Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 08:43 PM

For my money, it's Song to a Seagull, Clouds, and Court & Spark (although there's nothing wrong with Ladies of the Canyon or Blue).

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 06:50 AM

Which three would you designate, HiLo? Surely Blue and Court & Spark, though I think she ought to have been more specific about crediting Lambert Hendricks & Ross on "Twisted". It wasn't at all clear in the liner notes, and it's easy to think it's a Joni original if you've never come across that song before. (She later commented somewhere that 'Annie's really hard on me' - wonder why?!) I do think she made a great job of it, though. I love Raised On Robbery too.

There are various possibilities for the third nomination as "all-time classic" - maybe Ladies Of The Canyon or Hejira? But my personal fave is her first LP (Song To A Seagull) - anybody else love this one as much as I do? It tends to get rather dissed these days as being too "folky" or "dated" or whatever, but I disagree. I was mesmerised from the first note - which I heard when barely conscious.

I was sleeping in late one morning and my roommate came into the room with our giant transistor radio, plunked it down right next to my ear, turned the volume up, and said, 'This is the chick I've been telling you about.' I drifted awake to the sound of Joni singing Cactus Tree. That night at my boyfriend's apartment, in a suitably candle-lit room, he put something on the stereo and said 'listen to this'. It was Joni in I Had A King. Magic. I went to the record shop next day to buy the album and the guy behind the counter said they'd sold out. He remarked that everybody had been in, asking for it. It certainly caught on like wildfire at my college.

So that LP has a special place in my heart - but a lot of people seem to regard Ladies Of The Canyon as her first, which means they probably haven't even heard of it. I'd be interested to know what albums other fans would choose as her best, and how well they like (or don't) that first one. The whole concept - a collection of songs in a specific order - is being lost now.

When I was a kid I wanted to be Annette. In my coffee-house-guitar-and-long-hair college days I wanted to be Joni.

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 10:53 AM

I really enjoyed the interview. I thought the interviewer was great. I found what she had to say about the sixties generation very thought provoking.
I have great respect for her talent, she is one of the best singer songwriters ever...and has made at least three albums that should be considered all time classics.

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 10:45 AM

"about Joni"   Precisely.    And my original comments were not only about her but praising her to the skies.

There is no reason for anybody to argue about interpretation of one line, which can be seen several different ways.

There are facts and there are opinions--and it should be possible to distinguish between the two.



Now, gnu, do you yourself have anything else to say about Joni? I've been curious for instance as to what Canadians think about her moving to California.    Is that just taken in stride as necessary for a big career or are there other sentiments?

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 09:45 PM

FFS... would you all just lighten up and discuss the thread? It's about Joni... not about you... not about anyone else. Take all that shit and start a new thread.

As for this thread... I am gnightgnu. Mangle the concept at will if that is what you feel driven to do. No wonder I prefer the BS section on too many occasions.

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 09:24 AM

"at the remark"

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 09:22 AM

Sorry to hear you are still licking your wounds, LH. Don't worry, they will heal with time.


Of course, may I make the modest suggestion that there are in fact several ways of looking at what the remark Joni made?   I like to read between the lines.   Others may not. Different strokes.

I am not insisting that my interpretation of what she said is correct;   just that it is a possibility. This seems reasonable.

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 01:08 AM

He has made the desperately grave mistake of crossing your path, Ron! Kind of like attracting the notice of a frustrated old moray eel whilst innocently scuba diving. He'll surely know better in future... ;-)

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 11:56 PM

Yes, meself, it is indeed interesting that rather than say anything directly on a wonderful interview given by a delightful and spectacularly talented woman, you feel it incumbent on yourself to quibble about a throwaway line, which can be interpreted various ways. Are you perhaps not getting enough sleep?

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 11:50 PM

PHJim--

Thanks so much for that link.    What an enchanting concert that was--I can't do blue clickies but about 1/2 hour of the concert, including that song, which has been one of my favorites forever, is available on YouTube.   And it's transporting--she does several of the wonderful old songs.

And proves anew that less is more. If you have talent--and she has had talent to burn forever-- (it's amazing to think she wrote all those delightful, thought-provoking and evocative songs)--all you need is one instrument, be it a piano, dulcimer, guitar, and you can make unearthly music.    And what a voice; she didn't even need an instrument---she could probably have done a completely a cappella concert at that point (if her voice could hold out) and it would have been a lifetime musical high point for all who attended.

The concert also makes it pretty clear why a lot of feminists couldn't stand her.   She is not only wonderfully talented and gorgeous, but projects vulnerability.   Not exactly the message feminists wanted to convey.   They would have preferred, say, a Bella Abzug. Gloria Steinem was probably the exception that proves the rule.

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 11:18 PM

You're right; I don't find it amazingly pointless to quibble over a complete misinterpretation of what some public figure for whom I have some respect has said in an interview. I find it interesting that you would find that interesting.

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 10:19 PM

"not directing the message to her personally".   Duh.

However I got the distinct impression that one of the main reasons she thinks very little of the sonnets is that they remind her of an attitude directed at her by men she has encountered (NB, now, not in the 16th century --she is not a bit player in Dr. Who)--and that it is a tired line. She likes a lot of Shakespeare, just not the sonnets.

Scholars bicker.

But it seems amazingly pointless to quibble over this detail of interpretation--interesting that you chose to do so.

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 09:33 PM

I was just picking up from what I thought were some good points in the previous post... Not allowed?? Sorry -

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: gnu
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 06:42 PM

Whooooa! I never said anything about Bob or intended any thread drift to discuss his work... I was making a joke. I thought it was damn good one, too. Then, again I make many attempts, any I can, and some fail. This one obviously crashed and burned.

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 11:47 AM

As we all know, Bob did that with folks songs too - Scarboro Fair, Leaving Of Liverpool et al. In fact I heard his "farewell" song - can't remember the name of it - on a Judy Collins album long before I ever encountered Liverpool, which is/was more popular in the UK than the States.

Learning about the former didn't in any way decrease my love for the latter. I think in his artistry he managed to make the originals equal more than the sum of their parts.

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 11:35 AM

I'm not bothered by her comments about Dylan. There's a good deal of truth in them. The album she refers to him being a plagiarist on is "Love and Theft" (an ironic title?), because he seems to have lifted some of the lyrics in it from a modern Japanese novel:

"Love and Theft" generated controversy when some similarities between the album's lyrics to Japanese writer Junichi Saga's book Confessions of a Yakuza were pointed out.[20][21] Translated to English by John Bester, the book was a biography of one of the last traditional Yakuza bosses in Japan. In the article published in the Journal, a line from "Floater" ("I'm not quite as cool or forgiving as I sound") was traced to a line in the book, which said "I'm not as cool or forgiving as I might have sounded." Another line from "Floater" is "My old man, he's like some feudal lord." On the first lines of the book is the line "My old man would sit there like a feudal lord." However, when informed of this, author Saga's reaction was to feel honored and not abused at Dylan's use of lines from his work.[22]

Why would Bob do that, anyway? Maybe he just liked the novel a lot. Maybe he had writers block at the time? Who knows... Anyway, I really like most Dylan albums, but I couldn't relate to most of the material on "Love and Theft". If he did plagiarize it, I'd have to say he shouldn't have bothered! ;-)

He's definitely more derivative than Joni. She didn't imitate anyone. He started out imitating Woody Guthrie, Jack Elliot, and various others whose musical chops he absorbed....but why shouldn't he have? That's what 99% of us do, we start out imitating our musical heroes, and then we gradually find our own voice.

Joni had her own voice right from the start...as did Buffy Sainte-Marie, another true original.

So, I think Joni's criticisms of Bob Dylan have a good deal of validity...but I still love his songs anyway. They work for me. He has built upon a very rich tradition, and has honored it in so doing.

Forget about getting Joni to stop chain-smoking. It ain't gonna happen. Heck, she's 70! If she hasn't stopped by now, she's not going to.

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 11:13 AM

'... men in general relating to her:    "You're so beautiful you should reproduce--and I'm the one to do it."'

Actually, she was talking about Shakespeare cranking out sonnets for pay, and many of the sonnets, she's saying, have that message. She was not suggesting that Shakespeare was directing this message to her personally.

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: gnu
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 10:18 AM

Bonnie... re GG... one of the best interviwers I have ever seen. And Strombolopolis is right up there with him.

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: PHJim
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 02:48 PM

I've been a big fan since I first saw her in '64 at Maple Leaf Stadium in Toronto (then Joni Anderson). I continued to enjoy her through all of her incarnations, but I would have liked to see a little more humility. "False humility" is one thing, but she seemed sure that she had NO peers (well, maybe Stravinsky).
Gnu, this is how I like to remember her. She was pretty sexy then too, though her ethno-musicology is a bit off.

Joni with dulcimer

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 11:43 AM

"irritability"

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 11:42 AM

What a wonderful interview.   He pressed her on several issues--she even said she didn't like interviews--but never enough to alienate her.   We have an amazingly well-rounded picture of her in just an hour.

And what a fascinating--and superarticulate, well-read, (and talented, as we knew) woman.   Quoting Nietzche on poetry approvingly.    And she's right--her quote fits cerrtain "poets" to a T (Mr. Zimmerman, for instance):    "he muddies his water that he might appear deep".    And it doesn't seem beyond belief that she had him in mind.

On the Vietnam war:    the protestors blamed the soldiers.    Again this is in large part true.
And it infuriated me at the time--and now.

On feminists--nasty and hostile to her.   I'll bet they were--her music was far too intensely personal for them, especially the early records.   The more fools they.

Incisive sketches of so many people and issues--including men in general relating to her:    "You're so beautiful you should reproduce--and I'm the one to do it."


And a great sense of humor on top of it: on herself:    "tremendous joie de vivre, alternating with irritabiity."


And on and on.   This just scratches the surface of the interview.

Kudos to the interviewer--and to her for being willing to reveal so much (in a format she does not like).

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 11:37 AM

Thanks Bob, I didn't know that. Cool pic. I think David Crosby took it, not sure tho. Next time you see B. ask him about Joni's legs, it's really funny.

Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 06:02 AM

Fave bits (paraphrased from memory):

GG: Do you like being venerated?
JM: Depends on who's doing the venerating.

JM: I'd rather have arrogance than fake humility

And her fabulous take-off on Dylan's voice.

But a couple of cavils: Many of us were (and are) concerned about environmentalism and the infestation of "pink hotels". She wrote one of the great anthems of that issue, but she really didn't introduce it. And a lot of us managed to hate the war in Nam while still having compassion for the soldiers who were forced to go fight it, and what it did to them. And not everyone who believes in equality for women is a man-demoniser or any of those other clichés she tossed around. That whole judgment is too polarised, and doesn't take account of all us other non-Amazons who have plenty of men friends, and sympathy for the harness men have to wear, but aren't prepared to be victimised because of gender. We really need a new name for it because the term "Feminism" calls up such horrible images. I don't like the extreme exponents of it either, but they always managed to yell the loudest. And give the rest of us a bad name.

What is the illness she speaks of? Does she mean that (not sure what to call it) condition/syndrome where you either have or believe you have fibres growing out of you? Name starts with M, no time/inclination to go a-Googling right now. Is that what destroyed her voice? It could always just be the smokes and natural aging.

She still sounds in fine form, tho. May she continue to be so for many years yet. Yes, I could always find myself in her songs.

A great listen - thanks Gnu.

Subject: RE: BS: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 04:46 PM

A great interview but somehow I found the chain smoking a turn off. Joni, I smoked far too much in my early years but threw the cancer sticks away 35 years ago. We want you around for many years so I hope you do the same!

Subject: RE: BS: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 04:39 PM

Hey Ron, did you know that BM is on the back cover of Joni's first album? He's the guy in the background who's either holding up the wall or is being held up by it - hard to tell.

Check it out HERE

Subject: RE: BS: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: gnu
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 03:53 PM

Hmmmm... I thought a mod might have moved this above the line by now.

YO! MODS... I messed up yet again. Please move this thread above the line.

LH... her comments about Dylan... I figgered you might go Doug Foster on her (That Canadian Guy).

Subject: RE: BS: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 10:49 AM

gnu - Huh? I don't get that joke, man. Please explain. ;-)

Anyway, nobody writes letters anymore. The Internet has made us too impatient and lazy to go to the trouble. The last letter I ever got...or sent...must've been at least 10 years ago. It's all "instant" communication now.

Yeah, I really liked her blunt honesty, and her comments about the most selfish generation of all time (or was it "self-indulgent"?). Anyway, right on the mark. Boy, was it ever a silly time in a lot of respects all the drug and "free love" nonsense, but it produced some wonderful music.

She said that for most people (but not for her) ending the war in Vietnam was the big cause...yeah...it certainly was for me. And it still would be, even in retrospect. Hers was environmentalism. Well, I can't argue against that.

I loved what she had to say about the masculinism in the "feminist" movement. Dead right. To even call it "feminimism" is a bizarre misuse of language.

Subject: RE: BS: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 10:48 AM

Another great interview by a GREAT interviewer. Let's hear it for national treasure Gian Ghomeshi. I thought that Peter's size twelves would never be filled again, but by god Gian can do 'er.

Subject: RE: BS: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 08:54 AM

a great artist, in the best sense of that word.

BM has a funny story about Joni's legs

Subject: RE: BS: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: gnu
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 07:23 AM

Thanks for the links. The interview showed me a person and an artist I did not know existed, both thoroughly "professional" and precise. Her honesty was biting... I am surprised LH hasn't written a god damned letter yet (Canuck joke). >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 06:59 AM

The entire interview along with video of it can be seen HERE.

Her expressiveness adds another dimension to her words.

Subject: RE: BS: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: gnu
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 06:21 AM

DOH! JtS has pointed out sommat obvious... "force of BS" on my part? It. of course, should be above the line.

My apologies.

Subject: RE: BS: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 01:01 AM

Just listened to it. That was a great interview. I have a far better sense of her now than I did before. She makes plenty of sense, although there's something basic in her philosophy that's quite different from mine...regarding being irrevocably alone in this life. I think that's true in the human sense. I don't think it is true in the spiritual sense. But she might be right. I hope she isn't. Whether she is or not, though...it'll still be okay either way.

Subject: RE: BS: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: number 6
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 11:03 PM

Yes it was an interview Jack .... I listened to it also ... it's worth listening to

here's the link .. Joni Mitchell: Portrait of an artist

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 10:56 PM

How is this BS Gnu? Are you kidding about there being an Interview? ;-)

Subject: BS: Joni Mitchell interview CBC 2013.06.11
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 10:12 PM

Just over. Wow! I was riveted for the whole interview. I closed my eyes and sat still for the whole thing. Revelations... enlightenment... shocks... that girl don't hold back! The real deal. 70 years old and, forgive me for I am a man, much more sexy than she was at any day younger. (No shit, G.)

I have some things I gotta do so I'll just post this link for now... gotta run...

http://www.cbc.ca/q/blog/2013/06/11/joni-mitchell-portrait-of-an-artist/

WOW!