BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:58 PM

Thank you, Saul...

You, of course, are a rational adult who understands the art of having a discussion where you say something and then the other party says something...

Unfortunately, we have irrational adult wantabees who think that if they SHOUT or post lots and lots of blogs that that makes their point of view more important than anyone else's... The problem with this irrational thinking is that they are doing a disservice to their position because people will just pass these long winded, truth challenged blogs and go on to the next poster who...

...may be another rational adult...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:45 PM

Not commenting on the OP here. Just a stylistic comment. In many/most conversations, unless the "speaker" is making some scintillating point, I usually turn off my interest after probably 'bout 150 - 200 words or so. (Note that that is not 140 CHARACTERS, which is a whole 'nother matter.) If the point is that long and the speaker doesn't let me catch my breath or interject my own comments or questions, I am leaving.

Just a stylistic point; not a comment on the subject matter.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:26 PM

MIAMI (AP) — The Justice Department will sift through trial testimony, interviews and other evidence during what is likely to be a months-long investigation into whether George Zimmerman violated Trayvon Martin's civil rights when he shot the black teenager.

The key to charging Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch volunteer, lies in whether evidence exists that he was motivated by racial animosity to kill Martin, who was 17 when he was shot during a fight with Zimmerman in February 2012. And while Martin's family has said the teen was racially profiled, no evidence surfaced during the state trial that Zimmerman had a racial bias.

Former Miami federal prosecutor David S. Weinstein says it will likely be months before a decision is made on whether to bring charges.

Zimmerman, 29, was acquitted of second-degree murder and manslaughter charges after claiming he fired his weapon in self-defense only after Martin attacked him. His friends and family have repeatedly denied he harbored racial animosity toward blacks. Florida did not use its own hate crime laws against Zimmerman.

Legal experts say the FBI and prosecutors will go back through the interviews done before the state case began; look at all the forensics such as crime scene records and medical reports; and review the state's witnesses to see if any who did not testify might have important information.

However, investigators are not limited to existing evidence; they can pursue new evidence and conduct new interviews as they see fit. For instance, federal investigators could look more closely at Zimmerman's past for any evidence of racial bias.

"They are going to need to do a thorough vetting of the facts. It takes time," said Lauren Resnick, a former prosecutor who obtained a guilty verdict in a 1991 New York hate crime case involving the stabbing death of an Orthodox Jew. Those defendants had been acquitted in state court.

In a speech Tuesday to an NAACP convention in Orlando, Attorney General Eric Holder said "I am concerned" about the Zimmerman case and pledged the Justice Department will conduct a thorough review.

"While that inquiry is ongoing, I can promise that the Department of Justice will consider all available information before determining what action to take," he said.

The lone juror in the case who has spoken publicly — known only as Juror B37 because their identities have not been released — said Monday that she did not believe Zimmerman followed Martin because the teen was black.

Still, supporters of the Justice Department filing civil rights charges say additional evidence could exist in the federal investigation that didn't come up in the state prosecution of Zimmerman, possibly even witnesses who have not previously been interviewed or did not come up in the state case.

"They have a separate set of evidence they're looking at," said Barbara Arnwine, president and executive director of the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law. "They might have additional witnesses that were never called upon by the state. I think they will make the best decision that is possible in this case and they will pursue what they think is legally possible."

Several civil rights groups, including the NAACP, are demanding that the Justice Department bring federal charges against Zimmerman, and there have been numerous protests around the country about the outcome of the Florida trial.

During a news conference Tuesday, the Rev. Al Sharpton acknowledged there are hurdles. But he said there remains a fundamental question of "does Trayvon Martin and the Trayvon Martins of this country have the civil right to go home?"

He added: "... we have some experience on how to deal with hurdles and we see that as part of our strategy."

Beyond the exact language of the law itself, the federal probe must navigate between sensitive racial and political issues that arose when Zimmerman initially wasn't charged in Martin's killing.

"Many people simply cannot process how an unarmed teenager is killed, and yet no one is held criminally accountable for his death," said Marcellus McRae, a former federal prosecutor in Los Angeles.

Resnick said a federal jury would have to find beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman had a racial motive when he began following Martin and that he did not act in self-defense when he fired his gun.

"There remains the serious challenge that prosecutors still have to prove the racial motive," she said.

Zimmerman could get life in prison if charged and convicted under federal hate crime laws.

Generally, the Justice Department is reluctant to get involved in cases that have already been tried before a state jury, in part because of concerns about double jeopardy.

Perhaps the best-known example where federal prosecutors did intervene was the case of four police officers acquitted after a California state trial in the beating of motorist Rodney King, which triggered deadly riots in the Los Angeles area in 1992.

Two of the four officers were convicted in federal court of violating King's rights, but that case differs from Zimmerman's because they were acting as sworn law enforcement officials, not as a private citizen claiming self-defense.

In contrast, the Justice Department declined to prosecute New York Police Department officers after they were acquitted in the 2006 shootings of three men including Sean Bell, who was fatally wounded the morning of his planned wedding. The short Justice Department statement — issued in 2010, four years after the shooting — simply said there was insufficient evidence to proceed.

"Neither accident, mistake, fear, negligence nor bad judgment is sufficient to establish a federal criminal civil rights violation," the department said in the Bell case.


http://news.yahoo.com/feds-sift-evidence-zimmerman-case-170642843.html

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:18 PM

Spaw,

Glad to see you uphold the "Liberal View" with the best set of facts you have- that you need to be blown.



Go off with Greggie and Bobert and burn some more crosses. Or lynch someone who disagrees with you- that is more your speed.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:13 PM

The undisputed KING of cut and paste as well as the biggest asshole in any three states strikes again. The dumbfuck cannot stick to any point but issues a blitzkrieg from his own collection racist bullshit............

Blow Me Bruce........


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: redhorse
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:12 PM

"By Conrad Black "

Is that Conrad Black the convicted criminal?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 11:58 AM

Former O.J. Simpson prosecutor Marcia Clark told Newsmax TV that the George Zimmerman murder trial was never going to be a "slam dunk" for Florida prosecutors.

"I came into this case thinking it was a tough case for the prosecution," said Clark in an exclusive interview on Tuesday. "I was open about that from day one. Never thought this was a slam dunk because it's difficult in all self-defense cases when there are only two witnesses — and one is dead."

Clark said juries often have difficulty getting at the truth in cases such as Zimmerman's.

She believes that the Zimmerman case hinged largely on the state's key witness — Rachel Jeantel, who was on the phone with Trayvon Martin in his final minutes of life.

"They did a good job. They had a tough uphill battle; there is no doubt about it," she said of Florida prosecutors in the case. "They had to rely on putting together a very circumstantial case — much of it based on inconsistent statements by George Zimmerman . . . It's up to the jury to decide how important they think the inconsistency is."

While the Zimmerman case was "very different factually" from the "trial of the century" nearly 18 years ago, both cases had at least one similarity that may have played into the not guilty verdicts.

"The jury in the Zimmerman case had their life view and the jury in the Simpson case had theirs," she said. It's part of our jury system, that we want people to bring their life experience into the mix.

"We want them to bring their commonsense based on their life experience into the evaluation of evidence, but the problem is that all of their experiences come in — not just the ones you think are most helpful — to an objective view of the facts."

For example, she said, some jurors may be less trusting of police, or have an opinion about neighborhood watch groups in the case of Zimmerman, who was a neighborhood watch volunteer.

She pointed to one apparent inconsistency in Zimmerman's account of his encounter with the 17-year-old Martin.

"George Zimmerman thought Trayvon Martin jumped out of the bushes, and then the next day was unable to find any bushes he could have jumped out of," Clark explained. "One person looks at that and says, 'wow evidence that he lied.' Another person looks at that and says, 'so, he made a mistake.' That's always a difficult case. So they did the best they could with the case they had."

Simpson, a former NFL star, actor, and sports commentator, was acquitted by a Los Angeles jury in October 1995 in connection with the grisly stabbing murders of his ex-wife and her friend after one of the most publicized and racially charged criminal trials in U.S. history.

Clark believes the media can have unintended consequences in such cases.

"Witnesses who are afraid of the spotlight and don't want that kind of scrutiny, don't want to come forward, minimize their testimony, and sometimes never get found because they don't want to be found," she said.

"Some witnesses who want — for whatever reason — the spotlight, love it, and are not really witnesses — what I call faux-witnesses — make up stuff or exaggerate what little information they have so that they can get the spotlight," according to Clark, who recently authored, "Killer Ambition," about a female prosecutor, who takes on the case of a Hollywood power player that puts her in the middle of the media spotlight.

"Some judges really don't get affected by it at all, as we've seen Judge Nelson in the Zimmerman trial as well as Judge Perry in the Casey Anthony trial did a brilliant job of just being excellent jurists not affected by the media — held everybody's feet to the fire, and enforced the rules of evidence fairly across the board," Clark observed.

"On the other hand, not all judges can resist the allure of instant fame and then things go crazy and the courtroom is out of control," she said, adding that she's not sure she approves of cameras in the courtroom. "To that extent, that's a bad thing. Lawyers pander to the camera — some do. Some don't. But the effect is not necessarily in the service of justice."

Although Simpson was found guilty in a civil court and ordered to pay a multi-million dollar judgment to the families of his late wife and her friend, he has yet to pay up, she said.

Martin's family has yet to say whether they will file a civil suit against the 29-year-old Zimmerman.

"They're enforceable to a point but it doesn't really take that much to avoid them," she explained. "So while the Martin family may well sue — and may well prevail in civil court as did the plaintiffs in the lawsuit against Simpson — but whether that is of any benefit, I'm just not sure about that."

Editor's Note: Should Obama Use Zimmerman Verdict to Ban Guns?

Unlike criminal cases, where juries must find someone guilty beyond a "reasonable doubt," they need only find some culpable beyond a "preponderance of evidence" in a civil case.

"I don't think anybody ever really collects money on these judgments and I don't think that is ultimately really the point either," she said. "It is possible they (Martin's family) will prevail in civil court."

She said the double-jeopardy rule would not apply if the U.S. Department of Justice decides to bring federal civil rights charges against Zimmerman.

"Just because you're acquitted in state court doesn't mean a federal court can't take the case," she said. "So the U.S. attorney can certainly do it. Whether they will or not is a different matter."

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 11:54 AM

The principal takeaway from the Zimmerman trial and verdict is that the greatness of America and its people still vastly exceeds the corruption and in many respects, the outright evil of its justice system. More important by far were the dignity and stoicism of the defendant and the eloquence and simply hewn moral strength of his counsel, than the mealy-mouthed pieties of the egregious state attorney general and the sanctimony of the defeated prosecutors. More eloquent than all, perhaps, was the silence of the jury after each had confirmed the verdict: "Not guilty." It was an inexpressible relief to find anyone associated with an American trial, in particular those most importantly involved in it apart from the defendant, whose chief purpose did not appear to be garrulously to inflict upon the parched and biased media their vapid expatiations on everything.

In this case, the judge, like most American judges in criminal cases, was an ex-prosecutor and acted effectively as part of the prosecution. She was biased in her rulings and abusive and injudiciously rude in her manner, and she did her best to salvage something for the prosecution by giving the jury the right to find guilty on a lesser charge at the very end of the trial. Prosecutors win 99.5 percent of their cases in the United States, an unheard of figure in the democratic world (about 60 percent in Canada and just over 50 percent in Great Britain are convicted, and in both countries the procedural rules are equal, the media are discouraged from poisoning the wells of the jury pools and lynching the defendants before the trial begins, and the defense speaks last to the jury). Of these 99.5 percent, 97 percent are without trial, after prosecution manipulation of the plea bargain so that everyone who has ever met the target can be given immunity from perjury prosecution and told that if their memories do not produce something useful to the government they will be charged as co-conspirators with the defendant. In the countries mentioned, and many others, prosecutors would be disbarred for what is routine in the United States.

So those who go to trial in the U.S. have about a one in six chance of not being convicted: grim, but not hopeless odds. In the Zimmerman case, there were no witnesses to the fatal and tragic encounter between the defendant and the deceased, Trayvon Martin, so the abuse of the plea bargain could not thicken and serry the ranks of prosecution stooges repeating their rehearsed lines like parrots reciting the catechism extracted from them by prosecutors as the condition for not prosecuting them, the lugubrious farce featured in most American criminal trials. The Sanford police did not want to charge Zimmerman, because there was no evidence, from witnesses or forensic analysis, to contradict his story that it was a case of self-defense. So there would be no men in blue testifying under oath to his guilt and no chance for a cops-are-tops Manichaean bout between the Society of Laws and the Forces of Darkness. (The problem with American justice is not and never was that the country is a police state. If anything, it is still under-policed, and though there are many imperfections in the constabulary, the police in general are competent if given the right orders. The problem is the prosecutors, who are out of control policemen in suits performing in front of judges who are prosecutors in robes, for the benefit of jurors an inordinate number of whom are the dregs of society.)

Deprived of the usual stacked deck, the prosecution, roused to action by that ineffable pillar of popular theology and racial harmony, the Reverend Al Sharpton, relied not just on playing the race card and, as Johnnie Cochrane's co-counsel said of him in the O. J. Simpson case, dealing it "off the bottom of the deck." It emulated the opening of My Little Chickadee, where W. C. Fields, faced with a hand of four aces, put down five aces and claimed the pot. The attorney general, Eric Holder, urged pro-Trayvon demonstrations, presumably because he prejudged Zimmerman to be guilty, and the president, in the most distressingly novel aspect of the case, averred that if he had had a son, he would look like the deceased. No previous U.S. president had so prejudicially inserted himself in a criminal proceeding. And the national media, showing again why they are distrusted by most and why the following of the main traditional television networks and periodicals has shriveled for decades, joined the liberal political establishment in trying to make the case a watershed against racial profiling and the full panoply of minority grievances. George Zimmerman was to be a symbol, a metaphor turned on the spit over the fire of racial bigotry. The New York Times invented the term "white Hispanic" to deprive the target of minority sympathy, but at least that newspaper, whose controlling shareholders would probably not like to be described as "Anglo-Saxonoid Jews," stopped short of inciting the inference, as some of the African-American media allegedly did, that he was a Jew. The CNN legal correspondent, an attractive and articulate ex-prosecutor, Sunny Hostin, was rabidly partisan and commented at the merciful end that "Justice has taken a holiday." I think not, but any sense of professionalism she may have, did.

Every informed person in the Western world knows that African Americans and other minorities have many grievances, and no reasonable person would make light of them. But acting on them to demand a murder trial of someone against whom there is no evidence, and attempting to compensate for the absence of evidence with a hysterical smear campaign to which most of the traditional media subscribed, and for which the great offices of president and attorney general of the United States were willfully degraded by their occupants is, as defense co-counsel Don West said, "disgraceful." When pressed, Mr. West expressed the wish to retain his license to practice law, indicating how disrespectful his candid comments on the Florida prosecutorial establishment and the local bench would be. Withal, the deliberate decision of the jury, delivered without elaboration, the unpretentious and very dignified remarks of the defense counsel, and the sober operation of the system of justice as it is supposed to operate, made it a great hour for America. The hour is made more gratifying and majestic, not sullied, by the hyena-calls for a civil-rights prosecution, and the inevitable fatuities and fictions of the humiliated prosecutors that America, despite the verdict, has "the best justice system in the world," meaning the one that allows them to conduct such a mockery as they did in this case.

President Obama's concluding comments were unexceptionable: "The jury has spoken . . . " etc. It has, against him. Apart from the outrage of his intervention in the case, the whole misconceived and over-heated drama highlights the danger of the Obama policy. It need not be so, but there is some truth to the familiar concern that once voters realize that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury, democracy is on the skids. Politicians pander to the redistributive instinct. Franklin D. Roosevelt is unjustly reviled by enemies of the present welfare state, but he opposed the dole and would not pay able-bodied people to be idle. On everything he said that is recorded, he would be appalled at the abuses of the system that now exist in most Western countries for taking money from those who have earned it and giving it out on an unrigorous basis to those who have not, in presumed exchange for the votes of the recipients. The exact figures are disputed, but there is no doubt that the president's section of the voters in last year's election has a lower standard of living, higher unemployment, crime, and welfare-dependency rates, and the great majority of public-sector employees. It was a fair election. A candidate has to pitch to his base; Mr. Obama was better organized, and the winning candidate, unless it is a landslide, always to some degree games the system. There is nothing wrong with any of that. But this administration has aggravated the divisions in the country, not only as an electoral tactic; there is plenty of precedent for that, including from some distinguished presidents; but as premeditated policy. This is unnecessary, dangerous, and bad. The optimists will hope that the president has burned his fingers in the Zimmerman case and will try, for the balance of his term, to maintain the dignity of the highest office within the gift of the American people. If it happens, to quote Dr. Johnson, I would not only be surprised, I would be astonished.

By Conrad Black

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 11:45 AM

Some facts on the special prosecutor...


JULY 17, 2013 4:00 AM
Angela Corey's Checkered Past
Her peers describe an M.O. of retaliation and overcharging.
By Ian Tuttle

Shortly after Dershowitz's criticisms, Harvard Law School's dean's office received a phone call. When the dean refused to pick up, Angela Corey spent a half hour demanding of an office-of-communications employee that Dershowitz be fired. According to Dershowitz, Corey threatened to sue Harvard, to try to get him disbarred, and also to sue him for slander and libel. Corey also told the communications employee that she had assigned a state investigator — an employee of the State of Florida, that is — to investigate Dershowitz. "That's an abuse of office right there," Dershowitz says.

What happened in the weeks and months that followed was instructive. Dershowitz says that he was flooded with correspondence from people telling him that this is Corey's well-known M.O. He says numerous sources — lawyers who had sparred with Corey in the courtroom, lawyers who had worked with and for her, and even multiple judges — informed him that Corey has a history of vigorously attacking any and all who criticize her. But it's worse than that: Correspondents told him that Corey has a history of overcharging and withholding evidence.
The Zimmerman trial is a clear case of the former and a probable case of the latter. Zimmerman was charged with second-degree murder, also known as "depraved mind" murder. The case law for that charge, an attorney who has worked in criminal prosecution outside Florida tells me, is near-unanimous: It almost never applies to one-on-one encounters. Second-degree murder is the madman who fires indiscriminately into a crowd or unlocks the lions' cage at the zoo. "Nothing in the facts of this case approaches that." Which Angela Corey, a veteran prosecutor, should have known, and a grand jury would have told her. In fact, both the initial police investigation and the original state attorney in charge of the case had determined exactly that: There was no evidence of any crime, much less second-degree murder

But that did not stop Corey from zealously overcharging and — the facts suggest — withholding evidence to ensure that that charge stuck.

Still, by the end of the case it was clear that the jury was unlikely to convict Zimmerman of second-degree murder; hence the prosecution's addition of a manslaughter charge — as well as its attempt to add a charge for third-degree murder by way of child abuse — after the trial had closed. "In 50 years of practice I've never seen anything like it," says Dershowitz. It's a permissible maneuver, but as a matter of professional ethics it's a low blow.

Corey's post-trial performance has been less than admirable as well. Asked in a prime-time interview with HLN how she would describe George Zimmerman, Corey responded, "Murderer." Attorneys who spoke with me called her refusal to acknowledge the validity of the jury's verdict everything from "disgusting" to "disgraceful."

But will Corey ever be disciplined for prosecutorial abuses? It's unlikely. State attorneys cannot be brought before the bar while they remain in office. Complaints can be filed against Corey, but they will be deferred until she is no longer state attorney. The governor can remove her from office, but otherwise her position — and her license — are safe.

Meanwhile, those who speak out against her continue to be mistreated. Ben Kruidbos (pronounced CRIED-boss), the IT director at Corey's state-attorney office, was fired last week — one month after testifying during the Zimmerman trial that Corey had withheld from defense attorneys evidence obtained from Trayvon Martin's cell phone. Corey's office contends that Kruidbos was fired for poor job performance and for leaking personnel records. The termination notice delivered to Kruidbos last Friday read: "You have proven to be completely untrustworthy. Because of your deliberate, wilful and unscrupulous actions, you can never again be trusted to step foot in this office." Less than two months before this letter, Kruidbos had received a raise for "meritorious performance."

The records in question — Kruidbos maintains he had nothing to do with leaking them — revealed that Corey used $235,000 in taxpayer money to upgrade her pension and that of her co-prosecutor in the Zimmerman case, Bernie de la Rionda. The upgrade was legal, but Harry Shorstein, Corey's predecessor, had said previously that using taxpayer funds to upgrade pensions was not "proper."

Meanwhile, while Kruidbos has been forced out of the state attorney's office, the managing director who wrote his termination letter — one Cheryl Peek — remains. In 1990 Peek was fired from the same state attorney's office by Harry Shorstein's predecessor, Ed Austin, for jury manipulation. Now, as managing director for that office, she trains lawyers in professional ethics.

Since her election, Corey seems to be determinedly purging from the ranks any who cross her and surrounding herself with inferiors whose ethical scruples appear to mirror her own. Meanwhile, those she chooses to victimize — most recently, George Zimmerman — far too often have little recourse.

"Make crime pay," Will Rogers once quipped: "Become a lawyer." Angela Corey seems to be less interested in making crime pay than in making her critics pay.



http://nationalreview.com/article/353633/angela-coreys-checkered-past-ian-tuttle/page/0/1?splash

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 10:14 AM

Yo, GfinS...

I am not reacting to bb, who BTW I do not so much as look at, as much as I am commenting on the number of posts by you and the other KKKers here... That's all...

Seems that ya'll think that you can win this debate by just posting and posting and posting and posting... Just looking at the shear numbers of posts tells ya' which side looks to be trying to drown out discussion...

Reminds me of immature guitar players who try to cover up their lack of talent by playing loud and too many notes...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 09:56 AM


When exactly was it established that Trayvon Martin was "acting strange"? What's our source for that?

Before Z had done anything for which he could possibly criticised, still sitting in his car, he called the police and said,"Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, it's Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about."

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 09:43 AM

Bobert, I think your overreaction to Bruce's post are 'maybe just a little over the top'..Bruce is not a wing of the KKK. He is merely pointing out that the FORCED overreactions, are contrived and distorted to the facts of the case. I know he gets criticized for posting 'cut and paste' texts..BUT, his texts are usually without his personal rantings. They are articles from reliable sources, which seem to be overlooked, in the wake of those who are forming EMOTIONAL responses.
The trial was FORCED through WITHOUT going to a Grand Jury, to sort out, with investigations, and without suppressed evidence, to be able to charge Zimmerman appropriately. It IS that SAME EMOTIONALISM that caused this case to be rammed through, WITHOUT proper protocol.. Nobody is doubting that there is racial biases in the South..BOTH fucking ways,,and it is that SAME, mindless EMOTIONALISM that is perpetuating the hostile biases!!! Can't you see that??..Maybe if YOU and other people that are out of control, would be in a frame of mind, other than hostility, maybe someone would listen. Hostility doesn't bring harmony. Hostility doesn't bring justice. Hostility doesn't bring dialogue. Hostility doesn't bring anything more than more hostility!!..and yet, you SAY you want the hostility of blacks to end11???!!?? YOU are prolonging it!!! RECONCILIATION comes with UNDERSTANDING...NOT block-headed stonewalling!!..either way. It reminds me of an old sticker I used to have, "Fighting for peace, is like fucking for virginity!"
What is your point of the ranting??..to bring it to trial????...it already went there. Perhaps, Trayvon gets a pass, and everybody looks the other way, disregarding that he threw the first punch!! That was racial, and hostile..and you think agitating hostility and more racism is going to stop that?????????? NO, IT MAKES MORE! Did you see the articles about WHY Trayvon was staying with his dad??..It was because he was suspended from school, for tagging lockers, vandalism, and drugs, and having stolen property..AND the article goes on to say, that in school surveillance videos he is seen looking suspicious....but if the Neighborhood Watch guy, says he was looking suspicious, the FIRST thing you guys do, is say that it was because of his race!..Was that the same reason the school spokesman said it too?..MAYBE HE WAS up to something..maybe he wasn't before Zimmerman crossed paths with him....from the re-actions of a lot of stupid people, it is apparent that THEY are the racists, and pretty fucking lame ones at that! Nobody bitches when black on white crimes, and beatings, and death occurs, as Bruce points out..nobody bitches about black on black crimes occur (except Bill Cosby had some stern, honest words)..but you apologetics just keep fanning the fires, as if you were the 'set-up' crew for the KKK!!
Hostility breeds more hostility!!! Understanding and acceptance breeds reconciliation!! ARE YOU INTERESTED???????...or out for more blood??. Black and white are skin colors, blood is red...how much more needs to spill, before you get your satisfaction????
Shit, I can't believe I'm having to tell a grown man this!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 09:16 AM

JUROR: No, I think he just profiled him because he was the neighborhood watch, and he profiled anyone who came in acting strange. I think it was just circumstances happened that he saw Trayvon at the exact time that he thought he was suspicious.

When exactly was it established that Trayvon Martin was "acting strange"? What's our source for that? And the second statement makes no sense at all. I thought she also said George Zimmerman used poor judgement. Now she seems to be chalking it up to mere fate.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 09:09 AM

So, Bobert, as a true southerner, what were you doing back in the 50's/ How many blacks did you lynch back in your youth?

I have posted facts- You have not, yet you post attacks on all that disagree with you. Your opinion is that- an opinion, not factual or even based on evidence, it seems.

You state that liars should not be believed, yet you are the main liar here, with "Bobert Facts" that have been proven false that you continue to insist on.

There were more Palestinian refugees in 1948 than the entire population of Palestine of all religion.
Gaza has the highest population density in the world- EXCEPT for Hong Kong, Singapore, New York, Mexico City...
Everyone in the South is just as racist as Bobert is- And he knows racism better than anyone else.

You are a liar, a racist, and a scumbag, like you friend Greggie boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 08:59 AM

Seems that the KKK wing here at Mudcat is posting furiously over and over and over... Just look at the last 30 or so posts... Do you see a pattern???

Seems that the KKK wing thinks if it posts often and loud enough that that alone will justify the murder of a black teenager armed with a bag of candy...

Maybe the KKK wing should quit posting here and go burn some crosses to get all their pent up hate satisfied... No, maybe they'd rather get a gun and shoot another black teenager...

Bottom line??? Ya'll can put up 1,000,000 posts before I come back here to this thread but guess what... You are still the KKKers here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 08:42 AM

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — Four of the jurors at the George Zimmerman trial distanced themselves late Tuesday from statements that another juror made in a televised interview.

The four jurors issued a brief statement on court stationary saying that the opinions expressed by Juror B37 to CNN's Anderson Cooper on Monday night are not representative of their views.

"The opinions of Juror B37, expressed on the Anderson Cooper show were her own, and not in any way representative of the jurors listed below," said the statement, signed by Jurors B51, B76, E6 and E40.

Juror B37 said the actions of Zimmerman and 17-year-old Trayvon Martin both led to the teenager's fatal shooting last year, but that Zimmerman didn't actually break the law.

The four other jurors said in their statement that Martin's death weighed on them.

People gather during a rally organized by the Act Now to Stop War and End Racism (ANSWER) coalition …
"Serving on this jury has been a highly emotional and physically draining experience for each of us," the statement said. "The death of a teenager weighed heavily on our hearts but in the end we did what the law required us to do."

They also made a request for privacy. The court has not released the names of the six-woman jury, which included five whites and one woman who appeared to reporters to be Hispanic.

The interview came two days after the jury acquitted Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch volunteer, of second-degree murder in the shooting death of Martin in a gated community in Sanford, Fla. Martin was black, and Zimmerman identifies himself as Hispanic. Zimmerman was not arrested for 44 days, and the delay in charging him led to protests from those who believed race was a factor in the handling of the case.

While prosecutors accused Zimmerman of profiling Martin, Zimmerman maintained he acted in self-defense. He claimed Martin was slamming his head into the concrete sidewalk when he fired the gun.

In the CNN interview, Juror B37 said she didn't believe that Zimmerman followed Martin because of his race. She said Zimmerman made some mistakes, but that she believed Martin struck Zimmerman first and that the neighborhood watch volunteer had a right to defend himself.

Juror B37 said the jurors were initially divided on Zimmerman's guilt, with three jurors believing he was guilty of either manslaughter or second-degree murder, but that the jury agreed to acquit the 29-year-old Zimmerman after more closely reviewing the law.

In a part of the interview that aired Tuesday, Juror B37 said it wouldn't have made much difference if Zimmerman had testified at trial since she believes he would have gave the same story he gave investigators in videotaped police interviews that were played at the trial.

Juror B37 said at one point it appeared they might be heading to a hung jury as another juror wanted to leave. The other jurors convinced her to stay.

Juror B37 said a block of concrete that defense attorney Mark O'Mara placed in front of jurors during closing arguments made an impression, as did photos of Zimmerman's bloodied head. She also believed Martin's actions contributed to his death.

"I think George got in a little bit too deep, which he shouldn't have been there, but Trayvon decided that he wasn't going to let him scare him and get the one-over, up on him or something," she said. "I think Trayvon got mad and attacked him. "

By not walking away from the confrontation, the juror said of Martin, "I believe he played a huge role in his death."

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 08:36 AM

http://mdjonline.com/view/full_story/23037003/article-Mableton-teens-linked-to-gang-are-accused-in-beating-death?


And the calls here for a Civil Rights investigation??? Obviously racial, obviously a hate crime... and obviously ignored by the "liberals" here that keep promoting lynchings, as long as the victim is non-black.

Two weeks after the Martin killing, there were demonstrations- two weeks after the Chellew murder, not a word from anyone....

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 08:31 AM

Who's Joshua Chellew? The fact that you don't know his name is the whole point. But that's not your fault.

Marietta Daily Journal, 7/3/13:

Four south Cobb teenagers are in custody in connection with the beating death of a 36-year-old Mableton man on Mableton Parkway early Sunday morning…
They have been accused in the beating death of Joshua Heath Chellew, 36…
According to the warrant, the four teenagers are accused of starting a fight with Chellew at a Chevron gas station in the 6200 block of Mableton Parkway near Community Drive at about 1:20 a.m. Sunday. They repeatedly punched and kicked him, according to police.
While attempting to escape, Chellew backed into the center five-lane highway and was pushed to the ground and knocked unconscious, the warrant states.
They then walked away from Chellew, "leaving him helpless," and he was eventually hit by a car, the warrant states.
A horrible, senseless murder. Why hasn't it received wider attention?

Courtesy of Top Conservative News, which notes:

If the races had been reversed, this would be the biggest news story in the United States. It would have knocked the Zimmerman trial out of the news.
Yep. Or, if Chellew had been able to defend himself against one or all of them, he'd be the new George Zimmerman. We'd be seeing baby pictures of his attackers. Al Sharpton would be marching. Jay Carney would be filibustering away all questions about Obama's latest race-baiting. MSNBC would be on full alert.

But Chellew wasn't able to defend himself. He probably deserved it, right? I mean, just look at him. You can't get any whiter than that.

Just another creepy-ass cracker.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 08:27 AM

African Americans benefit from Florida's "Stand Your Ground" self-defense law at a rate far out of proportion to their presence in the state's population, despite an assertion by Attorney General Eric Holder that repealing "Stand Your Ground" would help African Americans.

Black Floridians have made about a third of the state's total "Stand Your Ground" claims in homicide cases, a rate nearly double the black percentage of Florida's population. The majority of those claims have been successful, a success rate that exceeds that for Florida whites.

Nonetheless, prominent African Americans including Holder and "Ebony and Ivory" singer Stevie Wonder, who has vowed not to perform in the Sunshine State until the law is revoked, have made "Stand Your Ground" a central part of the Trayvon Martin controversy.


http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/blacks-benefit-from-florida-stand-your-ground-law-at-disproportionate-rate/

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 08:09 AM

The death of Trayvon Martin was a tragedy. Not just for his family, or for any one community, but for America. I know this case has elicited strong passions. And in the wake of the verdict, I know those passions may be running even higher. But we are a nation of laws, and a jury has spoken. I now ask every American to respect the call for calm reflection from two parents who lost their young son. And as we do, we should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to widen the circle of compassion and understanding in our own communities. We should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to stem the tide of gun violence that claims too many lives across this country on a daily basis. We should ask ourselves, as individuals and as a society, how we can prevent future tragedies like this. As citizens, that's a job for all of us. That's the way to honor Trayvon Martin.




http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/14/statement-presidenthttp://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/14/s

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 08:06 AM

1000

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 08:05 AM

The jury made the "right decision" in the George Zimmerman murder trial, former President Jimmy Carter said Tuesday.

"I think the jury made the right decision based on the evidence presented, because the prosecution inadvertently set the standard so high that the jury had to be convinced that it was a deliberate act by Zimmerman that he was not at all defending himself, and so forth," Carter told Atlanta news channel WXIA. "It's not a moral question, it's a legal question and the American law requires that the jury listens to the evidence presented."

Carter said he agrees with President Barack Obama and accepts the jury's decision. "So President Obama said he thought - it was — he regretted the decision, but he had to accept the results of the jury decision," Carter said.

"But we are a nation of laws, and a jury has spoken," the statement said, although it didn't mention anything about Obama regretting the decision as Carter suggested.
When asked if the trial says something about the state of racial relations in the United States, Carter said he feels America will put aside the feelings about the past.
(PHOTOS: Trayvon Martin rallies)
"I've seen outbreaks of this before, in California when a man was beaten up by police and when Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated; there were terrible race riots. And I think eventually no matter how deep the emotional feelings and moral feelings might be, with time passing, we start seeing what we can do about the present and the future and put aside the feelings about the past," Carter said.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/jimmy-carter-george-zimmerman-verdict-94320.html

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 07:54 AM

Richard,

FROM YOUR POST:
Wikipedia "On March 13, 2012, Chris Serino sent a capias request to the state's attorney recommending charges of negligent manslaughter against Zimmerman,

ANfd how do you explain away my postings?


MY statement is true- He did recommend manslaughter charges, for wjatever reason.


YOU are a scum sucking liar.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:59 AM

Chicago Defender - "mere days after the shooting, Det. Serino felt there wasn't enough evidence to arrest, let alone file charges against Zimmerman."

Conservative Treehouse.com "Ultimately the FBI interviewed Serino and he told how and who pressured him. We presented that highly revealing interview then and here it is to help you understand:

"He listed Sgt. Arthur Barnes, Rebecca Villenova, and Trekelle Perkins as all pressuring him to file charges against Zimmerman after the incident."

Law of self defense.com "Well, we already knew from Chris Serino's testimony yesterday that he was under considerable outside pressure to bring charges against Zimmerman:

Zimmerman Trial Day 6 – Analysis & Video – State's witness Chris Serino seriously undermines charge

We also know from the FBI report of their interview with him that he felt such charges were unwarranted:

Zimmerman Trial: Evidentiary Flashback: Investigator Serino Tells FBI He Was Pressured to Bring Charges

But did you also know that Investigator Serino, a law enforcement office with 30 years of experience and obviously deemed competent enough by his superiors to lead a cross-departmental investigation of the Trayvon Martin shooting, was demoted to patrolman after he failed to recommend second degree murder charges against George Zimmerman?

120626 Christopher Serino demoted to partrolman – CBS News"


Wikipedia "On March 13, 2012, Chris Serino sent a capias request to the state's attorney recommending charges of negligent manslaughter against Zimmerman, though Serino maintains he did not believe they had the evidence to support those charges and that manslaughter was only included in the capias in order for the prosecutor's office to continue with their own investigation."

Wikipedia again "On March 16, Serino told the Orlando Sentinel that his investigation had turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account, that he had acted in self-defense. "The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event, everything I have is adding up to what he says.""

Orlando Sentinel "Said Serino, "The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman. … We did not have enough for an arrest warrant.""



There. That didn't take long to check did it, Brucie

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 01:01 AM

"stormbed"? Didn't find it.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:56 AM

Stoopud!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Songwronger
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:44 AM

You know, if George W. Bush had used the federal government to go into a community and agitate for protests over the killing of a white man by a black man, and then stepped in front of the cameras and said the white man looked like the son he might have had...

Obama's the worst racist I've ever seen in my life. The absolute worst. He even trumped Al Sharpton with that "Could've been my son" stunt. Sharpton gets paid to spew his racist hate (it's his meal ticket), but Obama's supposed to be the president of the United States. The UNITED states. He's an absolute travesty as president.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Songwronger
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:31 AM

Just go to Youtube and type in "walmart stormbed by trayvon supporters." Bobert's in there somewhere, or his spirit is.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:03 AM

The first one might have been a 'bad link', 'cuz the second one is the same one..I couldn't tell the difference...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 11:51 PM

Bad link. His party's here.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 11:47 PM

We in NEW school now. Don't care about Israel bombing the Russians in Syria. Justice for Trayvon.

Bobert's victory celebration

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Elmore
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 10:58 PM

LOL (deja vu).

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 10:03 PM

I thought you could read typonese...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 08:11 PM

GfinS and cogent???

LOL...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Elmore
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 08:00 PM

Too bad GfS doesn't know the difference between resit and resist, or worse, between it's and its. (see 16 Jul 13-2:48 AM). His remarks would seem much more cogent.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 07:31 PM

There is no argument here...

There are two very different ways of looking at the world...

Some are fearful they will become a minority and won't be able to rule the others so they are intent on "stand-you-ground" to protect them from an emerging majority... Very narrow thinking... Wouldn't it be smarter to try to get along that to build higher fences??? Guess not...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 07:02 PM

The quality of argument has gone from poor to puerile.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 06:59 PM

Greg F: "As I correctly surmised, had Martin been Jewish, you'd be carrying the noose and leading the mob after Zimmerman yourself."

As I correctly surmised, had Dylan been Jewish, you'd be carrying the noose and leading the mob after Yoko Ono yourself.

GfS

P.S. I..I...er,...I...J-just COULDN'T resit it!

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 06:45 PM

John Oliver explains Florida gun laws

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 05:59 PM

I predict that Zimmerman will end up losing the war...

I wish I could believe & take comfort in that Bobster... but it comes real hard.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 05:57 PM

Where does beardedbruce get all the time to read, then copy-and-paste all this stuff?

He doesn't actually READ it beforehand, Don, if he recognizes a few known keywords he just chucks great gobs of horseshit about whether its relevant or not. Volume is all.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 05:54 PM

Posted by Beardedbruce:

"Don Firth,

And yet you accept Greggie boy as a self-appointed "Liberal Voice"without any complaint?


You are sicker than I thought."

Bruce, anyone who spends as much time gleaning the web for the vast volumes of racist propaganda that you cut-and-paste here--well, they don't come much sicker than that!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 05:44 PM

""supported primarily by grants and contributions from foundations, corporations, and individuals.""

foundations, corporations and members of the richest one percent.

Oh that'll be alright then.

No vested interests there............?

Sheeesh!
Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 05:30 PM

""Too bad you can't follow the facts. You are showing your obvious racism here.

"Given that Serino ddidn't want to prosecute Zimmerman, Hell! He didn't want to investigate him, he just wanrted to release him and forget the whole thing, just how much credence should have been given to pro Zimmerman testimony from this half baked imitation of a cop?""

The prosecution of Zimmerman was a farce from start to finish. There was no lawyer present who intended to secure a conviction.

And the man who, having not a single idea of his own, has stuffed this thread with cut and pastes of other pewople who share his distaste for convicting a man who, after all, only shot a black. It's not like he killed a human being, is it Bruce.

And you have the nerve to call me racist.

My attitude would be exactly the same if it were a black vigilante strapping on a gun and looking for an excuse to shoot someone.

Can you say the same, given that you won't even discuss the possibility that a black kid might feel afraid when accosted aggressively by a non uniformed stranger, and act in self defence.

I think it is obvious who is the racist here, and it's you.

Now post another copy of a full page screed that you already posted three days ago.

It's all you're good for.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 05:01 PM

Thanks, Beardy, for your bigoted anti-Black rant of 16 Jul 13-01:37 PM
about a quarter-century old irrelevancy.

It DOES however clearly illuminate your real opinion of Black folks. And you have the unmitigated chutzpah to call other people racist? Fascinating.

As I correctly surmised, had Martin been Jewish, you'd be carrying the noose and leading the mob after Zimmerman yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 04:59 PM

Here's another part of this injustice that we really haven't talked much about: karma...

Yep, Zimmerman may have won the Southern injustice battle but his karma is fucked...

I predict that Zimmerman will end up losing the war... Not sure how it will play out but you can take it to the back that it will play out... Got O.J and it will get this creep, too...

As for his fan club here??? They got some messed up karma, too, to live with...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 04:43 PM

Finally!!..A constructive post!

..but keep in mind, the 'Stand Your ground' statute was NOT entered into this case, by either the prosecution, nor the defense...it was talked about, but not part of the defense's trial evidence, just for your information...nonetheless, it could be done away with, without infringing on anyone's 'rights'. Self defense should be able to cover the necessary defenses, when employed legitimately...that's up to the jury to decide, on each individual case.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 04:13 PM

America cares about power and money. You want the stand your ground law overturned, boycott Florida products. They'll lose the law soon enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 04:06 PM

Goofball, the gold star on your forehead is shining through your belly-button.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 03:49 PM

Firth: "Your brand of instant assumption and conclusion-jumping just wouldn't have cut it. The station manager would have booted your ass out the door right after your first newscast."

My brand of instant assumption and conclusion-jumping just wouldn't be instant assumption and conclusion-jumping. yours is IF it co-insides with your predisposed biases...isn't that how YOU decide what the 'facts' are??..what you 'decide to believe' or not?

but you are right about one thing..."

"And of course, Goofball, you don't think the news is a reliable source of facts. Well, to a large degree, it isn't."

Right! Give yourself a gold star on your forehead!

GfS