BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal

Subject: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: selby
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 06:39 AM

It seems living in the UK is no longer equal. The Museum group which looks after ALL national museums is in potentially financial difficulty the first thing the chairman of the group suggests one of 3 museums in the north will have to close, not one of the museums in the group, why not close the science museum in London and put all our efforts into Manchester. As far as the government is concerned us up north are worthy of nothing the HS2 designed to get people into London when the money would be better invested getting real jobs for real people in the north.
How is it that the Welsh and Scottish people can have devolved Government's and yet have their MPs vote on issues that their parliament's have decided to go the opposite way to the UK government. Is it not time that we the English had a vote to break away from Scotland and Wales and have English devolution or one step further the North break away from London. For the people down South for us in the North it is grim and no longer an equal country.
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 07:14 AM

And there was I thinking that HS2 was for getting people up to Manchester quicker rather than for draining trade down to London!

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: selby
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 08:39 AM

Sorry Manitas as I see it is to get people into London as a commuter route, it is not about work up here
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 08:55 AM

""Sorry Manitas as I see it is to get people into London as a commuter route, it is not about work up here
Keith ""

As far as I know they will be running trains in both diretions. If companies pick up on the fact that almost everything is cheaper up North, they'll go where the work force is.

If not, Mancunians will be able to commute to London and compete for the few jobs available down there.

Do you guys still believe that crap about the affluent south?

You should try it sometime, and find out what it costs for everything from basic foodstuffs to property.

There are people in London who have to pay council tax higher than a northern householder's mortgage payments.

Another man's grass may look greener, but you have to take into account what he pays for seed, fertiliser and even water.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 01:24 PM

"How is it that the Welsh and Scottish people can have devolved Government's and yet have their MPs vote on issues that their parliament's have decided to go the opposite way to the UK government"

The English of course should have a devolved parliament if they want it. The Scots and Welsh are the wrong people to have a moan at about inequality within England though. It's not productive. The truth of the matter is taking away Scottish and Welsh members from the equation would leave the present govt with a larger majority not a smaller one - and in the previous Labour govt's that said party had a majority within England itself too. There is a potential democratic deficit at the moment but no actual sustained deficit. In fact since the devolution settlement it is still the Scots who have lost out more often democratically. I think there was at most under Labour no more than a couple of times when non-English votes made any difference. On the other hand the Labour Party put about 60 devolved measures through Westminster instead of Holyrood by the use of the so called Sewel Motions. saying that I agree that a fully Federal solution would be much better than the current half baked one but that too would largely need English support to come about.

If there is an imbalance within the English regions then it is for the English themselves to sort out. There certainly didn't seem to be much support for Regional Assemblies when that was mooted by Labour. An English parliament would make sense but what is stopping that being just as London biased as many view the current parliament to be. Some might argue that the Scots, Welsh and Irish members help make the current parliament less centralised than it would perhaps be without them!

Funny though that the modern state for the bulk of its existence has had devolution. Stormont was only ever suspended. No-one moaned about a West-Belfast Question. Even in this thread it was only the Scots and Welsh who were picked out.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 02:16 PM

Re the northern museums, I presume these are the National Railway Museum, its outstation at Shildon, and the National Media Museum. I think this is mostly kite flying, but maybe the Bradford museum is vulnerable. The NRM is already begging for donations at the entrance.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 03:30 PM

All free museums try to get people to make donations, and always have.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 03:52 PM

Museum (noun) Place that recreates for fun the industrial reality we call our heritage.



You know, this pinot seems to be depressing me rather than making me put a traffic cone on my head. ....

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 03:57 PM

Forgot the Museum of Science & Industry (Liverpool Road) in Manchester. So there are actually four major museums at some level of risk.

How long before an apparatchik floats closure of the Bradford museum and transfer of some of the exhibits to the BFI on the South Bank? Sorry, just stirring.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: selby
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 10:09 AM

To lift a direct quote from the Archbishop of York Dr John Sentamu commenting on Museum closure threats

"A country which forgets its heritage becomes senile."

Speaking about a north-south economic divide he also said: "Too often we are seeing communities across the north of England bearing the brunt of the economic downturn. We need to see a level playing field."
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 03:03 PM

In the late forties my father moved from Tyneside down to Middlesex because the South offered far more in the way of opportunity and economic growth than the depressed North where shipyards closed and heavy industry died. He did very well. On visiting our Geordie relatives I was shocked even as a young girl at the difference in our standards of living. So it isn't a new thing.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 10:47 AM

"It seems living in the UK is no longer equal"

It never was, and never will be.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: selby
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 01:48 AM

A report suggests that HS 2 is not the problem solver the government would like us to belief, also suggesting it will not assist the North

Demand for the HS2 high-speed rail project has "likely been overestimated", a think tank has said.

A report from the New Economics Foundation (NEF) also said the £33bn cost does not offer value for money.

Evidence that HS2 would promote economic growth or tackle the north-south divide was "limited", it added.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 04:49 AM

Of course that evidence is limited.

Limited by the fact that it doesn't yet exist.

What would have happened to northern prosperity, if a self styled "think tank" had said "Evidence that Arkwright's machine would promote economic growth or tackle the north-south divide is limited", and been believed?

There is always some self confident "expert" Jeremiah, who will proclaim till the cows come home, his belief that whatever is proposed won't work.

These types are almost universally proved wrong.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Stu
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 04:59 AM

Since when has it ever been equal? The south-eastern part of the country has had a disproportionate influence over the rest of the isles since the Norman invasion.

That so many people outside of England conflate London and the south-east with the rest of the country displays their own ignorance; anyone in the midlands, the south-west or the north will put you right.

The skew towards London-based stories in the press is always depressing, and the media bubble that exists within the M25 and spreads it's odious influence into the surrounding counties means much of the news is south-east based. Boy, don't we know it when they have snow down there! It could have been on the ground and cutting off villages for weeks up here and not a toot on the news.

Anyhow, my main concern about HS2 is that the south-easterners will discover that the rest of the country is beautiful, interesting and full of character and might want to come and live here.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 05:55 AM

They might well want to go and live there, stu, but the 'northerners' must remember not to be snotty to them and dismiss them as 'bloody southerners', which sometimes happens, unfortunately. The North/South Divide is deeply ingrained, and has existed for centuries. It includes accent, (the delineation of which changes quite startlingly across an invisible but identifiable line) hardiness, thriftiness, attitudes to sentiment (eg Billy Elliot) climate and geographical differences (eg big hills!) agriculture, diet and all sorts of character differences, which are generalisations but nonetheless quite evident. Southerners would have a lot of adjusting to do if they settled 'up there'.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: selby
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 01:07 PM

Just goes to show what the government thinks of the north

Fracking should be carried out in the North East of England, where there are large, "desolate" areas, a former energy secretary has said.

Lord Howell of Guildford argued there was "plenty of room" for developments and less concern than was the case over "beautiful natural areas".

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 01:51 PM

The song "Roben's Merry Men", about colliers having to move from Tyneside to Nottinghamshire, has the immortal couplet:-

"You'll have to change your language, lads
You'll have to change your beer"

Of course, this applies in the other, geographical, direction as well!

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Penny S.
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 03:45 PM

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Musket smiling
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 04:02 PM

Aye Don. When the Geordie miners came down to work at our pit, the homesickness was worthy of a bit of ribbing.

In the electricians shop on the surface there was a photograph of a whale. As most of our lot went fishing, the caption said it all..

"Oop North roach"

I suppose, thirty odd years on I can admit I wrote it.

Mind you, having lived and worked at both ends, the beer was better at our end. I got by with my Collins English Geordie Geordie English phrase book. When the Barnsley lads came, I had a Collins English Dee Dah Dee Dah English phrase book.

Happy days.

Till the f*cking strike that is.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 08:53 PM

It's quite a bit colder up there.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 06:12 AM

Given that Virgin Trains claim a London to Manchester journey time of 2 hours and 8 minutes, why the need for HS2?

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Stu
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 06:32 AM

So rich people can get to London fifteen minutes quicker!

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Musket
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 06:37 AM

The non stop Doncaster to Kings Cross I occasionally catch in a morning does it in 100 mins, just over an hour and a half.

The west coast and Midlands routes are slower, and although I live near Doncaster now, so it is easy, I used to live in Derbyshire. I used to drive from near Chesterfield (which has trains to London...) to Retford to catch an East coast line train, as the 6.50am from Retford got in at about the same time as the 5.35 from Chesterfield.. I believe it has got a little better recently mind...

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 11:21 AM

Until London has beautiful hills & valleys there will never be equality.

I'm glad I live in Wales!

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 11:49 AM

I lived in London twice. Awful. And expensive, as Don says above. I remember coming up to the Midlands one weekend to visit friends and we went to the pub, ordered three pints and I gave the barman two pound coins. He gave me a funny look and gave me £1.04 back!

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 01:56 PM

What a good memory you have!

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Musket
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 02:06 PM

I rent out my London flat now, and rarely go. (Cost pennies at the time, embarrassingly valuable now.) If I am down on business, I usually commute back. That said, if I were still single, I would possibly be living in the flat as I enjoy being there. I am a Derbyshire / North Notts lad, living in North Lincolnshire, but when I am in London, I don't quite feel the "I'm in this city somewhere" that I get at the Leeds or Newcastle offices I go to.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 03:49 PM

Is that good or bad?

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 05:32 PM

Just a counter observation to the negative statement about London.

The "no longer" aspect of the thread title seems superfluous regardless of you view on equality. Equality of opportunity is about as far as aspiration can take you.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 06:01 PM

People often seem to forget there is also The East. Here in Norfolk we don't identify with The South at all, and certainly have no affinity with London. But we also regard The North as 'up there'. East Anglia is sometimes missing from surveys, statistics, reviews etc, as if we don't exist. Good! I like being out on a limb in this quiet little backwater.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 07:44 AM

I could not understand companies wanting to have all their staff based in London. I can understand the wish to have a main office of an International company based in the capital as it is important for their trade, but to have, for instance, the accounts office in the capital always beggared belief. I worked for a multinational organisation for a few years, their accounts office could have been anywhere in the world. We had electronic communications, we could scan, email, data transfer, fax information all over the world. The cost of providing office space in London was extortionate in comparison to most Northern towns, this together with normally lower costs for staff would have meant considerable savings to the organisation but they seemed to have a "London is best" mentality.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 02:23 PM

HS2 is all about providing the companies who get to build it with big profits. Currently they're all lobbying away like mad and competing with each other to get the big, fat, juicy contracts. In the world of politics and high finance no-one does anything for the public good any more - it's all about profit.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: selby
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 03:14 PM

A large number of councils in the north do not want HS2 they would rather have the money for local investment and jobs
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 04:13 PM

"A large number of councils in the north do not want HS2 they would rather have the money for local investment and jobs"

Possibly - but what they'll probably get is an enormous white elephant which will scar great swathes of the British countryside forever. And there'll be no more investment and jobs than have been generated by countless other crazy schemes. I was wandering around Manchester city centre yesterday - enormous steel and glass white elephants everywhere and no real difference made to the investment and jobs situation. If I'd wandered a mile or two out of the city centre I'd have seen great swathes of post-industrial desolation - some of it now with great big, pointless steel and glass monstrosities randomly plonked on it. Pointless, but highly profitable for the equally monstrous, greedy, blood-sucking vampires who built it!

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 01:49 AM

The Royal family, The House of Lords, The aristocracy, the public school system, the empty first ckass carriages. the the tory party, the rich list....even when dinosaurs ruled the earth - the English ones called themselves Tyranosoraus Rex....

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Green Man
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 04:13 AM

All of the companies that want to build HS2 will undercut each other until its certain that whoever builds it will go over budget. Anyway would you want to sit in an aluminium tube constructed by the lowest bidder doing 200 miles per hour on tracks that were built to the cheapest price. Nah!

Better to spend the money housing homeless BRITS and deporting the criminal foreigners that are taking up jail space and funding. Speaking of criminals we could start with the Bankers.

GM

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Musket
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 04:18 AM

And then start on the xenophobes eh?

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 05:35 PM

England never really made much sense as a single nation run centrally from London... Bring back the Heptarchy. (In Essex County Hall they've still got pictures up of all the Kings of Essex.)

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 06:04 PM

""HS2 is all about providing the companies who get to build it with big profits. Currently they're all lobbying away like mad and competing with each other to get the big, fat, juicy contracts. In the world of politics and high finance no-one does anything for the public good any more - it's all about profit.""

What a sheltered life you must have led Shim, if you think that greed for profit is a modern concept.

With the exception of the altrists who started the NHS, this has never been the case.

Even the introduction of a National Welfare system, owes its very existence to companies that made fat profits on the building of necessary infrastructure.

And who do you think built the existing railway system, and the existing roads, the water supply system, the gas supply system and the electricity supply system, ALTRUISTS?

Not so's you'd bloody notice!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 07:00 PM

Who built those things? Workers.

But it is also true that the exploiters then were often more willing, for reasons that weren't particularly admirable, to pay for stuff that was of some public value. And often enough, especially in the case of railways they miscalculated the cost and undertook, for profit, enterprises that actually entailed substantial losses, to the benefit of the public.

When they miscaculate these days they tend to do it in ways that don't bring any equivalent benefit to anyone. And we end up bailing them out, so we lose twice.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 08:36 PM

""Who built those things? Workers.""

I think you know that I was talking about the companies which employed those workers Kevin. They certainly were not doing it out of any altruistic purpose, but for fat profits.

And one could go further back and examine the motives of the 19th Century fortune hunters of the British Raj.

Greed is at least as old as the first meeting between two tribes of Hominids, and maybe older if there were dissenters within tribes.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: selby
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 03:51 AM

Yet again the Goverment shows contempt for the North

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/general-news/yorkshire-faces-being-sidelined-over-tour-after-whitehall-plot-1-5919092

Keith

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 05:09 AM

'People often seem to forget there is also The East. Here in Norfolk we don't identify with The South at all, and certainly have no affinity with London. But we also regard The North as 'up there'. East Anglia is sometimes missing from surveys, statistics, reviews etc, as if we don't exist. Good! I like being out on a limb in this quiet little backwater.'

Well said, Eliza! When we get devolution for East Anglia, we in Suffolk would even be prepared to bring Norfolk up to our standards!

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 05:36 AM

LOL Rusty! E Anglian Passports and Border Control. Language lessons compulsory for all Northerners and Southerners. "Dew yer faather haa a dickey, bor?" etc. We in Norfolk might even be persuaded to allow you Suffolk lot entry into our territory occasionally, s'long uz yew behairve yersells.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: selby
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 06:31 AM

Good on you Eliza Rusty Dobro I can only comment on what I know, but you seem to suffer the same fate as us. London and the South East is where its at and stuff everyone else. I was talking to some London people last weekend they where telling us about how good the channel tunnel and Eurostar was, telling us how cheaply they can get to France, they had no concept of how time consuming expensive and down right difficult it was for anyone else
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Musket musing
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 06:52 AM

Hah! We DREAM of having the advantages of Norfolk!

You have Alan Partridge, so stop saying you are deprived.

And when did you have to ever debate the routing of a new motorway eh?

Your concertina players have an inbuilt advantage too for that matter.......

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 07:10 AM

poor Musket - living the desolate North - even tories feel sorry for him....

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Stu
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 10:54 AM

"England never really made much sense as a single nation run centrally from London"

Spot on. Thinking about it, I wonder if the English know this but never articulate it; this hypothesis explains why regional identities are so strong and there's so little appetite for English nationalism amongst normal people.

The South-East is NOT England, but so many non-English don't seem to be able to get their heads around that concept.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 11:04 AM

""I was talking to some London people last weekend they where telling us about how good the channel tunnel and Eurostar was, telling us how cheaply they can get to France, they had no concept of how time consuming expensive and down right difficult it was for anyone else""

So you object to any new rail links that might make it easier.

Yeah! That'd be common sense, Nawth Country Style!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 11:19 AM

At least the Nawth didn't vote for Thatcher....so more common sense that you, at least.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 11:29 AM

Yes Musket, I suppose having extra fingers does give one an advantage!
And yes again ... Alan Partridge...what can one say? Regarding motorways, I'm terrified of them and so glad there aren't any in Norfolk. Even our A roads are very quiet. The A1067 for example runs by our village and there's often nothing in sight in either direction. We have a tiny and friendly airport, which has flights to Amsterdam, Paris etc and holiday flights to Turkey, Tunisia, Malta and Spain. Our Norwich bus and train stations are simply beautiful and have good connections, so we're not so very isolated. I think Stu has a good point - we're very 'regional' in UK, and each region has its own culture, accent, history and traditions. There's also an undercurrent of rivalry and even dislike between them. But we DO hang together as a nation at events such as the Jubilee and Olympics.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: selby
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 12:06 PM

Don

In a word YES we can already get to London in 2 hours the point i was trying to make perhaps badly was that it was easy if you live in the south to get to France. Having checked a eurostar trip from York to get connections without having to stop in hotels etc it is in my opinion prohibitively expensive but for people down in London it is a good service they have. It has already been stated that HS2 achieves nothing the money used for this white elephant would be better invested in jobs up in the north now
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Musket sans devolution
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 12:13 PM

Mind you. Nothing wrong with Norfolk. Even plucked up courage to drive through it the other week to get down to Southwold for a holiday.

And of course, I miss my little miss from Diss.

The national jokes about Norfolk are played out locally about the two North Lincolnshire rivals. I live these days in one of them. Being a Derbyshire lad, it's not so much superfluous digits as sheepish relationships we get ribbed about.

All part of the tapestry. Although I do notice younger people have less parochialism about them. This is a good thing in one way but not for perpetuating traditions.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 12:24 PM

I rather like the inter-regional jibes and jokes, and of course I love the traditions and accents. Do you think in the far future, the young ones will have no knowledge of all that? I suppose they'll all be speaking a London 'innit?' type of language. Oh, sigh, Southwold... and Adnam's beer...sigh again... bliss!

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Stu
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 12:26 PM

" But we DO hang together as a nation at events such as the Jubilee and Olympics"

I see these as British, rather than English events. As someone who doesn't subscribe to all that nationalist nonsense this is fine with me.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 03:08 PM

""At least the Nawth didn't vote for Thatcher....so more common sense that you, at least.""

Maybe, if you had the sense to realise that the only people who ever voted for Maggie Thatcher were the MPs who elected her leader and the voters of the Finchley Constituency.

I voted for the best candidate in my constituency.

It's a mistake you lefties always seem to make, believing that everybody votes for a party.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 05:36 PM

Adnam's Southwold.
No northern froth.
Proper beer.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 05:42 PM

Adnam's IMO is the King of Beers. Nice and bitter (some recent commercial beers are far too sweet) and as you say no thick froth. Is it the Lord Nelson pub near the lighthouse that sells Adnam's direct from the brewery? It's so long since I was there.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: selby
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 06:16 PM

Sorry but how can anyone drink a pint without a good creamy head :-) northern thing
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 05 Aug 13 - 01:23 AM

I spent a fortnight's holiday last month on the same street as the lighthouse. The pubs are all dog and musket friendly, the beer divine and the food wonderful.

On another thread at the time I noted that I used to always see pickled eggs in the pubs where I come from. Southwold is more up market. I took a photo of a jar of pickled quail eggs. ....

The Nelson is a street further up. The name of the one on the corner across from the lighthouse escapes me but it was a calling post on our way out each evening. ..

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Aug 13 - 02:15 AM

But, Eliza, Southwold is over the border in Suffolk! Shouldn't you be patronising Sheringham or Wells-next-the-Sea?

LoL

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 13 - 03:51 AM

I used to love holidays in Wroxham and yarmouth - I seem to remember it used to take five hours by road from Mansfield area.

In my childhood - the bottleneck , coming from Boston , was the bridge at Kings Lynn. The traffic moved so slowly, there used to be people selling ice creams to the trapped drivers.

Norfolk has always been a bit inaccessible. Where I live in Dorset seems a bit like that. I used to love the freedom motorways gave me. Based just outside Nottingham, I could be at gigd in Derby, Nottingham, Sheffield, Leeds, Leicester, Lincoln.

Obviously if you're young and you have to get to somewhere where there is work and opportunity. Really its a bit silly - we should be able to get round a little place like England very easily.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Musket whistfully shrinking England
Date: 05 Aug 13 - 01:00 PM

Aye Al. I was used to, for many years, getting from home, (Worksop then Shirebrook) to my sister and her extended family around Weymouth. Bloody long drive back then. Through the middle of Bristol, then A37 through Yeoville.

Last year, went to see my niece and found the journey hasn't altered in all that time. Still driving through the middle of the Babycham factory......

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 05 Aug 13 - 01:16 PM

Yeovil. Tut, tut!

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Musket giving away ipad
Date: 05 Aug 13 - 01:34 PM

I put Yeovil!!

Curiously, I cant find a place in The USA called Yeoville, that would normally answer Apple's insistence that UK dictionary exists but it hardly bloody does...

Anyway, after some other howlers recently, that never occur with my Samsung phone.... I am going into the iPad settings. If you could see even this post before I go back and change it to what I actually put.....

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Aug 13 - 02:28 PM

Keith, I only like thick creamy froth on a tepid Guinness, or stout. But all this talk of beer makes my mouth water. I only drink milk and dozens of cups of tea nowadays! Suffolk does have some beautiful places, I adore Lavenham for example. It's true we should be able to get round our little country more easily, but we can't because there are so many towns and settlements the roads have to make detours. Also the older towns have road systems which fan out from the centre like spokes in a wheel. This means a lot of Ring Roads and complicated junctions. The hardest route is East - West, from say Norfolk to Devon or Wales. It's easier for us to fly to Edinburgh (1hr 15mins from Norwich) than to get anywhere by road from Norfolk!

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,2ndwitch
Date: 05 Aug 13 - 05:06 PM

Beer? The king, queen, emperor and be all and end all of beer is Holts. Just about northern, given where the brewery is.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 06 Aug 13 - 02:57 AM

My wife is also from Norfolk. Old Costessey on the outskirts of Norwich. We used to visit every year but her parents moved to Scotland about 10 years ago. Just had a holiday in Wroxham though and it was good to visit after a bit of a break. Day on the Broads; North Norfolk coast; couple of days in Norwich; Yarmouth; a visit to relations in Woodbridge, Suffolk; and lots of local beer. Really enjoyed it.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Aug 13 - 04:00 AM

Just remember that if East Anglia were more accessible it would be ruined in a few years.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 Aug 13 - 05:56 AM

Glad you had a good time in Norfolk, Allen. My parents moved to Taverham from W London many years ago on retirement, and Taverham isn't far from Old Costessey. We go to Wroxham at least once a week, to Roys. And you're quite right Shimrod, I should actually shut up about how lovely and unspoiled Norfolk is. We don't wanr people arriving in their droves and messing the place up. North Norfolk is already a mass of posh haute cuisine restaurants and foodie outlets, even a Posh Hat Shop (How daft is that? 'Chelsea-on-Sea'. Burnham Market is now known as Burnham-Upmarket.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 06 Aug 13 - 07:10 AM

on T: Of course that evidence is limited.

Limited by the fact that it doesn't yet exist.

What would have happened to northern prosperity, if a self styled "think tank" had said "Evidence that Arkwright's machine would promote economic growth or tackle the north-south divide is limited", and been believed?

There is always some self confident "expert" Jeremiah, who will proclaim till the cows come home, his belief that whatever is proposed won't work.

These types are almost universally proved wrong

Actually, Don, more times than not, when it comes to government-type projects,the Jeremiahs are proved right, whether it be PFI or the endless hugely expensive IT projects for various depatments such as the fire service, health service etc which inevitably crash and burn after wasting billions.

HS2 is solving a 20th century problem with a 19th century solution. We no longer *need* to move masses of people around for most types of work. My office is in Axminster, Devon. I live in Kent. I go there maybe 2 weeks in 4, for 3 days. I could visit a lot less and still be as efficient. My company's HR Dept is in Elland, Yorkshire. I've never been there, and can think of no occasion when I'd need to. Our Head Office is in Abingdon, Oxfordshire. I've never been there either and again can't think why I'd have to.

If the government wants to spend on infrastructure, let's spend on super-high-speed broadband throughout the country. Even the high-speed broadband we have now runs at a fraction of the speed of South Korea's....they spent money on getting maximum speed broadband nationwide several years ago and have been reaping the economic benefits ever since. I've just taken ages to download some big data files ( a whole bunch at 300 Mb each) which I'd have been able to grab in a fraction of the time if I'd been in Korea!

Shovelling loads of people into a train to move them in either direction 25 minutes quicker than they can get there at present is a hugely costly solution in search of a non-existent problem.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 06 Aug 13 - 09:31 AM

Interesting spell checker, Musket!

"HS2 is solving a 20th century problem with a 19th century solution". Nailed it, Rob.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Aug 13 - 09:45 AM

I take your point about IT etc Rob, but only a very small number of employees would be able to work in that way.

You seem to be under the impression that most workers could carry out their work sitting at a computer screen.

Classic case London!

Half a million people commute in and out daily. They pack themselves like cattle into entirely inadequate public transport and suffer agonies in so doing.

Do you honestly believe that they would do this if they didn't have to be physically present at their workplace?

I worked as a chemist in a public health lab in Aldgate years ago.

I couldn't earn as much outside London, but I equally couldn't afford to live IN London. So I commuted from Kent, where my rent and rates combined were less than my rates in London (rates being the 1970s equivalent of council tax).

It was absolute Hell, but I had to be present at my bench daily, and the guy who does that job today is almost certainly in the same position.

I would tend to think that this applies to at least 80% of commuters to major cities throughout the UK.

Any new transport which reduced that hellish crush would have been welcomed with open arms by those who shared my experience.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Musket key by key
Date: 06 Aug 13 - 09:50 AM

Aye it is. Mind you, not the spell checker, never used it. The autocorrect is the issue.

I digress.

HS2 is on the same thought process that reckoned sending BBC to Manchester or NHS to Leeds would solve issues in Rotherham or Accrington. Knowing the Leeds bit fairly well, and remembering the East coast line isn't bad, the NHS hq in Leeds is called Quarry House and the first train to London in a morning full of our people to meet with the very top management is known by our lot as Quarry House Express. Not sure what the moving North solved......