BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 08:09 AM

The death of Trayvon Martin was a tragedy. Not just for his family, or for any one community, but for America. I know this case has elicited strong passions. And in the wake of the verdict, I know those passions may be running even higher. But we are a nation of laws, and a jury has spoken. I now ask every American to respect the call for calm reflection from two parents who lost their young son. And as we do, we should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to widen the circle of compassion and understanding in our own communities. We should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to stem the tide of gun violence that claims too many lives across this country on a daily basis. We should ask ourselves, as individuals and as a society, how we can prevent future tragedies like this. As citizens, that's a job for all of us. That's the way to honor Trayvon Martin.




http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/14/statement-presidenthttp://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/14/s

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 08:27 AM

African Americans benefit from Florida's "Stand Your Ground" self-defense law at a rate far out of proportion to their presence in the state's population, despite an assertion by Attorney General Eric Holder that repealing "Stand Your Ground" would help African Americans.

Black Floridians have made about a third of the state's total "Stand Your Ground" claims in homicide cases, a rate nearly double the black percentage of Florida's population. The majority of those claims have been successful, a success rate that exceeds that for Florida whites.

Nonetheless, prominent African Americans including Holder and "Ebony and Ivory" singer Stevie Wonder, who has vowed not to perform in the Sunshine State until the law is revoked, have made "Stand Your Ground" a central part of the Trayvon Martin controversy.


http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/blacks-benefit-from-florida-stand-your-ground-law-at-disproportionate-rate/

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 08:31 AM

Who's Joshua Chellew? The fact that you don't know his name is the whole point. But that's not your fault.

Marietta Daily Journal, 7/3/13:

Four south Cobb teenagers are in custody in connection with the beating death of a 36-year-old Mableton man on Mableton Parkway early Sunday morning…
They have been accused in the beating death of Joshua Heath Chellew, 36…
According to the warrant, the four teenagers are accused of starting a fight with Chellew at a Chevron gas station in the 6200 block of Mableton Parkway near Community Drive at about 1:20 a.m. Sunday. They repeatedly punched and kicked him, according to police.
While attempting to escape, Chellew backed into the center five-lane highway and was pushed to the ground and knocked unconscious, the warrant states.
They then walked away from Chellew, "leaving him helpless," and he was eventually hit by a car, the warrant states.
A horrible, senseless murder. Why hasn't it received wider attention?

Courtesy of Top Conservative News, which notes:

If the races had been reversed, this would be the biggest news story in the United States. It would have knocked the Zimmerman trial out of the news.
Yep. Or, if Chellew had been able to defend himself against one or all of them, he'd be the new George Zimmerman. We'd be seeing baby pictures of his attackers. Al Sharpton would be marching. Jay Carney would be filibustering away all questions about Obama's latest race-baiting. MSNBC would be on full alert.

But Chellew wasn't able to defend himself. He probably deserved it, right? I mean, just look at him. You can't get any whiter than that.

Just another creepy-ass cracker.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 08:36 AM

http://mdjonline.com/view/full_story/23037003/article-Mableton-teens-linked-to-gang-are-accused-in-beating-death?


And the calls here for a Civil Rights investigation??? Obviously racial, obviously a hate crime... and obviously ignored by the "liberals" here that keep promoting lynchings, as long as the victim is non-black.

Two weeks after the Martin killing, there were demonstrations- two weeks after the Chellew murder, not a word from anyone....

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 08:42 AM

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — Four of the jurors at the George Zimmerman trial distanced themselves late Tuesday from statements that another juror made in a televised interview.

The four jurors issued a brief statement on court stationary saying that the opinions expressed by Juror B37 to CNN's Anderson Cooper on Monday night are not representative of their views.

"The opinions of Juror B37, expressed on the Anderson Cooper show were her own, and not in any way representative of the jurors listed below," said the statement, signed by Jurors B51, B76, E6 and E40.

Juror B37 said the actions of Zimmerman and 17-year-old Trayvon Martin both led to the teenager's fatal shooting last year, but that Zimmerman didn't actually break the law.

The four other jurors said in their statement that Martin's death weighed on them.

People gather during a rally organized by the Act Now to Stop War and End Racism (ANSWER) coalition …
"Serving on this jury has been a highly emotional and physically draining experience for each of us," the statement said. "The death of a teenager weighed heavily on our hearts but in the end we did what the law required us to do."

They also made a request for privacy. The court has not released the names of the six-woman jury, which included five whites and one woman who appeared to reporters to be Hispanic.

The interview came two days after the jury acquitted Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch volunteer, of second-degree murder in the shooting death of Martin in a gated community in Sanford, Fla. Martin was black, and Zimmerman identifies himself as Hispanic. Zimmerman was not arrested for 44 days, and the delay in charging him led to protests from those who believed race was a factor in the handling of the case.

While prosecutors accused Zimmerman of profiling Martin, Zimmerman maintained he acted in self-defense. He claimed Martin was slamming his head into the concrete sidewalk when he fired the gun.

In the CNN interview, Juror B37 said she didn't believe that Zimmerman followed Martin because of his race. She said Zimmerman made some mistakes, but that she believed Martin struck Zimmerman first and that the neighborhood watch volunteer had a right to defend himself.

Juror B37 said the jurors were initially divided on Zimmerman's guilt, with three jurors believing he was guilty of either manslaughter or second-degree murder, but that the jury agreed to acquit the 29-year-old Zimmerman after more closely reviewing the law.

In a part of the interview that aired Tuesday, Juror B37 said it wouldn't have made much difference if Zimmerman had testified at trial since she believes he would have gave the same story he gave investigators in videotaped police interviews that were played at the trial.

Juror B37 said at one point it appeared they might be heading to a hung jury as another juror wanted to leave. The other jurors convinced her to stay.

Juror B37 said a block of concrete that defense attorney Mark O'Mara placed in front of jurors during closing arguments made an impression, as did photos of Zimmerman's bloodied head. She also believed Martin's actions contributed to his death.

"I think George got in a little bit too deep, which he shouldn't have been there, but Trayvon decided that he wasn't going to let him scare him and get the one-over, up on him or something," she said. "I think Trayvon got mad and attacked him. "

By not walking away from the confrontation, the juror said of Martin, "I believe he played a huge role in his death."

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 08:59 AM

Seems that the KKK wing here at Mudcat is posting furiously over and over and over... Just look at the last 30 or so posts... Do you see a pattern???

Seems that the KKK wing thinks if it posts often and loud enough that that alone will justify the murder of a black teenager armed with a bag of candy...

Maybe the KKK wing should quit posting here and go burn some crosses to get all their pent up hate satisfied... No, maybe they'd rather get a gun and shoot another black teenager...

Bottom line??? Ya'll can put up 1,000,000 posts before I come back here to this thread but guess what... You are still the KKKers here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 09:09 AM

So, Bobert, as a true southerner, what were you doing back in the 50's/ How many blacks did you lynch back in your youth?

I have posted facts- You have not, yet you post attacks on all that disagree with you. Your opinion is that- an opinion, not factual or even based on evidence, it seems.

You state that liars should not be believed, yet you are the main liar here, with "Bobert Facts" that have been proven false that you continue to insist on.

There were more Palestinian refugees in 1948 than the entire population of Palestine of all religion.
Gaza has the highest population density in the world- EXCEPT for Hong Kong, Singapore, New York, Mexico City...
Everyone in the South is just as racist as Bobert is- And he knows racism better than anyone else.

You are a liar, a racist, and a scumbag, like you friend Greggie boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 09:16 AM

JUROR: No, I think he just profiled him because he was the neighborhood watch, and he profiled anyone who came in acting strange. I think it was just circumstances happened that he saw Trayvon at the exact time that he thought he was suspicious.

When exactly was it established that Trayvon Martin was "acting strange"? What's our source for that? And the second statement makes no sense at all. I thought she also said George Zimmerman used poor judgement. Now she seems to be chalking it up to mere fate.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 09:43 AM

Bobert, I think your overreaction to Bruce's post are 'maybe just a little over the top'..Bruce is not a wing of the KKK. He is merely pointing out that the FORCED overreactions, are contrived and distorted to the facts of the case. I know he gets criticized for posting 'cut and paste' texts..BUT, his texts are usually without his personal rantings. They are articles from reliable sources, which seem to be overlooked, in the wake of those who are forming EMOTIONAL responses.
The trial was FORCED through WITHOUT going to a Grand Jury, to sort out, with investigations, and without suppressed evidence, to be able to charge Zimmerman appropriately. It IS that SAME EMOTIONALISM that caused this case to be rammed through, WITHOUT proper protocol.. Nobody is doubting that there is racial biases in the South..BOTH fucking ways,,and it is that SAME, mindless EMOTIONALISM that is perpetuating the hostile biases!!! Can't you see that??..Maybe if YOU and other people that are out of control, would be in a frame of mind, other than hostility, maybe someone would listen. Hostility doesn't bring harmony. Hostility doesn't bring justice. Hostility doesn't bring dialogue. Hostility doesn't bring anything more than more hostility!!..and yet, you SAY you want the hostility of blacks to end11???!!?? YOU are prolonging it!!! RECONCILIATION comes with UNDERSTANDING...NOT block-headed stonewalling!!..either way. It reminds me of an old sticker I used to have, "Fighting for peace, is like fucking for virginity!"
What is your point of the ranting??..to bring it to trial????...it already went there. Perhaps, Trayvon gets a pass, and everybody looks the other way, disregarding that he threw the first punch!! That was racial, and hostile..and you think agitating hostility and more racism is going to stop that?????????? NO, IT MAKES MORE! Did you see the articles about WHY Trayvon was staying with his dad??..It was because he was suspended from school, for tagging lockers, vandalism, and drugs, and having stolen property..AND the article goes on to say, that in school surveillance videos he is seen looking suspicious....but if the Neighborhood Watch guy, says he was looking suspicious, the FIRST thing you guys do, is say that it was because of his race!..Was that the same reason the school spokesman said it too?..MAYBE HE WAS up to something..maybe he wasn't before Zimmerman crossed paths with him....from the re-actions of a lot of stupid people, it is apparent that THEY are the racists, and pretty fucking lame ones at that! Nobody bitches when black on white crimes, and beatings, and death occurs, as Bruce points out..nobody bitches about black on black crimes occur (except Bill Cosby had some stern, honest words)..but you apologetics just keep fanning the fires, as if you were the 'set-up' crew for the KKK!!
Hostility breeds more hostility!!! Understanding and acceptance breeds reconciliation!! ARE YOU INTERESTED???????...or out for more blood??. Black and white are skin colors, blood is red...how much more needs to spill, before you get your satisfaction????
Shit, I can't believe I'm having to tell a grown man this!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 09:56 AM


When exactly was it established that Trayvon Martin was "acting strange"? What's our source for that?

Before Z had done anything for which he could possibly criticised, still sitting in his car, he called the police and said,"Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, it's Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about."

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 10:14 AM

Yo, GfinS...

I am not reacting to bb, who BTW I do not so much as look at, as much as I am commenting on the number of posts by you and the other KKKers here... That's all...

Seems that ya'll think that you can win this debate by just posting and posting and posting and posting... Just looking at the shear numbers of posts tells ya' which side looks to be trying to drown out discussion...

Reminds me of immature guitar players who try to cover up their lack of talent by playing loud and too many notes...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 11:45 AM

Some facts on the special prosecutor...


JULY 17, 2013 4:00 AM
Angela Corey's Checkered Past
Her peers describe an M.O. of retaliation and overcharging.
By Ian Tuttle

Shortly after Dershowitz's criticisms, Harvard Law School's dean's office received a phone call. When the dean refused to pick up, Angela Corey spent a half hour demanding of an office-of-communications employee that Dershowitz be fired. According to Dershowitz, Corey threatened to sue Harvard, to try to get him disbarred, and also to sue him for slander and libel. Corey also told the communications employee that she had assigned a state investigator — an employee of the State of Florida, that is — to investigate Dershowitz. "That's an abuse of office right there," Dershowitz says.

What happened in the weeks and months that followed was instructive. Dershowitz says that he was flooded with correspondence from people telling him that this is Corey's well-known M.O. He says numerous sources — lawyers who had sparred with Corey in the courtroom, lawyers who had worked with and for her, and even multiple judges — informed him that Corey has a history of vigorously attacking any and all who criticize her. But it's worse than that: Correspondents told him that Corey has a history of overcharging and withholding evidence.
The Zimmerman trial is a clear case of the former and a probable case of the latter. Zimmerman was charged with second-degree murder, also known as "depraved mind" murder. The case law for that charge, an attorney who has worked in criminal prosecution outside Florida tells me, is near-unanimous: It almost never applies to one-on-one encounters. Second-degree murder is the madman who fires indiscriminately into a crowd or unlocks the lions' cage at the zoo. "Nothing in the facts of this case approaches that." Which Angela Corey, a veteran prosecutor, should have known, and a grand jury would have told her. In fact, both the initial police investigation and the original state attorney in charge of the case had determined exactly that: There was no evidence of any crime, much less second-degree murder

But that did not stop Corey from zealously overcharging and — the facts suggest — withholding evidence to ensure that that charge stuck.

Still, by the end of the case it was clear that the jury was unlikely to convict Zimmerman of second-degree murder; hence the prosecution's addition of a manslaughter charge — as well as its attempt to add a charge for third-degree murder by way of child abuse — after the trial had closed. "In 50 years of practice I've never seen anything like it," says Dershowitz. It's a permissible maneuver, but as a matter of professional ethics it's a low blow.

Corey's post-trial performance has been less than admirable as well. Asked in a prime-time interview with HLN how she would describe George Zimmerman, Corey responded, "Murderer." Attorneys who spoke with me called her refusal to acknowledge the validity of the jury's verdict everything from "disgusting" to "disgraceful."

But will Corey ever be disciplined for prosecutorial abuses? It's unlikely. State attorneys cannot be brought before the bar while they remain in office. Complaints can be filed against Corey, but they will be deferred until she is no longer state attorney. The governor can remove her from office, but otherwise her position — and her license — are safe.

Meanwhile, those who speak out against her continue to be mistreated. Ben Kruidbos (pronounced CRIED-boss), the IT director at Corey's state-attorney office, was fired last week — one month after testifying during the Zimmerman trial that Corey had withheld from defense attorneys evidence obtained from Trayvon Martin's cell phone. Corey's office contends that Kruidbos was fired for poor job performance and for leaking personnel records. The termination notice delivered to Kruidbos last Friday read: "You have proven to be completely untrustworthy. Because of your deliberate, wilful and unscrupulous actions, you can never again be trusted to step foot in this office." Less than two months before this letter, Kruidbos had received a raise for "meritorious performance."

The records in question — Kruidbos maintains he had nothing to do with leaking them — revealed that Corey used $235,000 in taxpayer money to upgrade her pension and that of her co-prosecutor in the Zimmerman case, Bernie de la Rionda. The upgrade was legal, but Harry Shorstein, Corey's predecessor, had said previously that using taxpayer funds to upgrade pensions was not "proper."

Meanwhile, while Kruidbos has been forced out of the state attorney's office, the managing director who wrote his termination letter — one Cheryl Peek — remains. In 1990 Peek was fired from the same state attorney's office by Harry Shorstein's predecessor, Ed Austin, for jury manipulation. Now, as managing director for that office, she trains lawyers in professional ethics.

Since her election, Corey seems to be determinedly purging from the ranks any who cross her and surrounding herself with inferiors whose ethical scruples appear to mirror her own. Meanwhile, those she chooses to victimize — most recently, George Zimmerman — far too often have little recourse.

"Make crime pay," Will Rogers once quipped: "Become a lawyer." Angela Corey seems to be less interested in making crime pay than in making her critics pay.



http://nationalreview.com/article/353633/angela-coreys-checkered-past-ian-tuttle/page/0/1?splash

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 11:54 AM

The principal takeaway from the Zimmerman trial and verdict is that the greatness of America and its people still vastly exceeds the corruption and in many respects, the outright evil of its justice system. More important by far were the dignity and stoicism of the defendant and the eloquence and simply hewn moral strength of his counsel, than the mealy-mouthed pieties of the egregious state attorney general and the sanctimony of the defeated prosecutors. More eloquent than all, perhaps, was the silence of the jury after each had confirmed the verdict: "Not guilty." It was an inexpressible relief to find anyone associated with an American trial, in particular those most importantly involved in it apart from the defendant, whose chief purpose did not appear to be garrulously to inflict upon the parched and biased media their vapid expatiations on everything.

In this case, the judge, like most American judges in criminal cases, was an ex-prosecutor and acted effectively as part of the prosecution. She was biased in her rulings and abusive and injudiciously rude in her manner, and she did her best to salvage something for the prosecution by giving the jury the right to find guilty on a lesser charge at the very end of the trial. Prosecutors win 99.5 percent of their cases in the United States, an unheard of figure in the democratic world (about 60 percent in Canada and just over 50 percent in Great Britain are convicted, and in both countries the procedural rules are equal, the media are discouraged from poisoning the wells of the jury pools and lynching the defendants before the trial begins, and the defense speaks last to the jury). Of these 99.5 percent, 97 percent are without trial, after prosecution manipulation of the plea bargain so that everyone who has ever met the target can be given immunity from perjury prosecution and told that if their memories do not produce something useful to the government they will be charged as co-conspirators with the defendant. In the countries mentioned, and many others, prosecutors would be disbarred for what is routine in the United States.

So those who go to trial in the U.S. have about a one in six chance of not being convicted: grim, but not hopeless odds. In the Zimmerman case, there were no witnesses to the fatal and tragic encounter between the defendant and the deceased, Trayvon Martin, so the abuse of the plea bargain could not thicken and serry the ranks of prosecution stooges repeating their rehearsed lines like parrots reciting the catechism extracted from them by prosecutors as the condition for not prosecuting them, the lugubrious farce featured in most American criminal trials. The Sanford police did not want to charge Zimmerman, because there was no evidence, from witnesses or forensic analysis, to contradict his story that it was a case of self-defense. So there would be no men in blue testifying under oath to his guilt and no chance for a cops-are-tops Manichaean bout between the Society of Laws and the Forces of Darkness. (The problem with American justice is not and never was that the country is a police state. If anything, it is still under-policed, and though there are many imperfections in the constabulary, the police in general are competent if given the right orders. The problem is the prosecutors, who are out of control policemen in suits performing in front of judges who are prosecutors in robes, for the benefit of jurors an inordinate number of whom are the dregs of society.)

Deprived of the usual stacked deck, the prosecution, roused to action by that ineffable pillar of popular theology and racial harmony, the Reverend Al Sharpton, relied not just on playing the race card and, as Johnnie Cochrane's co-counsel said of him in the O. J. Simpson case, dealing it "off the bottom of the deck." It emulated the opening of My Little Chickadee, where W. C. Fields, faced with a hand of four aces, put down five aces and claimed the pot. The attorney general, Eric Holder, urged pro-Trayvon demonstrations, presumably because he prejudged Zimmerman to be guilty, and the president, in the most distressingly novel aspect of the case, averred that if he had had a son, he would look like the deceased. No previous U.S. president had so prejudicially inserted himself in a criminal proceeding. And the national media, showing again why they are distrusted by most and why the following of the main traditional television networks and periodicals has shriveled for decades, joined the liberal political establishment in trying to make the case a watershed against racial profiling and the full panoply of minority grievances. George Zimmerman was to be a symbol, a metaphor turned on the spit over the fire of racial bigotry. The New York Times invented the term "white Hispanic" to deprive the target of minority sympathy, but at least that newspaper, whose controlling shareholders would probably not like to be described as "Anglo-Saxonoid Jews," stopped short of inciting the inference, as some of the African-American media allegedly did, that he was a Jew. The CNN legal correspondent, an attractive and articulate ex-prosecutor, Sunny Hostin, was rabidly partisan and commented at the merciful end that "Justice has taken a holiday." I think not, but any sense of professionalism she may have, did.

Every informed person in the Western world knows that African Americans and other minorities have many grievances, and no reasonable person would make light of them. But acting on them to demand a murder trial of someone against whom there is no evidence, and attempting to compensate for the absence of evidence with a hysterical smear campaign to which most of the traditional media subscribed, and for which the great offices of president and attorney general of the United States were willfully degraded by their occupants is, as defense co-counsel Don West said, "disgraceful." When pressed, Mr. West expressed the wish to retain his license to practice law, indicating how disrespectful his candid comments on the Florida prosecutorial establishment and the local bench would be. Withal, the deliberate decision of the jury, delivered without elaboration, the unpretentious and very dignified remarks of the defense counsel, and the sober operation of the system of justice as it is supposed to operate, made it a great hour for America. The hour is made more gratifying and majestic, not sullied, by the hyena-calls for a civil-rights prosecution, and the inevitable fatuities and fictions of the humiliated prosecutors that America, despite the verdict, has "the best justice system in the world," meaning the one that allows them to conduct such a mockery as they did in this case.

President Obama's concluding comments were unexceptionable: "The jury has spoken . . . " etc. It has, against him. Apart from the outrage of his intervention in the case, the whole misconceived and over-heated drama highlights the danger of the Obama policy. It need not be so, but there is some truth to the familiar concern that once voters realize that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury, democracy is on the skids. Politicians pander to the redistributive instinct. Franklin D. Roosevelt is unjustly reviled by enemies of the present welfare state, but he opposed the dole and would not pay able-bodied people to be idle. On everything he said that is recorded, he would be appalled at the abuses of the system that now exist in most Western countries for taking money from those who have earned it and giving it out on an unrigorous basis to those who have not, in presumed exchange for the votes of the recipients. The exact figures are disputed, but there is no doubt that the president's section of the voters in last year's election has a lower standard of living, higher unemployment, crime, and welfare-dependency rates, and the great majority of public-sector employees. It was a fair election. A candidate has to pitch to his base; Mr. Obama was better organized, and the winning candidate, unless it is a landslide, always to some degree games the system. There is nothing wrong with any of that. But this administration has aggravated the divisions in the country, not only as an electoral tactic; there is plenty of precedent for that, including from some distinguished presidents; but as premeditated policy. This is unnecessary, dangerous, and bad. The optimists will hope that the president has burned his fingers in the Zimmerman case and will try, for the balance of his term, to maintain the dignity of the highest office within the gift of the American people. If it happens, to quote Dr. Johnson, I would not only be surprised, I would be astonished.

By Conrad Black

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 11:58 AM

Former O.J. Simpson prosecutor Marcia Clark told Newsmax TV that the George Zimmerman murder trial was never going to be a "slam dunk" for Florida prosecutors.

"I came into this case thinking it was a tough case for the prosecution," said Clark in an exclusive interview on Tuesday. "I was open about that from day one. Never thought this was a slam dunk because it's difficult in all self-defense cases when there are only two witnesses — and one is dead."

Clark said juries often have difficulty getting at the truth in cases such as Zimmerman's.

She believes that the Zimmerman case hinged largely on the state's key witness — Rachel Jeantel, who was on the phone with Trayvon Martin in his final minutes of life.

"They did a good job. They had a tough uphill battle; there is no doubt about it," she said of Florida prosecutors in the case. "They had to rely on putting together a very circumstantial case — much of it based on inconsistent statements by George Zimmerman . . . It's up to the jury to decide how important they think the inconsistency is."

While the Zimmerman case was "very different factually" from the "trial of the century" nearly 18 years ago, both cases had at least one similarity that may have played into the not guilty verdicts.

"The jury in the Zimmerman case had their life view and the jury in the Simpson case had theirs," she said. It's part of our jury system, that we want people to bring their life experience into the mix.

"We want them to bring their commonsense based on their life experience into the evaluation of evidence, but the problem is that all of their experiences come in — not just the ones you think are most helpful — to an objective view of the facts."

For example, she said, some jurors may be less trusting of police, or have an opinion about neighborhood watch groups in the case of Zimmerman, who was a neighborhood watch volunteer.

She pointed to one apparent inconsistency in Zimmerman's account of his encounter with the 17-year-old Martin.

"George Zimmerman thought Trayvon Martin jumped out of the bushes, and then the next day was unable to find any bushes he could have jumped out of," Clark explained. "One person looks at that and says, 'wow evidence that he lied.' Another person looks at that and says, 'so, he made a mistake.' That's always a difficult case. So they did the best they could with the case they had."

Simpson, a former NFL star, actor, and sports commentator, was acquitted by a Los Angeles jury in October 1995 in connection with the grisly stabbing murders of his ex-wife and her friend after one of the most publicized and racially charged criminal trials in U.S. history.

Clark believes the media can have unintended consequences in such cases.

"Witnesses who are afraid of the spotlight and don't want that kind of scrutiny, don't want to come forward, minimize their testimony, and sometimes never get found because they don't want to be found," she said.

"Some witnesses who want — for whatever reason — the spotlight, love it, and are not really witnesses — what I call faux-witnesses — make up stuff or exaggerate what little information they have so that they can get the spotlight," according to Clark, who recently authored, "Killer Ambition," about a female prosecutor, who takes on the case of a Hollywood power player that puts her in the middle of the media spotlight.

"Some judges really don't get affected by it at all, as we've seen Judge Nelson in the Zimmerman trial as well as Judge Perry in the Casey Anthony trial did a brilliant job of just being excellent jurists not affected by the media — held everybody's feet to the fire, and enforced the rules of evidence fairly across the board," Clark observed.

"On the other hand, not all judges can resist the allure of instant fame and then things go crazy and the courtroom is out of control," she said, adding that she's not sure she approves of cameras in the courtroom. "To that extent, that's a bad thing. Lawyers pander to the camera — some do. Some don't. But the effect is not necessarily in the service of justice."

Although Simpson was found guilty in a civil court and ordered to pay a multi-million dollar judgment to the families of his late wife and her friend, he has yet to pay up, she said.

Martin's family has yet to say whether they will file a civil suit against the 29-year-old Zimmerman.

"They're enforceable to a point but it doesn't really take that much to avoid them," she explained. "So while the Martin family may well sue — and may well prevail in civil court as did the plaintiffs in the lawsuit against Simpson — but whether that is of any benefit, I'm just not sure about that."

Editor's Note: Should Obama Use Zimmerman Verdict to Ban Guns?

Unlike criminal cases, where juries must find someone guilty beyond a "reasonable doubt," they need only find some culpable beyond a "preponderance of evidence" in a civil case.

"I don't think anybody ever really collects money on these judgments and I don't think that is ultimately really the point either," she said. "It is possible they (Martin's family) will prevail in civil court."

She said the double-jeopardy rule would not apply if the U.S. Department of Justice decides to bring federal civil rights charges against Zimmerman.

"Just because you're acquitted in state court doesn't mean a federal court can't take the case," she said. "So the U.S. attorney can certainly do it. Whether they will or not is a different matter."

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: redhorse
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:12 PM

"By Conrad Black "

Is that Conrad Black the convicted criminal?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:13 PM

The undisputed KING of cut and paste as well as the biggest asshole in any three states strikes again. The dumbfuck cannot stick to any point but issues a blitzkrieg from his own collection racist bullshit............

Blow Me Bruce........


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:18 PM

Spaw,

Glad to see you uphold the "Liberal View" with the best set of facts you have- that you need to be blown.



Go off with Greggie and Bobert and burn some more crosses. Or lynch someone who disagrees with you- that is more your speed.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:26 PM

MIAMI (AP) — The Justice Department will sift through trial testimony, interviews and other evidence during what is likely to be a months-long investigation into whether George Zimmerman violated Trayvon Martin's civil rights when he shot the black teenager.

The key to charging Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch volunteer, lies in whether evidence exists that he was motivated by racial animosity to kill Martin, who was 17 when he was shot during a fight with Zimmerman in February 2012. And while Martin's family has said the teen was racially profiled, no evidence surfaced during the state trial that Zimmerman had a racial bias.

Former Miami federal prosecutor David S. Weinstein says it will likely be months before a decision is made on whether to bring charges.

Zimmerman, 29, was acquitted of second-degree murder and manslaughter charges after claiming he fired his weapon in self-defense only after Martin attacked him. His friends and family have repeatedly denied he harbored racial animosity toward blacks. Florida did not use its own hate crime laws against Zimmerman.

Legal experts say the FBI and prosecutors will go back through the interviews done before the state case began; look at all the forensics such as crime scene records and medical reports; and review the state's witnesses to see if any who did not testify might have important information.

However, investigators are not limited to existing evidence; they can pursue new evidence and conduct new interviews as they see fit. For instance, federal investigators could look more closely at Zimmerman's past for any evidence of racial bias.

"They are going to need to do a thorough vetting of the facts. It takes time," said Lauren Resnick, a former prosecutor who obtained a guilty verdict in a 1991 New York hate crime case involving the stabbing death of an Orthodox Jew. Those defendants had been acquitted in state court.

In a speech Tuesday to an NAACP convention in Orlando, Attorney General Eric Holder said "I am concerned" about the Zimmerman case and pledged the Justice Department will conduct a thorough review.

"While that inquiry is ongoing, I can promise that the Department of Justice will consider all available information before determining what action to take," he said.

The lone juror in the case who has spoken publicly — known only as Juror B37 because their identities have not been released — said Monday that she did not believe Zimmerman followed Martin because the teen was black.

Still, supporters of the Justice Department filing civil rights charges say additional evidence could exist in the federal investigation that didn't come up in the state prosecution of Zimmerman, possibly even witnesses who have not previously been interviewed or did not come up in the state case.

"They have a separate set of evidence they're looking at," said Barbara Arnwine, president and executive director of the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law. "They might have additional witnesses that were never called upon by the state. I think they will make the best decision that is possible in this case and they will pursue what they think is legally possible."

Several civil rights groups, including the NAACP, are demanding that the Justice Department bring federal charges against Zimmerman, and there have been numerous protests around the country about the outcome of the Florida trial.

During a news conference Tuesday, the Rev. Al Sharpton acknowledged there are hurdles. But he said there remains a fundamental question of "does Trayvon Martin and the Trayvon Martins of this country have the civil right to go home?"

He added: "... we have some experience on how to deal with hurdles and we see that as part of our strategy."

Beyond the exact language of the law itself, the federal probe must navigate between sensitive racial and political issues that arose when Zimmerman initially wasn't charged in Martin's killing.

"Many people simply cannot process how an unarmed teenager is killed, and yet no one is held criminally accountable for his death," said Marcellus McRae, a former federal prosecutor in Los Angeles.

Resnick said a federal jury would have to find beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman had a racial motive when he began following Martin and that he did not act in self-defense when he fired his gun.

"There remains the serious challenge that prosecutors still have to prove the racial motive," she said.

Zimmerman could get life in prison if charged and convicted under federal hate crime laws.

Generally, the Justice Department is reluctant to get involved in cases that have already been tried before a state jury, in part because of concerns about double jeopardy.

Perhaps the best-known example where federal prosecutors did intervene was the case of four police officers acquitted after a California state trial in the beating of motorist Rodney King, which triggered deadly riots in the Los Angeles area in 1992.

Two of the four officers were convicted in federal court of violating King's rights, but that case differs from Zimmerman's because they were acting as sworn law enforcement officials, not as a private citizen claiming self-defense.

In contrast, the Justice Department declined to prosecute New York Police Department officers after they were acquitted in the 2006 shootings of three men including Sean Bell, who was fatally wounded the morning of his planned wedding. The short Justice Department statement — issued in 2010, four years after the shooting — simply said there was insufficient evidence to proceed.

"Neither accident, mistake, fear, negligence nor bad judgment is sufficient to establish a federal criminal civil rights violation," the department said in the Bell case.


http://news.yahoo.com/feds-sift-evidence-zimmerman-case-170642843.html

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:45 PM

Not commenting on the OP here. Just a stylistic comment. In many/most conversations, unless the "speaker" is making some scintillating point, I usually turn off my interest after probably 'bout 150 - 200 words or so. (Note that that is not 140 CHARACTERS, which is a whole 'nother matter.) If the point is that long and the speaker doesn't let me catch my breath or interject my own comments or questions, I am leaving.

Just a stylistic point; not a comment on the subject matter.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:58 PM

Thank you, Saul...

You, of course, are a rational adult who understands the art of having a discussion where you say something and then the other party says something...

Unfortunately, we have irrational adult wantabees who think that if they SHOUT or post lots and lots of blogs that that makes their point of view more important than anyone else's... The problem with this irrational thinking is that they are doing a disservice to their position because people will just pass these long winded, truth challenged blogs and go on to the next poster who...

...may be another rational adult...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:58 PM

beardedbruce: you sure do get yourself in a pile of shit from time to time. That's an observation, not a criticism.


"The first one might have been a 'bad link', 'cuz the second one is the same one..I couldn't tell the difference...

GfS"

It's great to see your sense of humor returning at last.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:59 PM

"ORLANDO, Fla. -- A court employee who retrieved photos and deleted text messages from Trayvon Martin's cellphone has been placed on administrative leave after an attorney testified that prosecutors didn't properly turn over the evidence to the defense, an attorney said Wednesday.

Former prosecutor Wesley White said he was ethically obligated to reveal that Fourth Judicial Circuit Information Technology Director Ben Kruidbos retrieved the data that weren't turned over.

Kruidbos was placed on leave shortly after White testified during a hearing in George Zimmerman's second-degree murder case on Tuesday. White said Kruidbos was interviewed by state attorney investigators twice before the action was taken.

White said he wasn't surprised of possible evidence violations by Zimmerman prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda.

"I was saddened by it, but I'm not surprised," he said.

White first learned about the evidence through Kruidbos more than a month ago, he said.

Phone and email messages left at the








Yep. Sure tells the whole story, and presents all the facts.


I note that the ones here that object to the discussion are determined to attack anyone who disagrees, and have not discussed the facts, the evidence presented, or even the law- They demand "Justice", ( lynching the one they decided before the trial was guilty) regardless of the legal outcome.

They are the ones who are acting as if they were KKK members- they decided guilt based on race, and ignore all facts that are presented, attacking any dissenting comment as racist when in fact it is there determination to lynch someone because of his race that is racist.

To lynch someone because he is "white" is as racist as to lynch them because they are "black"

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 01:24 PM

(Reuters) - A former employee of Florida State Attorney Angela Corey's office plans to file a whistleblower lawsuit against George Zimmerman's prosecutors, his attorney told Reuters on Tuesday.

The action will put pressure on Corey, who already faces criticism from some legal experts for the unsuccessful prosecution of the case, which led to the acquittal of Zimmerman for shooting unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman's defense has also called for sanctions against her and her prosecution team.

Ben Kruidbos, Corey's former director of information technology, was fired after testifying at a pre-trial hearing on June 6 that prosecutors failed to turn over potentially embarrassing evidence extracted from Martin's cell phone to the defense, as required by evidence-sharing laws.

"We will be filing a whistleblower action in (Florida's Fourth Judicial District) Circuit Court," said Kruidbos' attorney Wesley White, himself a former prosecutor who was hired by Corey but resigned in December because he disagreed with her prosecutorial priorities. He said the suit will be filed within the next 30 days.

Corey and lead prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda declined to comment. A spokeswoman for Corey referred Reuters to Kruidbos' termination letter, previously made public, in which Corey's office accused him of hacking confidential information from state computers.

The six-page letter, dated July 11, charges Kruidbos with "deliberate, willful and unscrupulous actions" that make him untrustworthy and calls his questioning of de la Rionda's actions regarding the cell phone evidence "a shallow, but obvious, attempt to cloak yourself in the protection of the whistleblower law."

Zimmerman was acquitted on Saturday following a five-week trial that riveted America and relaunched debates on race and guns. The verdict sparked demonstrations in some cities by those angered by the decision.

On Monday, Corey told Reuters, "Our office adhered to the highest standards of ethical behavior."

Trial law requires prosecutors to share evidence with defense attorneys, especially if it helps exonerate defendants. The requirement is known as the Brady disclosure.

Kruidbos testified last month in a pre-trial hearing that he found photos on Martin's phone that included pictures of a pile of jewelry on a bed, underage nude females, marijuana plants and a hand holding a semi-automatic pistol.

The Martin family lawyer, Benjamin Crump, did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Kruidbos had emailed de la Rionda in late January and attached a report containing the text messages and images he had retrieved from Martin's cell phone, his lawyer said.

Zimmerman's chief defense attorney Mark O'Mara has said he didn't receive the material until June, shortly before the murder trial began.

Judge Debra Nelson ruled that pictures and texts from Martin's cell phone were inadmissible, after prosecutors argued that it couldn't be proven Martin actually took the pictures and wrote the texts on his phone.

The judge has yet to rule on whether the prosecution committed any Brady violations by not handing over evidence, as alleged by Zimmerman's defense team.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/16/us-usa-florida-shooting-lawsuit-idUSBRE96F1EL20130716

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 01:27 PM

Shitwringer again, misquoting Obama!

"Could've been my son" wasn't what he said, was it?

So what did he say then?........""If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon""

So, exactly what is your objection?

The statement is succinct, respectful of the dead boy and his parents, and factually correct.

Oh, I SEE! It was true! That's what you can't stand.

You don't relate to the truth in any form, DO YOU Shitflinger?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 01:27 PM

Justice and law are often two different things. I catch a kid breaking my windows with a slingshot and I kick his ass for him, that's justice. When I'm arrested for assault, that's law. I don't see that justice has been served in this case. YMMVNMAI (NoMayAboutIt).

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 01:46 PM

Guest: "It's great to see your sense of humor returning at last."

Never left...it's all in the delivery..or something like that!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 02:34 PM

""no evidence surfaced during the state trial that Zimmerman had a racial bias.""

It might though, with a new investigation by people who actually want to find out the truth.

Every filmed interview and court record shows Zimmerman with that smug half smile of a man who knows the fix is well and truly in.

Richard Bridge showed quite conclusively that Serino had to be forced to make that recommendation that a manslaughter charge be brought, and there is no doubt that he scuppered the case, IMO deliberately.

Zimmerman's attitude from the night of the murder through to the pre-judged acquittal has been what you would see on a hunter who has bagged his quota.

He went after that N***er, and he got him, and then he got away with it.

He evn said that it was God's work! Killing a human being for buying candy!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 02:40 PM

""The principal takeaway from the Zimmerman trial and verdict is that the greatness of America and its people still vastly exceeds the corruption and in many respects, the outright evil of its justice system.""

With the exception of Florida, where that evil and corruption seems to be based.

Talk about the "BIG LIE".

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 02:48 PM

""Seems that the KKK wing thinks if it posts often and loud enough that that alone will justify the murder of a black teenager armed with a bag of candy...""

Yes Bobz! And Grand Wizard Beardie surely admires the way that the murderer smiled his way through the whole farce without ever expressing any genuine regret, any twinge of guilt, any sign of genuine empathy for the feelings of Martin's family. He even implied that God approved.

A Mafia hitman might have killed with that kind of calm equanimity.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 02:55 PM

NAACP president Benjamin Jealous said that the verdict in the George Zimmerman case is a sign that African-Americans face "times of great peril." However, if there is a peril, Mr. Jealous should look to his own community for the cause. Most of the time when a murder victim is black, the perpetrator is not a "creepy ass cracker."

Mr. Jealous wants people to believe that the isolated incident in Sanford, Florida proves there is an epidemic of white (or white-Hispanic) -on-black violence. He said blacks "feel it every time we see one of our young sons … walk out the door and pull his hoodie up." But black parents should not primarily be worried about white people gunning down their kids. According to the most recent (2011) FBI statistics, of the 2,695 murders in which the victim was black, 91% were committed by people of the same race. Whites and white-Hispanics were the perpetrator in only 193 (7%) cases. Odds are if the victim was wearing a hoodie, the perp was too.

The same pattern of intra-racial violence holds for whites. Eighty-three percent of white murders in 2011 were within-race killings, and only 14% were black on white. These data tell us that murder in America is decidedly not a matter of racial hatred.

Explicitly racially motivated murders can and do occur. SiriusXM radio host Joe Madison called the killing of Trayvon Martin "nothing more than a modern day lynching." But racial hate killings are exceedingly rare in this country. According to FBI hate crime statistics, there was only one murder or negligent manslaughter in 2011 that could be traced to anti-black sentiment. Just one. This is not exactly the wave of racial animus some commentators and social activists have warned us about.

But these same activists are spurring a wave of racially-charged violence, justifying it by the Zimmerman verdict. Blacks beat an innocent Hispanic man in Balitmore saying it is "for Trayvon." Protestors in Los Angeles and Oakland blocked major thoroughfares. Twitter has been buzzing for weeks with people threatening to start riots over the verdict if it didn't go the way they wanted. If Americans are in great peril it will be because of these hooligans, and the irresponsible race-baiters who cheer them on.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 02:55 PM

Martin Luther King Jr. is rolling over in his grave that he sacrificed his life for the cause of judging people by the content of their character instead of the color of their skin, as so many of his own race carry in in self-destructive behavior while professional race mongers blame everything on racism. It is painful and heartbreaking to say and write this, but horrifically it is true. Blacks kill more blacks in a weekend in Chicago than the evil, vile Ku Klux Klan idiots did in 50 years. Truly earth shattering insane. And not a peep from Obama or Holder. Tragic.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 02:58 PM

Don is obviously projecting his own feelings again.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:00 PM

Brucie - FUCKING CHECK IT. Serino ONLY filed the capias after he had been pressured. Can you not read, can you not understand, or do you just long for the glorious 12th when you can open fire on all black kids in white neighbourhoods? Or is it all three?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:04 PM

Dickie boy,
I stated that he recommended manslaughter charges- True or false?

TRUE He did, for whatever reason. FACT


You have abused me for a true statement- this makes you scum.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:06 PM

So, Don T, how long has it been since your last Nazi rally? You still miss the old gang?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:06 PM

""Bobert, I think your overreaction to Bruce's post are 'maybe just a little over the top'..Bruce is not a wing of the KKK. He is merely pointing out that the FORCED overreactions, are contrived and distorted to the facts of the case. I know he gets criticized for posting 'cut and paste' texts..BUT, his texts are usually without his personal rantings. They are articles from reliable sources, which seem to be overlooked, in the wake of those who are forming EMOTIONAL responses.""

Maybe that's the trouble Goofus.

I asked him several times to respond to the points I made about the likelihood of Martin being scared for his life when being stalked by a stranger in street clothes, who (by Zimmerman's own demands to know what he is doing there and then without further discussion reaches for his pocket.

I asked whether he could deny that this would be grounds for Martin to claim that he attempted to prevent what he feared would be an attack with a weapon, acting in self defence.

Bruce showed who is the real racist here by ignoring the request. He hadn't the guts to discuss it, because he knows that if Trayvon were white and Zimmerman black, that would have been the side of the story highlighted by Racist Florida.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:13 PM

Don T

So, YOU are a racist as well, for being too cowardly to answer when I asked who threw the first punch. Or do the rules you place on me not ap[ply to one of the Master Race, like yourself and Bobert?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:15 PM

With an obvious racist chip on his shoulder, referencing the neighborhood watch guy as a "creepy ass cracker" to his fellow racist female friend who admitted under oath that that is how non-blacks are referred to normally in their circles, Trayvon had no reason not to attack, because it was the standard thug thing to do. See Chicago any day of the week.

With nearly 700 examples of this truism played out in Chicago in 2012 alone, no one can possibly dispute the recent surge in black racism increasing throughout Barack Obama's presidency. To attempt to claim otherwise is a laughable lie.

The jury got it right, and non-racist America rejoices that there is still common sense, honesty and decency aware of identifying justice in this country. America also believes that the entire prosecutorial team should be ashamed of themselves and disbarred for ignoring the obvious and kowtowing to the pure racism that forced the politically correct lie that only black lives killed by non-blacks matter, which is why there are no headlines, no protests, no prosecutions and no Barak Obama or Eric Holder meddling in the nonstop black-on-black slaughter in their gun-free zone of Chicago.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:15 PM

My goodness there is more than enough animosity on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:18 PM

Yeah , I know...it's always the same characters, too...I call it 'racial civil rights nostalgia'...they think if they keep it alive long enough they'll get eternal life!!..
Maybe even a second adolescence!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:18 PM

Knock it off. Bruce is NO racist. He is a conservative republican and he is allowed to be. Lots of people had valid questions about this case me included. I accept the verdict because I am an American and the court system made a determination not me. I don't have to agree with it but I accept it. None of us were there so everyone is wrong. Anyone on this fucking forum that doesn't agree with someone else is a racist .. NOT   for fuck sake

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:21 PM

""Explicitly racially motivated murders can and do occur. SiriusXM radio host Joe Madison called the killing of Trayvon Martin "nothing more than a modern day lynching." But racial hate killings are exceedingly rare in this country.""

NOW I see where you're coming from Bruce........As long as it's a rare occurrence, the killing of a black teenager doesn't matter.

What about the fact that George Zimmerman has established a precedent that you can kill anyone you find on the street as long as he's black, and even if the public force the police to act, you'll be acquitted. But be careful...White kids aren't on the menu.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:25 PM

" the fact that George Zimmerman has established a precedent that you can kill anyone you find on the street as long as he's black,"


NOT what the case determined, and an honest person would admit that.

If someone jumps on you, after conversation, and your life is in danger, you have the right to defend yourself WHETHER the assailant is black, white, red, or green.


But then, a "liberal " would have to know what the skin color was before he could decide if it was self-defense. And THAT IS RACISM.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:33 PM

""Judge Debra Nelson ruled that pictures and texts from Martin's cell phone were inadmissible, after prosecutors argued that it couldn't be proven Martin actually took the pictures and wrote the texts on his phone.""

And yet those "inadmissible" photos have been, and are still being used by the defence with the connivance of the prosecution, to blacken Trayvon Martin's character to make Zimmerman look less like a cold blooded racist killer.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:36 PM

The COURT determined that Zmmerman was not a "cold-blooded killer".


Or are you still pushing for the hemp rope and tall tree, like Bobert and Greggie boy?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:41 PM

""Don is obviously projecting his own feelings again.""

Not feelings Bruce.

Merely unblinkered observation of body language and attitude and that shit kicking half smile on Zimmerman.

And your wish to see the "white" man win, innocent or guilty, is blatantly documented, both in the blogs you chose to cut and paste, and in your refusal to etertain the possibility that Martin also might have believed he was in imminent danger of harm.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:44 PM

And your racism is demonstrated by your lack of concern for all those blacks killed by other blacks- THEY don't matter, it only is important to get a white convicted even when the evidence does not support the case.



But then, to a "liberal", blacks are a sure vote and don't need to be cared about. Let a few get killed, and the rest will still support the "liberals" who keep them killing each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:46 PM

""Dickie boy,
I stated that he recommended manslaughter charges- True or false?

TRUE He did, for whatever reason. FACT


You have abused me for a true statement- this makes you scum.""

No, you twat! He has pointed out that Serino only did tht under pressure.

And not ""for whatever reason"". His reasons have a significant bearing on whether he destroyed the case by accident, or corruptly, which is what he did!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: number 6
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:55 PM

olddude ... Well said, I agree with your statement ... and I'm not an American btw ... once the mainstream news media drops all their headlines about this case which is just fuel for all this animosity you'll see the activity on this thread slow down considerably.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:55 PM

Don T,

Did I state that Serino called for a manslaughter charge?

YES

Did he, for whatever reason, under whatever duress?

YES

Did Dickie attack me and call me a liar for this?

"
BRUCIE YOU ARE A FUCKING LIAR - SERINO WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO RECOMMEND THAT Z BE NOT PROSECUTED. GO AND FUCKING CHECK. CUNT."


Seems a little abusive, as well. He says that my statement THAT IS TRUE is a lie.


If that is the "liberal" standard, I guess you have to support it.