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Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.

GUEST,saulgoldie 15 Jun 13 - 06:38 AM
Bill D 15 Jun 13 - 10:35 AM
breezy 15 Jun 13 - 10:50 AM
SINSULL 15 Jun 13 - 11:15 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Jun 13 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,CS 15 Jun 13 - 12:26 PM
breezy 15 Jun 13 - 03:01 PM
Ron Davies 16 Jun 13 - 10:35 AM
GUEST,Grishka 16 Jun 13 - 11:56 AM
Ron Davies 16 Jun 13 - 01:43 PM
GUEST,Grishka 16 Jun 13 - 03:51 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 17 Jun 13 - 12:40 PM
MGM·Lion 17 Jun 13 - 02:43 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 17 Jun 13 - 03:15 PM
GUEST,Grishka 17 Jun 13 - 04:58 PM
Ron Davies 18 Jun 13 - 02:16 PM
Ron Davies 18 Jun 13 - 02:24 PM
Ron Davies 18 Jun 13 - 02:54 PM
GUEST,Grishka 18 Jun 13 - 03:46 PM
Ron Davies 18 Jun 13 - 04:36 PM
GUEST,Grishka 18 Jun 13 - 05:20 PM
Jeri 18 Jun 13 - 05:50 PM
Jeri 18 Jun 13 - 05:56 PM
GUEST,Grishka 18 Jun 13 - 06:06 PM
GUEST,Grishka 18 Jun 13 - 06:08 PM
Jeri 18 Jun 13 - 06:54 PM
GUEST,Grishka 18 Jun 13 - 07:00 PM
Ron Davies 19 Jun 13 - 12:13 PM
GUEST,Grishka 19 Jun 13 - 12:40 PM
Jeri 19 Jun 13 - 05:45 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Jun 13 - 07:19 PM
Ron Davies 19 Jun 13 - 09:14 PM
GUEST,Grishka 20 Jun 13 - 05:07 AM
Jeri 20 Jun 13 - 06:36 AM
Ron Davies 20 Jun 13 - 11:47 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Jun 13 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,Grishka 20 Jun 13 - 12:58 PM
Ron Davies 20 Jun 13 - 02:19 PM
GUEST,Grishka 20 Jun 13 - 02:56 PM
GUEST,Grishka 20 Jun 13 - 02:58 PM
Ron Davies 21 Jun 13 - 10:27 AM
GUEST,Grishka 21 Jun 13 - 11:54 AM
Jeri 21 Jun 13 - 06:21 PM
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Subject: Folklore: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 06:38 AM

This is the most amazing rendition I have ever heard. And, true to form, there were plenty of racist comments. Most, however, were positive.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2c4YXGNjx8

Saul


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 10:35 AM

The kid has an amazing voice! And though I am a rabid traditionalist about how the song 'should' be done, his treatment was sincere and moving and felt 'right'... he was promoting the song and its significance, not himself.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: breezy
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 10:50 AM

i caught it too.

highly professional, very well sung though I felt it a bit of a squeeze at the top of his range, tasteful falsetto.

I know nowt about him but was very impressed and did he watch the game too?

what odds on Miami?

breezy uk


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 11:15 AM

Actually, this was his second appearance. After his first, the internet was alive with racially rapid ignorami ridiculing everything from his costume to his performance. He was invited back as a slap in the face to that. And he was brilliant.
I will bet next year's salary that most of the rascist commentators could not recite the words to our national anthem without a cheat sheet.
SINS


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 11:18 AM

I hope that he has a voice teacher who knows how to develop his voice as he grows.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 12:26 PM

Personally, I actually hated the singing, but that's neither here nor there. I am however very surprised that so many people were apparently motivated to flood the internet with racist abuse towards a child singing his/the national anthem!


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: breezy
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 03:01 PM

I see that Julie Dale who sings at the Miami Heat home games is now 12 and has done so since she was 10 and has performed 120+ times !!

Think I'm getting the drift .

Some folks maybe getting bored.

hints of exploitation maybe.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 10:35 AM

So he didn't hit all the notes.   He hit the vast majority of them, sang with spirit, ended strong, has great stage presence, no nervousness at all.   Very impressive for anybody in that context, let alone someone so young.

More power to him.

I preferred his version to that of Jimi Hendrix, for instance--(if this be treason to "folk" or "our music" make the most of it). He didn't feel he had to bend the melody til it was barely recognizable.

After all, it's a great drinking song (though the original words are weird)--and probably a great test of whether you've had too much (if so, you probably have a really hard time hitting the notes, which are a challenge even stone sober).

I'm sure the racists, among other things, are bitter that their ethnic groups are becoming a minority in the US.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 11:56 AM

It is all about nationalist ideology, imitating the former Soviet TV. Whatever you see on TV, notably the so-called "live" or "reality formats", has been carefully "scripted" and staged. Even if the "racist flood" was genuine, it was calculated.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 01:43 PM

That's an interesting perspective. Did you live in the former USSR?


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 03:51 PM

Ron, I was a little boy then and there was no TV set around, but I know from reliable reports that kids of non-Russian look sang the Soviet NA on Soviet TV with similar "real" emphasis.

Just imagine little Sebastian: "Hey Dad, I want to sing on TV!" Dad: "Well, what would you like to sing?" - "The Star-Sprangled Banner, of course, because I love America and cherish her great values such as Democracy, Trivial Persuit, and Second Amendment ... ..."


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 12:40 PM

"non-Russian look"
What does a Russian look like? How does he differ from other members of the Caucasoid group? Or a native of Schnectady?


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 02:43 PM

Q ~~ He has snow on his boots ~~ everybody knows that!


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 03:15 PM

Oh, a Canadian-


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 04:58 PM

Q, as I wrote I did not watch those TV features myself. Of course the singers were supposed to represent ethnicities of the former USSR, many of which had typical facial features differing from those considered typical of Russians. The differences can be more marked than between Anglo-Saxon and Hispanic Americans, and thus sufficient for racist attitudes.

The propaganda trick I was referring to is to suggest that nationalists overcome racism and are thus morally superior.

(I just looked for samples on YouTube and found nothing perfect, but a lot of similar productions. Most are newer than 1970, when the propaganda was much softer and more subtle. If you are really interested: I think there are Mudcatters with more Soviet experience and knowledge than I have. I remember a "GUEST,Volgodon", there must be others.)


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 02:16 PM

"morally superior".    That's in your head.

Sure it's an appeal to the "melting pot" theory and those who believe it.

But it's one in the teeth for the racists and anybody who has any sense should be in favor of that, regardless of whatever theory you choose to come up to denigrate it.

So perhaps we can drop the 100% smug cynicism to about 98%.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 02:24 PM

"come up with"

And I'm afraid your credibility isn't the best, after you made an authoritative statement which, it turned out, did not come from your own experience, but rather "reliable reports".   I thought, with your handle, that you had in fact experienced this yourself.

It's not likely the racist flood was "calculated".   The US government does not control the media, even if you have paranoid suspicions along those lines.

And the networks would not be helped by a "racist flood" after the broadcast--what they want is high ratings during the broadcast.

So your parallel has serious flaws.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 02:54 PM

One more thing.   It might help to do just a tiny bit of research before running off at the mouth.

It turns out Sebastien wasn't even supposed to do it;   he stepped in when Darius Rucker couldn't make it.

So it's not likely any of this was "calculated", despite the fondest beliefs of the illustrious poster.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 03:46 PM

Ron, we agree that fighting racism is a noble cause. Like all such noble causes, less noble interest groups try to get hold of it. I do not know what interest groups are behind that TV station - I assume it is not "the US government" (who would that be, anyway?).

Calculated: TV "reality formats" have so often turned out to be carefully "scripted" that there is no reason to believe that this one is an exception. I concede that I have no proof in the particular case, but I have good reasons for my general scepticism. Disagree if you wish. BTW, this applies not only to commercial stations, but also to European "independent" state-funded ones.

Indeed, it is not so easy to control the internet, but it is easy to produce events that can safely be predicted to cause a "flood" as desired. If that fails, good old astroturfing can help, if done skilfully.

Summary: be sceptical (not cynical) about anything your TV set wants you to believe or feel. The idea "our nation must stand together (i.e. rally behind those in power)" has produced as many wars and atrocities as "we must keep our race clean" - like it or not.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 04:36 PM

I'm still a bit baffled. "reality formats"---how is his singing this song a reality TV show?   He sang the national anthem-- quite well for someone of his age-- as a stand-in for their scheduled singer.

I don't see any reason to read more into it.

I'm certainly glad you don't see the hand of the government behind this.   Some Mudcatters would have no hesitancy doing so.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 05:20 PM

In this case the word "live format" is more adequate - both suggest to the viewer that the truth is being shown. "Stand-in for their scheduled singer" (or conductor etc.) is such an old cliché that I hope not too many viewers take the producer's word for it.

TV stations are still extremely powerful worldwide, since they govern people's emotions. Try to resist.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 05:50 PM

Grishka, I don't have a tiny little clue what you're talking about. He sang the National Anthem at a Baseball game, and it was posted on YouTube, and presumably, Twitter.

"TV show" ?!


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 05:56 PM

HAHA! Another tiny little clue that I misplaced: BASKETBALL. San Antonio Spurs and Miami Heat. Baseball is the game where their knees don't show because the players are usually shorter.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 06:06 PM

The YouTube clip clearly shows the logo "abc", so it was obviously taken from TV. Even if we assume that the actual baseball games are not manipulated (- another subject -), the shows around them are pure showbiz and TV events. In this case, the TV "live" character is emphasized, since the boy's performance was meant to be "moving" rather than "stunning" in the sense of professional showbiz.

It is not my intention to spoil anyone's pleasure in baseball and in nice shows - just don't take everything for face value.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 06:08 PM

Nor basketball nor football in whatever sense.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 06:54 PM

The first time he performed, it was without the Mayor and all the hoopla.

They invited him back to sing at another game because of all the abuse on Twitter, so in a sense, this second event was scripted a little. We televise sports here, and this game was probably on ABC. Not a "TV show", but a game. A live game.

I doubt they had any idea what kind of shit storm a bunch of racist jerks would wreak.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 07:00 PM

OK, Jeri, you win.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 12:13 PM

You don't even believe that Sebastien was in fact a stand-in?      Look, that sort of thing does happen.    People do miss gigs and others stand in.

And, believe it or not, there is no plot to deceive.

Just how paranoid are you?

Not everything that happens is a conspiracy.

Though admittedly you are in fine company on Mudcat--there are others who see sinister plots everywhere.

But in this case there is no reason to believe that Sebastien was not a stand-in.    If you have actual facts to the contrary, as opposed to dark suspicions, please share them.

And even if he were not a stand-in (and so far there is no evidence to the contrary) , your theory is that he was engaged to sing for the express purpose of stirring up racists, so that non-racists can feel good about being Americans?

This is convoluted beyond belief, setting a high standard in this field even on Mudcat, which is graced with many masters of this skill.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 12:40 PM

Stirring up unreasonable opposition (e.g. racists) in order to emerge as the moral victor is an ancient propaganda manoeuvre, practised all the time in many countries. Recently Erdoğan tried to use it to subvert the genuine opposition.

I have no "theory" for you to believe, I am recommending you not to be too sure about anything you are suggested in the media, particularly on TV.

(And, BTW, regarding your post of 18 Jun 13 - 02:24 PM: If I had written "I was a KGB agent and pressed Tajik children to sing the NA in Russian" - would you then give me a higher rating of credibility??)

We have made our points amply. Believe what you want.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 05:45 PM

Imagine... a Mexican American singing the anthem in San Antonio, Texas. Yes, that's ever so provocative...

Next thing you know, it'll be an Irish American in Boston or a Norwegian American in Minnesota.

(snark, snark)


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 07:19 PM

San Antonio is only 63 percent Hispanic (of 1.4 million).

550 psychiatric cases held in the City. Equivalent to the number posting to mudcat?


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 09:14 PM

"ancient propaganda maneuver".    Anything you say.

"Just how paranoid...? "    At least we have the answer to my question.



And Q has a point with his observation.




Perhaps we should put the poster in a room with Guest, Refugee From Sanity and let them debate.   Could be quite entertaining. I'd be glad to sell tickets.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 05:07 AM

This discussion can be considered finished.

Just to prevent the worst of various misunderstandings, I would like to mention that I have no objection against the wish to feel good about being a citizen of one's country. The problem is that some people try to suggest others what to do in order to qualify for good citizens, with the killer clause "... or would you rather be a racist/fascist/reactionary?"

If you have clear evidence that my general observation and cautioning does not apply to this particular case, so be it.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 06:36 AM

Personally, I don't believe racists are 'good' citizens. They're obviously more prevalent that we'd like to admit

Is that (63%) all, Q? One also cant stroll down the Riverwalk without encountering a mariachi band.

I remember seeing Sebastian on America's Got Talent. It seems completely logical they'd call him--he wasn't an unknown. He DOES seem to have a problem with flatting out on non-falsetto high notes, but it's something the ear doesn't dwell on in a live performance. He'll undoubtedly get stronger.

If one sees someone of a certain race/ethnicity simply appearing in a public setting as an attempt to stir racists up, then
1) racists should be stirred up, exposed and dealt with...or shunned, and
2) in this case, it worked
3) expecting a person of a certain race/ethnicity to shut up an become invisible, and expecting others to treat them as if they were silent and invisible, is racist. We (in the US) have been there, done that, and hopefully learned something.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 11:47 AM

Question is what Sebastien's singing the national anthem has to do with "ancient propaganda".

The burden of proof is still on the illustrious poster who came up with this delightfully imaginative idea.    And on nobody else.

So far the connection appears to be only in his mind.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 12:16 PM

I remember San Antonio well from the time I was at Fort Sam Houston during WW2.
Although raised in a mostly Hispanic town (Santa Fé), it was my first exposure to a large city with a large Hispanic population, although mostly Mexican-Texano, quite different from my home town, where the Hispanic population was derived directly from Spain.

Later, I lived there for a short period. My favorite U. s. city, besides Santa Fé.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 12:58 PM

There is no burden of proof here, in particular not at the expense of boring other readers who understood my remark (not theory or allegation) perfectly well.

For the last time, in a nutshell: TV stations and other mass media live on emotional stories like the one told above, provided the felt message conforms to the owners' ideas. Many times TV stations have been caught "scripting" such stories, including some Internet reactions, so it may not be wise to simply take their word for anything, without additional knowledge (which in this case may well exist).

The "Got Talent" shows are good examples, though not even seriously claimed to be fair contests at all. (Genuine contests do exist and are in fact often full of genuine emotion, but not found suitable for a mass public.) What annoys me first of all is the assertion "... got talent", which needs no proof at all, not even for Liechtenstein. America got talent? Yeah, and fortunately a lot more!

Ancient trick of propaganda: Assume I want to be elected Roman emperor (by the army), so I hire a hundred persons to shout "Don't vote for Griscus because he is a damned Cappadocian!" Then I answer: "I can prove that none of my ancestors were Cappadocians, so my opponents are racist liars! There is nothing wrong with being Cappadocian, we are all Romans now! Vote for me, not for the racists! United we will stand against Arabia, and all their wealth will be mine!"


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 02:19 PM

You need not lecture, believe it or not. We are aware of the nature of "reality TV" and your other wonderful revelations.   Duh.

It sure is baffling however that despite being asked more than once for proof that Sebastien's singing the national anthem has a connection with anything you have mentioned, you have so far provided exactly zero proof.

Looks like it will be a long wait.

Even your smokescreen is rather pathetic.

If you think his singing the national anthem has anything to do with reality TV, then, as I said, you have a wonderfully lively imagination--and I'd love to see you and Guest, Refugee from Sanity have at it.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 02:56 PM

We are aware of the nature of "reality TV" and your other wonderful revelations.
So we agree on that, hopefully including "America Got Talent" etc. The show around sports events is so firmly connected with TV nowadays, that I would not put it past suspicion. The story "Hispanic boy sings the NA defying racists" is so wonderfully heart-warming that it seems hard to swallow for face value. I have no other information about the incident, and I do not feel obliged to research for it. If you know to the contrary, alright with me.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 02:58 PM

... hard to buy for face value ...


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 10:27 AM

"would not put it past suspicion".    Gee, what a surprise that a Mudcatter is unwilling to admit he's wrong--that his theory makes no sense in this case.   Thank you, Mr. Cynic.    As I noted, you're in good company on Mudcat, where heat frequently trumps light.


So it looks like the Second Coming is not here yet after all.   Ah, well.




By the way, nice fancy footwork--- but the burden of proof is still on you.   

We're still waiting.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 11:54 AM

Ron, as I wrote many times, I do not have a theory and I do not make any factual assertion that could possibly be proved or disproved, other than general observations which you correctly qualified as commonplace.

The ones who claim to know exactly what happened are you and Jeri, so if we were at court, you would be asked for a proof. But for the purposes of this conversation, it is not of much interest. "In this case I do not think manipulation is possible, because .." suffices.


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Subject: RE: Sebastian Sings The National Anthem.
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 06:21 PM

It's only that I think one has to be paranoid or deliberately ignorant to read the sort of shit into this that you have.


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