BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:20 PM

"It is sad that so many define "Justice" as finding Zimmerman guilty in spite of the facts.

What's a helluva lot sadder, Beardy, is your uncritical support of a murderer and that YOU define "Justice" as finding Zimmerman innocent, in spite of the facts, the context, the several sub-texts and common sense.

However, that is exactly what one would expect of BullshitBruce, purveyor of 14-karat horseshit by the truckload.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:27 PM

The court has stated that Zimmerman is not a murderer.

Any claim to the contrary is something that has to be backed up with proof.

We are waiting, you members of the lynch mob- WHERE IS THE PROOF?



The prosecution did not present it.

The prosecution did not even present any alternative explanation to the circumstantial evidence beyond what the defense stated.

The claim of the defense of self-defense is supported by the evidence presented, unlike the story the prosecution tried to put before the jury.

The jury judged based on the cases presented, and came to a decision.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:31 PM

Bobert, you stupid fool,


"This didn't end up being a Stand Your Ground case," Abrams reminded him. "They waived the Stand Your Ground hearing, this became a classic self-defense case in Florida. Are people going to talk about it? Yes. Are they going to be able to point to this case and say this is the example of Stand Your Ground? No."


You have been told before, yet you keep making this false statement.

That makes you a proven liar, and thus you should not be paid any attention to- all your previous life is declared to be not worth considering, and everything you say is not true- Just as you stated about Zimmerman.

Or do you get special rules because of your pure-Southern background?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Elmore
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:33 PM

Would've been nice if Zimmerman offered Trayvon a ride home on that rainy February night instead of offing him.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:35 PM

Disgusting verdict.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:35 PM

""more comments...

"It is sad that so many define "Justice" as finding Zimmerman guilty in spite of the facts. This lynch_mob mentality is a sad commentary on our society.""

No Bruce, Justice is finding Zimmerman guilty BASED on the facts:

1. That Trayvon Martin was accosted by a man in civilian clothes, whose first words were "What are you doing here", a classic opening for a vigilante, a mugger, or just a n****r hating cracker.

I would not assume that his attentions were friendly, would you?

2. This stranger (by his own account of events), without further conversation, reaches for a pocket.

He says he went for his phone. Who was he calling? He had already called the police, and been advised to let them do their job. However, that move toward the pocket would have scared the shit out of me, so I don't suppose that Martin would be any less afraid that it would be a knife or a gun about to appear.

Now you have the conditions for a reaction based upon a genuine fear of bodily harm or death. A classic situation of self defence by Tayvon Martin.

If you cannot, or will not, see that this fulfils the legal conditions for the boy to pre-empt the expected attack under the State of Florida's own laws, then you are wilfully blind to the civil rights of black Americans.

And so are the law enforcement authorities of that institutionally racist state.

A disgrace to 21st Century America.

Tell me where you think my facts or conclusions are in error Bruce!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:41 PM

Face it, Elmore...

Zimmerman saw himself as some kind of KKK Superman out to protect his white neighbors by not allowing no uppity n****r boy to cut thru their property...

That's the long and short of the story or Zimmerman would have stayed in his car...

This verdict is no different than the O.J. verdict and will one day be looked back upon as one of America's worst verdicts...

The people here celebrating, BTW, seem to be the same Obama-hating rednecks that we've had the displeasure of knowing here in this music community who don't know squat - or care - about music...

Normal...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:42 PM

But as anger flared from coast to coast, President Obama, who's spoken on the case before, urged Americans to keep their calm:
'I know this case has elicited strong passions. And in the wake of the verdict, I know those passions may be running even higher. But we are a nation of laws, and a jury has spoken. I now ask every American to respect the call for calm reflection from two parents who lost their young son.'

Relief: George Zimmerman breaks into a smile of relief a few moments after being cleared of all charges
The verdict on the case that has bitterly divided the nation, after the jury took more than 16 hours and 20 minutes over two days to reach their conclusion.
They unanimously decided the neighborhood watch volunteer and would-be cop justifiably killed the unarmed teen because he believed his life was threatened on that February night in Florida last year.
As the judge announced that Zimmerman had no other business with the Seminole court just after 10pm on Saturday, his mother, who was sat in the court, beamed a smile for the first time during the trial and his emotional wife broke down in tears.
Zimmerman jubilantly embraced both - realizing that after a year and a half of living as a hermit and virtual recluse - he was now a free man.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2362973/Protests-erupt-coast-coast-George-Zimmerman-goes-FREE-Second-day-demonstrations-planned-night-anger.html#ixzz2Z8YpvWC4
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:42 PM

""The prosecution did not present it.""

Damn right! The whole prosecuting team should be disbarred and jailed for deliberately selling out to the racist n****r haters, and throwing black civil rights on the shit heap.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:47 PM

The writer who said that a 17-year-old kid should be polite to his "elders" is missing a crucial point: Zimmerman was not, say, 50 years old, he was young, young enough that no one should feel that s/he was battling an incapable person.

On the other hand, a 29-year-old could be expected to have better judg(e)ment than a teenager.

I continue to believe that Zimmerman was carrying an "equalizer", and most likely had it out of the holster when he was following Martin.

Speaking of following: when Z was asked "Are you following him?", Z answered "Yes"; he did not say I WILL follow him, or I am THINKING of following him, he clearly implied he had already been following. Quite possibly Martin was already aware that there was a man in pursuit.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:50 PM

"""This didn't end up being a Stand Your Ground case," Abrams reminded him.""

This is most definitely a "Stand you Ground" case, but the guy with the right to claim it is DEAD, and no other bastard has bothered to claim it for him.

You can paint a turd gold Bruce, but when you try to exchange it for cash, somebody is going to tell you what it really is.

Ditto Zimmerman and the latterday Scottsboro case.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:52 PM

"a classic opening for a vigilante, a mugger, or just a n****r hating cracker."

Or anyone else, seeing a person they did not know in an area they lived in. I do it all the time- and ask if I can help them.

"I would not assume that his attentions were friendly, would you?"

I would not assume his attentions were NOT friendly- but then we judge others by how we would have said it.




"2. This stranger (by his own account of events), without further conversation, reaches for a pocket."

Actually, he stated that he reached for the phone after Trevon said "You do now" So there was conversation.



"Now you have the conditions for a reaction based upon a genuine fear of bodily harm or death. A classic situation of self defence by Tayvon Martin."




Who threw the first punch? Being asked a question does not justify throwing a punch.


Very well. The next time I meet someone on a dark night, and they ask me what I am doing there, if their hands are not visible I will assume they have a gun and I will jump them and pound their head into a bloody pulp- you have stated that is ok. And I will expect all those here that think Zimmerman guilty to take to the streets and support me, regardless of the race of the individual I kill- or be proven racist scum like Greggie boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:55 PM

Don, I only have your word that you rolled on the floor with someone for research.
You know why I do not take your word without question.
I have not lied about any of that.

You put forward the fact that it was possible in a staged reconstruction, as a rebuttal of my comment.

I did no such thing.
I just asked you about the re-enactment.
I asked, "Don, how did he manage it in the reconstruction?"
Since then I have watched it.

I do not lie Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:59 PM

1. The prosecution didn't really try very hard to prove its case.
2. Many of the points the prosecution did try to enter into evidence were denied by the judge.
3. One does not have to delve into the history of court decisions very deeply to know that what a court decides and what is really the case are not necessarily the same thing.

If Zimmerman had stayed in his car as the police told him to do, this would never have happened.

And even so, George Zimmerman was armed with a 9 mm. automatic. Trayvon Martin was armed with a box if Skittles and a can of iced tea.

Zimmerman was (is) a frustrated wannabe cop with a gun and an itchy trigger finger.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:00 PM

In the reconstruction, KeithAofH, you may -or may not - have noticed that O'Mara reached for a weapon at the front of his body, not behind the curve of the hip. Totally different scenario.

In commentary, the point was made that prosecutor - inexcusably - did not challenge it.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:00 PM

"Having followed the story from it's beginning to the end of the trial, it was obvious that this was a political trial, President Obama & other politicians comments saw to that. The original prosecutor was removed because he felt there was nothing to challenge the self defence claim of Zimmerman. Trayvon Martin's girlfriends evidence shows that he was the racist by his comments when on the phone to her, not Zimmerman, who has mentored black teens and raised money for a black man in his neighbourhood. "


"The Race issue seems to be clouding the protestors' reactions in this. This case has been through a valid trial and evidence put forward and considered. A forensic pathologist has also considered the evidence. Zimmerman's injuries looked pretty bad to me and were photographed by both civilian bystanders and police at the time. Lawyers for the deceased "school boy" (actually he had been suspended following several issues one of which involved drugs) are bound to try and paint a picture of a trigger-happy vigilante and an innocent school boy buying sweets - that's their job."



"Justice has been served... It's time for the Country to move on.. Whether you like the verdict or not, it is what it is..that's the beauty of our Justice system!! ''Innocent until proven guilty''... The Prosecution didn't prove their case ''beyond a reasonable doubt''... The ''Race-Baiters'' have divided our country, along with the President... It's time to keep ''politics'' out of our COURTS... This case should have never been filed in the first place..."

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:03 PM

""The verdict on the case that has bitterly divided the nation, after the jury took more than 16 hours and 20 minutes over two days to reach their conclusion.""

It is documented fact that the longer a jury deliberates, the less likely a conviction.

What seems to happen is that the pro guilty are more inclined to give in because they are fed up and want to go home, and an cquittal is at least safer than chancing an unjust conviction.

Given the time it took, the verdict wasn't unanimous until they had reached that point.

Somebody must have been for a conviction for 16 hours and nineteen minutes.

Far from the way that the verdict has been portrayed by the Zimmerman groupies.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:08 PM

""I would not assume his attentions were NOT friendly- but then we judge others by how we would have said it.""

So you would open the conversation with "What are you doing here"?

That's what Zimmerman did, and it doesn't sound friendly to me, nor I suspect to anyone else who wasn't rooting for "Good ole boy George".

In fact it sounds rude and aggressive, but hey, you know your own idea of good manners.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:12 PM

"
Somebody must have been for a conviction for 16 hours and nineteen minutes.
"

And somebody was convinced of Zimmerman's innocence for longer than that.


They had questions, they asked for an inventory of the evidence, and they gave it thought-

Not what the Bobert/Don/Greggie lynch mob wanted to happen, but the way the system is supposed to work. They decided based on the facts as presented, and not from a pre-determined conviction that they knew Zimmerman was guilty regardless of the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:14 PM

Based on evidence presented, the decision of the jury was the right one.

In all cases of this type, it is difficult to judge exactly what happened. There is a verdict in Scottish courts (still valid?) of "not proven."
This leaves many people unsatisfied.

In the South today, many Blacks have been elected to important office, where they function together with the elected Whites.

Most white southerners accept the fact that everyone is equal before the law, in business and government, and should be treated with respect socially as well.

This does not mean, however, that social acceptance goes so far that Whites willingly accept Blacks into their families. Parents instill their inner feelings in their children, often unknowingly, and this type of segregation, not only in the South but throughout the country, will continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:34 PM

Here in the Charlotte, NC area most of the schools are pretty much segregated... Okay, go to a black high school of a 1000 students and there might be a dozen or so whites kids and most of them transfers so they can play on a better football team... Same with white high schools...

This is by design, people... Southerners love using whatever loopholes there are in laws to try to do things the Southern way... Segregation is the Southern way...

We have two sets of rules here in the South... Kill a black person and that's okay... Kill a white person and it's not...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:38 PM

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk

Daily Mail? Read MORE??? Why would anyone with a brain read it in the FIRST instance, Beardy?

But thanks for the latest truckload of anonymous blogoshit which means less than nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:38 PM

If it's early evening, I have been to the local convenience store, and am walking back to where I am staying, and someone approaches me and says, "What are you doing here?" I think I would be justified in thinking that I am being challenged.

Especially if the person is addressing me in an aggressive and accusatory manner.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:41 PM

If it required a brain, Greggie boy, you would be out of the running.


Tell me again how your attacks on people prove anything other than the fact the you have no basis for your opinions other than what you see in your lower intestine.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:41 PM

The obvious is only obvious to rational thinking people, Don... Not racists, rednecks and tin-foilers...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:42 PM

So, Bobert, I know you qualify for at least two of those, but are you admitting to the third as well?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:49 PM

In the South today, many Blacks have been elected to important office

Yup, 'some of their best Negroes are their friends'. (Ochs)

Most white southerners accept the fact that everyone is equal before the law...

Please supply evidence to substantiate this.

Parents instill their inner feelings in their children, often unknowingly

And just as often, knowingly and willingly.

And you come by your expertise on Southerrn culturte & history how, exactly?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:52 PM

Tell me again how your attacks on people prove anything

Will gladly do so, BullshitBruce, once you've told us all how your truckloads of horseshit prove anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:54 PM

If someone is in my neighbourhood and looks as if they are lost, I might ask them if I could help them. I would never dream of saying "What are you doing here?" I would see that as remarkably aggressive bad manners. It would invite a hostile response.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 03:43 PM

Another "rational" response, McG...

The problem here is these people are not rational, or mannerly of all that bright... Hence, "What are you doing here" is about all they are capable of... Especially when they got a big gun...

Rude, boorish, angry people hurt people...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 03:59 PM

This killing began in the evening when GZ decided to go on "patrol" and put his gun on his hip. The neighborhood watch supervisory people asked that they NOT carry guns but GZ is a wannabe but failed police officer. Upon encountering TM he could have given him a shout in a friendly manner that he was with the neighborhood watch and could they talk for a minute. This is a well used procedure in those groups. If TM had run off he would then have called 911. He called 911 anyway but then quite obviously stated in words having profiling all through them that "these assholes always get away." He was told he didn't need to follow TM, "We don't need you to do that," but he did anyway.

From that point on there are witnesses with bits and pieces of uncertain knowledge on both sides but make no mistake, the fight started because GZ did not do what he was told and disobeyed the tenants of the neighborhood watch. There is no certain evidence as to which was on top when as they were probably both there at different points and the evidence supports that. GZ had very minor injuries and TM hands showed very little sign of being in a fight. A few minutes later TM was dead and GZ was alive and admitted freely that he shot TM.

If the prosecution had started with that simple narrative and ended with it as well, they would have won. GZ exercised his rights under the fifth amendment not to testify so we are left with several of his previously given statements which do not match and were never questioned as they could have been by the prosecution. Trayvon Martin cannot give us a statement. His rights mattered not at all to GZ and now Trayvon Martin has none.

Mark O'Meara is one helluva' fine attorney, the prosecution was less than stellar, and this killing happened because George Zimmerman left his home hoping to perhaps nab the people who had burglarized the neighborhood. He was hoping to be a big hero. He also put his gun on his hip.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:00 PM

http://live.wsj.com/video/opinion-were-the-zimmerman-verdict-and-trial-fair-2013-07-15-141152221/CC15DF06-D983-424C-99B8-B14F49C

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:04 PM

Only the six female jurors know for certain what testimony or evidence convinced them to acquit George Zimmerman of murder charges in the death of Trayvon Martin, but there were key moments in the trial that appeared to undermine the prosecution's case for conviction. Here are five of them.
Chris Serino was the lead investigator looking into the shooting of Martin and initially urged the Sanford, Fla., prosecutor to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter, a recommendation that was rejected.
Serino was called to the stand by the prosecution and was expected to be a key witness against Zimmerman. In his "just-the-facts" style of answering questions, Serino was repeatedly questioned by the prosecution and defense about Zimmerman's version of what happened that night. But in a surprise, the investigator was asked by Zimmerman's lawyer whether he believed Zimmerman was telling the truth, and the cop answered, "Yes."
The next day the prosecution asked that the jurors be directed to disregard Serino's comment and the judge agreed, but the damage may have been done.
John Good was another prosecution witness whose words may have helped Zimmerman more than the prosecution. Good lived near where the fatal shot was fired and appeared to have had the best view of the brief fight between Zimmerman and Martin.
Good testified that he saw what he believed to be Martin on top of Zimmerman. "The color on top was dark and the color at bottom was…red," Good said referring to the men's clothing. At another point he told the court that the person on the bottom had "lighter skin color."
Zimmerman is a white Hispanic who was wearing a red and black jacket that night. Martin, who was black, was wearing a dark sweatshirt.
"The person on the bottom, I could hear a 'Help,'" Good said.
Under cross examination by Zimmerman's lawyer, Good said he believes he saw Martin on top punching Zimmerman "MMA style," a reference to mixed martial arts.
"The person on top was ground and pounding the person on the bottom?"asked Zimmerman attorney Mark O'Mara.
"Correct," said Good
Rachel Jeantel was Trayvon Martin's friend who was talking with him on a cell phone until just moments before Martin was killed. She told the jury that Martin was scared of a "creepy a** cracker" who was following him and just before losing contact with Martin said she heard him say, "Get off. Get off."
But under a grueling cross examination by Zimmerman's lawyer Don West Jeantel conceded that it was difficult to hear what Martin was saying and that she did not know who threw the first punch when Zimmerman and Martin came face to face.
"The last thing you heard was something hitting somebody?" West asked her.
"Trayvon got hit," Jeantel said.
"You don't know that, do you?" the defense lawyer said.
"No sir," she said.
"You don't know that he didn't take his fist and drive it into Zimmerman's face do you?" the lawyer pressed.
"No sir," Jeantel replied.
Renowned forensics expert Vincent Di Maio may have been one of Zimmerman's strongest witnesses. He told the jury that the pattern of powder burns and other forensic evidence on Martin's body indicated that the teenager's sweatshirt was two to four inches away from his body at the time he was shot, meaning that Martin was leaning forward over Zimmerman when he was killed.
"The medical evidence is consistent with his [Zimmerman's] statement," Di Maio told the Florida court.
The words of Trayvon Martin's father were also used to undermine the prosecution's case. A key battle in the trial was over who was heard screaming for help in the background of a 911 call before the fatal shot was fired. Martin's family insisted the voice was their son's voice, while Zimmerman's parents told the court it was Zimmerman screaming.
Serino testified that when Martin's father, Tracy Martin, first heard the tape he said it was not Trayvon. "He looked away and under his breath said, 'No,'" Serino told the court.
A second police officer gave a similar description of Tracy Martin's reaction to the tape.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:13 PM

Bingo, Spaw...

In other words??? Justice, Southern style...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:26 PM

Ebbie, I thought he mimed taking it from the side and slightly behind, but I agree with you it does nothing to clear up that issue.

If Don had seen it he would have something to say, I think!

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:26 PM

Sorry, Don T I meant.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Elmore
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:28 PM

The aftermath would be funny if it weren't so sad. Just because we are stuck with this verdict, doesn't mean we have to like it or shut up about it. If our roles were reversed; if GZ had been convicted, there would be an equal or greater amount of bitching and whining.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:55 PM

And yet more blogohorseshit postarrhoea from BullshitBruce, signifying less than nothing.

Stronger remedies than paregoric and/or duct tape obviously in order.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:00 PM

By the way, BullshitBruce, the Wall Street Journal says "page unavailable" - which meets the standard of your regular horseshit hands down.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:23 PM

Bruce....You're a fuckin' idiot.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:40 PM

That's twice today that I have to agree with you, Spawz...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:56 PM

Ditto, Spaw.

All best,

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:06 PM

""Most white southerners accept the fact that everyone is equal before the law, in business and government, and should be treated with respect socially as well.""

In business and in government? The one percent with lots of money.

Try selling that one to those black people who are hassled by Florida law enforcement, or try to get fair hearing in a Florida court.

I have several times pointed out that Martin himself had every right to fear Zimmerman and to believe that Zimmerman was likely reaching for a gun, which would give Martin a self defence right.

It has been ignored or rejected by all of our racially non prejudiced fans of George Zimmerman, and was never brought up by a prosecution team which rendered a defence almost superfluous.

Multiply that by a couple of million and you have a clue about justice for blacks (except for those who are rich) in Florida.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:34 PM

Greg F, paid my poll tax in Texas back when. Have you ever been there (the South)- except as a trouble-maker?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:40 PM

""but there were key moments in the trial that appeared to undermine the prosecution's case for conviction. Here are five of them.""

Error! The prosecution never presented a case for conviction. They deliberately threw the fight by not exposing the holes in Zimmerman's story.

""But in a surprise, the investigator was asked by Zimmerman's lawyer whether he believed Zimmerman was telling the truth, and the cop answered, "Yes."   ""

Objection your honour. The question calls for a conclusion by the witness. No objection from the prosecution? Abysmal! Then they gave the jurors till the next day to think about it, before asking that it be stricken. Incompetent!

""Serino testified that when Martin's father, Tracy Martin, first heard the tape he said it was not Trayvon. "He looked away and under his breath said, 'No,'" Serino told the court.""

Which could conceivably be the sotto voce expression of a father's grief at hearing his dead son pleading for his life.

Given that Serino ddidn't want to prosecute Zimmerman, Hell! He didn't want to investigate him, he just wanrted to release him and forget the whole thing, just how much credence should have been given to pro Zimmerman testimony from this half baked imitation of a cop?

Also, what judge worthy of the name would permit such cavalier abuse of the rules of evidential admissibility to go unchallenged by the prosecution.

Mind you, the judge also has questions to answer about refusing the balance of admitting the two voice recognition experts, against the admission of the evidence of eight "friends" of Zimmerman.

This whole case and everyone involved in it stinks of a pre-judged outcome.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Elmore
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:43 PM

Watching the national news. The whites say it wasn't about race. Easy for them to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:49 PM

Have you ever been there (the South)- except as a trouble-maker?

Yeah, Q, I've been there. And exactly how long did YOU spend there, and when? And how long have you been gone?

Trouble-maker? You mean like those outside agitaters Goodwin, Schwerner & Chaney?? Or Emmett Till? Or Medgar Evers?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 07:08 PM

Outside agitators did little except create resentment against the valid efforts of southerners, black and white, to come to grips with the past, in court, in law and socially.

None of this has anything to do with the Zimmerman trial, in which the evidence led to acquittal.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 07:17 PM

That's right, Q, just another Southern apologist.


We didn't know said the congregation,
Singing a hymn in a church of white.
The Press was full lf lies about us,
Preacher told us we were right.
The outside agitators came.
They burned some churches and put the blame,
On decent southern people's names,
To set our colored people aflame.
And maybe some of our boys got hot,
And a couple of niggers and reds got shot,
They should have stayed where they belong,
And preacher would've told us if we'd done wrong.

   -Tom Paxton, 1963

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 07:24 PM

In injustice that was on display in this case has everything to do with the South's past and how little Southerners have done to correct those problems...

They have fought everything in the way of progress tooth and nail and continue to this very day to try to find ways to re-segregate, discriminate and to give white people an unfair advantage...

Voter laws requiring voter ID is a prime example... What these states are requiring is a "certified birth certificate" to get one of these ID cards... Does anyone here know what getting a certified birth certificate means??? It means that like in the state of South Carolina some 80,000 elderly black people, most who have voted for decades, have cast their last votes for the crime of being born at home???

Serious business... That's the deal...

Anyone who thinks that white Southerners ain't up to playing some seriously bad games on black folks is delusional... Pure and simple delusional...

B~