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ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June

ossonflags 18 Jun 13 - 07:48 AM
My guru always said 18 Jun 13 - 01:31 PM
GUEST 18 Jun 13 - 02:38 PM
ossonflags 18 Jun 13 - 03:16 PM
GUEST 18 Jun 13 - 03:22 PM
Noreen 18 Jun 13 - 08:03 PM
GUEST,Guest - not the previous prat 18 Jun 13 - 08:49 PM
Commander Crabbe 19 Jun 13 - 04:44 AM
GUEST,Previous Prat 19 Jun 13 - 04:45 AM
GUEST,Previous Prat 19 Jun 13 - 08:40 AM
Soldier boy 19 Jun 13 - 10:01 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 19 Jun 13 - 11:05 AM
Commander Crabbe 19 Jun 13 - 09:21 PM
r.padgett 20 Jun 13 - 03:21 AM
Herga Kitty 20 Jun 13 - 03:51 AM
ossonflags 20 Jun 13 - 05:48 AM
Mr Red 20 Jun 13 - 06:42 AM
GUEST,Ull lad 20 Jun 13 - 06:54 AM
GUEST,Previous Prat 20 Jun 13 - 07:31 AM
Doug Chadwick 20 Jun 13 - 07:47 AM
GUEST,another ull lad 20 Jun 13 - 10:59 AM
ossonflags 20 Jun 13 - 01:54 PM
Musket 20 Jun 13 - 02:02 PM
Commander Crabbe 20 Jun 13 - 10:26 PM
GUEST,Previous Prat 21 Jun 13 - 03:11 AM
ossonflags 21 Jun 13 - 05:14 AM
ossonflags 21 Jun 13 - 05:48 AM
ossonflags 24 Jun 13 - 04:19 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 24 Jun 13 - 07:05 AM
ossonflags 24 Jun 13 - 07:10 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 24 Jun 13 - 03:53 PM
GUEST,Ull lad 25 Jun 13 - 05:36 AM
GUEST,Linda Kelly 25 Jun 13 - 08:21 AM
Nigel Parsons 25 Jun 13 - 10:19 AM
ossonflags 25 Jun 13 - 01:18 PM
Commander Crabbe 25 Jun 13 - 08:25 PM
GUEST 26 Jun 13 - 01:33 AM
Kampervan 26 Jun 13 - 01:57 AM
r.padgett 26 Jun 13 - 02:48 AM
Commander Crabbe 26 Jun 13 - 05:22 AM
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Subject: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: ossonflags
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 07:48 AM

Hya everyone, to answer the many enquiry, I am happy to report I have just recieved confirmation that the One Show I recorded with Alistare McGowan weeks ago will be screened this very monday!!

As the programme is on regional accents and was recorded on the same day, I do believe Padge and Johny Booker are also on the same programme.

One up for Barnsley and Hull lads!!!


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: My guru always said
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 01:31 PM

WOW!!! You're really hitting the big time, congrats!


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 02:38 PM

I suppose having a strong regional or town dialect wasn't much of a problem for most people when they didn't travel far from where they were born and bred and didn't mix with others not of their own "class". However in the 21st century intelligent people ought to have progressed much more than we have in this regard. Speaking in a dialect which to all intents and purposes should have been placed in a museum of curiosities is backward, lacking in insight and quite honestly morbid. Dialects belong in museums not in common, everyday parlance.


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: ossonflags
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 03:16 PM

Gude point, well made tha' no's,! or mebbe happen, or dereagen doant ner!!


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 03:22 PM

Quaint


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Noreen
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 08:03 PM

This should be fun...! :@)


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: GUEST,Guest - not the previous prat
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 08:49 PM

So we all have to be the same then? Bet you work for tesco or some other equally harmful outfit.

It was the working class lads and lasses that preserved the music and songs we are all supposed to be interested in. All the best folk clubs were run or involved everyday people.


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 04:44 AM

Doesn't matter who you are, you will have some sort of accent, regional or otherwise. Whether it be Yorkshire, Lancashire, Highland, Lowland, middle counties or affected upper class.

Even the anonymous guest will have an accent of sorts which remains of course undetectable on this forum.

Having been fortunate enough to travel widely in my life my accent is quite a mixture of various ones. Occasionally one pops out and becomes quite distinct depending where I am and who I'm talking with.

It's, reet gradely, by heck, what ho, hoots jings help ma boab, eckythump.

Chris


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: GUEST,Previous Prat
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 04:45 AM

I am merely stating that in a country were the population has the opportunity, and the need in the many cases, to communicate with vast numbers of other people not from their own area local dialects are a hindrance. I have heard people say such things as "I can't understand anyone from Barnsley" or "the Cornish dialect is a closed book to me"
In the 21st century such dialects are an anachronism and serve only to bar modern, concise, communications between people. Actually most people affected by poor communications would be those "working class lads and lasses" Please note I made no reference at all to music and song as it is not pertinent to this particular discussion.
If we want to resurrect things from the past perhaps we could organise a Pageant of Plague or a Glorification of the Gallows. Let me be as presumptive as the second guest and suggest he or she would not relish such. As an aside why should he/she assume I work for Tesco?


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: GUEST,Previous Prat
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 08:40 AM

Commander I am not referring to accents but dialects. Like you I have lived in numerous places around England and have a "mongrel" accent at best. It is not accents I deem to be antiquated but local dialect which pertains to a small geographic area which, for the most part, is unintelligible to people not from that region. It is small minded, parochial, isolationist and is often, but not always, found in bigoted and prejudiced individuals. I am sure this will set tempers flaring but I would ask them what they would first think of if a "foreigner" i.e. a "cockney" moved next door to them. Bloody Southerner comes to mind. Light the blue touch paper, stand well back and watch the fireworks.


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Soldier boy
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 10:01 AM

WEll done Mick and Ray et al I will look forward to seeing (and hearing) you in all your glory on Mon 24 June.


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 11:05 AM

I imagine that the One Show researchers were a bit thrown that someone called Mick McGarry should come from 'Ull and have a proper East Yorkshire accent:-)

R


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 09:21 PM

Guest PP.

Ok I'll concede the point however if I understand correctly the aim is to outmode all dialects and have everybody speaking proper English so you and others can understand what they are saying.

This, in some "lets make everything standard" way would be very boring. Why can't someone call an alley a "ginnell" or a toilet a "cludgy"? That they can makes life more interesting and varied. They are also to my mind more descriptive in expression.

Making everyone speak proper English doesn't make it more understandable either. You only have to speak to an operative in a call centre far from our shores to realise this.

If you tried to insist that everyone in Birmingham, Cornwall, Lancashire, Yorkshire "should drop the dialect and talk proper" you are definitely going to get told where to go.

This attitude brings to mind the couple who sat next to us in the hotel restaurant on one of our foreign holidays and complained that there was no english food being served! We were in the middle of the Indian Ocean, what did they expect!

On another note, there are songs and poetry from the Scotland, Wales and Ireland sung and spoken in native tongues which are all part of our rich heritage. When translated into english they unfortunately lose the meaning and the essence of the original.

There is a comment under a You Tube performance of "Slan Le Maigh" that says "May this song never be translated into English" and I totally agree it would lose the setting completely.

The OP may hail from 'Ull and talk "East Yorkshire" but having spoken to his good self on a regular basis. Even though I hail not from these parts, he is perfectly understandable and did not merit your comment. "Quaint" though it was.

People are mostly "better for the knowing". Provided you can be bothered to get to know them better.

May your days be long, varied and interesting.

Chris


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: r.padgett
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 03:21 AM

Thanks for this!

Booker was on the prog with Alistair McGowan, I just supplied his phone number and ducked!

Shaw lane cricket club for Barnsley bit I believe with others

Ray


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 03:51 AM

Must try to remember to set the recorder before going to the folk club 50th birthday party!

Kitty


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: ossonflags
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 05:48 AM

He must have had a traumatic day Ray!! with John in the morning and me in the afternoon!!

They have told me there is only 45 seconds of me Soldier boy... some would say that is about 40 seconds to long!!

Yo Sir Rog, come in the Minster bar if you have time, be nice to see you again.

" I'll tell you now my love I am an exiles son..." with thanks to Mike Ryan.


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 06:42 AM

Barnsley & Hull? 'appen.


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: GUEST,Ull lad
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 06:54 AM

Oh no McGarry's Ego will be even bigger now !!!!!


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: GUEST,Previous Prat
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 07:31 AM

Commander, I in no way wish to standardise the way in which we speak English, the accent in Cornwall or Northumberland is fine but if you asked the use the Cludgy in Somerset you may find you have s**t yourself before the locals understood what you meant. Nor would I expect to eat English food in the middle of the Indian Ocean any more than I would want a song written in Gaelic to be translated into English. However when I go to Barnsley or Hull I would expect to be able to understand the locals as they ostensibly speak the same language as I do. In my experience, which is quite varied having lived in many places around England, people who persist in speaking in a dialect tend to be those of limited intelligence. A broad brush perhaps but nonetheless true. As I have stated previously, there is nothing wrong in having an accent but to "communicate" in dialect is small minded, parochial and isolationist.


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 07:47 AM

I'm all for standardisation. Now, how are we going to get the Queen to speak the way they do in 'Ull?


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: GUEST,another ull lad
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 10:59 AM

Aye ull lad, we'll never hear the end of this, he'll be milking it for yonks.


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: ossonflags
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 01:54 PM

Well, both Guest 'ull lad and another..or mebe you are the same?

You can bet yer sad arses I will milk it for all its worth!!!!

Modesty is only for those losers who have something to be modest about LOL!!

But hang on!!..... that is enough about you....lets get back to talking about me again....


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Musket
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 02:02 PM

Well, I'll gu tu foot o' are stairs.

Not seen Booker to drink with for almost 30 years. In fact, if I recall, he had his leg in paster the last time we got plastered... My responsible adult tells me it was at a ceilidh at Montgomery Hall in Wath, but I reckon it was at The Wheatsheaf. That dates the bugger....

Be rather prosaic to see him next on the goggle box.


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 10:26 PM

Previous Prat

If I were indeed needful of a visit to the toilet in Cornwall I would be sure to ask a native Cornish speaker, "Ple'ma an bysva?"

If they weren't a native Cornish speaker I would ask where the toilet is.

I have travelled widely in Cornwall and so far have not s**t myself yet! This may be due to the fact that I have taken the time (unlike you) to familiarise myself with the local dialect over the years.

And I am afraid you have misunderstood me in that. I never said that you personally would expect to eat English food in the middle of the Indian Ocean. I was likening your attitude and expectations regarding language on a brief visit to wherever, to that of the couple I met on my holiday's about food on their brief visit to a foreign country.

Neither did I suggest that you personally wished Gaelic etc. songs or poetry to be translated into English. The statement was intended to illustrate that there is inevitably some loss of meaning or context when translated, no matter what language or dialect.

I have been to both Barnsley and Hull and may I say that although I am not native to the area, I have found little difficulty in understanding those who were born and brought up there. As generally, apart from the occasional different word, they speak the same language "as what I does", albeit with a different accent.

Your broad brush, generalisation that people who continue to speak in their native dialect are of somewhat lower intelligence, is to say the least, crass and arrogant.

There are many dialect speakers of both greater and lesser intelligence, who have devoted and also given their lives to make this a better place for you to live in. So I suggest rather than whinge about their background and upbringing you give thanks they existed and also for their toil and sacrifice.

And, honestly, if being somewhat small minded, parochial and isolationist keeps anal retentive prats like you away from our door. Then I'm all for it.   

So if you want to stand in the middle of Barnsley or Hull (or anywhere else for that matter) and exhort the benefits of speaking English properly, help yourself.

Don't expect much enthusiasm from your audience though!

(Nor any further comments from me on this subject)

Have a reasonable day

Chris


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: GUEST,Previous Prat
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 03:11 AM

Dear Commander, the loss is mine. It must be getting harder to wind people up on this forum. I had hoped to generate some comeback from 'ull but all I've had is a calm response from yourself. Like you I'm out of here, for now. If it is any consolation to you I haven't actually believed a word of the nonsense I've typed but you know McGarry as well as I do and he'll be insufferable for months with this.


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: ossonflags
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 05:14 AM

Months!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you insult me sirrah!!!! I shall be dining out on this for years!!

I do so much self promoting even I believe me own bullshit at times. You see Prat, one of the great attributes of carrying a big ego is the abillity to laugh at oneself; if you know me as well as you say you do, you would have realised that by now.

Lighten up a bit lad, let us know who you are( by your style I have narrowed you down to two of my so called friends)

Come to Beverley.Fest this weekend, you will find me in the Minster Bar, Sun Inn or Hodgesons at the singarounds there we can sit us down and swap yarns about how amazingly attractive I am.

Oh by the way, in case you missed it, I am on the One show on Monday 7.00pm start..dont worry if you miss it I am having several hundred DVD's copied of the programme, PM me and I will make sure personnely you get a signed copy.


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: ossonflags
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 05:48 AM

Another bit of self promoting I know! LOL

Brian and I will be running singarounds all weekend on the racecourse.

7.30 untill late tonight:... Meet and Greet at the Minster bar on he racecourse.FREE ENTRY...

Saturday: 11.00 to 1.30... songs with a message hosted singaround.
1.30 to 3.00pm McGarry Nelson "Flowers on the water"
3.00pm to 6.00 pm.

Sunday: 11.30 to 1.30 ...The Early watch" hosted singaround by McGarry Nelson
1.30 to 3.00pm.... "Flowers on the Water"

3.00 to 5.00...Meet the Artist (McGarry Nelson) and "Raise the Rafters" hosted singaround by McGarry Nelson

Survivors session 7.30 onwards- hosted by Mcgarry Nelson

So if you sing play squeeze dance bow monologue or just want to listen you will find a very warm welcome awaiting you.and all above is FREE!!

Tonight I am expecting some very special guests from Hull.

KEEPING MUSIC LIVE


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: ossonflags
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 04:19 AM

Its tonight folks!!!


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 07:05 AM

We have turned the volume down on the TV set a couple of notches in anticipation :-)

R

ps

Can I have your autograph?


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: ossonflags
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 07:10 AM

Anytime Rog, so long as its not on a cheque lol!


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 03:53 PM

15 seconds of fame!!15 seconds more than me anyway.


R


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: GUEST,Ull lad
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 05:36 AM

Get ready for the milking to begin, thank goodness he wasn't on for long, imagine what he'd be like if he'd been on for an hour !!! (oh no)


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: GUEST,Linda Kelly
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 08:21 AM

you looked gorgeous-whoever you are.


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 10:19 AM

Commander Crabbe:
On another note, there are songs and poetry from the Scotland, Wales and Ireland sung and spoken in native tongues which are all part of our rich heritage. When translated into english they unfortunately lose the meaning and the essence of the original.

There is no reason that songs cannot be successfully translated into english. The english language has such a large vocabulary with so much redundancy (or precision) that the translator has a great choice of words or phrases used.

I trust that, with careful work, we can translate almost anything into english, whils retaining the meaning & essence.
For an example see Cân y Melinydd

Cheers

Nigel


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: ossonflags
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 01:18 PM

Thanks Linda...


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 08:25 PM

Nigel

Yes it is possible to successfully translate probably anything into English and get pretty close to the meaning of the original and maybe a portion of the essence.

Pysgod a sglodion may well translate into fish and chips but if the original was written to account for the Welsh accent, dialect and multiple syllables then fish and chips in a Home Counties or Black Country accent and dialect won't translate very well at all.

Words in the end, are just words no matter what language they are written in. It's only when they are lifted off the page by the narrator, poet or singer that they can be given an individual expression, emotion or context. The essence is made up of all of these things.

I never said they couldn't be translated and I'm sure the translation you cite was a labour of love. However, I would still prefer to hear it in the tongue it was written in.

Regards

Chris


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 01:33 AM

Bit o thread creep here chaps!arent you supposed to be talking about Mcgarry?


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Kampervan
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 01:57 AM

Yes, lots of thread creep.

I thought the programme was pretty good, just not enough of Mick and Johnny. I could listen to them talk all day (and understand them), it's a lovely sound.
And, I believe, a lot closer to original pronunciation of the words than many a newsreader.

K/van (in Kent)


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: r.padgett
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 02:48 AM

The Barnsley Lads went to Sidmouth ff years ago and we were camped up on the top of the hill next to Nick Jones and Tony Rose (a terrifc singer) well both of course

Come final night they invited John Booker for a pint and a chat ( but not me!)

Years later TR says we chatted with your mate but could niot understand anything he said

I said well I've been his mate for years and I still can't understand him!

Ray


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Subject: RE: ossonflags on One Show monday 24th June
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 05:22 AM

No not really, the OP was concerning a programme on regional accents that Mick was appearing on.

I'm also just responding to Nigel's post.

C


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