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BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 15 Jul 13 - 08:58 AM CET, I was taking a dig at Jeri... This idea that since the jury decided that Zimmerman had a right to shoot and kill Martin that everyone should just accept that and move on doesn't sit well with me... I felt the same way when the jury acquitted O. J. Simpson and am happy knowing that O.J. is now in jail where he belongs... What I am mostly concerned about is this ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Committee) that is pushing all these extreme right wing laws where-ever they see a chance of getting these laws on the books... The way the law in Florida reads anyone can murder anyone if they say they felt threatened... It doesn't matter who instigates the conflict... That is insanity and these laws come directly from the NRA to ALEC to a statehouse in your neighborhood... So, yeah, CET... Anyone who agrees that it's okay to gun down people because a jury will let them off is going to get a "dig", at the very least, by me... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 15 Jul 13 - 08:26 AM Since when did the South secede, and NOT be a part of the U.S.?? 1861. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:56 AM ""Don, how did he manage it in the reconstruction?"" Don't be naive Keith, it was a reconstruction and the bloke on top wasn't trying hard to stop him. If Trayvon Martin (17 to Zimmerman's 29) were the "Younger, stronger man", as portrayed by the defence, Zimmerman would never have reached that gun. The truth is that Zimmerman either drew the gun before he was punched, or threw the three and a half stone lighter kid off, and then shot him dead. Self defence?....NO WAY! Still don't believe it Keith? Don't make an ass of yourself. Try it out with someone who is really trying to hold you down. That's what I did! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: CET Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:47 AM Bobert: I actually knew about your civil rights work. I've also been reading your stuff on Mudcat for years and I have always considered you to be one of the voices of sanity. That's why I wrote "unworthy". It seemed to me that you were taking a dig at Jeri that wasn't up to your usual standard. I meant no disrespect to you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:07 AM Richard, how would a list of his clients tell us anything about his view of "reasonable doubt" which is a well understood concept anyway? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:03 AM Don, how did he manage it in the reconstruction? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Richard Bridge Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:53 AM Above it is argued that Dershowitz asserts there was reasonable doubt. If you want to know what he REALLY thinks about reasonable doubt look at the list of people he has defended. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:35 AM ""Everyone who is bitching vociferously, obviously DON'T understand the LAW!!. Also, the 'stand your ground' premise was NOT used in this case, but may be used 'successfully in any civil lawsuits."" No Goofus, it is you who don't understand, because you are too busy spouting your own opinions to listen to any incoming comment. The authorities didn't screw up this case through incompetence, in fact they did the most deliberate and competent job of wrecking a case they didn't want to win that I have ever seen. They didn't want to arrest him....FACT! They didn't want to charge him....FACT! They didn't want to try him.......FACT! The made DAMN SURE they didn't convict him. This is not about the LAW, as you seem to think, it's about WHITE LAW! Today Zimmerman is a white hero, but when the case is over and forgotten, he'll be just another goddam wetback to them. ___________________________________________________________________ BTW, Here's something to try for yourself. Lie down on the floor and get a friend to kneel astride your chest. With his thigh between your arm and your torso and his lower leg along your side to well below your waist, try to reach the point on the rear half of your side, which Zimmerman identified as the position of his gun. I tried this, and I coudn't reach it at all, but even had I got my fingertips there, I could not have drawn a gun, because it would be trapped in the crook of his knee, or between his leg and my body. The same experiment with my arms between his leg and my body, trapped at my side, was equally impossible. The only possible conclusion is that liar George drew the weapon before he was knocked to the ground by a punch, and the struggle that ensued was Trayvon's desperate attemts to stay alive. Try it out for yourself if you doubt my word. The greenest prosecution lawyer should have thought of having that demonstrated. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: michaelr Date: 15 Jul 13 - 12:38 AM CET: "none of that leads inevitably to the conclusion that he murdered Trayvon Martin." Really? Which one had the gun? Which one is dead? Someone please retitle this thread "Justice withheld". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Songwronger Date: 15 Jul 13 - 12:35 AM The current stack of headline links on the Drudge Report. The Obama/Ayers team is pushing hard to get their race riots: VERDICT DIVIDES... Sanford residents wary, on edge... Demonstrators in cities across country... CA protesters break windows, start fires... Cause Gridlock In Midtown Manhattan... Teen threatens 'mass homicide' on TWITTER... NY Giants Star: 'Zimmerman Doesn't Last Year Before Hood Catches Up to Him'... Beyonce holds moment of silence at concert... Celebs React... Sharpton: 'Slap in Face'... OBAMA: HONOR TRAYVON WITH GUN-CONTROL... Justice Dept: Under Review... *PAPER: Federal case would face obstacles... **Lead Cop Told FBI Zimmerman Not A Racist... Sen. Reid: 'This isn't over'... Pastor delivers sermon in hoodie... Will jury remain anonymous? TIMELINE: Media's prosecution of Zimmerman... Legal Team Sets Sights On NBC... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 13 - 10:46 PM Sorry, that last post was to CET... My bad... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 13 - 10:44 PM Sorry, GUEST, but I didn't initiate the comment that the jury had spoken so get over it... That was Jeri's take on the verdict... Verdicts are wrong... O.J., the most famous of today's murderers who got away with it, is the obvious case... The number of folks exonerated from death row is "Argument B" seein' as a lot of folks don't keep up with that little factoide... As for this jury and the thousands of juries though out the South in the past??? Sad grade... So, GUEST, I disagree with you that my post was "unworthy"... I came up in the civil rights movement... My mom and I were both arrested for civil-disobedience... I worked in the jail house as a teacher... I was a social worker... All in the South... I went years were I barely saw white people... If anyone here is ***worthy*** of talking about race and having seen up-close Southern justice, it is me... This ain't no brag... This is fact... If you doubt my resume then PM and I'll give you references... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: CET Date: 14 Jul 13 - 10:23 PM "Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert - PM Date: 14 Jul 13 - 11:43 AM Greg, There is such a fund... Google TrayvonMartin.com and see if that works... Yo, Jeri, I guess you were perfectly okay with the O.J. Simpson verdict, as well..." B~ That's unworthy of you Bobert. This case is nothing like O.J.'s. Jeri makes a good point. Zimmerman was racially biased. That seems clear enough. A bad law allowed him to be carrying a gun. No doubt on that score. He had no business following Martin. However, none of that leads inevitably to the conclusion that he murdered Trayvon Martin. There was some evidence on which the jury could conclude that Zimmerman acted in self defence and the prosecution seems to have failed to disprove self defence beyond a reasonable doubt. The law requires that guilt be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Sometimes that means that people who are possibly or even likely guilty are acquitted. Some of those people have repugnant habits and ideas. I don't mean that jury verdicts are never perverse. Sometimes they are and O.J. Is a case in point. However, juries are obliged to, and usually do, decide on the basis of the evidence presented to them and not on emotion and popular pressure. I don't we can say that the Zimmerman jury failed to do that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 13 - 10:04 PM Thank you, Don... Apparently GfinS thinks that the world is filled with all these wonderful people who wouldn't dare be racists... Maybe GfinS will read what you have posted and realize where I am going with my questioning... Doesn't much matter... GfinS wants to hide a terrible jury decision behind the vote on one black woman... I understand this as do most Southerners... Everything plays into these stories... So, GfinS... Please enlighten us as to you knowledge of the South... Your experiences here...Your knowledge of bacl women in the South... These are reasonable questions since you are justifying your opinion of the verdict by singling out a blackwoman... Now, GfinS... Please answer the question... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don Firth Date: 14 Jul 13 - 09:56 PM Fascinating reading: Sanford, Florida Has a History of Brutal Racist Oppression: KKK Once Drove Hall-Of-Famer Jackie Robinson Out of TownCLICKY Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 13 - 09:54 PM So, GfinS... Tell us why a Southern black woman would vote to acquit... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jul 13 - 09:52 PM Bobert: "800???" Yeah, we cross posted..pretty close to the same time! Now, to my question...I already know the answer, as to why the black woman voted to acquit..I just wanted you to think about it, and come to your senses. Look, I avoided even coming on this thread, till about the very end...and when I got here, I gave you VERY straight answers and insight to the trial..ALL of which, turned out accurate. I didn't say that either you or I were going to like it or agree..but I hung and walked you through it...even the aftermath..right? What else can I do??..I've been a good enough friend to be accurate for you. I've pleaded with you to 'Get off the tracks', in other words do NOTHING to inspire or instill hated, bigotry, and racism into anyone else. I've tried to dissuade you from taking parts in any protests or demonstrations, where someone might get hurt..including YOU! What else can I do, with these little letters on the screen?? so..I'll pop in and take a look here and there, but for the most part, I'm done! BTW, my Dad was born in Missouri. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 13 - 09:37 PM 800??? Wrong twice, GfinS... You are on a roll... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 13 - 09:36 PM BTW, are you going to answer the question. GfinS??? You ask me lots of questions and I try to answer them... I've asked you hundreds of questions over the years and you have never answered one single one... That is called truth avoidance... Until you start answering some of my questions don't ask me any more... All you are doing is playing games and avoiding reality with you games... Square business... Now, you ready to discuss Southern black women??? If not, then don't ask me to answer your "ahh-hah-excuse-me-I'm-ignorant-but-I'm-tryin'-to-hide-it" dumbass questions... No more fucking games... Just answer the question... Tell us about your past living here in the South... That is a fair question since you seem to want to speak as someone who understands the South... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jul 13 - 09:29 PM 800! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 13 - 09:28 PM In other words??? BS and no answer... Normal for you, GfinS... And... ...800... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jul 13 - 09:27 PM here's your answer: Since when did the South secede, and NOT be a part of the U.S.?? Therefore, the South is under the same judicial system, as the rest of the country! Zimmerman was acquitted..GET OVER IT!..and by the way, I quoted Sharpton about being calm, I gave you Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz, a civil rights attorney, and Professor, on the emotional vs factual aspects of the case..OK..how about this one? Read Obama's full statement: "The death of Trayvon Martin was a tragedy. Not just for his family, or for any one community, but for America. I know this case has elicited strong passions. And in the wake of the verdict, I know those passions may be running even higher. But we are a nation of laws, and a jury has spoken. I now ask every American to respect the call for calm reflection from two parents who lost their young son. And as we do, we should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to widen the circle of compassion and understanding in our own communities. We should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to stem the tide of gun violence that claims too many lives across this country on a daily basis. We should ask ourselves, as individuals and as a society, how we can prevent future tragedies like this. As citizens, that's a job for all of us. That's the way to honor Trayvon Martin." That was YOUR guy, and our president..... ..and me, your bud! So, like I said, "Get your shit together, man!" GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 13 - 09:10 PM GfinS, When you answer me about how many years you lived in the South then we can talk about Southern black women, a subject I know one heck of a lot about... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST Date: 14 Jul 13 - 09:03 PM ... defendant planned the fatal shooting... Well he followed him after the police told him not to. Sounds a bit like planning to me. If he had backed off as he was told then Trayvon would still be alive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jul 13 - 09:00 PM Bobert, get your shit together, man....and answer me this, as long as you're into speculating... Why did the black woman also vote for a not guilty verdict??? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 13 - 09:00 PM He might not, but I do... This verdict was 100% wrong... Southern style justice for the __________________ (fill in your number) time... Seen it all my life... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jul 13 - 08:58 PM Poetry Bird???? If you're really into poetry, stick to that. You certainly know nothing about law!! ..and looking at your post, you look like an emotional train wreck, as well! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 13 - 08:51 PM I generally agree with Alan but he's 100% wrong here... Think his advanced age is interfering with his usual clear thinking... Sorry, Alan... You are wrong as wrong can be... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jul 13 - 08:46 PM Delete the other post this is the same but I forgot to sign in, and edit two ads. Thank you! Here, Bobert, and others, this as posted since my last post!!!!!!!!!! Prosecutors 'Should Be Disbarred' Friday, 12 Jul 2013 06:22 PM By Bill Hoffmann Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz says the prosecutors in the George Zimmerman murder trial should be charged with "prosecutorial misconduct" for suggesting the defendant planned the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin. "That is something no prosecutor should be allowed to get away with … to make up a story from whole cloth," Dershowitz told "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV. "These prosecutors should be disbarred. They have acted absolutely irresponsibly in an utterly un-American fashion." Zimmerman, a 29-year-old neighborhood watch volunteer, is charged with gunning down Martin, 17, as the two fought following a confrontation in the gated Sanford, Fla., community where Zimmerman lives — an act the defendant said was in self-defense. In the prosecution's final argument on Friday, lawyer John Guy said Zimmerman deliberately followed Martin and "shot him because he wanted to." Dershowitz called Guy's statement "such speculation. How does he get into the mind of Zimmerman? He hasn't cross-examined him, he hasn't met him. "To ask the jury to believe that is to ask the jury to convict based on complete and utter speculation and that's not the way the law operates." A day earlier, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda said Zimmerman — whom he labeled a "wannabe cop" — "followed" and "tracked" Martin after profiling him as a criminal. Dershowitz said not only should Zimmerman have not been charged with second-degree murder, but prosecutors should not have pushed to have manslaughter and child abuse added to the list of possible jury verdicts. "[It's] utterly irresponsible. … The idea that the prosecution can try the case on a murder theory and then, at the last minute, substitute manslaughter, even though it seems to be permitted generally under Florida law — it's a big mistake to allow it in a case like this," he said. "And then the very idea of even suggesting child abuse in a case like this is so irresponsible." Dershowitz praised the closing argument of defense lawyer Mark O'Mara. "He did the right thing by being methodical and factual because this is a case where the prosecution's case is all emotion and the defense case is all factual," the famed civil-rights lawyer said. "Emotionally, obviously everybody can identify with a young, unarmed 17-year-old who ends up dead, and emotionally, as President [Barack] Obama said, he's all of our children." Dershowitz — whose clients have included Claus von Bulow, Mike Tyson, Patricia Hearst, and former televangelist Jim Bakker — said the case has "reasonable doubt" written all over it. "Nobody knows who started the initial physical encounter, who threw the first blow — and if you don't know that you have to have a reasonable doubt," he said. "Nobody knows for sure who screamed, 'Help me, help me.' You have to have a reasonable doubt about that. Nobody knows for sure who was on top and who was on bottom, though the overwhelming forensic evidence suggests that Zimmerman was on the bottom having his head banged by a younger, stronger man. You have to have reasonable doubt there." Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz says almost exactly what I was telling you!!! GfS S |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST Date: 14 Jul 13 - 08:36 PM Here, Bobert, and others, this as posted since my last post!!!!!!!!!! Prosecutors 'Should Be Disbarred' Friday, 12 Jul 2013 06:22 PM By Bill Hoffmann Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz says the prosecutors in the George Zimmerman murder trial should be charged with "prosecutorial misconduct" for suggesting the defendant planned the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin. "That is something no prosecutor should be allowed to get away with … to make up a story from whole cloth," Dershowitz told "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV. "These prosecutors should be disbarred. They have acted absolutely irresponsibly in an utterly un-American fashion." Editor's Note: Weird Trick Adds $1,000 to Your Social Security Checks Zimmerman, a 29-year-old neighborhood watch volunteer, is charged with gunning down Martin, 17, as the two fought following a confrontation in the gated Sanford, Fla., community where Zimmerman lives — an act the defendant said was in self-defense. In the prosecution's final argument on Friday, lawyer John Guy said Zimmerman deliberately followed Martin and "shot him because he wanted to." Dershowitz called Guy's statement "such speculation. How does he get into the mind of Zimmerman? He hasn't cross-examined him, he hasn't met him. "To ask the jury to believe that is to ask the jury to convict based on complete and utter speculation and that's not the way the law operates." A day earlier, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda said Zimmerman — whom he labeled a "wannabe cop" — "followed" and "tracked" Martin after profiling him as a criminal. Dershowitz said not only should Zimmerman have not been charged with second-degree murder, but prosecutors should not have pushed to have manslaughter and child abuse added to the list of possible jury verdicts. "[It's] utterly irresponsible. … The idea that the prosecution can try the case on a murder theory and then, at the last minute, substitute manslaughter, even though it seems to be permitted generally under Florida law — it's a big mistake to allow it in a case like this," he said. "And then the very idea of even suggesting child abuse in a case like this is so irresponsible." Dershowitz praised the closing argument of defense lawyer Mark O'Mara. "He did the right thing by being methodical and factual because this is a case where the prosecution's case is all emotion and the defense case is all factual," the famed civil-rights lawyer said. "Emotionally, obviously everybody can identify with a young, unarmed 17-year-old who ends up dead, and emotionally, as President [Barack] Obama said, he's all of our children." Dershowitz — whose clients have included Claus von Bulow, Mike Tyson, Patricia Hearst, and former televangelist Jim Bakker — said the case has "reasonable doubt" written all over it. Editor's Note: Weird Trick Adds $1,000 to Your Social Security Checks "Nobody knows who started the initial physical encounter, who threw the first blow — and if you don't know that you have to have a reasonable doubt," he said. "Nobody knows for sure who screamed, 'Help me, help me.' You have to have a reasonable doubt about that. Nobody knows for sure who was on top and who was on bottom, though the overwhelming forensic evidence suggests that Zimmerman was on the bottom having his head banged by a younger, stronger man. You have to have reasonable doubt there." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 13 - 07:37 PM GfinS, Have you ever lived in the South??? If so, when and where... Like Northern Virginia ain't "the South"... Ya' see, the KKK has everything to do with this case in that racism has been passed down from one generation to another and today's racist generation may not understand the lineage... A concise answer will suffice here... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 14 Jul 13 - 07:12 PM "experienced federal prosecutors will determine whether the evidence reveals a prosecutable violation." Don't hold your breath in today's AmeriKKKa |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: bobad Date: 14 Jul 13 - 07:00 PM WASHINGTON — The Justice Department says it is looking into the shooting death of Trayvon Martin to determine whether federal prosecutors should file criminal civil rights charges now that George Zimmerman has been acquitted in the state case. The department opened an investigation into Martin's death last year but stepped aside to allow the state prosecution to proceed. In a statement Sunday, the Justice Department said the criminal section of the civil rights division, the FBI and the U.S. Attorney's office for the Middle District of Florida are continuing to evaluate the evidence generated during the federal probe, in addition to the evidence and testimony from the state trial. The statement said that, in the government's words, "experienced federal prosecutors will determine whether the evidence reveals a prosecutable violation." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jul 13 - 05:47 PM Bobert: "Yes, and as I have pointed out here earlier, the KKK gunned down 5 peaceful demonstrators in 1979 in Greensboro, NC and got away with it..." THAT case is completely irrelevant, to the Zimmerman case. If you want to address past issues, all the way back to pre- Civil War days, you can waste your time doing it. If you insist on bringing up other cases, try addressing the issues I brought up, about Holder, Clinton and the others...Meanwhile, this case, as others are NOT a 'tit for tat' game. Either the charges stand up, as charged, or they don't..PERIOD! They didn't..and the prosecution, couple with the racial/political pressure is why! That is the REAL FACTS...ask ANY attorney!!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jul 13 - 05:26 PM Bobert: "You can take it to the bank that neither Zimmerman or his attorney's have any interest in a lawsuit for false arrest..." Though I posted that, I'm not saying they should.. that being said, I'm merely pointing out how absolutely terribly the case was handled, when the racial overdose or out of control emotions were whipped up, causing the prosecution to go around the 'normal' procedure...speaking of which, judging from some of the posts since the verdict, there still are people who just don't seem to get it! Zimmerman DIDN'T get what was coming to him, because of all the flapping about the racial issue. As I posted before: "..and one more thing...it was either 34 or 36 FBI agents interviewed Zimmerman prior to the trial, as to his racial prejudices....all of them said there was no evidence that he had any!!! There goes the federal civil rights charges! Some of you may disagree, for a myriad of reasons, in that case, you might want to check own selves!" Zimmerman SHOULD have been charged with something that would have stuck..but 2nd degree murder wasn't it..and because of it, it failed. No amount of screaming and tantrums are going to change that. Sharpton, to appear relevant, is going to lobby and press for federal charges, so he says. Everyone who is bitching vociferously, obviously DON'T understand the LAW!!. Also, the 'stand your ground' premise was NOT used in this case, but may be used 'successfully in any civil lawsuits. Now if you want to bitch at me, you're wasting your time..I DIDN'T WRITE the law, nor am I particularly in agreement with it. I just posted the posts I did, because I understand the law, as it applied down there. What 'seems fair', or 'unfair', I have not opined, one way or the other(remember the pig race)..all I was doing was trying to do was clarify the hurdles, and let people see clearly what was LEGALLY going on. No need whatsoever to spit nails at me, or in other words, "Don't shoot the messenger!" When you apply your(generically speaking) angst about the racial issue, or the age issue, I applied the FACTS of the law, and posted them. You may disagree, about the law, or the way it was applied, but at least I told you ACCURATELY what they were, are, and how they either applied of didn't apply. Fair enough? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 13 - 05:10 PM Yes, and as I have pointed out here earlier, the KKK gunned down 5 peaceful demonstrators in 1979 in Greensboro, NC and got away with it... Eastern NC has been especially racist going back forever and the Klan is still very active... BTW, speaking of the Klan, I recall my freshman year in college in Richmond, Va... I had an old 50's English Ford that wasn't all that reliable and for every hour I spent driving it I spent another hour fixing it... Anyway, one night I got curious about what was outside of Richmond so the English Ford and I ventured out into the country... I was on this very deserted country road outside an area they just called Short Pump which wasn't even a crossroads but just a rural area... It was a pretty dark night and then I noticed that I was driving toward a lite up area... It was way down the road but the light was so bright that I thought maybe it would turn out to be rural high school football game all lit up... Well, much to my horror, as I got closer I discovered the light was coming from a big bonfire and as I got closer I reckon ya'll can guess what was going on... Yup, a Klan rally out in big field... Musta been a couple hundred Klansmen in the white robes... I could see them plain as day... No way I was going any further so I turned around and got the hell out of there... Now I don't know what they were up to but I knew that lynchings were still happening so I was glad they didn't run me down in one of their pick-up trucks and string me up for having longish hair and wearing sandals... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 14 Jul 13 - 04:44 PM Richard, Walking While Black, in certain geographic areas, has ALWAYS merited a death sentance. This is nothing new, and is a long and hallowed tradition in the U.S. southland. Check out Phillip Dray's At The Hands Of Persons Unknown, New York, Random House, 2002. The "New South", my areshole. Welcome to 1868. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 13 - 04:34 PM GfinS, You can take it to the bank that neither Zimmerman or his attorney's have any interest in a lawsuit for false arrest... They both know the facts of the case and they understand that the DoJ still can bring the same charges under federal hate crime law... They also understand there is a good chance that Martin's family, after it has had a little time to digest this bungled verdict, may be bring a wrongful death suit against Martin... So, there won't be any such action coming from the Zimmerman case... Plus, it would be a civil suit and that would expose Zimmerman to the witness stand... He wouldn't have a choice but to testify or risk losing that suit with whatever cash amount would be attached to it... Them's is the facts here... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Richard Bridge Date: 14 Jul 13 - 03:26 PM To the well known US misdemeanour DWB is now added WWB. But it carries a death sentence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 14 Jul 13 - 03:17 PM the moderators would have politely put a bug in his ear.. As opposed to the perennial bug up your ass, Insanity? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Poetry Bird Date: 14 Jul 13 - 03:06 PM One would think that anybody sporting a moniker with the word sanity, would understand that "Stand your Ground" should apply to the citizens of Florida. Not just the WHITE (or, as in this case, honorary white when stalking blacks) citizens! From my earlier post:- ""One of them said, I reached for my phone(dubious, when facing a possible aggressor). The other without doubt saw that move toward a pocket by a non uniformed man who might easily have been a mugger, and couldn't possibly predict what would come out of that pocket, but might very reasonably have surmised that it would be a gun."" Are you suggesting that he should have stood and waited to be shot? Isn't that the purpose of "Stand your Ground"? The prosecution rolled over and threw the game because they had absolutely no intention of securing a conviction. So in the end nobody presented Trayvon Martin's case. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jul 13 - 01:54 PM Hey Yo-yo! one would think, that given Greg F's track record in Mudcat, one of the moderators would have politely put a bug in his ear..or rear..or.. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 14 Jul 13 - 01:17 PM Yo! GeistInsanity! Bugger off one time, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jul 13 - 12:56 PM ..and a book deal......... .....and a movie deal......... Personally, If he does that, he SHOULD share the proceeds with the Martin family. It may never replace the loss, but if he did, remember, he DID say he was sorry to them...we'll see! ..and one more thing...it was either 34 or 36 FBI agents interviewed Zimmerman prior to the trial, as to his racial prejudices....all of them said there was no evidence that he had any!!! There goes the federal civil rights charges! Some of you may disagree, for a myriad of reasons, in that case, you might want to check yourselves! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jul 13 - 12:27 PM Oh, and one more very real aspect...Zimmerman now has grounds for a very real MASSIVE false arrest lawsuit! We'll see how it goes... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Jul 13 - 12:19 PM OK..OK OK..Calm down, and get your FACTS straight..Hear me out, I was correct before, now I'm going to clue you in, OBJECTIVELY, as I was doing before. First of all, as to race, which is everyone's REAL concern, there were six women on the jury, and if you scroll back, you'll see my post on that, and to the prosecution's closing statement to them. I said that it would be a debate amongst them, as to which way it would go, EMOTIONS vs EVIDENCE. All it took was ONE juror to not go along with either way, and it would have been a 'hung jury'. In case some of you didn't know, one of the women is black. Therefore, I believe that they went through some detailed analysis sorting out the EMOTIONS vs EVIDENCE. (either that or they REALLY resented the prosecution for exploiting their maternal instincts, which I don't know to be a fact, but We'll be listening to the interviews with the jurors, for any trace of it. I don't think they would come right out and say it though. Second: Had this not been politically pressured, and influenced by the President's remarks, Jackson, and Sharpton, at the onset, to stir it up, the investigation could have gone on PROCEDURALLY ...but it was rushed through, pandering to the EMOTIONAL elements, and the pressure from the 'activists', trying to make a name for themselves. In doing so, they replaced the D.A. with Corey, who erroneously proceeded to by-pass letting it go to the Grand Jury, who would have been able to accurately find the appropriate charge to charge Zimmerman with. She royally fucked up!..but the pressure was on, and she was going to champion it. She went for the unprovable 2nd degree murder charge. She is an asshole! Third: As to, the civil charges. I don't know if you know this or not, but the 'stand your ground' law, completely nullifies that. whether you agree with the law, or not, because of it, a civil wrongful death suit would have no legs...at all, and might not even be able to be filed, despite the 'news' media's pundits, expounding otherwise...and the self defense argument might really fuck up any federal civil rights charges, as well...so don't hold your breath. However, if they proceed to file RECKLESSLY, as they did originally, this is going to be just another fiasco...but you never know with the dickhead running the VERY corrupt DOJ!! As it is now, I AM relieved (so far) to see the re-action by the public has been SO FAR peaceful. If the wannabe activists, wallowing in the 'racial civil rights struggle nostalgia'(Jackson, Sharpton and the likes) start trying to whip it up, then THEY should be charged with conspiracy to incite civil unrest! Sharpton made some remarks, which I posted in a link, which I agreed with, urging people to be calm. Truth to tell, Sharpton had an idea how this was going to turn out, and he HAD to urge people to stay calm, after he helped whip up the 'so-called racial outrage', because if he didn't, he KNEW his days of being seen as some sort of 'spokesman for civil rights' were over..and he would be seen as irrelevant!..and FACT is, he's made a LOT of money promoting racial divisions and exploiting them! As far as the verdict, those women went with the known and accepted EVIDENCE pertaining to the LETTER OF THE LAW, over the emotional pandering that they had presenting to them. I don't think it was altogether an easy verdict for them, because MANY people think that Zimmerman should have drawn some legal responsibility for his part in the situation..but given the choices they had, thanks to a rush to judgement from the political pressure to exploit, and in doing so, bi-passing the Grand Jury, they reached the LEGALLY correct verdict, given the choices they had to work with. My last post, I posted the manslaughter statute of Florida. As you can see, the prosecution did not broach the subject, to produce the EVIDENCE, to prove that it was manslaughter, during the trial, and once again, you can't convict anyone without evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt. Don't get pissed at me...I'm just the messenger..and those are the FACTS, without a personal opinion, of which way you might think I was 'hoping' for. As per aforementioned, "I don't have a pig in the race!" You can celebrate, or grumble on your own...as long as it it peaceful and nobody else gets hurt or killed, through any related acts of stupidity, because of the verdict. Glad to have been of service, to define the LEGAL aspects... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Elmore Date: 14 Jul 13 - 11:59 AM Watched more of this circus than I should've.I'm not sure the prosecution made its case. Hoped against hope for a verdict of manslaughter. Justice was not served. Yet the Supreme Court (most of it) thinks racism is dead. They should check that out with Trayvon Martin's folks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 13 - 11:43 AM Greg, There is such a fund... Google TrayvonMartin.com and see if that works... Yo, Jeri, I guess you were perfectly okay with the O.J. Simpson verdict, as well... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 14 Jul 13 - 11:36 AM Would some kind elf remove the heavily underlined mess please. Some days I bloody hate HTML Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 14 Jul 13 - 11:34 AM ""Personally, I would have not liked a mug like that following me, either. I think BOTH of them had reason to 'suspect' each other...That being said, NEITHER of them had the right, or reasonable cause, to initiate anything!"""" One of them said, I reached for my phone(dubious, when facing a possible aggressor). The other without doubt saw that move toward a pocket by a non uniformed man who might easily have been a mugger, and couldn't possibly predict what would come out of that pocket, but might very reasonably have surmised that it would be a gun. So he would seem to be covered by the "Stand your Ground" law, if he pre-empted an expected attack. The only possible reason why he was not accorded that right under Florida Law is the colour of his skin. That is not an emotional response, it is a fact. HOWEVER: We now know that blacks in Florida do not warrant the protection of the state's own laws, and should stay indoors after dark, because it's open season if they don't. The Judge and the Defence have confirmed vigilante law for blacks, with the collusion of the most inept prosecution team in recent history, and the murderer of an innocent teenager walks free, exactly as expected. I sincerely hope that nobody will carry out a death threat on Zimmerman, because I believe he should live out his life as the pariah he deserves to be, with the constant fear that somebody might! Don T. |
