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Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??

Art Thieme 21 Jun 13 - 12:09 PM
GUEST,Grishka 21 Jun 13 - 12:20 PM
catspaw49 21 Jun 13 - 12:46 PM
catspaw49 21 Jun 13 - 12:50 PM
Art Thieme 21 Jun 13 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,kendall 21 Jun 13 - 01:08 PM
GUEST,Grishka 21 Jun 13 - 01:35 PM
Susan of DT 21 Jun 13 - 01:51 PM
catspaw49 21 Jun 13 - 02:22 PM
GUEST,c.g. 21 Jun 13 - 02:33 PM
GUEST 21 Jun 13 - 02:46 PM
GUEST,Grishka 21 Jun 13 - 02:51 PM
Art Thieme 21 Jun 13 - 03:16 PM
catspaw49 21 Jun 13 - 03:21 PM
breezy 21 Jun 13 - 03:37 PM
Alice 21 Jun 13 - 03:49 PM
Alice 21 Jun 13 - 04:01 PM
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Subject: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: Art Thieme
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 12:09 PM

want to End this that I always being begun.


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 12:20 PM

A Caribbean dance - easy question.


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 12:46 PM

Nice to see you in form Art. I have missed you as we all have. I'm sorry though, you cannot end this as the Beguine may be only Begin although it is Begging to be done....at least that's my feelings.

Grishka, Im glad you are at Mudcat but Art is a punster/joker of considerable talent and this was simply one of his little beauties. He's had a few health issues that have kept him off for some time but I'm glad as many are to have him back. He's pretty careful what he posts though as once back in the early days of the 'Cat when he became a bit exasperated at the direction of some thread topics posted, "What Condoms Do Mudcatters Wear" and what he thought was a joke to make a point, ran onto something like a thousand postings.

Luvya' Art!


Spaw


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 12:50 PM

Typo and pruufreed.....geeziz.....

A Beguine can only Begin although most are Begging to Be Done.


Spaw


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: Art Thieme
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 12:54 PM

catspaw49, Thanks for the Memories!! SURELY, It is grand to be in touch. Grishka, I truly had no idea it was a dance---after all the years of hearing it sung by Frank Sinatra, thank you.


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 01:08 PM

I have also wondered what that was, but too lazy to find out.


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 01:35 PM

Glad everyone is happy and apparently of reasonable health. Spaw, good one again (properly spelled either Béguine or Begijn, no relation).


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: Susan of DT
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 01:51 PM

Another use of the word from wikipedia - I went looking for this because had encountered it in a novel:

Beguines

At the start of the 12th century, some women in the Low Countries lived alone and devoted themselves to prayer and good works without taking vows. At first there were only a few of them, but in the course of the century, their numbers increased. This was the age of the Crusades, and the land teemed with widowed women [reference required] —the raw material for a host of neophytes. These single women tended to live on the fringe of towns, where they attended to the poor. About the beginning of the 13th century, some of them grouped their cabins together to form a community, called Beguinage.

The Beguine were not nuns; they did not take vows, could return to the world and wed if they chose, and did not renounce their property. If one was without means, she neither asked nor accepted alms, but supported herself by manual labour, or by teaching the children of burghers. During the time of her novitiate, she lived with "the Grand Mistress" of her cloister, but afterward she had her own dwelling. If she could afford it, she was attended by her own servants. She was bound to her companions by having the same goals in life, kindred pursuits, and a community of worship.

They had no mother-house, nor common rule, nor common general of the order; every community was complete in itself and fixed its own order of living. Later many adopted the rule of the Third Order of Saint Francis. These communities were varied in terms of the social status of their members; some of them only admitted ladies of high degree; others were exclusively reserved for persons in humble circumstances; others again opened their doors wide to women of every condition, and these were the most densely peopled. Several, like the great Beguinage of Ghent, numbered their inhabitants by thousands. Douceline of Dinge (ca. 1215-74) founded the Beguines of Marseille; her vita, which was composed by a member of her Beguine community, sheds light on the movement in general.[5]

This semi-monastic institution was adapted to its age and spread rapidly throughout the land. The women influenced the religious life of the people. Each of these institutions was a centre of mysticism, and it was the Beguines, the Beghards, and the sons of Saint Francis who shaped the thought of the urban population of the Low Countries. There was a Beguinage at Mechlin as early as 1207, at Brussels in 1245, at Leuven before 1232, at Antwerp in 1234, and at Bruges in 1244. By the close of the century, most communes in the Low Countries had a Beguinage, whilst several of the great cities had two or more.
As the 13th century progressed, the women tended to become mystics and relied less on their own labour, often turning to begging instead. In some cases, this shift toward mysticism caused problems for the Beguines. For example, Marguerite Porete, a French Beguine and mystic, was burned at the stake in Paris in 1310 by civil authorities (heresy was against state law at that time). She was condemned by the Church for heresy and accused of being a Free Spirit. She was finally condemned and executed for reasons that are still not entirely clear. One reason may have been her refusal to remove her book The Mirror of Simple Souls from circulation.

By the 14th century, some communities were absorbed by monastic and mendicant orders. Others developed into flagellants or other practices considered heretical. In 1311, Pope Clement V accused the Beguines of spreading heresy. They were suppressed under John XXII, Urban V, and Gregory XI. They were rehabilitated in the 15th century by Eugene IV.


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 02:22 PM

Susan since it is you, I'll believe it and find it interesting info. But about half way through it I was thinking this is the setup for a feghoot or something. Like one of those BS explanations I have written that sound like they're serious.    Such as the following which was explaining curley-pow on the Daintey Davey thread:

Light Brigades were specially trained in night fighting and carried torches into battle. After encountering initial successes against Buddhist Monks they were assigned to battalions fighting against the Curley Pow Warriors in Crimea. On the night of September 15th they devastated the entire Daintey Davey Division, setting fire to their curley pows and sending them running in flaming retreat across the battlefield with the Light Brigade in chase. The "blunder" oft referred to was that the Light Brigade followed too closely. When the flaming Curley Pow Warriors stumbled through an unseen fourth dimensional time warp encountering a future supply dump of the Nazis in WWII, the whole place blew up killing the remaining Daveys but also a goodly number of the Light Brigade as well.


Spaw


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: GUEST,c.g.
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 02:33 PM

Susan's right about the Beguines, and not setting you up. The last Beguine died in May of this year.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/05/economist-explains-who-were-beguines
(Hoping this will turn into a blue clicky) I was surprised, I
thought they have died out in the Middle Ages.


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 02:46 PM

I beguine to heaven. I beguine to find out what guine mean.

Lenny Bruce


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 02:51 PM

Some confusion seems to be going on. Spaw's witticism of 21 Jun 13 - 12:50 PM is obviously about the persons Susan is describing, the Béguines.


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: Art Thieme
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 03:16 PM

More to this than I ever thought when I began.

Art


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 03:21 PM

See Art? I told you Beguines Begin but even when Begging to Be-done often become more Beguiling and then you're shit out of luck! (which can leave you Befouled)


Spaw


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: breezy
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 03:37 PM

i beguine to Tavistock goosey fair


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: Alice
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 03:49 PM

For the dance from Martinique, you get more results with the spelling "Biguine".

At minute 1:18 on this video, see a Biguine dance.
http://youtu.be/0kzleKcrGeQ

And even better, a couple dancing the Biguine.
http://youtu.be/piJz1Nqs8Mw

Alice


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is THE BEGUINE??
From: Alice
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 04:01 PM

Just listened to Jo Stafford's recording of Begin the Biguine, and the image from the lyrics (and my personal memory) of falling in love in the tropics at night with the exotic music and the palms and beach was too much for my heart to bear!

Alice


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