters had a show this week on Mel Brooks. I think I like Mel Brooks even better than I like Phil Ochs.


-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs - paid agitator?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 May 13 - 03:02 AM

I saw Phil Ochs give forth with a right-wing rant at a CND (Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament) concert he had been booked to perform at in London - always put it down to a 'right-wing rant.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs - paid agitator?
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 May 13 - 03:51 AM

since joe gormley and ray buckton, NUM and ASLEF union leaders respectively were reporting back to MI5 during the 1973 miners strike,Iwould say it is not impossible


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs - paid agitator?
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 25 May 13 - 10:53 AM

Could the shift in politics be due to a severely addled brain.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs - paid agitator?
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 May 13 - 11:18 AM

What do I think?

I think its absolute bullshit, and a real disservice to Phil & his family.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs - paid agitator?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 25 May 13 - 12:41 PM

As others have said above, check with Sonny. If anyone would know and be in a position to verify, she would.
Jim is also an old friend and he was extremely close to Phil. After Phil's death Sonny gave him Phil's guitar as a gift.
As has been said, Phil is also known for carrying a joke for a very long time. The only way you will ever know for sure is by doing a Freedom of Information Act request for the info from the CIA and FBI and hoping it does not get too heavily redacted.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs - paid agitator?
From: GUEST,D. Gosser
Date: 25 May 13 - 03:27 PM

What are the facts? An old allegation made about a person who died almost 30 years ago, with no facts to back it up. But look at the entire history and body of work and action of Ochs, including extensive interview with Ochs nothing comes across except a sincere individual with a great compassion. I agree that the recent film (There but for Fortune) takes care to stick to the facts and is the best biographical representation of Ochs to date.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs - paid agitator?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 May 13 - 03:38 PM

Does this There But For Fortune link work only inside the U.S, or is it available worldwide?

Oh, and don't forget the Mel Brooks program.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs - paid agitator?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 May 13 - 03:53 PM

Not in the UK Joe.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs - paid agitator?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 May 13 - 04:22 PM

http://www.last.fm/user/broadsideballad/journal/2009/08/07/2x74fo_phil_ochs_fbi_file


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs - paid agitator?
From: Bettynh
Date: 25 May 13 - 04:42 PM

Thanks, GUEST. It reminds me of the days we spent reading Mao's Little Red Book aloud to the walls and ceilings to enlighten those we knew were listening. ;-)


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