BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Sep 16 - 07:33 PM

So, now that the concept of a pardon is in the wind, what do you say, you scurvy knaves, arr? Or is it mateys?

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 14 - 12:24 AM

More leaks in Obama's 6 years than in the previous 220+? I don't think so.

Obama promised us the "most transparent administration in history," yet he's increased the obfuscation.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 May 14 - 09:05 AM

The Obama administration has pursued seven criminal leak investigations to date, more than every previous presidential administration combined,

Perhaps because there were more leaks in toto?

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 14 - 12:30 AM

National Security Reporting 'Criminalized' Under Obama

National security reporting is "effectively being criminalized" under President Barack Obama, New York Times Executive Editor Jill Abramson says, citing the administration's unprecedented crackdown on whistleblowers.

"This seems to be, if not a stated policy, a reality where journalism about sensitive national security issues,that I see as vitally in the public interest, is effectively being criminalized, and a real freeze is setting in to what had been up to this point a healthy discourse between sources and journalists," Abramson said during a panel discussion at Columbia University entitled "Journalism After Snowden," according to Politico.

The Obama administration has pursued seven criminal leak investigations to date, more than every previous presidential administration combined, Politico noted in its coverage of the Columbia event.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/abramson-criminalized-whistleblowers-secretive/2014/01/31/id/550226/

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 10:01 PM

Edward Snowden nominated for Nobel peace prize

Two Norwegian politicians say they have jointly nominated the former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden for the 2014 Nobel peace prize.

The Socialist Left party politicians Baard Vegar Solhjell, a former environment minister, and Snorre Valen said the public debate and policy changes in the wake of Snowden's whistleblowing had "contributed to a more stable and peaceful world order".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/29/edward-snowden-nominated-nobel-peace-prize

If Snowden shows up in Oslo to accept the prize, former peace prize winner Obama would be able to target him with a Hellfire missile.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 06:04 PM

In an interview Sunday with the German television network ARD, former National Security Agency (NSA) contractor Edward Snowden warned that US "government officials want to kill me."

"These people, and they are government officials, have said they would love to put a bullet in my head or poison me when I come out of the supermarket, and then watch as I die in the shower," Snowden said....

Snowden was referring to an article posted on the Buzzfeed web site based on interviews with US intelligence and military officials, who candidly discussed their desire to assassinate him. Among them was an Army intelligence officer who offered a startling proposal for murdering Snowden: "… we would end it very quickly. Just casually walking on the streets of Moscow… he is casually poked by a passerby. He thinks nothing of it at the time and starts to feel a little woozy and thinks it's a parasite from the local water. He goes home very innocently and next thing you know he dies in the shower."

Given that the Obama administration has already carried out extra-judicial murders of four US citizens with Hellfire missiles, such statements can hardly be dismissed as fantasies. On the contrary, they are entirely consistent with the political gangsterism being employed to prepare Snowden's liquidation.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/01/27/pers-j27.html

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 09:49 PM

Obama's NSA "reform" defends illegal spying

The Obama White House is preparing a National Security Agency "reform" package that is aimed at legitimizing and institutionalizing the NSA's illegal domestic spying operations, while putting in place stringent security measures to prevent disclosures of its crimes such as those made by former contractor Edward Snowden.

President Barack Obama is set to present the so-called "reforms" in a speech he will deliver Friday at the US Justice Department. The measures he has embraced are selected from among those recommended to his administration last month by a hand-picked advisory panel dominated by former intelligence officials.

Even before Obama could make the speech, new revelations provided by Snowden have uncovered yet another sinister operation by the NSA. The latest exposure involves the agency's secret planting of software in almost 100,000 computers, enabling it to spy on their users even when the computers are not connected to the Internet....

The entire process, billed by Obama as a "national conversation" on data collection and privacy, has only underscored that no branch of the US government—executive, legislative or judicial—and no section of the US ruling establishment has any serious commitment to democratic and constitutional rights. All have integrated themselves into the defense of a totalitarian intelligence apparatus dedicated to relentless spying on the people of the United States and the world.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/01/16/fisc-j16.html

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 18 Dec 13 - 12:01 AM

I pasted the first paragraph of the article thinking that anyone interested might read the second, and maybe more. But you obviously didn't. "But he stayed his ruling pending an appeal by the Obama administration, which argued in court in defense of the program."

You National Socialists are a piece of work. NSA spying violates the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. constitution. You don't have to be a law professor to know that. You should be ashamed to argue in favor of violating the constitution. If you ever took an oath to it, then what you're doing here makes you a traitor.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Dec 13 - 11:09 PM

There was no "ruling" in the matter referenced by wronger. The judge issued a judicial opinion that there was "reasonable cause to believe" that some provisions of the procedure might be unconsitutional when he remanded the case back to a lower court.

In actuality, all that happened is that the judge for an appeals court declined to hear the appeal of the lower court decision, but ordered the lower court to "think again" and explain their decision.

As the "opinion" was stated by the judge, the lower court may rehear the case and provide better rationale for their previous decision, or may come to a different decision, after which the judge may or may not consider a new appeal or a resubmission of the same one. It is only after the appeal has been accepted for trial/hearings that the higher court is permitted to make a "ruling."

Obvously neither wronger nor his leader-hatemongers have much understanding about the workings of US courts - but that's expected here.

John

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 17 Dec 13 - 10:07 PM

Federal judge holds NSA telephone surveillance unconstitutional

A federal judge in Washington, DC on Monday declared that the National Security Agency's collection of telephone "metadata" from virtually every call made to, from or within the United States violates the Fourth Amendment, the constitutional provision protecting the "right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures."

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/12/17/cour-d17.html

No shit the spying violates the Fourth Amendment.

What gets me is that we have a president who was supposedly a "constitutional law professor." And now he's the biggest defender of NSA spying. So, either he was a really BAD professor, or he's a traitor to the constitution.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 11:17 PM

Obama administration pledges to continue illegal spying programs>/b>

The Obama administration is responding to the latest series of exposures of the massive National Security Agency spying operations by insisting that all the programs will continue, while intensifying its campaign against NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden....

In the media and political establishment, the fact that these programs are being operated in flagrant violation of international law and the Fourth Amendment prohibition of unreasonable searches and seizures is treated as a non-issue. So is the fact that the latest revelations directly contradict previous statements from Obama and other administration officials that the NSA does not monitor the phone conversations and emails of US citizens.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/11/06/spyi-n06.html

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Oct 13 - 08:05 PM

Newsmax.com.

I get their newsletter each morning in my e-mail. I subscribed just so I could keep track of what these yo-yos are raving on about. And here I find Songwronger blithering on about an article in Newsmax.

Why am I not surprised?

(Like they say, "Out of the mouths of boobs!")

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Rat's nest of concealment and lies
From: Songwronger
Date: 28 Oct 13 - 07:27 PM

An interesting video clip. The old government whore Bob Woodward saying the NSA scandal was caused by a "secret government." He's right. One of the few truths I've heard come out of his mouth in the past few years.

Woodward says, "They need to review this secret world and its power in their government because you run into this rat's nest of concealment and lies time and time again, then and now." Bravo. His voice is quavery (always is because he's such a stressed-out liar), but maybe now he's nervous because he's speaking the truth. It will be interesting to see if he dies of an "unexpected heart attack" in a month or two. The Obama regime has a special hatred for journalists.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/woodward-nsa-secret-government/2013/10/28/id/533435

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 07:38 PM

Wow! Sounds like the NSA is on the job!

Ted Gioia is a jazz musician and music historian. He generally doesn't delve into things political, and it appears that some of the sources he used for the article that Songwronger posted are the same ones that Songwronger uses himself. Hardly a political authority, Gioia just gleaned the internet for what he felt would back up his article.

And he posted it on his own web site.

Yawn. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 06:50 PM

58 Things We've Learned About the NSA

NSA spent $652 million to implant spyware on tens of millions of computers.
BBC, October 22, 2013

NSA collected more than 70 million French phone records in a single month.
Washington Post, October 21, 2013

NSA hacked Mexican President Felipe Calderon's email account.
Der Spiegel, October 20, 2013

Documents reveal NSA's extensive involvement in killer drone program.
Washington Post, October 16, 2013

NSA collects contacts from an estimated 500,000 buddy lists on live chat services each day.
The Washington Post, October 14, 2013

And so on.....

http://www.tedgioia.com/nsa_facts.html

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 09:57 PM

Yes, a good article:

When the state acts without proper democratic authority, it acts as a rogue operation—as just another band of thugs with money and guns and a dangerous sense of self-righteousness. Whether the NSA's monitoring programmes are actually legal and effective may be more pressing questions than whether Mr Snowden deserves our esteem. But it became possible to address those questions openly only because Mr Snowden chose to speak up. If we wish to keep similarly pressing policy questions available for public examination, we must defend the honour of whistleblowers like Edward Snowden.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 09:48 PM

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/06/edward-snowden

Good article.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 09:36 PM

I don't care diddly-squat if the NSA has the contents of my e-mail address book OR my regular address book. There is nothing there they would be interested in. No political plots, no secret plans to plant bombs anywhere, no communications with terrorists, no illegal activities of any kind—nothing they would be interested in.

Hell, the tracking cookies that advertising agencies put on my computer, then bombard me with pop-up ads are the REAL pain in the butt! They intrude into my life far more than the NSA does. The NSA is not trying to sell me anything, nor do they slow down my computer.

They're trying to see to it that somebody doesn't try to blow my ass off!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 09:08 PM

NSA collects millions of e-mail address books globally

The National Security Agency is harvesting hundreds of millions of contact lists from personal e-mail and instant messaging accounts around the world, many of them belonging to Americans, according to senior intelligence officials and top-secret documents provided by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.

The collection program, which has not been disclosed before, intercepts e-mail address books and "buddy lists" from instant messaging services as they move across global data links. Online services often transmit those contacts when a user logs on, composes a message, or synchronizes a computer or mobile device with information stored on remote servers....

During a single day last year, the NSA's Special Source Operations branch collected 444,743 e-mail address books from Yahoo, 105,068 from Hotmail, 82,857 from Facebook, 33,697 from Gmail and 22,881 from unspecified other providers, according to an internal NSA PowerPoint presentation. Those figures, described as a typical daily intake in the document, correspond to a rate of more than 250 million a year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-collects-millions-of-e-mail-address-books-globally/2013/10/14/8e58b5be

These are address BOOKS they're talking about, lists of all your email contacts. That's a lot of addresses.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 08:21 PM

Any idiot that puts personal information on FarceBook and other "social networking" sites for all to see and to freely access (none of which sites promise any sort of security whatsoever and in fact regularly gather information from what said idiots post) has no business complaining about government accessing it.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 07:28 PM

N.S.A. Gathers Data on Social Connections of U.S. Citizens

WASHINGTON — Since 2010, the National Security Agency has been exploiting its huge collections of data to create sophisticated graphs of some Americans' social connections that can identify their associates, their locations at certain times, their traveling companions and other personal information, according to newly disclosed documents and interviews with officials....

...The agency can augment the communications data with material from public, commercial and other sources, including bank codes, insurance information, Facebook profiles, passenger manifests, voter registration rolls and GPS location information, as well as property records and unspecified tax data, according to the documents. They do not indicate any restrictions on the use of such "enrichment" data, and several former senior Obama administration officials said the agency drew on it for both Americans and foreigners....

...A top-secret document titled "Better Person Centric Analysis" describes how the agency looks for 94 "entity types," including phone numbers, e-mail addresses and IP addresses. In addition, the N.S.A. correlates 164 "relationship types" to build social networks and what the agency calls "community of interest" profiles, using queries like "travelsWith, hasFather, sentForumMessage, employs."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/nsa-examines-social-networks-of-us-citizens.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Oh yeah, they're just collecting "metadata" on "foreigners" and "terrorists."

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 25 Sep 13 - 10:10 AM

Not quite Greg, the US *has* got places like North Korea to compete with. However it's the stinking hypocrisy of loudly proclaiming itself to be the shiniest and purest democracy and defender of liberty truth and justice on the planet, that makes the US government's crimes against liberty, truth and justice rankle so profoundly. And so many people actually believe the hype too. It's pure 1984 without a doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Sep 13 - 09:35 AM

Only in the U.S. would those who expose war crimes and government malfeasance be prosecuted and incarcerated while absolutely nothing is done about the perpetrators.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Sep 13 - 12:55 AM

Here's looking at you, kid!
            --Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 24 Sep 13 - 11:06 PM

Booting Up: New NSA Data Farm Takes Root In Utah

...running the complex requires 65 megawatts of electricity, enough to power about 65,000 homes. The electronics generate so much heat that they would fry without 1.5 million gallons of cooling water a day....

...It also gives the federal government's intelligence agencies easier access to the email, text message, cellphone and landline metadata the NSA collects, "for foreign intelligence purpose[s]," as Vine insists.

"They are looking for particular words, particular names, particular phrases or numbers ... information that's on their target list," says James Bamford, author of three books about the NSA and a 2012 Wired magazine article focused on the new data center.

But Anderson asserts that there "is no intent here to become 'Big Brother.' ... There's no intent to watch American citizens,"

http://ktep.org/post/booting-new-nsa-data-farm-takes-root-utah


Of course there's no intent to watch American citizens. You'd have to be crazy to believe that. A real nutcase. But then there's this:

FBI calls half of populace with 9/11 doubts potential terrorists

A Department of Justice memo instructs local police, under a program named "communities against terrorism," to consider anyone who harbors "conspiracy theories" about 9/11 to be a potential terrorist.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/358624

We have a president who's now openly arming the people accused of carrying out 9/11, and your local law is instructed to treat you as a terrorist if you question the events of 9/11.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 06:33 PM

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 05:32 AM

Your link doesn't work for me SW - too long for clicky - so here it is again:

Obama administration secretly reversed NSA restrictions in 2011

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 06:03 PM

Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

The Obama administration secretly won permission from a surveillance court in 2011 to reverse restrictions on the National Security Agency's use of intercepted phone calls and e-mails, permitting the agency to search deliberately for Americans' communications in its massive databases, according to interviews with government officials and recently declassified material....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-administration-had-restrictions-on-nsa-reversed-in-2011/2013/09/07/c

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 10:18 AM

The NSA has made the U.S. less secure by it's draconian insistence upon "loyalty".
The more it investigates, the less secure is our democracy.

Snowden's persecution is making whistle-blowers more heroic by encouraging
activism like never before. If this is what they want, then they may as well continue.

Fear is never a good restraint because there are so many imbued with their idealism
that they will take risks to implement their beliefs. It's the American way. This is how
we deal with civil rights, labor, equality, and the excesses of political power.

War is not the answer. Fear is not the answer. The two walk hand in hand.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 10:30 PM

NSA Has Been Spying On Members Of Congress For A Long Time

...There was also a report by a former intelligence analyst and whistleblower Russell Tice that the NSA wiretapped Barack Obama in 2004. Is there some massive archive of politicians' dirty secrets somewhere at the NSA? Surely the NSA at least has their metadata – they have everyone's. It is hard to imagine when push comes to shove and its budget time that the NSA doesn't take a peek at who they are doing business with in Congress. Intelligence is all about having as much information as possible, that's the training and that's the game. Old habits probably die hard....

...the NSA has been spying on members of Congress and allowing the information to be used for leverage since at least the Reagan Administration.

"We listened to all the calls in and out of Washington," says one former NSA linguist, recalling a class at the Warrenton Training Center, a CIA communications school on a Virginia hilltop. "We'd listen to senators, representatives, government agencies, housewives talking to their lovers."

http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/08/28/nsa-has-been-spying-on-members-of-congress-for-a-long-time/

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 30 Aug 13 - 06:14 PM

All of you who think that you have nothing to fear from the spying because you're not doing anything wrong, check out #3. If you want to make the world a better place, you're a potential terrorist. Under Bush/Obama law you can be disappeared, renditioned, tortured and never see the light of day or a courtroom again.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 30 Aug 13 - 06:08 PM

That was me, without a cookie. Here's the link: Obama at the Lincoln Memorial


And in case any of you are wondering who the "terrorists" are that the NSA is spying on, here's a list of 72 Types Of Americans That Are Considered "Potential Terrorists" In Official Government Documents. Each of these 72 has a link to the document making the terrorist claim:

1. Those that talk about "individual liberties"
2. Those that advocate for states' rights
3. Those that want "to make the world a better place"
4. "The colonists who sought to free themselves from British rule"
5. Those that are interested in "defeating the Communists"
6. Those that believe "that the interests of one's own nation are separate from the interests of other nations or the common interest of all nations"
7. Anyone that holds a "political ideology that considers the state to be unnecessary, harmful,or undesirable"
8. Anyone that possesses an "intolerance toward other religions"
9. Those that "take action to fight against the exploitation of the environment and/or animals"
10. "Anti-Gay"
11. "Anti-Immigrant"
12. "Anti-Muslim"
13. "The Patriot Movement"
14. "Opposition to equal rights for gays and lesbians"
15. Members of the Family Research Council
16. Members of the American Family Association
17. Those that believe that Mexico, Canada and the United States "are secretly planning to merge into a European Union-like entity that will be known as the 'North American Union'"
18. Members of the American Border Patrol/American Patrol
19. Members of the Federation for American Immigration Reform
20. Members of the Tennessee Freedom Coalition
21. Members of the Christian Action Network
22. Anyone that is "opposed to the New World Order"
23. Anyone that is engaged in "conspiracy theorizing"
24. Anyone that is opposed to Agenda 21
25. Anyone that is concerned about FEMA camps
26. Anyone that "fears impending gun control or weapons confiscations"
27. The militia movement
28. The sovereign citizen movement
29. Those that "don't think they should have to pay taxes"
30. Anyone that "complains about bias"
31. Anyone that "believes in government conspiracies to the point of paranoia"
32. Anyone that "is frustrated with mainstream ideologies"
33. Anyone that "visits extremist websites/blogs"
34. Anyone that "establishes website/blog to display extremist views"
35. Anyone that "attends rallies for extremist causes"
36. Anyone that "exhibits extreme religious intolerance"
37. Anyone that "is personally connected with a grievance"
38. Anyone that "suddenly acquires weapons"
39. Anyone that "organizes protests inspired by extremist ideology"
40. "Militia or unorganized militia"
41. "General right-wing extremist"
42. Citizens that have "bumper stickers" that are patriotic or anti-U.N.
43. Those that refer to an "Army of God"
44. Those that are "fiercely nationalistic (as opposed to universal and international in orientation)"
45. Those that are "anti-global"
46. Those that are "suspicious of centralized federal authority"
47. Those that are "reverent of individual liberty"
48. Those that "believe in conspiracy theories"
49. Those that have "a belief that one's personal and/or national 'way of life' is under attack"
50. Those that possess "a belief in the need to be prepared for an attack either by participating in paramilitary preparations and training or survivalism"
51. Those that would "impose strict religious tenets or laws on society (fundamentalists)"
52. Those that would "insert religion into the political sphere"
53. Anyone that would "seek to politicize religion"
54. Those that have "supported political movements for autonomy"
55. Anyone that is "anti-abortion"
56. Anyone that is "anti-Catholic"
57. Anyone that is "anti-nuclear"
58. "Rightwing extremists"
59. "Returning veterans"
60. Those concerned about "illegal immigration"
61. Those that "believe in the right to bear arms"
62. Anyone that is engaged in "ammunition stockpiling"
63. Anyone that exhibits "fear of Communist regimes"
64. "Anti-abortion activists"
65. Those that are against illegal immigration
66. Those that talk about "the New World Order" in a "derogatory" manner
67. Those that have a negative view of the United Nations
68. Those that are opposed "to the collection of federal income taxes"
69. Those that supported former presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin and Bob Barr
70. Those that display the Gadsden Flag ("Don't Tread On Me")
71. Those that believe in "end times" prophecies
72. Evangelical Christians

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 13 - 06:25 PM

Obama at the Lincoln Memorial

August 29, 2013

...He praised the veterans of the civil rights movement for "willingly [going] to jail to protest unjust laws, their cells swelling with the sound of freedom songs."

But the Obama administration is seeking the extradition and prosecution of Edward Snowden for exposing the unconstitutional surveillance being carried out by the National Security Agency (NSA), persecuting Julian Assange for publishing revelations of US war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan, and condemning Private Bradley Manning to spend the next 35 years of his life in prison in retribution for his fidelity to the principles proclaimed at the Nuremburg Tribunal after World War II—that soldiers have a duty to defy illegal orders and oppose war crimes committed by their superiors.

The very principle of civil disobedience that was central to the civil rights movement and praised by Obama on Wednesday is repudiated in practice by his administration, which insists, in the manner of all authoritarian regimes, that any violation of the law for whatever reason is tantamount to treason.

King, were he alive and holding the same positions he did 45 years ago, would doubtless be targeted by Obama alongside Snowden and Manning. In fact, King was hounded by the FBI....

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 25 Aug 13 - 12:03 PM

"I maintain that if the NSA was effective, the Boston bombing would have been prevented. They haven't prevented anything. ... This is directed at American citizens and will make us all vulnerable to any agenda they fancy."

Yep and yep.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 24 Aug 13 - 10:58 PM

I maintain that if the NSA was effective, the Boston bombing would have been prevented. They haven't prevented anything. There is no balance as you say GUEST. This is directed at American citizens and will make us all vulnerable to any agenda they fancy. Very very scary. As of now, we really don't have any rights.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Aug 13 - 10:12 AM

Ooops - sorry northern friend, no prob.- Didn't know which "Guest" I was dealing with so I plead guilty of "assuming facts not in evidence".

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 24 Aug 13 - 07:53 AM

The American "left" and Edward Snowden

...Increasingly, journalists and publications that publish such exposures are coming under state attack, as seen in the US-UK attacks on the Guardian newspaper and the detention and interrogation of David Miranda, the partner of journalist Glenn Greenwald.

In their response to the Snowden revelations, the various representatives of the milieu of "left" liberals and pseudo-left organizations have displayed a staggering level of indifference, complacency, and outright hostility to Snowden.

A typical example was given on MSNBC last month by Melissa Harris-Perry, a Tulane University professor of political science, contributor to the Nation magazine and a supposedly "left" supporter of the Democratic Party and the Obama administration....

Echoing Obama, Harris-Perry accepted the legitimacy of the claim that the systematic violations of the Constitution were motivated by concern for the security of the American people, and called for a "debate" on the need to "balance" democratic rights with national security. Snowden, she declared, was impeding such a "debate" by focusing attention on his own plight—as though he was to blame for the international dragnet against him carried out by the Obama administration....

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/08/24/left-a24.html

Fuck her and fuck Obama. There's no "debate" on balancing spying with the constitution. It's despicable the way Obama has seized on this situation and tried to convince us he needs to listen to our phone calls.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 13 - 10:31 PM

Sorry, Greg, it was a bad day. I was gonna bite someone's ass and yours just happened to be there. My apology.

Your Mark Twain friend from the north.

PS All 12 are still singing real good.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Aug 13 - 03:27 PM

?

Got somethin' against accuracy & truth, Guest? & I'm hardly "in charge".

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 13 - 12:24 PM

Greg, next time you post the author's name and quote. Who fucking died and left you in charge of the store?

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Aug 13 - 10:45 AM

Still wrong, Guest. If you're going to quote the man, at least get it right. Abbey's quotation should read:


A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.

Also good to remember that Abbey was an anarchist.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,Guessed
Date: 23 Aug 13 - 10:40 AM

thanks Guest. what an interesting man.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 13 - 11:16 PM

'It is the duty of a patriot to protect his country from its government'

Edward Abbey

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 13 - 04:21 PM

It's not altogether certain that everyone deemed an "enemy combatant" is an "enemy combatant" because guess what? ...the government doesn't have to produce evidence, level criminal charges, or hold a trial. Pretty convenient, eh? Where's the accountability? Just put someone on a list for any reason at all (he was standing at the urinal next to the guy we "knew" was an "enemy combatant," so he must've been one too) and then disappear them, either by throwing them in Gitmo for the rest of their lives or drone-striking them. Wonder what "evidence" the government had against al-Awlaki's 16 year old son, a US citizen, other than his dad was deemed a "bad guy?" Guess just being in the wrong place at the wrong time, being born to the wrong father, or just hanging out in Yemen automatically makes one an "enemy combatant."

These are the kinds of outrageous crimes Manning and Snowden are trying to expose. More power to them, and those of their ilk.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 13 - 03:01 PM

If you are talking on the phone with Al-Qaeda about getting a bomb to blow up your fellow citizens you are an "enemy combatant"... The only way that that NSA is going to know that is because computers link your phone number with known Al-Qaeda, then goes to the FISA court to get a warrant to listen into to your phone calls with Al-Qaeda...

Here's an idea... If you don't want to be deemed an "enemy combatant" then don't become one???

Duhhhhhh???

BTW, not one US citizen living here in the US and not making any calls to Al-Qaeda has been arrested as an enemy combatant... None...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 13 - 02:31 PM

When credit card companies, Facebook, Internet providers, Yahoo, Google, and a host of other non-governmental entities collecting data acquire the ability to declare someone an "enemy combatant" without giving reason because it's "classified," and throw him or her in Gitmo without charges and hold him or her indefinitely without trial or access to a lawyer, then there will definitely be outrage. Imagine if Visa or Mastercard drone striked someone because he or she was delinquent on a credit card payment (economic terrorism). Even Internet providers don't have the power to arrest someone if a person engages in, for example, online child pornography. All they can do is turn over the evidence to the appropriate authorities who then come and make an arrest. And at least the suspect will be charged with a crime, provided a lawyer and given a trial. If convicted, he or she will be given a sentence and, in this instance, the possibility of getting out someday to resume life as a free citizen. Not so with the data collected by the NSA who fingers someone because they don't like the cut of his jib or she once wrote "Dick Cheney's mother wears Army boots" and sent it in an email to her friend.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 13 - 11:15 AM

The mean ol' gov'mint don't bother me at all... Sure, one party has spent 30 years and hundreds of million$ of PR $$$ pushing this idea that the government is some evil monster out to get you...

Congress, however, bugs me because of way too many Koch brothers & co puppets trying to take down our economy...

But I'm sticking to the opinion that until I hear outrage from citizens about what the corporations are collecting - which effects 100% of Americans rather than less than 1% that the government is eyeing - that I'm not going to jump on the anti-government bandwagon...

BTW, I think that people really have no clue what good things the government does in everyone's lives every day...

Maybe a government shut down would be a good idea so people would realize those things...

Let me throw out an example that as a social worker I knew all to well about... The mean ol' gov-mint is paying for the nursing care of millions of indigent seniors... I know... Horros!!! Yup, people, Medicaid pays for those folks care...

Hey, here's an idea... How about the anti-government people standing up and volunteering to provide for these people... This includes bathing them, changing their diapers, feeding them, seeing that they get their meds, etc...

I mean, all these anti-government people want to jump all over saftey net programs and say that what we need is for the community to take care of their own... Fine... Quit griping and just do it... And with the middle class be squeezed with no pay raises for 30 years how are they supposed to save enough $$$ to take care of the $4000 a month for nursing home care???

Geeze Loise...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 22 Aug 13 - 10:54 AM

Listening to a program on NPR about the NSA right now.

You know, I don't trust the government at all and I think that anyone who does is naive.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Aug 13 - 10:39 AM

Quote is definately bogus, Don, & easily looked up.

As for the patriot/traitor question, depends - as it always has - which side of the fence you're on.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 13 - 10:38 AM

Content data means content, as in what was in the emails and what the telephone conversations were about.