BS: I am not perfect after all

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 06:08 AM

If I could do it as he does, I wouldn't blame others, I'd join a circus.....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 06:04 AM

Blaming it on the dog. Oldest trick in the book!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 04:31 AM

I get mine from the retired greyhound trust. It is basically x meat and rice formed into the nuggets. It is low this, that and the other. I used to get the Arden Grange equivalent, as the sanctuary we got him from used it, but the retired greyhound trust variety works out about the same cost and they do OK out of it too.

He does have that physics defying trick of shitting more than he eats. It is often about right (3 or 4 on the Bristol Stool Chart, my time in infection control coming in useful there,) and if it is loose, we can normally attribute it to a treat he may have had. Gravy bones are OK but the biscuits that look like small sausage rolls, give him two and he is off up the garden for a spray.. Delicate stomachs compared to the mongrels we have had in the past so he isn't allowed to have our left overs. The exceptions are the skins when we have poached salmon or any other fish where we aren't fussy about the skin, and when he is off his food, sprinkling a bit of parmesan over the food has him racing to the bowl. His treats for chewing outside include occasional tripe strips and boiled bones.

That said, he regulates himself, rarely over 30KG and rarely below. (At this moment, hot weather etc he isn't eating as much and I can make all the ribcage out, I can usually only see the back two. He is about at his racing weight now, and a Kg more won't hurt.)

His farts though.... It's that defiant look he gives you when he notices that you have caught a whiff.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 04:02 AM

Seriously Ian....if you give him dry food(nuts) as a base, you could try a lower protein variety.
There are special foods for retired racers on the market.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket gagging
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 04:36 PM

Coincidence? The sod has just walked into my study, stretched and farted simultaneously and walked out again.

A precursor for later in the lounge when we settle with a drink and music. He will lay down on his beanbag and be quiet. Before long, my responsible adult or I shall cry "Jesus Christ! Get in the bloody garden now!" "Are you going to mention it to the vet? I would!"

That is the Musket household most nights.

Good night.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 01:48 PM

The innocent look is the one to beware of......you always know its going to be a right stinker.

Dogs know all about farting and the effect it has on humans.

"Nature always finds a way to get its own back"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 12:00 PM

In the case of dogs, it's the silent farts you really have to watch out for. Deadly!!! You ask yourself, "My GOD!...WHAT has the wretched thing been eating????"

The dog gazes blandly into the distance...or gives you a mildly inquiring look that says...

"Wot?"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 11:29 AM

You must have, if you can hear 'em farting.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 10:52 AM

No further steps required my feathered friend.

I can hear a cockroach fart, never mind the dog. Not sure we even have cockroaches round these parts.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 10:09 AM

Well, that's a relief! One step closer to perfection. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 05:45 AM

This just in!

After weeks of ear drops that don't work and two days of olive oil that does.... Bloody good syringe this morning at the quacks. Perverse ecstasy you know..

The rest of the cotton wool finally came out, (false alarm the other week.)

Not only can I smell it when the dog farts, but I can now have sufficient warning by hearing it...

So, back to being perfect from now on.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 29 Jul 13 - 09:19 AM

Yes. I would argue it has colour....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 13 - 05:09 AM

You would argue about the color of the sky.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 29 Jul 13 - 02:36 AM

No it isn't. The poster has to be perfect too....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 06:41 PM

400th post. Now that is perfection!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 06:05 PM

"If the likes of Akenaton didn't bother breathing, the issue he loves to highlight would be less problematical to work on."

That can only mean one thing...no irony...no hypocrisy.
No one is working on solving the problem, everyone is busy papering over the cracks.

Still no answers Ian, seems that there is nothing in the armoury?
If you have nothing but a wish to stop me typing or intimidate me into not putting forward my point of view, your "argument" must be very weak indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket gettin.. can't be arsed
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 05:30 PM

A few million despicable views amplify the despicable view s few million fold.

Ask me a question that can be answered and I answer it. Prefacing it by saying something isn't working with no knowledge of how it works is not worthy of recognition.

Still breathing? Just wondered, considering you reckon I want you to stop. No. Im pragmatic. I'd rather you stop typing. The breathing bit that you have been repeating around the threads was as you were told to ask you how it felt to be hated. Not nice is it?

Well stop hating.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 03:27 PM

"That's why the likes of Akenaton poison respectable debate. it isn't jus that he has an opinon on gay health, he has repeatedly stated his opinion on gay lifestyle, gay marriage and pours scorn on anybody who disagrees with him as being "liberal."



Ian... are you really naive enough to think Homosexual health issues are not affected by homosexual lifestyle?

Respectable debate?...you dont debate, you have never answered any of the questions which I have asked, your contributions consist of undiluted abuse,

My opinion on male homosexuality is that as long as infection rates for all sexual disease remain at epidemic proportions and rising, it must be viewed as a highly dangerous and unhealthy lifestyle.
Millions share that view....To state that view is neither hateful criminal nor bigoted.

To remain silent on this issue is cowardly and cruel.
The really important thing is to bring the epidemic under control...do you have any ideas on how this is to be acheived...as an antidote to "Education, inclusion, and outreach"?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 01:37 PM

Unworkable.

That's the nice term we use when placating right wing politicians.

Occasionally, we smile when our doctors are put on the spot. One of our GU medicine guys told a local MP to drop his trousers and see how he felt when accessing the services.

No. I am diplomatic, believe me. Doesn't mean I suffer fools gladly though.

I love Mudcat because listening to the diveristy of views on many subjects, mainly musical ones but others too, I am delighted when my opinion changes after reflection on debate.

That's why the likes of Akenaton poison respectable debate. it isn't jus that he has an opinon on gay health, he has repeatedly stated his opinion on gay lifestyle, gay marriage and pours scorn on anybody who disagrees with him as being "liberal."

It's usually American GOP tea party types who use "liberal" as an insult. To hear it over here says all you need to know about the man.

By the way, the post was about ear wax. I know that you have gone native in the deep south, but self deprecation and irony shouldn't be too far from being recognised by you. Your first contribution was about ear wax, your second contribution was about my dog. Neither contribution useful, but there you go.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 01:18 PM

Penalties are not a problem for HIV. There are no legal penalties more severe than contracting a terminal disease.


Ake you are right to be concerned but the "solutions" you suggest are unworkable.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 01:13 PM

Yes Jack, but for most of the risky examples you post there are extreme legal penalties and the removal of "rights", like the right to hold a driving licence......

I am not advocating isolation, simply compulsory testing(every three months?) and compulsory contact tracing for major "At risk" groups.

The option of doing nothing, does not seem to make sense given the increasing rates of new infections within MSM.

Current procedure relies on male homosexuals volunteering to be tested, with no compulsion to release the names of contacts if they test positive.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 11:11 AM

iMusket,

This thread for most of us is whether or not you are perfect. See the title.

Akenaton, We have all acknowledged that HIV is a problem. We have all discussed and generally agreed about what is being done.

As far as what can be done. What you seem to be proposing seems impossible short of detention camps to protect your men from their own nature. Keep in mind that HIV is not the only risk arising from the recklessness of young men. Drunk driving, speeding, risky recreation, illicit drug use and violent crime are all highest among young men.

"Education, Inclusion and Outreach" worked for MOST kids my age when I was growing up. It is the only feasible approach available now.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 10:51 AM

"This thread is about ear wax. He hijacked it with bigotry and you and your mates weighed in with Jesus."

Can't speak for Jack, but I wrongly assumed that there was a little more in your head rhan earwax.....apologies.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 10:43 AM

You did not try to debate, as you have no answers to my questions or cohesive argument to use in debate.

This "discussion"(over the last few days), is about the best way to cut death and infection rates amonst homosexuals, these rates must be cut...they are too horrific to be allowed to continue.
The procedures you support, "Education, Inclusion and Outreach"(psychobabble), have been tried for ten years and have failed miserably.....if you can't see that, then you should never have been in your job.
You admit,reluctantly, that males are naturally programmed for procreation, yet deny that male to male sex has the capacity to be very dangerous and unhealthy.
Do you really think that young homosexuals are in a position to regulate themselves?....The facts say otherwise.

When an epidemic is in process, the most important thing is to bring it under control.....Socio-ideology comes a poor second.

I've just thought of a new word that you may find handy as a term of abuse......."Ideologue"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 09:20 AM

Unlike you I don't have philosophy or other political twaddle to worry about. I like many others plan the logistics for health care to be delivered. No fear, no favour, no judgement. No one in health care would nor indeed could deliver your suggestions.

I was I suppose fairly senior in Dept of Health years ago but now as a director of an NHS trust, I get fed up of having to factor ignorance and ideology of others when planning health care. Not an easy balance but idiots like you don't help.

No you don't hear what Jack is saying. Whenever those you don't like say it, your vicious streak comes through. Nobody wishes you dead so stop this victim complex. It fools no one. Your wish for gay people to be dealt with is bad enough. As I said, I tried to debate with you and failed.

You are beyond decency.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 07:56 AM

Incidentally...I did not highjack this thread, this was the first reference to homosexuals....by Ian himself!

"The best thing about greyhounds is that they are non judgemental. He even goes up to gay people for a fuss.   I take it yours do too Akenaton?"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 06:56 AM

I hear you Jack, But surely the point , Something will HAVE to be done!.....The present procedures are not working.

A 21% increase in MSM hiv infection rates in London between 2011 and 2012... and annual rises in the UK of 10% amongst MSM, simply cannot be allowed to contiue.   To say just carry on with a status quo which is patently useless, is not an option in a civilised society


Regarding Ian, I do not verbally abuse him, wish him dead,or use childish names. The most I have said about him personally is that he is a most "unpleasant fellow" to debate with, but I suppose other less civilised forums are full of such people and we should count ourselves lucky.

The worrying aspect is that someone as agenda driven as Ian, at some stage, appears to have had a position of some authority in our health services. I would like to see our health officials more concerned with saving lives and reducing disease, than furthuring their own socio/political ideology.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket being patriotic
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 02:38 PM

I don't have a position. You have linked to the facts I have tried to put out.

I tried to reason with him. I even took you up on the offer of not being shouty but you know what?

You can't educate pork. Akenaton is convinced secondhand citizens would be the answer to his irrational fear of anybody different. No idea how he leaves the house because there are few as bitter and twisted as he is.

This thread is about ear wax. He hijacked it with bigotry and you and your mates weighed in with Jesus.

Then you wonder why I laugh in people's faces? (Metaphorically speaking. .)

This trying to reason is boring. My thread my rules.

Fuck him.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 12:39 PM

Musket, Ake, Do you two remember what you are fighting about. Because, other than the issue of Gay Marriage, which has been legally settled in the UK, and other than that each of you is trying to say the other is a wanker or tosser or whatever, there doesn't see to be much daylight between your positions.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 12:28 PM

"Human rights are less important than death, or a life sentence of disease? "

It looks like the UK already has HIV testing for new admissions to hospitals and GPs are testing in "high risk areas."

Other than looking for stylishly dressed young men and dragging them in off the street or canvassing design and hair studios, there doesn't seem to be much else to be done.



HPA- HIV

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket getting Pissed off now
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 12:02 PM

When you preface a question with a false assumption there is no answer till you drop said false assumption.





Goofus. Male promiscuity is, to my knowledge as hard wired for continuity as altruism is also. Morals stem from the latter apparently. It seems logical to me. Not an expert though. But if I am typical I certainly believed in try before you buy when I was single. Just like almost everybody else. Most religious abstention is based on resisting temptation, or so I am led to believe.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 11:43 AM

Musket: "What's sad is male hard wiring for promiscuity, gay or heterosexual."

..and after GENERATIONS, of what works, and what doesn't, in regards to the 'will to survive and reproduce' healthily, which ALL living beings on the planet have in common, mankind has boiled it down to a sense of structure, which gives us the freedom to keep going....they call it morals...and those morals trump promiscuity.
Just a simple fact, by definition.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 11:24 AM

So, I'll take it that is a YES.. NO..MAYBE then?

Yes Jack, I know what the procedure is, but I was asking Ian, if that procedure is patently not work as in the UK at present, how long should we allow infections to increase and to what levels, before we make testing and contact tracing mandatory for "at risk" groups?

Human rights are less important than death, or a life sentence of disease?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket agreeing
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 10:12 AM

Thank you. Here also.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 09:10 AM

The approach to HIV control here has tended to be PSAs for voluntary testing, free testing for the poor and highly publicized prosecution for those who knowingly pass on the infection. Mandatory screening by profile or otherwise is a no go in democracies that take civil rights seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 07:57 AM

You mentioned the stigma of isolation rooms, not me. I merely informed you that as we understand contact infections better and trust clinical staff to use barrier techniques, isolation becomes less necessary, freeing up room for aerosol infections. You said you didn't feel it discriminatory. I agreed. Pillock.

Contact tracing is carried out on a voluntary basis already. Making it compulsory can only serve to make it less common than it is now. The only time it becomes less than voluntary is when infecting someone as part of what is deemed criminal assault, (unprotected sex knowing you have an infection and failing to warn a partner) and the police reserve the right to investigate for victims. Experience shows that appealing for people to come forward is more successful before the police are involved.

Your idea works in police states such as Cuba as every health initiative is compulsory, hence no extra reason to keep away from the authorities. Their pick up rate is nowhere near their claim, according to WHO.

Failing to answer your questions exposes nothing. You haven't even asked a question that can be answered. If you had, any decent person would have to chisel out your agenda before finding an objective question behind it.

Bigotry isn't in any procedure. it is however in the forefront of your crusade.

I have tried reasoning with you and on that if nothing else, I have failed.

Back in your hole worm.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 06:18 AM

What are you going to do if your policy of "Education, Inclusion and Outreach" continues to fail so dismally? (please answer as failure to do so will expose your position.)

Will any other procedure be regarded as "bigotry"?

Were the Cubans wrong to impliment a policy of isolation, compulsory testing and contact tracing to almost irradicate aids in Cuba, while the epidemic continues to this day in countries which believe in "Education, Inclusion, and Outreach"?

Does your agenda mean more to you than a serious attempt to cut homosexual infection rates?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 05:56 AM

"Debasing the important public health issue by being judgemental doesn't help so unless you feel you can alter entrenched positions there is no use in debate. I very much doubt I shall reach a position of "Hey, you know? Bigotry might be the answer after all. "


I have suggested that the homosexual health figures will be affected positively by compulsory hiv testing and contact tracing.
This situation is already being hinted at by both health agencies, if infection rates continue to worsen......how does that make me a bigot?

In reference to my stay in hospital....I was put into isolation and had visits restricted to safeguard other patients....I never considered it discrimination......often the common good overides individual rights?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans hate
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 05:35 AM

Your blinkered views make you fail to see that I am aware of rises, aware of successes and failures in attempts to address them and in a position to have been involved in weighing up the evidence and trying to find a way forward.

Enforced screening based on judgement of lifestyle is a non starter so no point in debating it. It drives further underground. Many people attend GUM voluntarily for screening already, hence helping the validity of the statistics.

So we are left with education, inclusion and outreach. None of which would be useful if your remedies were tried. My concern is that some politicians listen to such dangerous bilge water. If I thought you unintelligent I wouldn't acknowledge you. I feel you are either misguided and compounding it or not a nice person to begin with. Fucked if I know which. But you aren't helping with your observations. Promoting monogamy and normalising lifestyle are key planks of the attempts to tackle lifestyle contracted STDs. Your failure to do anything other than call it distraction serves only to question your real agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 05:11 AM

I cant expect you to do anything about my experiences in hospital Ian, nor do I expect you to answer for them.
You continually say that the huge increases in hiv infection amongst male homosexuals are down to "stigma and discrimination" while it seems obvious that "stigma and discrimination" has decreased significantly over the last decade.
Civil union has been available for some time for those who want to pracice monogamy....one does not need to be "married" to be monogamous...but the take up rates are miniscule.

Are you prepared to concede that the extreme promiscuity which seems endemic to male homosexuality, has some relationship to the ever rising infection rates?

My point is that there are massive health problems associated with male to male sex, which need to be addressed in a serious manner.

Issues like "gay marriage" do not allieviate the situation, but are simply a sideshow to divert attention from the real health problems....not for the betterment of homosexuals, but to protect the "liberal agenda".
It seems to me, that this is the reason you try to shift the blame for homosexual health problems away from risky and dangerous behaviour, to almost non-existant "stigma and discrimination"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 02:53 AM

And some feel they need to give nature a prod.

What questions are you referring to? The ones any sane person would treat with contempt bear no further scrutiny in case debate somehow gives them credence. The others I have tried to give a perspective. I am as angry over your experience of sloppy infection control as I am elsewhere and hopefully gave an overview of slow but sure improvement as I saw it. The conspiracy theory you offered up is far more difficult to go along with. False reporting on clinical matters is a grave charge and the two Mid Staffs nurses who have been struck off this week were for far less crimes than the ones you inferred. False reporting can be genuine but false flag and false analysis can be bad but without malicious intent.

As you and others revel in quoting my name at any opportunity, I don't have the luxury of sensationalism when applied to healthcare so I cannot give credence to conspiracy theory any more than ignoring comments that address real issues in public health that seek to exacerbate the issue.

Anything else whilst I am here?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 07:03 PM

Why do you never make any attempt to answer a question Ian?

Nature always has a way of getting its own back on humanity

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 06:40 PM

True LH.

What's sad is male hard wiring for promiscuity, gay or heterosexual.

What's beyond the pail is exploiting it for the hatred that has been demonstrated on many threads. The smokescreen of concern has been blown out of the water so many times.

Jack. The argument "fuck off" is strong, non hypocritical and genuine. It portrays a position that leaves the other in no doubt as to your view.   Billy Connolly once said that you never read the phrase "Fuck off, he hinted."

I don't wish to catch flies. I wish to swat them. Debasing the important public health issue by being judgemental doesn't help so unless you feel you can alter entrenched positions there is no use in debate. I very much doubt I shall reach a position of "Hey, you know? Bigotry might be the answer after all. "

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 05:08 PM

It is promiscuity and failure to practice "safe sex" that leads to an increase in STDs.

And what leads to promiscuity? Well, many things do. One thing that appears fairly obvious is that the average man is more inclined toward being promiscuous (having casual sex) than the average woman is...given that women are on average more inclined to look for an emotionally satisfying relationship that provides some longevity and security. (Yes, I realize there are individual exceptions to that, but I'm talking about averages here.)

Therefore, it doesn't surprise me that male homosexuals are more inclined to have many different partners than, for instance, lesbians are...and that male homosexuals are therefore (on average) at greater risk of acquiring and spreading STDs. Also...how many of them bother to practice safe sex (using a condom) when they obviously aren't worried about getting their male partners pregnant?

I don't feel that this has any particular bearing one way or the other on a debate about the merits of gay marriage. It does have bearing on a debate about public health issues, however.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 04:49 PM

"A loving relationship leading to marriage doesn't increase STDs. Stigmatising does. More published papers on that than you could wave a Shitty stick at."

Oh! so how do you explain the record rates of all sexually transmitted disease amongst male homosexuals, when stigma and discrimination is at an all time low, Civil Union for homosexuals has been made law and homosexual "marriage" is almost on the statute book?........Your theory does not make sense.

I have never said that homosexual marriage would increase sexual disease...that would not make sense either, but neither does it address the problem of the epidemic.

I have always contended that homosexual "marriage" is a divisive smoke screen.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 04:16 PM

" Debate does."

Telling someone to F-Off is not debate.

Was there a logic course in all of your higher education?

How about psychology? Organizational behavior? Maslow's theory? Dale Carnegie?

You can catch more flies with honey....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 02:28 PM

No it doesn't.

Acquiescence doesn't lead to sustainable outcomes. Debate does. Debate starts when the rights of all are a given. Akenaton refers to the hypocrisy trap I laid regarding breathing. I rest my case. I respect him when he respects others.

A loving relationship leading to marriage doesn't increase STDs. Stigmatising does. More published papers on that than you could wave a Shitty stick at.

Other matters. Your filthy hospital was not acceptable. As sn inspector for a few years I saw things that would make your hair curl. No excuses and the only thing I feel content About is being able to effect regime change where we found fault and being a catalyst to improving the patient experience. Mind you, I used to inspect private hospitals too. They have walked a similar improvement path, albeit without media fanfare. Don't think chintzy curtains and air fresheners lead automatically to good care.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 12:30 PM

We are all adults and opinions expressed here have nearly zero effect outside this forum. There is no good reason to shout and curse here. But doing so undermines ones credibility.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 12:26 PM

"Shouty decency"

What is decent about suggesting that it would be better if a fellow member of this forum "stopped breathing"?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 12:19 PM

The hospital was filthy. I turned over a shower mat that had 5mm of hair and shit beneath it, tide marks on the bath I was encouraged to use after a very big hernia operation,excrement on toilet walls never cleaned in the three weeks i was in surgical ward, drain inserted when wound turned septic and no one available to change the bag when it filled with fluid, had to change dressing myself, no nurses on duty.
Bag became full and burst spilling fluid over ward floor...never cleaned till the day I left.
Anyone who complained treated as a pariah, one gentleman complained daily about general lack of cleanliness, nurses mounted a hate campaign informing all new admissions that he was "a troublemaker"

This was no "fantasy", when I became upset about the risk to older patients, some with amputations, the staff nurse took me aside and said "dont worry there are two wards full of it, it's been like that for months ,you probably caught it from one of the "old team".

It was covered up just as the reasons for increased hiv infection are covered up by the agencies....."stigma and discrimination"...Double bollox, its about the extremely promiscuous behaviour which is associated with male to male sexual intercourse and the methods used.
No one wanted to question the failings of the hospital administrators and now no one wants to question the "equality" agenda

"Make sex illegal", what a stupid remark, I suppose it was another of your little "in" jokes, but when sexually transmitted diseases reach epidemic proportions in one tiny sector of the community, questions require to be asked and solutions sought.

Contact tracing and compulsory testing for MSM seems a sensible start to finding a solution, or would you rather look the other way and pretend that all is well in LaLa Land?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 09:03 AM

Yeah, reasonable quiet hatred beats shouty decency eh?

There is no argument to win. There is no case for bigotry. There is no case for second class citizens. The UK is a democracy, so every adult is a shareholder, every adult is equal. Only transgressing the law or sectioning under The mental Health Act is an exception.

So. Debate politics? Sure. Debate healthcare? Sure. Debate denial of stakeholder? Sorry, I cannot do that. I value living in a democracy, so such debate is a non starter.

Shouting down does work by the way Jack. When all else fails, when weak minded politicians see votes in fear and bigotry, shouting is the only tool left.




What public health as to do with you getting an MRSA bactaraemia is beyond me. I don't know about the Scottish situation, but having spent three years recently in infection control nationally in England, albeit specialising on board to ward governance and accountability, I do know that prior to 2006, it wasn't being picked up sufficiently, and the whole industry was blase over precautions. Since 2007/8, rates of bactaraemia have fallen to the pojnt where, for example, the hospital trust where my office situated, with just over a million coming through the door each year, has none this year to date. The trajectory for the year is 8. Compare that to 2005, where half a dozen a month were common place.

What is heartening is that isolation side rooms are becoming less necessary, allowing them to be prioritised for Clostridium Difficile and other aerosol conditions. Good barrier nursing, hand hygiene, reductions in surgical site infections through introduction of laminar flow in theatre and many other safeguards becoming business as usual have led to sharp reductions.

Yes, figures didn't used to reflect reality and yes, sadly, MRSA wasn't factored into primary or secondary morbidity figures, but whole wards infected for months and a cover up?

Bollocks.

MRSA per se isn't an issue. A third of the population carries it. Getting into the blood stream (bactaraemia) makes a poorly person very very poorly. Whole wards, and months are fantasy. The coroner would have picked a cluster up within a couple of weeks. It is that deadly for otherwise compromised sick elderly people. Those of us far more fit can have unfortunate side effects, and apart from addling your brain, you seem to have come out of it OK. Mind you, you shouldn't have had to in the first place. Bactaraemia is preventable, luckily The NHS now realises that and HCAI control in general has been a success story over the last few years. It had to improve, the situation was embarrassingly shocking.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 07:13 AM

"You could wear your Aryan credentials with pride. For a while... "

I think you already mentioned "Godwins Law" somewhere above Ian. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 06:44 AM

Musket,

When has shouting someone down ever worked?

At Ake is winning this argument just by not shouting back. He appears to be the grownup, the reasonable person because reasonable people don't try to win an argument by cursing.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 06:13 AM

"Root cause epidemiology in public health"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 05:06 AM

Who wants to make sex illegal?

When I was in hospital some years ago I picked up an HAI (mrsa)
I was put into isolation, staff, were gowned, restricted visits etc.
I did not look on this as "inequality", I was worried that the infection might be spread to older patients.

It transpired later that several wards had been infected for months and the whole affair had been hushed up.

So much for "rooting out epidemiology in public health."

Akenaton(still breathing) :0)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 04:54 AM

Yeah, planning everybody's agenda..

ZZZZZZ

Bloody hell Goofus. When I told you to play with the toys, I was being sarcastic. Seems I was closer to the mark than I thought...

Akenaton.

No wheezes, no social engineering, just attempts at root cause epidemiology in public health. Making sex illegal has the same impact as making hate comments illegal. It doesn't influence those who it is targeted at, so no solution. In the meantime, healthcare has to deal with the effects of stigma, the effects of ignorance, the effects of hard to reach groups, the effects of attempts to divide society, the effects of you and those who are suspicious of difference, sceptical of inclusiveness and ready to use terms of scorn such as "liberal" as the root of all evil.

Just think, 80 years ago, people like you had elements of society to blame throughout Europe. You'd have been in your bloody element. You could wear your Aryan credentials with pride. For a while...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 04:40 AM

Hi Sanity...Video hit the mark, spot on.

Ian is right that not many here disagree with him...its just that most have the sense not to try to support the unsupportable out in the open.

Unfortunately its going to take much more infection and ruined lives before he is prepared to accept the inevitable?

Keep well.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 04:22 AM

Musket..a typical wannabe liberal...planning everybody's agenda, whether they like it or not..the video must have hit too close to home!

Hi Ake!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 03:55 AM

Trying to eradicate an epidemic in a section of society is not "stigmatisation" Ian.

I repeat, there is little discrimination or stigma towards homosexuals today compared with twenty years ago, yet infection rates are rocketing....up 21% in one year in London....from an already very high percentage.
This IS an epidemic and homosexuals are not listening to the half hearted "education and advice" handed out by the agencies.

The latest wheez thought up to accomodate the "equality agenda" was to compulsorily test all residents in given areas, but targetting areas where "at risk" groups may be situated.

There is only one REAL "at risk" group....male homosexuals, even amongst hetero IDU's, rates of hiv infection are falling.

While health professionals continue to bury their heads in the sand and attempt to find spurious reasons for the rising epidemic, there is no hope of beating it.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 03:05 AM

Goofus. I've put some toys in the corner. Kindly go and play with them. I wouldn't wish you to hear grown ups swearing.

Jack. You will be aware that delivery of health care in any responsible society is non judgemental and non discriminatory. I would love not to get involved in health care debate on these threads being too close to delivery of it, but being non clinical, I doubt my contribution can be seen as representative. After all, the key objective I work to is controlling logistics in improvement. LEAN, six sigma etc. As a retired CEO in manufacturing, coupled with chairing NHS bodies, that is my small contribution. Hence I do see the issues as an outsider. I do get frustrated reading bilge water, and Akenaton is only a miniscule part of it. Media and politics raise similar issues.

I only know that removing stigma for sections of society is the first step to inclusive health and social care.

If shouting down bigotry helps inform that debate, pass me my megaphone.

To permit is to promote. I don't see many disagreeing with the broad thrust of my stance yet neither do I see Akenaton tackled, with a few honourable exceptions. He takes respectability as tacit agreement you know...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 12:26 AM

Sounds likwMudcat!!! Forum!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 09:49 PM

Telling someone to "Fuck off!" doesn't strengthen your argument. It doesn't make you seem smarter. It does not elevate the conversation. It makes the speaker look weak, lazy stupid lazy and crude. If that is how you want to be perceived that is your choice.

Like akenaton, I am concerned about HIV infection. But I don't think it has anything more to do with gay marriage than with straight marriage.


akenaton's opinions will hve no effect on your work. Abusing him helps no one. You surly do not come across as a responsible health professional when you talk the way you do here.

Wishing him dead is worse than telling him to F-off. In fact the way you phrased it he would just end up in someone's emergency room/

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 05:22 PM

Ian ....I'm sorry to have to tell you that you are such a failure in your chosen profession.

It is the very "discretion" that you are so proud off that ensures homosexuals continue to develop this disease.

The "carrot" has not worked, there is much less stigma and discrimination today than there was twenty years ago...and much more disease.
People must be made to understand that these infection rates cannot be allowed to continue and increase.
Time has come for the "stick".....which does not mean criminalisation...or execution....but compulsory contact tracing and testing of male homosexuals.
This of course would be contrary to your agenda of "equality", and I'm sure you would be against such a course of action.....It could be argued that your attitude contributes to the spread of this disease and condemns many young men to a life sentence of ill health, but I don't wish for you to stop breathing because of it.......you are just wrong, not particularly evil.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket getting bored now
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 04:02 PM

There is a difference between being civil and playing a straight bat.

Judges have to play a straight bat.

The rest of us are free to leave people in no doubt how odious and damaging their views are to society at large.

This is about real lives of real people. I could weep at times in my work these days, and knowing scum is out there wanting to make healthcare harder to achieve its goals. .. I am fed up of people not turning up for medicine review of antiretrovirals due to the stigma attached to seeing that particular consultant physician on that day and thinking the whole city knows what that day is. . Or GU medical clinics in general having to find new ways of running their service discreetly.

If the likes of Akenaton didn't bother breathing, the issue he loves to highlight would be less problematical to work on.



Do you think I was being reasonable and being nice? I certainly do. I think I am being rather restrained, don't you?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 03:50 PM

"Please just fuck off. "   - Musket


I thought you and I had a deal to behave politely.

Are you calling it off? You made your point before the verbal abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 11:40 AM

Good job we have Gay marriage then to help promote monogamy.

You aren't going to stop people fucking each other, you aren't going to stop people making love. Legislation doesn't work any more than legislation over hate crime stopping you in your tracks.

HIV infection in London has increased, and the trend, whilst less stark is bad for HIV in male / male and female / male in some other urban areas. Other STDs are a heterosexual issue too.

However, declaring that people cannot have sex any more isn't the answer. Driving sex underground isn't the answer. Promoting stable relationships is the tool put forward in the British Medical Journal article over the same report raised in The Lancet. Promoting safe sex is the other tool.

Driving lifestyle underground is the worst thing you can do. Some police forces have, since having political commissioners ruling policy, decided not to work with substance misuse clinics and services, saying drug misuse is a crime and any information will lead to prosecutions. HIV has risen over the first quarter in such areas. (Source - Health Service Journal.)

I know you want all gay people to be HIV positive so you can hate them more, but when irresponsible toads such as you have finished targeting sections of the community, things need to be done. Safe sex and promoting monogamy are the tools. Criminalising or stigmatising people will make your dreams come true.

Please just fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 11:19 AM

As a final word here, the Lancet has just delivered a report which concludes that Hiv infection among male homosexuals in London, has risen by 21% between 2011 and 2012.

Time is running out. Compulsory testing and contact tracing is becoming a matter of urgency.
Male/male sexual intercourse is now very obviously a dangerous and unhealthy practice and legislation to normaliseit is clearly wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 02:53 PM

Ah! Well, that may explain why my ancestors migrated west across the great waters to Canada...where we also have a long winter, but probably not nearly as wet a winter.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket being patriotic
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 02:35 PM

Yeah. Both days. ..

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 12:31 PM

I would think it's really quite nice there in the summer.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 12:29 PM

I could add a character I suppose. Snag is, plenty more where he came from. And not many of them in Och Aye The'Noo land either. We have far too many of the buggers here in civilisation too. ..

Scotland gave us The Malt Shovel pub in Edinburgh and The Winking Owl in Aviemore. It gave us Adam Smith and it gave us Kitchin restaurant in Leith. Let's not forget Scotch pies and deep fried Mars bars, , not to mention cirrhosis of the liver and associated public health uber statistics.

Oh, and my responsible adult is a product of the medical school in Edinburgh. I enjoy going up for Royal College dinners if nothing else. In fact, keep it to yourself but I used to run the Scotland office for a company back in the late'80s, in Airdrie. Also, we love to holiday there most years. (Not &/$!! Airdrie but the fluffy Scotland. )

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 11:11 AM

The thought of a woman being foolish enough to play golf gives me the shivers... ;-) I think most women are above that sort of thing. When I think of golf, I think of Elmer Fudd...wearing a silly hat and ridiculous looking pantaloons and golf shoes. Or else, I think of rich young lawyers and business types who go there to show off their snazzy sports cars in the parking lot, hang out at the bar, and pick up rich young women for tawdry and meaningless affaires.

The Scots have inflicted several shocking things on the world...

Haggis!

The highland kilt!

The sporan!

The bagpipes!!!

But worst of all...............GOLF!!!! (shudder)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket happy as Larry
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 05:52 AM

Aye, bad legislation. Just to keep egomaniacs like Peter Tatchell happy eh?

Same as those other egomaniacs who fought for equality. The suffragettes, William Wilberforce, Lloyd George.....

It's up to women, blacks and pensioners to behave more responsibly now they have rights.... You tell 'em!












Crawl away and lick your wounds, there's a good chap. I notice Alex Salmond won't visit the open, despite liking golf. He may be a fool but he accepts we are all equal fools, even women who play golf.....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 05:41 AM

There was never any doubt that the legislation would be passed due in large part to political expediency.
As I have said many times we are now ruled by an unthinking raucus media and as Hawk has said, simple bullying by egomaniacs with a taste for mob power.

However, the facts remain, the legislation is bad, like many other pieces of legislation brough forward over the last decade and a large number of people in the UK are of this opinion.


We shall see if the UK legislation can influence male homosexuals to be behave more responsibly and bring down the infection rates for sexually transmitted disease, which are at epidemic proportions, but Ah hae ma doots!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket being patriotic
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 03:09 AM

The side line to this this thread can now be put to an end.

The Queen signed the gay marriage bill yesterday giving it Royal ascent, signing it into law.

Discussion of the merits or otherwise of gay marriage now have the legal as well as moral status of debating the pros and cons of mixed race or disabled marriage.

Not being gay myself, I can't begin to comprehend the joy and relief but empathy is a nice tool to have in the old armoury.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 05:52 PM

I've got no problem with equality.

I've always hoped for a Utopian Nirvana, but I don't expect to find it here in mortal life. The best places I've ever been, though, were one or two spiritual communities...while I've also visited a couple that didn't appeal to me much at all...and a couple that were nice enough in a general sort of way. Meditation retreat centres are usually pretty neat places with some very high caliber people to talk to (when not meditating).

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans philosophy
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 05:39 PM

Yeah but this isn't about creating a utopian nirvana or any other idealism, its about treating people equally under law.

It ain't a big ask.

And if it is, the question is better aimed at those preventing it.

And ask why?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:35 PM

History has shown that business trumps everything else, Musket. If there's a lot of money to be made, inconvenient things like dictators, death-squads, and environmental destruction can always be disregarded...or perhaps tut-tutted over a bit while nothing is really done about it.

If, on the other hand, a dictator stands in the way of Big corporate business interests!!!....well, then, he's a threat to our very way of life and MUST be brought down for (cough! cough!) "humanitarian" reasons...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:23 PM

I note that wannabee pharoah cannot be bothered to tell the truth about the incidence of homosexuality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 02:30 PM

Yes, there has been a movement internationally to promote LGTB issues. Positive discrimination had always been an issue for any attempt at mere equality of opportunity. That said, if we have reached that stage, gay marriage should go through without debate as it reflects other rights.

But it doesn't. Not just because of old people who were taught it was wrong, not just because of rent a mob, not just because of desperate newspaper editors wanting to please shareholders by inventing scandal.   No. Because of mainstream politicians seeing the homophobic vote as being bigger than the pink vote. Because of religions refusing to see 21st century society mirrored in the medieval superstition that informs their words.

So perhaps in a way, the gay agenda isn't quite ready to back down just yet. ... As much as I find assertive agendas objectionable, I don't think they have equality just yet. We all fawn middle eastern states for business, Russia, etc etc.   Yet we are fairly slow at leading by example.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:42 PM

Sounds like you're having a rough day, Musket. My condolences.

I don't know that we disagree on gay marriage...I have no problem with it in a legal sense. My only problem with the present political climate is that the media and politicians and various commentators are giving the gay rights issue a disproportionate amount of attention, because they know it pushes various people's buttons...and because they are afraid not to.

It has reached the point where if a civic official does not bother to participate in a city's Gay Pride Day celebrations...as in the City of Toronto, for example...he or she is hounded by various advocates and people in the media and accused of being "homophobic".

That creates a climate of fear. That climate of fear results in a lot of false posturing....various politicians and media and other people faithfully attending a Gay Pride parade even though they have no real desire to be there and no actual interest in the subject at all...but just because they're deathly afraid not to be seen there.

And that, frankly, is pathetic. It is that climate of fear that I object to. It's gone way out of proportion, just as the climate of fear that gays themselves were oppressed by in previous social eras was way out of proportion. I don't agree with people being intimidated into pretending they are something they are not...whether they're gay or straight or whatever else they are.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans earwax
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 11:59 AM

Remember what this thread was about till it was hijacked?

Well... A date for diaries. I am having my ears vacuumed on Friday morning at 11.20 BST.

In the meantime, I am going to give my local folk club a miss tonight. My throat is still recovering from the bug that is doing the rounds hereabouts. Hurts to drink, hurts to sing and my ears can't hear sod all. I'd be as much use as a one legged bloke at an arse kicking contest.

As usual.

Never mind. Mustn't grumble.

No bloody kitchen either till the builders finish. Nowt on t'box either. Dog! You're gooing round 'turbary again, like it or lump it. Once it's cooled down a bit anyroad.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket between courses
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:49 AM

No real importance.   So shut up.
No real importance.   Unless you are gay.
No real importance.   See above.

Gay families may have a different view to you. Lots around with adopted or first marriage children. Lesbian couples with AI children. Family units.

On this, littlehawk and I differ on opinion. A view that restricts the rights of others for no reason other than their colour, race, sexual preference or disability is quite rightly frowned upon in modern society. The last UK government drafted an equality bill that the present government enacted which clarified this and led the way to ironing out irregularities such as gay marriage. They made a pigs ear of it, allowing Church of England to not respect equality, but that's okay as it strengthens the case for disestablishment.

You can talk about freedom of opinion all you like but as Jack the Sailor and Akenaton have been finding out, insults aren't nice. Just in case you wonder why I do it..

Just do me a favour and re read his views, plainly stated above. Then see why he is fawning you both. He craves respect. He certainly doesn't earn it. I am deeply suspect of laws against inciting hatred as we have over here, but reading the views of Akenaton, I begin to see the need.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 03:25 AM

Hawk, Jack, Sanity....I'm humbled by your words.

I know we disagree over several issues, but at least we share understanding. I wish there were more like you, folks who understand that our little group here is not meant as a battleground, but a place for debate, to examine other ideas and opinions.
You are very GOOD people and should be an inspiration to us all.


As Hawk has said the Gay marriage issue is of no real importance, all social issues move back and forth over the years depending on fashion or politics, but I have tried to illustrate that the methods employed by some to railroad through the legislation, are a real danger to freedom, and in the end real justice.

I have tried to point out not that homosexuals are bad people, but that there is a case for progressing with caution regarding sex between males and the fact that many people still see marriage as between man and woman with a view to the construction of a family structure and so strengthening society as a whole.

It has been suggested that I think that a man and woman who do not wish to have children either through choice or for reasons of age or infirmity, are not really married....what bunkum!....al that matters to keep the template of marriage, is that both partners be of different sexes.
So it has been for centuries, and if we are not to see society slide into further decay, so it should stay.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 10:07 PM

Good for you, Jack!! At least YOU can tell the difference!!
Another point of view, which is more accurate, is NOT hatred or bigotry!!
See if you can teach that to some 'so-called liberals' on here!!!
They could move from 'stupid dumbfucks' to 'tolerable'!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 04:56 PM

If Akenaton were calling gay people derogatory names, you could justify calling him a bigot. As it is he is just someone with a different take on an issue than you. But this type of stereotyping and slurring is more the norm than the exception for you. You and Steve shaw have at one time or another held me responsible for every major crime ever committed by religion that I can think of.

The definition of "bigot" I read involves hatred. It is apparent to all who between you and Akenaton spills more bile on these pages.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 04:46 PM

Akenaton: ""..hatches, matches and despatches.."

What a great line!!...haven't heard it before in that context!!!!

Grinning,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 04:45 PM

This is nothing but another righteousness contest...someone trying to prove he is far more righteous than the other person is...when the real truth of the matter is that everyone here is quite concerned about justice, fairness, equality, and other such basic issues upon which righteousness hangs. We all want justice to be done. That's a fact. We just don't necessarily agree on how to go about it when it comes to certain situations.

No one here is going to convince the other guy that he is less righteous than they are. It reminds me of the Big Bad Wolf trying to huff and puff and blow down the Practical Pig's brick walls....a vain endeavour if ever there was one.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket getting bored now
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 03:59 PM

You know fuck all.

If it were one person, their rights and dignity are to be respected.

Civil unions were a way to show that they were different. A way to allow differentiation. Marriage has passed through parliament and will be enacted. In all the UK.

Not often I praise tory politicians but Cameron and Osborne are for once on the side of the angels.

With Clegg

With Miliband

With Salmond

With dignity.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 02:14 PM

BTW.....The country you live in is chock full of second class citizens. I suppose you dont know much about the underclass...how about some concern about the debris of this system...do you know where they live? have you been in their houses? do you understand anything about the real suffering going on right under your nose.

Or are you too concerned about the marriage rights of a miniscule proportion of homosexuals ....who are a miniscule proportion of the population,.....who want it re-defined in their image.
As you know these legal rights are already available under Civil Union

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Ian Mather
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 02:04 PM

If you ever think of such a valid reason, don't forget to share it.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 01:59 PM

Dont buy anything...I will provide you with a sandwich board!

You live in and support a system in which "equality" is a complete myth, in fact inequality in everything of importance is encouraged, they call it "competition"

I am against "second class citizenship", but there a several valid aguments against legislation to promote homosexual "marriage", just as there would be against legislation to promote group "marriage", the "marriage of close relatives, or any other minority sexual behaviour that you can think of.
Opposition to such legislation cannot be caled "bigotry" as long as there is a valid and resonable argument behind the opposition.

Simply having faith is not enough where legislation is concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Clapton
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 01:27 PM

Yes but littlehawk. When we have finished with clever word play, we are still left with someone professing a view that there should be second class citizens.

To compound it, there is no shame or doubt in his mind. He feels that supporting the concept of equality is a faith.

So... I appear to have a faith and I appear to be a bigot. Might just buy a dog collar and a copy of the Bible at this rate. Complete the illusion.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 01:15 PM

Hmmm. Interesting response there, Musket. I'm going to have to think about that some.

There have been quite a few jokes made along that general line, such as...

"The intolerant must NOT be tolerated!" (to paraphrase what you said)

"Kill the murderers!"

"Invade the aggressors!"

I remember seeing on a wall one time, someone had written:

"CASTRATE RAPISTS!!!"

And someone else had written below that:

"RAPE CASTRATORS!!!"

When angry mobs gathered in Rome to drive out (and often kill) the early Christians, they would scream, "Out with the atheists!" (they saw Christians as godless atheists, because the Christians didn't honor the various Roman gods and goddesses, as was normal practice for Romans at that time.)

I find that deliciously ironical. It says a lot about people's hysterical tendency to pronounce summary (and not very well-informed) judgement on others.

****

And then there's the old proverb, "fools seldom differ", but it couldn't BE more wrong! ;-D Fools constantly differ. A trip to any seedy bar will prove this in no uncertain terms before the night is over.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 12:58 PM

You just dont have an argument Ian.

You have a faith, but reasonable people who have a faith(like Jack), do not go around calling all who do not share that faith bigots.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket shaking his head
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 12:41 PM

You see, that is where you trip up.

Bigotry is a classic case of it takes one to know one. Of course I am full square 100% intolerant of his homophobic stance. I refuse to give it credence as a viewpoint and I will not rest where it is promoted. By definition, that does make me a bigot too...

Perhaps there should be other words, but I have a saying I used to use in quality control and these days use it where healthcare professionals turn a blind eye to bad practice.

To permit is to promote.

I am reminded of it when I read posts saying the worm has a legitimate viewpoint. Oh yeah? Have you thought that there are gay people on Mudcat? You think I insult you Jerk? Compared to reading his diatribe, you have never yet been insulted on this or any other thread by anyone.

The late Jake Thackray, as well as a fine songwriter, made my ears prick up with his simple phrase, "I don't, shan't and refuse to tolerate intolerance."

Floats my boat anyway. But then, I don't have the benefit of faith to help me choose who to look upon as second class citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 10:16 AM

Excellent point, Jack. I've long been advising anyone here who is willing to listen that calling someone a "bigot", a "racist", a "sexist", a "Nazi", a "nigger", a "homophobe" or some other common contemporary Anti-Christ label like that serves no useful purpose in a discussion, it only makes the other person angry and retaliatory, and it leads to further abusive postings on both sides...as the label itself IS a hate/fear/shock & awe/intimidation tactic and has brought any chance of having a productive conversation to a crashing END.

I've advised Chongo of that also...but he doesn't listen. ;-D Chimps, like some people, are very hard to reach when they've got their minds absolutely set on having a fight about something.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 09:56 AM

Well, I think if you were to actually READ the definition of bigot you might stop using that label as a cudgel and discuss the topic.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 07:33 AM

Oy Jerk. The worm said that practicing homosexuals aren't interested in monogamy. You said he isn't bigoted.

Is this based on your ignorance or your interpretation of your delusion?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 06:25 AM

Why on earth would any self respecting chimp want to marry a human?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket being patriotic
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 05:36 AM

Oh yeah? What about Wayne Rooney's missus? She managed it.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 03:29 AM

All this friggin' BLA-BLA and not one...not ONE person!...has stepped forward to speak in favor of primate-human marriage rights! Not ONE!!! And this while Chimps, Gorillas, Baboons, Orangutans, Bonobos, Monkeys of all types, and their beloved human partners are bein' denied full and equal marriage rights in every single country in the WORLD by prejudiced HUMANS!

Yer nothin' but a bunch of hate-filled specist dupes. No free banana for any of YOU when I get elected!

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 01:24 AM

Must be hard for you siding with Akenaton on such matters. Reading the pure unadulterated hate he expresses, do you keep a straight face when saying he is being objective and I'm not?

Now we all have our personal marriage situations and history laid bare, the situation hasn't altered one jot. Akenaton would prevent people getting married on the basis theyccan't procreate. If they are heterosexual he doesn't mind but if they are gay, the marriage possibly won't run the course so why bother permitting it?

Perhaps someone other than I should quote the definition of bigot? I don't seem to be getting through.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:49 PM

I think that if a gay couple commits to one another they out to have the same rights and responsibilities as any other.


I got married for the first time at 44, my wife was 47 and with no prospect of kids our marriage it was not a license to go forth and multiply. I have no problem with gays having the privileges of marriage, if they are willing to live by the oath. People in this country talk about "defense of marriage" their efforts would be much better spent fighting unplanned single motherhood and the 50% divorce rate. That is where marriage needs defending.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:19 PM

Perhaps I should have explained Ian.
When we decided to get married, my fiance wanted a church wedding, although my fiance was a church member, I being an Atheist was not.
The minister told us that as I was not a member of the Church of Scotland he would refuse to marry us in church.
I was a little pissed off, but we were married in an hotel by a minister friend of my wife's.
On reflexion I now feel that he was correct, if folks want to use the church for "hatches, matches and despatches" they should respect the traditions of the institution.

Perhaps if unbelievers had the media power of homosexuals we could have been married in church...:0)

Tres fin.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:54 PM

:0)
"Compared to that twisting turning overcrowded boulder strewn hairpin turn infested goat path that is Musket's mind. Akenaton's logic is a straight and level 85 mph Texas toll road."

What a great line Jack, wish I had wrote-it.
I'm printing it out and framing it!!    :0)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:29 PM

If disagreeing over the facts of an argument means that one is bigoted than I** M***** is easily the most bigoted entity on this forum. I think that Akenaton is on the wrong side of the gay marriage debate. But that does not mean he is bigoted. As he correctly points out I**, tends to grossly exaggerate. But not just stats in an argument. He also puffs up his opponents positions, his own credentials and that delusion of discernment he think of as his sense of humour.

Compared to that twisting turning overcrowded boulder strewn hairpin turn infested goat path that is Musket's mind. Akenaton's logic is a straight and level 85 mph Texas toll road.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:21 PM

I'm married. Whilst my previous marriage bore two fine lads, we didn't marry the other year to have children. All the negative points regarding gay marriage that the disgusting worm speaks of would apply to me and would apply to hundreds of thousands of married couples in The UK.

As I said, nobody stopped you getting married. No law prevented it. If individuals didn't want you to get married, that's nothing to do with this debate. I don't understand why you said it.

I don't understand how people can have such odious views and not keep them in their head where people won't be so embarrassed being around them.

Is UK education so bad that we can still hear such things? Or is it a reflection on our health care. ..

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Ian Mather
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:04 PM

I couldn't have put it better myself.

I hope fin means what it should mean. Difficult to have fun in threads till you slink off.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 12:50 PM

Final word....Male homosexuals appear to have become more, not less promiscuous since "civil union" was brought forward....why should it be different in the case of "gay marriage"

It is quite clear that practicing homosexuals are not intersted in monogamy, promiscuity seems to be an integral part of male same sex behaviour.
Gay Marriage is a cause celebre of the "liberal left", linked wrongly to equality and human rights.....it is an activist issue.....fin

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 12:41 PM

The Scottish Independence referendum was not "given", it was demanded and enabled by the Scottish electorate voting overwhelmingly for the Scottish National Party.

The 10% you quote is a deliberate lie, the official rate of homosexuals in the population is just over 2%. If the rates dont matter, why lie about them?
Equality is not a dirty word, especially in law....but conventional marriage and homosexual "marriage" are not and will never be equal.
Homosexuals couples are of the same sex, so, incapable of conceiving or bearing their natural children, thus they are also prevented from building an extended natural family structure....both cornerstones of traditional marriage.
The only way is to attempt to re-define the word "marriage" to accomodate a tiny fraction of the 2% of the population who actually wish to use it, to the detriment and concern of hundreds of thousands who are already married or who wish to be conventionally married in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 12:21 PM

"Nobody wanted to prevent you from getting married"

Oh YES they did!.....You know fuck all about me, do you?

You assume too much....I would never presume to pry or guess about your private life.....go roll with the pigs.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket having nicked iPad from Ian
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 11:08 AM

Ok Jerk!

If you want to write comedy, get a script writer. Best get a British one for that matter, one who understands irony.

THWWWWWTTTHHHHWWWWWRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know how to do lol now, though I doubt I shall in future, but I appear to be having problems expressing the throwing of a raspberry in his general direction. If anyone would show me, I'd be obliged as ever.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Ian Mather and a serious point
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 11:02 AM

10%?

If it were two people out of a population of 70,000,000 the case would be the same.

Government entertainment media as you call it is giving Scotland the independence vote too. Is that a sideshow distraction?

The benefits of a gay marriage are fuck all to do with you or I for that matter. Except of course the NHS cost benefits of less promiscuous lifestyle through the monogamy promoting aspects of marriage.

Nobody wanted to prevent you from getting married. Nobody asked if society would benefit from your marriage.

If equality is a dirty word, I happily roll with the pigs.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 09:53 AM

In really am sick of Ian and Richard, so will not be contributing further to this thread, but as I am a stickler for figures, I could not let Ian's 10% go.

This is typical of Ian, he knows perfectly well what the official percentage of homosexuals in the population is, but just cannot help himself, he must exaggerate everything on his side of the equation, he is so unsure of his stance, that he takes every opportunity to slip in a little black lie to help his cause.

All the rhetoric is a desperate attempt to conceal the poverty of his argument......when are we going to see some facts about the benefits of homosexual marriage, or the reasons for the atrocious homosexual health figures.

Oh I remember!!! Equality, equality, equality. Do you really think there is social equality or equality under the law in this society?

Instead of jailing the leaders of a financial system which is about to impoverish most of our society, cause death and starvation to the poor and sick, govt by the entertainment media gives us???

"Gay Marriage"......god save the Queen!

Grow up the pair of you.....you aren't stupid, it must be a mental block!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 09:26 AM

Heh! And the entertainment rolls on...

Perfection is becoming a more elusive goal with each passing day.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:41 AM

Talking about your multiple personalities in the third person again???

Uh! Oh!!

LOL

You could have made things easier on your self. You could have behaved like a nice normal inmate. But no! You had to act up!! What is it going to be eh? Thorozine? Lithium? Straight jacket? Rubber room? Lobotomy?

So many choices, so little time. Time to call in Nurse Ratchet on a consult.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:20 AM

Wannabee Pharoah allegedly typed a reasoned post? Musht be shome mishtake shurely.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sanctimonious as a sailor
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:03 AM

Carry on? Be more appropriate if you said "lead on McDuff. "

Diplomacy. . Let's see. No. The pimple on my arse isn't useful for that. I have a Blue Peter badge if that helps. Didn't get it from the telly though, I swapped it for some airfix models.

Frankly, Musket doesn't do diplomacy. Ian does when he is being serious but have you noticed that silly bugger time is usually invoked AFTER reason has nipped out for a fag?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 03:54 AM

Ah, the diplomacy of the debonair I** M*****. Status quo it is then! Carry on!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans imperfection
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 01:23 AM

You forgot to mention the pimple on my arse.

In most threads it is about as relevant as the other attributes you wish to mock.

I take it you have nothing material to add to any debate then? Name calling and trying to belittle seems to be your safety valve once your general ignorance is found out.

I don't want you to stop calling me anything. Be nice if you stopped calling per se.



Hi littlehawk. Yeah, making light of a serious situation. Giraffes at one end of the scale, many many more at the other. Must be those eye lashes. ......

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 08:06 PM

"Musket sanctimonious as a sailor "

Well well well, Finally blow the name gasket have you?

I've told you I don't care if you use my name. I would have told you my name if you had asked and said "please."


I've told you that I use your name

A. because that horse is already out of the barn. I discovered that Musket and Ian Mather were one from reading your conversations with others. Anyone worth their salt who wants to know that, knows that.

B. You never once asked me not to use your names, though you TOLD me a couple of times.

C. You said you were using "Musket" so that you could mock and take the piss without consequence. I use Jack the Sailor because that's how people know me here.

D. The way you put it, you appeared to be saying that you had lied to the reporter and that using "musket" is a continuation. So you were ordering me to aid and abet your lie.

E. You are constantly trying to anger me, mock me and insult me. Calling you Ian Mather when you do that really seems to anger you.

If you want us to stop calling you Ian, Mather, Ian Mather, Mather blather or whatever, (it is not just me, you know,) why don't you make a case for it rather than trying to bully us into stopping? Surely a publish author, Phd Physicist, world traveling health administrator, with the shining, glorious resume you have claimed to have over these months can write a short note and make your case that we should not address you as the person we know you to be.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 06:22 PM

"bowl from the pavilion end"?

Not quite sure what you mean, but maybe I get it...I did read once that it's quite common for male giraffes to engage in homosexual behaviour (moreso than most other species do)...that is, they will form close relationships between males and mount each other. Why this occurs a lot with giraffes, I have no idea.

I don't think it's common for any species but man to engage in actual anal intercourse, though.

I may be wrong.

I do know one thing: the anus was not designed by Nature to serve such a purpose, and in human beings a large amount of such intercourse eventually causes damage to the body. This is probably why TCM (traditional Chinese medicine) has a health advisory against too much "dragon yang" (anal intercourse between males), but no such health advisory against "rubbing mirrors" (various forms of sexual intercourse between 2 females...and no such health advisory against "blowing the trumpet" (fellatio). This is what comes from Taoism...they have the health advisory about anal intercourse (in large amounts)...they have no moral advisory against it, because they don't consider it a matter of morality, only of health...and that's how they look at sex generally, as a health-related matter, not a moral code-related matter.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 05:22 PM

Our PM has his own simian ministers thank you very much. ....

Anyway, can you ask him if chimps ever bowl from the pavilion end? Most creatures do,on account of it being natural. (As what I say is analysed by some, best to play to the gallery. )

Back to the thread. I seem to have lurgy and taking decongestant tablets. That cotton wool may be buggering me up. No matter, the cricket today was far more perfect than I could ever be.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 02:17 PM

You are talking about the 10%, I presume, who would vote for Chongo Chimp to replace your present PM if they had the option to? I'd have thought it would be considerably more than that!

(Cackling evilly and scutting off to the bleachers...)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 09:51 AM

Did you have to reread those words or are they sinking in yet?

Perhaps one day you may get to feel the same as 10% of adults in The UK when they read people discussing them and how many concessions normal people feel they might just throw them.

Not nice is it?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 06:56 AM

I had typed a reasoned response to Ian's last post,(13 Jul - 12:38 PM) , then I re-read what he had written...."inferior gays", "bigoted", "disgusting worm", "pathetic", "Jerk", "twisted", "hate filled", "scorns equality", all in one short post.....and i though to myself, fuck it,

Enough Ian Already!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sanctimonious as a sailor
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 03:15 AM

Yes and yes. Hence warning those of us comfortable enough with our true self that Mudcat comments go far beyond this website.

The reporter from HSJ was tidying up an article I wrote with right of reply by the advisor. The conversations were a few weeks apart and one got mentioned on Mudcat.

Having cleared that up. Who the fuck are you? If you insist on ensuring people know who Musket is, start posting views that you are not ashamed of. Or in other words, if you dare'nt reveal who Jack the Sailor is, don't make a point of replying to Musket with Dear Ian.

Oh, and don't just say many know who you are. I do for that matter. If you want to remain obscure, (not a bad idea given the stupidity of some of your less vitriolic outbursts and nastiness of the rest) don't make a point of trying name and shame as a tool. The sleazy end of newspapers do it far better than you do, and with more integrity.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Jul 13 - 02:12 AM

" Hence it took me back a little when an advisor at Dept of Health seemed to know about my musical and other social views. I changed to Musket then."

"You told me a reporter asked if you were the same Ian Mather as the one on the Mudcat."

Do you ever remember anything you say here?

Do you ever tell the truth?

Its funny that I spent the first half or the Atheist religion thread making the case that you and Shaw and Dawkins were jerks. You and others accused me of name calling. Now you prove that you are a jerk every time you call me that.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket getting his tuppence worth
Date: 13 Jul 13 - 12:38 PM

Opposing gay marriage isn't hate.

Ok

Is this because they are inferior to non gays? Is it that we operate a caste system?

I have no issue with my name. After all, "Musket" posts that I shall or shall not be able to get to certain clubs and concerts. I do recall saying that people should be careful when posting in general on social media as everything can be attributed. I don't care to have my views on Sheffield United (6 fingered weirdos) being used to judge me. Hence it took me back a little when an advisor at Dept of Health seemed to know about my musical and other social views. I changed to Musket then. Not to hide Ian Mather but tohhelp retain a little privacy.

Notwithstanding the fact that you are a bigoted disgusting worm. After all, I can't be insulting a real person, can I? You and your pathetic mate Jerk bring my name to the fore whenever you wish to insult me.

The difference is, I am not so ashamed of my opinion that I hide behind a silly name. Is the person behind Akenaton as twisted and hate filled?

Don't begin to denigrate the views of Musket. Musket is happy to be Ian Mather. Are you happy to let everybody know who it is that scorns equality?   Who says marriage is wrong for sections of society?   I assume the person behind the worm votes. And that is very concerning. ....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jul 13 - 09:54 AM

I haven't tried deep fried Mars bars, Hawk... or snapped any goalposts I think Ians may be referring to the famous victory at Wembley(home of Endlish football), by the Scots boys, immediately after the Sassenachs had stolen the World Cup!

I have tossed the caber, thrown the hammer and putted the shot, tho.

Not all at the same time of course, I have my limitations....I'm not perfect after all!!   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jul 13 - 09:43 AM

Listen Mr Mather, if you don't want your real name used on an internet forum...don't broadcast it to all and sundry.

Try to remember that if you go around arrogantly insulting others, before long the "worms" will come out of their "compost heaps" and do something that you don't like.
You need to understand that there are some rules of decorum here and that opposing homosexual "marriage" legislation or professing ones religious beliefs, are not recognised as "hate speech"..... if that is even definable.
Just calm down and realise how lucky you are that anyone wishes to converse with such an arrogant and muddled individual.
All will be well, the sun will rise again, the seasons will turn, the tides will ebb and flow.....nature fixes everything in the end.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 13 Jul 13 - 08:51 AM

So... what is kind and cogent about dismissing comment based on the author not the content? What is kind and cogent about shouting my real name from the rooftops whilst telling porkies, twisting what I write? Whilst being too ashamed of your own stance to put your real name in the open.

You see, the snag is; I can call you a snivelling shit till I'm blue in the face but you seem incapable of recognising your own stupidity. Name calling isn't the answer for you. Pity may be more appropriate.

If Steve is reading, we may have to get someone else to proxy our token woman. Jerk isn't capable of recognising make believe.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jul 13 - 05:26 AM

AAAAHHHH your tired tactic of trying to turn my kind and cogent observations of you into cheap and tired insults clumsily aimed at me.


You know very well why your mental health professional has you taking lithium and other anti-psychotic drugs but she must be heartbroken that they are not effective and but the fact that yoou are so mentally addled that you cannot tell that she is a she. Your fellow inmates tell me that she looks like a young Dusty Springfield.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 05:10 PM

Aye, you thought Haggis was the national dish but battered deep fried chocolate bars beat it. Snapping goal posts goes back many years in an England v Scotland football match. Sorry, I suppose both observations, whilst baiting those of ginger origin, (at it again) Need explanation to our friends over the pond.



Also must learn to spell out in words of less than two syllables when addressing The Rt Rev Jerk. He thinks his outrageous insults to decent people amuse me. Then gets upset when I point out he may be deluded. Buggered if I know how to deal with him. He mentions lithium. Perhaps his brain is registering his need for his dosage to be upped.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 01:53 PM

He forgets two posts ago where he "invites" me to the conversation.

"Best read that in conjunction with Jerk's running commentary on my prose. "

Then acts as if that post had never occurred.....

"I know I love the finger pressure of my own typing, but is Jerk having a go at me a couple of posts above? We have been discussing South Yorkshire, Bob Dylan and my Dad's bike lately on this thread. No matter what the subject, he has to get a dig in. Then wonders why I laugh at him rather than with him. "

I don't wonder why you laugh at me. You are a crazy person. There is no logic behind what amuses you.

If you can't remember what was said by the last iteration of "musket" you can at least reread the last couple of posts you make on a thread.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 12:49 PM

"deep fried Mars bar"???? What???? Are you telling me that Scots have a predilection for that? And "snapping goal posts"??? Wha....?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans family tree
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 03:42 AM

It would appear it is Scottish in origin, although you would have to go back a number of generations in my case. I don't get the urge for deep fried Mars Bar or snapping goal posts, although I did eat haggis last night.

It seems to derive from mower, as in grass. A genealogy website said so. I haven't checked it as fact but happy to accept it in the meantime.

Your man Archie Bunker was based on a comedy TV character from London called Alf Garnett. Sadly, that Bernard Manning was the real thing. But if you are interested in accents and dialect, he was Manchester.



I know I love the finger pressure of my own typing, but is Jerk having a go at me a couple of posts above? We have been discussing South Yorkshire, Bob Dylan and my Dad's bike lately on this thread. No matter what the subject, he has to get a dig in. Then wonders why I laugh at him rather than with him.

What makes you think the psychiatrist is a she? Or that lithium would be described? The bible would be very handy. Living a delusion, it would induce a sense of synergy.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 13 - 12:52 AM

This is a serious question: Is "Mather" derived from a word for "Mother" or does it have some other derivation? Just wondering. I'm always curious about the origins of names and words.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket being patriotic
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 03:26 PM

Ok. Keep calm Musket.

Akenaton is Welsh and Bernard Manning was Yorkshire.   For the benefit of our cousins, that bloke (a blue comic) was from Manchester. If you studied the war of the roses, you can see how putting a Lancastrian on your link and talking about Yorksheer.......

For the benefit of accuracy, I come from North Derbyshire near the Yorkshire and Nottinghamshire borders. There are lots of Mathers in Lancashire to be fair, especially around Bolton, but that is easily explained. My Dad had a bike.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 03:24 PM

Its not your prose that it is the problem it is your delusions of omniscience. No matter what the topic, you claim to be an expert. You've done it seen it, got the Phd.

We all can be mighty in our minds. Tell us what mental health facility you are in. We can send you cards, pictures of the outside, whatever you want as long as you can't hurt yourself with it. I guess you wouldn't want a bible. Also, we could write your Dr. a note suggestion that she up the dosage on your lithium.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 03:21 PM

LOL! A sort of Archie Bunker of the Midlands, is he?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 01:58 PM

Some
comedy         from Ians neck of the woods!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket being patriotic
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 01:49 PM

The other year, after a week skiing around Banff we drove to Panorama ski resort which is just outside Invermere. Sounds a lovely place but other than the mountains as a backdrop, a bit of a dump. Grimesthorpe Miners Welfare however is a wonderful bar in which to partake of a glass of Chardonnay of an evening.   

Best read that in conjunction with Jerk's running commentary on my prose.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 01:40 PM

Grimsthorpe Colliery Brass Band. Look them up too.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 01:36 PM

Well, the town names do not inspire confidence! ;-) Grimethorpe sounds particularly awful. I should think anyone would be desperate to escape the place.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket procrastinating
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 01:30 PM

I don't know if you watch Top Gear? I noticed it was on the box in Canada when I was over last. They knocked up a couple of racing cars with imaginary advertising on them. Penistone Motors being one. No prizes for guessing what was left when they opened the door. ....

The English folk singer Mike Harding, although from Manchester gets most of his comedy from the area. Download a track from Red Specs album called Wath upon Dearne Blues. It includes an imaginary conversation with a local. .. Wath is just north of Rotherham and I used to enjoy playing at their club many years ago. A band I was in got a festival booking there too. Happy days.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sanctimonious as a sailor
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:38 AM

Of course I don't live there now. Oh deary deary me no.

Being proud of one's roots is all the more forceful if one doesn't have to live in the blessed area anymore.   They aren't burying their dead in Dinnington, they're eating them. Worksop has them propping up bus stops and I occasionally drive through flicking Vs at the peasants.

(Sorry, Bridge would expect nothing less from a dirty rotten stinking capitalist.   Is that better Richard? )

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:35 AM

Cool. I might do that.

I took a look on Google maps. There are some extraordinary and rather suggestive names of towns all around there...Cudworth, Grimethorpe, Cumberworth, Wombwell, and last but not least...Penistone!

Unbelievable. How would one tell people one was from Penistone and keep a straight face? Although, I suspect they pronounce it "pennis - stone" to get around that...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans his heritage
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:22 AM

My neck of the woods. Draw a noose to take in Barnsley at the top, Sheffield to the west, Rotherham to the east and scrape in Worksop to the south.   The South Yorkshire coal field. I worked down Manton Pit, and served part of my apprenticeship at Orgreave, Manvers and Fence. One has gone all posh over the years but still intimidate those buggers in London with it. It is good for swearing. ... mudcatters from the patch would distinguish between parts of the area and Barnsley, well. Least said soonest mended. ..

On a serious note, go on Amazon to buy any book by Barry Hines, a local playwright andsauthor. The Price of Coal and A Kestrel for a Knave are somewhat autobiographical for many of us.   The latter became an excellent film called Kes.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 10:07 AM

LOL!!!!!!! Oh, God...I love it! ;-) I have to take a trip to the UK sometime soon and hear this palaver firsthand. What brand of dialect were you using there, Ian?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket squaring up
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 10:03 AM

If thy has a bloody skillet woman, get round here with it pronto! Being a toffee nosed git I ave my aga turned off whilst our lass gets her new kitchen built. Having to cook in the scullery and that ain't fair on a real lady, so an old trout like you with a skillet could come in andy.

Leave yer lip at home wi Eddie though. Don't want no back chat just decent snap on t'table. Tha'll get a reight cow tailer if tha opens thee gob.

And gu steady on t'salt. Am middle class these days tha knores.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Mrs Olive Whatnoll
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:43 AM

Cor!!! So YOU are Percy the Piss-Tyker!!!!!!!!!!! You rotten bastard! I know all about you. If I 'ad you in me fyce now I would thump you wif me skillet, I would, and stomp on yer fecking gob! Then I'd 'ave me 'usband Eddie sit on you and squash you flat! You are the sort of bloody sod that pollutes the streets of me fair city every time you tyke a step, you wif yer stupid jokes wot ain't funny! You toffy-nosed git! I 'ope a lorry runs over yer fat 'ead!

Olive Whatnoll

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket staying below
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 07:10 AM

This thread stays below the line, or my name isn't Percy the Piss Taker.

How can I have a serious conversation about Dylan when Jerk makes it clear people are not allowed to take me serious by his order?

I like early Dylan myself. God on our side helped prevent me from being screwed up and one too many mornings was one of the first songs I sang in public.

Dylan covers are a plenty. His take on the Nic Jones arrangement of Canadee i o was decent and on his new album Tempest, I like his take on Barbara Allen, to think of two.

This side of the pond, we all used to enjoy Dylan, though Dougal had attitude, Florence was too prim and proper, Zebeddee was off the wall and Ermintrude was rather disturbing.

Time for bed.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 02:25 AM

Shouldn't this thread be above the line?!!    :0(

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 12:51 AM

Hey, Chongo might buy those bananas! I won't.

It is evident that we disagree on this subject, and no doubt always shall.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 12:45 AM

" It's also about phrasing, timing, emotional communication, intensity, and clarity. Dylan is very strong in a number of those areas, specially when he was younger. "

No, he had phasing and timing for the rest he was and is very weak.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 12:19 AM

I've heard Dylan do wonderful covers of a good number of traditional songs...and a very nice cover of the Gordon Lightfoot song "Early Morning Rain" on the album "Self-Portrait" (which also contains some pretty poor performances by Mr Dylan...as well as some darned good ones). I've heard him mess up covers...I've heard him do great covers...depends on which songs and when.

By the way, I'm not suggesting he did the Lightfoot song better than Lightfoot! Lightfoot is or at least was a great singer with a beautiful voice. However, Dylan does a really good cover of Early Morning Rain on the aforementioned album Self-Portrait.

Leonard Cohen is an interesting case. He actually became a much better singer in later years than when he was young, because he learned to use the lower range of his voice and not push the upper end so hard. Singing isn't just about having a conventionally "pretty" voice, and it isn't just about tonal purity either. It's also about phrasing, timing, emotional communication, intensity, and clarity. Dylan is very strong in a number of those areas, specially when he was younger. So is Cohen. Effective emotional communication is a huge part of good singing.

I quite agree that Bruce, Buffy, and Willy can sing very well, but I've heard more than a few opinionated people say that they can't. Neil is Neil...and I like his sound. Still haven't gotten used to Tom Waites...but I haven't really listened to him enough to get used to his sound.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 11:29 PM

Bruce, Buffy and Willy can all sing very well.

Leonard doesn't try too. Neil is trying to portray a certain attitude when he sings lead but sings very well in harmony.

Bob Dyan writes lyrics very suitable to reciting in time with music. and he has an idiosyncratic vocal signature where his voice rises in pitch at the end of a line. He vocalizes through his nose in an irritating whiny voice. I cannot think of a single person who has covered a Dylan song, and I have heard many hundreds, who did not sing it better than Bob.

I have never heard anyone say. Hey! That's a good song. I wish Bob Dylan would cover it!

Other than that I will not question the professionalism of a musician who says Bob Dylan can sing.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 10:14 PM

Oh, Richard! ;-D You are so wrong. And there are literally tens of thousands of highly professional musicians who'll tell you the same thing. I know some of them.

Mind you, you still have a right to your own opinion, and your opinion is that Dylan "can't sing". I've heard that before. What it really means is that he doesn't (and never did) sing in a manner which appeals to your particular musical tastes, and that's about all there is to it.

The same kind of criticism has been thrown at any number of other great musical performers with somewhat unconventional voices, such as Neil Young (who is often a bit off pitch), Leonard Cohen (who himself joked about his vocal limitations when being awarded Vocalist of the Year one time not too long ago), Tom Waites (who sounds fairly dreadful to me...but he sure can write good songs!), Willy Nelson, Buffy Sainte-Marie (with her unusual tremolo on some songs), Bruce Springsteen, etc.

The fact is, they can all sing, and their unique ways of singing have proven to be part of their appeal and their road to success.

You notice Dylan because he did so well. If he was a musical nobody, you wouldn't care.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 06:01 PM

Dylan has never been able to sing. He has always produced an out of tune sound a bit like a very small circular saw in a resonant metal tube.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 02:15 PM

No. the OP of this thread was about you ever having been perfect. Clearly a powerful delusion worthy of challenge.

A thread about earwax would have had earwax in the title.

We have argued enough about the definition of atheist. Of course you are at a disadvantage since you clearly do not remember the points you make in you own posts.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans op
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 05:18 AM

In fact come to think about it, as you are reminding everyone of an op, this one was about ear wax.

I considered myself as having a bit of earwax. If there is a term of abuse for someone with earwax, I am sure I would have to live with it in the same way as not being superstitious gets you labelled atheist.   A term of abuse originally unless I am mistaken.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 03:38 AM

Your point?







Came over loud and clear.   And was rather insulting to the vast majority of people for whom religion is and always had been something that others get up to.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 03:10 AM

Did you have a "gentleman's bet" that I would take the trouble to document how stupid you are? Again? The famous atheist is Frans Der Waal.



Subject: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Jack the Sailor - PM
Date: 24 Mar 13 - 10:26 PM

Very interesting article. Why are some atheists so militant.

Prominent non-believers have become as dogmatic as those they deride

"I like this analysis better than the usual approach to secularization, which just counts how many people believe and how many don't. It may one day help to test my thesis that activist atheism reflects trauma. The stricter one's religious background, the greater the need to go against it and to replace old securities with new ones."

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/25/militant_atheism_has_become_a_religion/

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:27 AM

Musket....RUOK??
..and in asking, I'm not fucking with you.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:16 AM

There was no post about a famous atheist. There was yet another thread started by you to ridicule anyone who doesn't share your hobby.

It's a bit like Orange Lodge antagonists in Northern Ireland saying all they are doing is exercising their right to walk on the Queen's pavement when marching through "the other side's" area of town.   All they were doing was. ...

And all you were doing was. ... Randomly finding an article on a random subject?   Repeatedly?

Im sure many people have an agenda, but you love printing it out and handing it round the room.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 09:02 PM

No mistake about Dylan singing. In his prime he was one of the most powerfully effective singers ever. Listen to him sing "Blind Willie McTell" in the mid-80s, and see how great a blues singer he was in his prime. Listen to him sing in '65 and '66...there's been nothing like it since for caustic intensity and stunning clarity as well. The fact that he can't sing now is a matter of aging. Joni Mitchell didn't sing for the last 10 years either, and she can't hit the high notes anymore either...nor can Ian Tyson. Tyson had a wonderful voice for most of his life, but it's in shreds now.

****

Back to the stuff about people posting just to prove someone else is a baaaad person. It's a disease in this place (and on the Net in general). When I post complaining about people here, I complain about their online behaviour toward the others herein their posts, not about their innate character or their innate worth. I don't attempt to prove that they are bad people, homophobic, sexist, racist people or anything else like that, because I'm not out to destroy them or make some sweeping judgement of their character. I simply point out that they are unpleasantly attacking other people all the time, labelling other people, and that that is no way to have any kind of useful conversation with anyone.

If you tell someone he's a racist or a homophobe or a fascist or whatever popular buzzword you choose to demonize him with...the conversation is basically already OVER. He will either get angry and reply in kind, telling you what a jerk he thinks you are....or he'll try and prove he isn't what you said he is...which is a fool's errand, because no amount of talk along that line will convince someone who has already labelled someone else. They have a big emotional investment in what they said! And they have their pride. They will not change their mind about it...because they would take that to be "a defeat".

It's like being accused by the Inquisition. Once they've named you "a witch", "a homophobe" or "a racist" you'll never convince them otherwise. Your choices then are to fight or flee....or if you're in no real danger (which you aren't here)...just ignore them or make fun of them. Most people choose to fight, however, because of their damned pride. And those fights go on forever, and no one learns a thing from it.

It doesn't matter who started it! And no one can agree on who started it. Talk to the Israelis and Palestinians or talk to the Irish about that and see if you can get to the bottom of who started it. To hell with worrying about who started it. The only way to stop it is to be the one who decides one day "Okay...I'm just not going to do this any longer."

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 07:38 PM

Dylan? Sing? Shome mishtake shurely.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 05:17 PM

Sane??...Musket??...Are you knocking my homeland??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 04:34 PM

Yes because an appropriate response to an article from a famous atheist criticizing Dawkins and Hitchens is 1220 posts of venom and insults about a hundred of which are from you directed at me.

As always, Musket, sane and logically consistent. LOL LOL

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 04:28 PM

Perhaps they do it, because they don't like what the previous poster said, but they bark like a nasty little mutt because they really have nothing to say....and they'd rather express themselves that way...than continuing in licking their balls more....besides, it's the one thing they can do, while typing!
Certainly, thinking isn't one of them!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,musket answering little hawk
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 04:23 PM

Yeah but to get to the cause of why people post to bad mouth others, you have to find out who started it. It is generally a big boy who ran away, teacher.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Zimmerman
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 04:19 PM

Luckily for us, he's a woman in a porn flick

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 04:13 PM

"The last time I saw Dylan he had resorted to talking the lyrics a la Capt Kirk."

Yeah, his singing voice is shot...and has been for about 10 years now, although some nights it's a bit better than others. Still, his phrasing is interesting, his lyrics are interesting, his band is terrific, and the material on his recent album is great.

I don't equate that to wanking in the corner. Also, you don't get paid anything for wanking in the corner unless you're a good looking woman in the porn industry.

Here's a thought, guys. People who make endless posts on Mudcat dedicated to the purpose of simply proving that another poster is "a bad person" (that is: bigot/racist/sexist/etc) are engaged in a pointless exercise, one far more trivial than wanking in the corner....and yet there are a number of individuals here who spend their days doing just that...trying to prove that another poster is a BAAAD person! ;-D

It can't possibly have any useful effect on anyone, neither on the one doing it nor the one receiving the verbal attacks. It's just pissing in the wind. It may give you a very brief adrenalin high and a heady sense of righteousness whenever you do it, but the rest of the world is either ignoring you...or perhaps a few of them are joining you in your emotional addiction if they also enjoy pissing in the wind...or else they're laughing at you.

It definitely won't change the other person. It won't destroy the other person, make them beg for forgiveness and redemption or drive them away...because they're just as righteous as YOU are! ;-) They think they're the "good" people, see? It's a complete waste of your time. It puts people in a lousy mood...(kind of the opposite effect of real wanking).

(Note: I could well be accused of completely wasting MY time by bothering to tell you all of the above...and that's a GOOD point! ;-D Still, I enjoyed doing it, I'm not angry at anyone, and it gave me another chance to simply express myself, which is all any of us are really doing here anyway. We come here to express ourselves, just like a dog does when he barks at the world in general. I prefer friendly dogs to vicious ones.)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:44 PM

Musket sans wanker:

How can one be without what one is?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:10 PM

Musket sans wanker: "Clever songs describe ideals nobody can achieve and "Clever songs describe ideals nobody can achieve


"Clever songs describe ideals nobody can achieve...."

'Achieving' what??

"...and vices that don't describe a whole person."

Then how did you arrive at that?..that's quite an 'achievement'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket between courses
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:01 PM

Sting reckons he can get it up.   

The last time I saw Dylan he had resorted to talking the lyrics a la Capt Kirk. The musical equivalent of having to have a wank in the corner.

Mind you, Tempest is up there. ...




Sorry, your point? Akenaton thinks I am a male version of Harriet Harman and you think errr. . Buggered if I know.   The good professor is confused too, but being a greyhound that isn't difficult.

Clever songs describe ideals nobody can achieve and vices that don't describe a whole person.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 12:38 PM

Akenaton: "I dont have Sanity's energy Ian...."

You think???...Then what the fuck is this?:

Akenaton: "Prosperity gave us fridges and washing machines,but stole our souls.

You talk of hatred.....I dont hate homosexuals, I dont even hate you, but your posts drip with it towards what you see as easy targets, people who's views are likely to be rejected by the general public or the majority of the Mudcat membership.
I think perhaps you need validation and attention, like a pup who rolls over to have his belly tickled

Just you remember, that "the people" have become as much a manufactured commodity as anything on the supermarket shelves, their validation as empty as the papers they read, the television they watch, or the lives they lead."

Brilliantly said! You STILL KICK ASS!

Little Hawk, as well...you take a very stable 'moderate' position..and it sounds 'extreme' to some....but those are just because their minds have been so blown out, trying to justify politician's lies and pandering. The political dialogue, which is controlled by how the corporate owned and controlled media, portrays it to be, DIVIDED...and then they speak to the numbskulls who actually BELIEVE in their programmed divisions...whip them all up into a frenzy, and then 'report' on the clashes!..as IF that's the ONLY thing going down, with NO alternatives!!...Once the masses are 'ready', then the corporate owned 'politicians' (read: used car salesmen) propose some pre-planned solution...that would have been easily dismissed originally, had it been brought up before!!!...leveraging themselves, and their sponsors, into positions of complete tyrannical control.

Sorry...Sanity is not for sale.....but I'll consider all offers!

Musket, sans reasoning: "Hey Goofus. She reckoned you couldn't get it up."

Well, considering you don't know up from down, I'm sure you're a mixed bag of tricks to deal with...after all, she said, you liked having sex, being on the bottom, face down!

Here, I'll leave you a tune....

Great lyrics!!
...couple it with, this one!

Enjoy!....Maybe even think!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket being serious
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 12:00 PM

My posts do drip on the basis you need to drip strong acid onto strong alkaline to neutralise the effects. You consistently seek to deny people a fair lick at the lollipop on the basis sugar is bad for them. I genuinely cannot reconcile your dismissal of gay monogamy on the basis of a problem with promiscuity.

Until we overcome that hurdle I cannot take you seriously and despite your observation that I am setting a standard I have no right to set, I cannot and will not give quarter to what is by any definition bigotry. You may not like the term but it succinctly describes your stance on a section of equal stakeholders in society.

Your pessimistic views on how society works, using fridges and washing machines as examples of baubles to keep people quiet also has to include the medical equipment that keeps us more comfortable longer, entertainment technology and access to broaden our horizons. If it is bread and circuses, so be it. Happiness is relative. I am overall optimistic though, and on that, regardless of whether respect is there or not, we differ.

But in the same way as I avoid the local tap room and walk over a mile further to a nicer pub due to the casual racism and general not nice people in there, it stands to reason I have difficulty debating where logic, reason and equal stake in society are missing from your side. It doesn't leave much else to debate.

If you think I only go on this site to preach and rant, you would be wrong. It saddens me that articulate people with a love of music can use their ability to be so bitter, to oppose the idea of everybody having the same opportunity to be happy in the way they choose, and no valid reason given. You don't even have the advantage of religious hypocrisy to fortify your sanctimony...

Sorry but where I see bigotry I will attack. If people just walk on the other side of the road, bigotry can never be defeated. Out of interest, I don't think, reading your posts that you see it like that. But your mental leap isn't logical, leaving us with little alternative to judge you by.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 11:14 AM

Ah....at least we are starting to begin a discussion.....I dont real hate anyone or anything except "capitalism" it makes us all mean to one another, it says there is virtue in inequality, it says that humanity needs be motivated by greed or power, or the quest for riches, to survive. Nothing could be further from the truth, we all have our talents from the weakest to the strongest both in physique and intellect.
In my youth I lived in such a place...whole families, even communities working together in co-operation.
Life was hard and we had to take responsibility for everything we did, but we slept like babies and knew never a day was wasted.
Everyone from young children to the old ones contributed and felt fulfilled in doing so.

Prosperity gave us fridges and washing machines,but stole our souls.


I dont have Sanity's energy Ian....tho' I once did....I feel the battle has been lost, but I admire him for his enthusiasm.

You talk of hatred.....I dont hate homosexuals, I dont even hate you, but your posts drip with it towards what you see as easy targets, people who's views are likely to be rejected by the general public or the majority of the Mudcat membership.
I think perhaps you need validation and attention, like a pup who rolls over to have his belly tickled

Just you remember, that "the people" have become as much a manufactured commodity as anything on the supermarket shelves, their validation as empty as the papers they read, the television they watch, or the lives they lead.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket shaking his head
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 09:22 AM

Your mirror would blush.

Free thinking sounds wonderful, utopian even. But the carnage of those hurt by irresponsible statements represents the difference between free speech and the responsibility of free speech.

How the flying fuck you reconcile free thinking and energy with your usual "we are all going to hell in a handcart" is beyond me. You usually scorn liberal thinking and blame it for giving respectability to a section of society.

Just remember, there is a huge difference between being polite and being comfortable with hate expressed. You should thank me for giving you straight. You know where you stand anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 09:12 AM

Well, you and Akenaton both seem to see one another as bitter and with a chip on the shoulder. I wonder if that has any basis in fact or if it's just the result of the very limited emotional communication that keyboards provide.

The most bitter person I've seen on this forum is Greg F, who seems to come here only to get angry at people and vent his unending spleen on them...but again, that probably isn't the whole story on Greg.

Yes, "A perfect system would distinguish between views and prejudice", but we don't have a perfect system...nor is any one of us competely without prejudice.

The Left in Canada has given us good things like universal health care, unions, universal suffrage, and all kind of other good stuff, same as in the UK, but at the mainstream political level the Left has been gutted, because the parties and elected politicians are all actually serving big monied interests now, which is to say: major corporations and major banks. It doesn't matter which party gets voted into office, that's what happens regardless...mind you, some parties are still a bit worse than others.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 09:04 AM

Thank you brother.
I view Sanity in the same light, an intelligent free-thinking person brim full of energy and original ideas.
Still not touched by the dead hand of cynicism or political ideology.

People such as he should be treasured, not scorned by brainwashed dogmatists.

Cameron does hate his party, because their views on society may not get him elected, by a dumbed down, media addled, populace.

Reason and truth no longer matter...."say what makes profit and makes you popular"...fools hate folks like Hitchins or Kucinich or Paul, because they hold up a great mirror before them, in which they see what they have become.
This forum at it's best can also serve that purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket being serious
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 08:58 AM

The left as it was? I don't think it was bitter, homophobic and went around with a chip on its shoulder. The left over here included Bevan who gave healthcare for all, Wilson who gave us the open university and comprehensive state education, Hardy who fought for a fair society, Benn who exposed hypocrisy in politics and showed us what representation meant, Hattersley and Kinnock who tried to destroy polarised politics and it gave us me.

A dirty rotten stinking capitalist really, but hey, no system is perfect.

A perfect system would distinguish between views and prejudice. The former makes the world go round and the latter keeps finding the off switch.

Fuck 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 08:06 AM

I don't really care anymore if people are on the Right or on the Left. What I care about is whether they can see through the facade of knee-jerk propaganda and primitive political manipulation that is being used by both sides to control people...and Gfs can. That's why I often agree with him. Same goes for Akenaton, who is definitely a Leftist, and one who has not abandoned the original ideals of the Left as it once was.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 07:59 AM

Don't get all analytical and serious on me, Richard. I was engaging in nothing more than humorous banter when I mentioned Don Cherry.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 06:29 AM

Err.. socialist. Noun. Believer in egalitarian society and equality.

Pray carry on.

Err. Stereotype. Noun. Judging gays as a group with common failings.

Ok. Back to you again.




Hey Goofus. She reckoned you couldn't get it up. I said no matter. His idea of free thinking and no taboos falls short of what people really want. I assume the ladies have lower expectations back in Sanity. The good professor said you whimpered when he made you his bitch. Strange as he can't get it up either on account of being a jaffa.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 05:36 AM

Isn't it funny how the some of the "liberals" on this forum are the first to "stereotype".

"But he(Mr Hitchins), is The UK's version of an American Tea Party dude."

This is the sort of attitude which is always struck by "liberals".
They have to stick everyone into boxs to make them easier to demonise.

I have been a socialist politically all my life, yet many of my personal views have been rather conservative on social issues.
I believe there are millions like me who refuse to be dominated by the phoney war being conducted by the politicians.

The biggest impediment to a better society are those who have become polarised by political propaganda.....always searching for "one small victory".....as in Stan Rogers great song.....a victory that will mean that they lose something much more important.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:29 AM

Wow, Akenaton, that was really cool..glad you liked it. When I first came into Mudcat, I was under the impression that there were writers and composers in here, too...and, well, I said in my earliest posts, and some along the way, that as writers, composers and musicians we should be free, to have some original thoughts...and I've said, that I WANTED to get people to think..and think above politics, which was designed to get people stuck inside the hamster wheel. Politics don't solve ANYTHING...they only 'promise' to fix the last mess that they got us into!! There is NO political solution...never was. Mankind's behavior comes from, and is dictated from the heart, and a clear mind...and of course 'intelligence is the ability to process information'..not make value judgements about somebody else's ideas about how to compel people to accept something that would normally be contrary to their own wills!!
I've tried to load up my posts with stuff for writers to take advantage of, or to stimulate creative thought...and have posted that very intention on here...OH, speaking of which.....

Muskrat posted: "On other matters, nice to see Akenaton and Goofus bonding. Great minds often think alike."

Speaking of 'bonding' Musket and I have a bond of sorts, ourselves, but not many know about it...so I won't reveal it.....but I can't find my shoes, ever since he came home early the other day.....OH, and by the way, your wife wanted to tell you that you're out of Scotch!

GfS

P.S. Check under the bed, they're grey sneakers....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Karl Marx
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:10 AM

Hitchens runs true to form in his articles and whilst I don't read every one, I tend to dip in from time to time just to see if the person doing political forum shows occasionally such as BBC Question Time really can be so. .. err Yes he can.

An interesting parallel to your hockey guy would be Jeremy Clarkson who, when not ranting about cars rants from a reactionary stance on any issue. He doesn't take himself seriously and enjoys the money his controversy brings him. Hitchens however makes the mistake of being honest. .....

On other matters, nice to see Akenaton and Goofus bonding. Great minds often think alike.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 01:43 AM

A false parallel. Cherry is involved in an insular sport in one country. Peter Hitchens is not limited to one jurisdiction and could almost be thought of as a political commentator or general polemicist. But has persistently (for about 20 years) written from a very right wing and at times fascistic point of view. There is however an interesting comparison to the early days of the British fascist movement in that Hitchens began his political interests as a revolutionary Marxist while Oswald Mosley went conservative/labour/fascist.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 11:00 PM

Ian, I can not know much about Hitchens if you don't know much about Don Cherry (the Canadian hockey commentator). If so, we're even. ;-)

Don Cherry acts like he's somewhere to the Right of Genghis Khan...but he's a true showman, and he's made quite a career out of being outrageous in his own very unique and amusing fashion. I also know people who know him personally, and they all speak well of him.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 07:22 PM

Again a typical response from Ian's chum (they are not really enemies you know :0))....the "liberal" agenda takes precedence over the phoney left /right game every time.


Shouldn't you be listening and commenting on what Mr Hitchins actually says, rather than what he is?

I would guess that he is a member of the human race who does not subscribe to your faith based agenda. :0)

Would you like a sandwich board just like Ian, Richard?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 06:34 PM

Damn, Mither, this love affair between us is going to end in tears!

Can it be possible that people do not know what Hitchens is? Ho hum.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 05:37 PM

I've said it before, but it's worth repeating, Little Hawk is a great example of a REAL unindoctrinated liberal.

Gawd bless'im!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 05:31 PM

Thank you very much Sanity....lovely gentle satire...I really enjoyed the singer and the songs.

Dont listen to the childishness on here, your posts are always interesting and original, you may not be flavour of the month to some on this forum, but we need more like you to stimulate discussion and your heart is definitely in the right place.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket smiling
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 05:07 PM

Now look what you have done, little hawk. Me? I'd think long and hard about the situation if Goofus was so enthusiastic about something I wrote....

And neither of us are politicians...........

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 04:59 PM

WELL SAID, Little Hawk!!!!!!
BRAVO!!!
You nailed it!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket making a point
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 04:54 PM

Hitches is correct when he says polarised politics push buttons, as I am sure I would agree with him if he said Pinot noir is best served at a slightly lower temperature to chianti.

But he is The UK's version of an American Tea Party dude. He is the right wing section of the most right wing newspaper. Bridge reckons I can be to the right of most here, but Hitchens would make me look as if I wore sandals and drank beer with bits of bark in it.

His condemnation is of what he is paid for saying in his columns! The only difference between a politician and a journalist is how we pay them.

I heard his brother used to pray for him.............

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 04:40 PM

Hey, I'm WAY to the Left, politically speaking....I don't know much about Hitchen's general views...but I do agree with what he said in that short video clip. I think he's right on the mark when it comes to that specific subject, in terms of how cynical politicians on both the Right and the Left are using it to push people's buttons, to draw attention to themselves, to make a mountain out of a molehill, and to posture as if they were freedom-loving idealists when they are usually nothing of the kind.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket beyond belief
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 04:33 PM

Hitchens?

That bugger says we should still have an Empire.

His brother disowned him you know.

I don't need to carry on with insults. The source of your views says it all.

Again, back in your pit,and take your copy of The Daily M*il with you.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 03:36 PM

When one claims Hitchens as a guru one has condemned oneself. Unequivocally.

And while we are at it, Wannabee Pharaoh has made little secret of what he hates (Pikeys, faggots, that sort of thing) I have never seen him make clear what he does support.

Keith on the other hand makes it clear that he hates Muslims and wogs, and fairly clear that he would impose martial law or something similar.

FFS, meanwhile, incants gibberish to such an extent that it is almost completely unclear what he does like and what he dislikes - other than uppity niggers with foreign middle names in the white house, which he thinks is wrong.   

It all makes me very satisfied to be vaguely left-ish.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 02:54 PM

You'll notice the date on this one is 1967!!!
Some truths just don't go away!!!
...but then, 'I am not perfect after all'

...and Ake, (and others),you'll love this one!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 02:47 PM

...hey here's another one of his......really cool!

By the way, Biff was a sketch writer for George Carlin!
I knew him years ago, when he lived in Venice, California....

gfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 02:31 PM

Sometimes our own reality is too close for us to see it clearly.

Hi Ake!..I agree with your(and Hitchens') take on 'liberal bigotry'. Prejudiced hatred, because of political ideology, anyway you slice it, is in fact bigotry...especially when civil discourse ceases. It is an old adage, "The person who first starts calling names, does so, because he has lost the debate!"
..and BTW, some of the posters who would like to think of themselves as 'liberally hip', are just so far off on a tangent, that center, seems extreme to them. the same can also be said of Conservatives, who just chant their mantras. This whole 'left vs right' has gone into the absurd, because should one find themselves so blocked to another idea, or even, God forbid, LEARNING something outside of their little box, real progress ceases!...so I'll leave you with this little tune, which I've posted before, that says a WHOLE LOT!!!

...and note the final verse!!!

Warmest regards, Akenaton!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 02:06 PM

Hi Sanity...I see your point, but i think Hitchins was addressing the wider point of the "liberal" attitude to anyone who disagrees with their dogma.....as expounded here by Ian.

It is indeed a type of bigotry....an unreasoning adherance to a view which the facts have proved questionable.
Ians use of personal abuse and name calling in every post is a typical example of such bigotry, but i dont expect him or his chums to recognise it.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 12:22 PM

Just watched the video...dead on, except for only one thing...Hitchens was speaking from a political point of view, and his points were right on...but didn't address the question of the validity of the merits of the claims of being homosexual, were not confronted....which is still sorta OK, but those merits are absolute folly...but then... " I am not perfect after all"!

BTW, neither did the recent Supreme Court decision.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 11:12 AM

Peter Hitchins            On "gay marriage"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 10:56 AM

My views are not unequivocal Ian, but I do make a serious attempt to explain my views and to broaden out the discussion.

You on the other hand are merely a "sloganiser", for the probable reason that your views do not stand up to serious scrutiny.

you have never made any attempt to explain homosexual STD statistics or the low uptake rates for homosexual marriage or same gender civil union. wich is currently 0.05% I believe?

Anyway the current popular views on sexual mores and the attacks on those who oppose them, is accurately described by Mr Peter Hitchins as "liberal" bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Clapton
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 06:15 AM

As opposed to Akenaton whose views are unequivocal.








Sadly

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 06:10 PM

Akenaton: "Ian...as Richard has mentioned, you are becoming almost incoherent."

Hey...wait a minute....."RE: BS: I am not perfect after all"

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 05:25 PM

Ian...as Richard has mentioned, you are becoming almost incoherent.

Further discussion on this thread is a waste of time, just shouting equality over and over is not a balanced argument.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 04:55 PM

Never heard of Jodi Arias and a brief squint at Wikipedia shows only passing reference to anal sex. Your point, FFS?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 02:29 PM

Hey, I've Never stalked Don...that's something he said....because he was stalking me, and figured I must have been doing it to him...'The weak accuse others of their motives!'...but then he likes to stuff his shit into other people's mouths.....pithewie!..or is the pitooie?..Shit neither one is right...oh well, it fits...neither is Don!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans flat cap
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 02:19 PM

Ah. Don't worry Bridge. Still a dirty rotten stinking capitalist. Ok. I'll accept champagne socialist. I once designed a water filtration system for selling to breweries so I can claim to be the man who waters the worker's beer. (!)

Right. Onto Goofus.   Err. Naw, sod it. Im not qualified. Say Goofus. Have you actually read the old bigot's posts?   Whatever makes you think he has any regard whatsoever for public health.   When you are fighting in a corner, any missile will do. The sad statistics for health of gay men is harrowing. What is beyond decency is using it as a stick to hit them with. He makes respectable people feel ill. He really does.

Please, carry on being a diversion from reality and carry on entertaining, apart from when you stalk Don, but for Clapton's sake, don't let us think the man behind the fool is as bad as our bitter twisted failure.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 02:16 PM

Richard Bridge: "And by the way some women do like anal sex. Some don't."

True...some do, some don't...Jodi Arias seemed most solicitous about it, in her murder trial....some like shaving their heads with a cheese grater, while chewing tin foil, too!

You think some guys like rubbers, too?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 01:49 PM

Dammit Mither, will you please go back to the objectionable capitalist you used to be. Otherwise I may have to start liking you!

By the way, you will find that I pretty consistently post "fiend". It is intentional and started when Mr Happy, some years ago, posted about sessions on the fringe at festivals toured by "Mr Happy and fiends".

And by the way some women do like anal sex. Some don't.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 01:40 PM

Muskbutt: "Either that or you do understand and just leaping to the defence of Akenaton's hatred."

I guess Akenaton's concern for health may be looked upon by others as being hatred.
BTW, do you still scream when someone comes by and pulls your thumb out?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 01:23 PM

Yes post whatever cryptic nonsensical Mather Blather that breezes through your mostly empty skull then complain that it is not understood.


That is how you build upon the reputation you have built by bouncing from one abrasive personality to another.

Nope, not perfect.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 01:15 PM

If you don't understand a post, don't make yourself look a fool.

Either that or you do understand and just leaping to the defence of Akenaton's hatred.

I hope not. I think you an idiot, but hitherto, not an odious one.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 12:53 PM

" canine eugenics. "

Do you mean "Dog Breeding"

20,000 years or more of history.

You want they should stayed wolves Mr. Smartymusket?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 11:27 AM

akenaton: "Sanity....powerfully expressed, if a little personal."


Far more common, than you'd think. ..but then, you're a guy..and most men will agree, and have, when I give them shit about it...I couch it with humor..and all too often, the guys will sheepishly grin...By the way, 'personal'??..hitting close to home, huh? ...because they KNOW it's true, and that's what they thought,..a well guarded thought, because the last thing they want to let out to their wives, is anything that would signal to them, that they really weren't all that thrilled to find out she was pregnant! That being said, it may be something they could talk about, far later. It borders on men admitting to their wives, that when they were having sex with them, that they sometimes, (or always..or often) were thinking about somebody else!!!..ANYBODY HOME, out there, GUYS?????..........(don't freak, Ebbie, it happens, and way more often than you might have imagined....maybe even with you...it's just guys!)
I actually have a comedy bit about that, but it might be hard to post, without the benefit of tonal expression. I've seen guys grimace, as if to say, "Oh no!!..Don't say THAT!!...Shit..Jeez!!",,hold their breath, and only moving their eyeballs, try to look at their wives(or dates), to see if she caught that...and looking for re-action!
But then there is a woman's 'revenge'!....Ladies, next time you 'sense' that lack of 'emotional intimacy' during sex, just look at him and ask, "OK, who are you thinking about, NOW???"...He'll swear, it was nobody....as he slowly goes limp!..and pissed...and he'll blame it on YOU!!!..ANYBODY HOME?????....But then, the thread title is, 'I am not perfect after all'!!!!!

Akenaton: "I am sure most women find this (anal sex)practice painful and degrading."

...and maybe that's the allure to a lot of men...Shhh shhh sshh!!

Oh, and by the way, if some of you men out there find the above post, somewhat humorous..well, it's because you've more than likely been there, seen that, done that.....but I won't tell!!

Just one of those things guys don't talk about much....in the presence of a lady!!!....especially YOURS!!

Oh well...........'I am not perfect after all'!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans imperfection
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 09:32 AM

Designed by nature? A bit rich from someone who supports canine eugenics.

Many heterosexual couples were never designed to have children. Should we have their marriages annulled? Or maybe work out a test in the womb and if a feutus is deigned to be infertile, abort it?

At least your depravity in the post above can't be linked to your false fixation with gay health. Your true colours were too strong to keep under your kilt.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 05:35 AM

"Many couples can't have children. Some of them gay couples."
Some hetero couples may choose not to have children, some may be prevented by a medical problem from having children.

Same sex couple were never designed by nature to have children.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 05:30 AM

I am tempted to cut and paste Akenaton's post above into an email to all politicians who take an interest in public health. There's your problem, now stop cutting the health promotion budget. Ill informed shallow ignorance is still out there, and it has a vote.

So there we have it. Nothing to do with health statistics, it is to do with procreation. If you don't want kids, don't get married. If you can't have kids, don't get married. If you no longer get it up, get a divorce.

And if you are gay, be judged by your betters. After all, if you are in a loving relationship of many years, you are apparently more promiscuous than most of the teenage pregnancy patients cluttering up our statistics. We need our statistics to be polarised so Akenaton can use them to defend his general views.

I'm just glad there is nothing he has ever agreed with me on. it must be awful to think he holds you in high esteem.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 03:51 AM

Sanity....powerfully expressed, if a little personal
I agree with a lot of what you say regarding the blood bond, an important ingredient in the survival of humanity.

The traditional definition of marriage contains reference to the family structure, "love" on its own is not a definition, it is an emotion which means very different things to different people.

It is not necessary to "love" ones partner to have a successful marriage, produce and bring up a well balanced family, but it is necessary to be of different genders.

If male to male sex is not a risk, could someone please explain the homosexual health figures?
Anal sex, although unpleasant, is not the real problem, which is the extreme rates of promiscuity that sex between males engenders...it has much more to do with the male being naturally programmed to have as much sex as possible.....the production of a family structure limits this natural programming.
Most heterosexuals settle down after marriage and having children, but there are no such limitations on homosexual relationships, in fact the figures show that male homosexuals become more promiscuous as they approach middle age.

I agree with Hawk that personal choice is these matters is important, but legislation is the business of us all....especially when it is legislation to normalise behaviour which is damaging to health.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans pain in arse
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 03:25 AM

Most weddings I have been to weren't dangerous. Other than the cake, they weren't unhealthy either. ... Thinking on, the civil partnership ceremonies we have been to passed off without a hitch too.

Back in your pit, there's a good bigot.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 03:16 AM

Ian, i don't think you really want me to respond to your last post, it has an air of desperation about it.
I will leave you to flounder in your in your own agenda.

Little Hawk....I agree with everything you say regarding the status of personal choice in these matters, but we ARE talking about legislation to normalise a practice which is without doubt dangerous and unhealthy.....for whatever reasons.

I also share your views on anal sex, which I find pretty disgusting and am of the opinion that in most cases this is a power thing ....of the male exerting his will on the female....in effect demeaning her status.
I am sure most women find this practice painful and degrading.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans pain in arse
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 03:12 AM

Never floated my boat, but nothing to do with me if others do.

But Akenaton's excuse for his hatred falls at the first hurdle if you don't have a heterosexual marriage vow never to turn the other cheek as it were. Hence bringing the subject up. The gender is not the risk. Viruses rarely distinguish.

Tried making sense of Goofus' s rant but failed. Never tried an ass, or a donkey for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 12:26 AM

Hmm. Well, I've always found the idea of anal sex extremely unappealing, not to mention unnatural. However, many heterosexual men seem to like doing that to their female partners...and some females seem to like the idea. I don't know how many, in either case. But it seems to be becoming more common. I don't consider it a healthy sexual practice no matter who is doing it to whom, but I do consider it a matter of personal choice, a private matter, and I am not opposed to people exercising choice, whether it be in regards to anal sex, gay marriage or abortion...or for that matter, smoking grass or smoking cigarettes (outdoors or in their own privacy, not in enclosed public areas where the smoke affects others). People have to make up their own minds about stuff like that, I think. And I accept that they do.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 12:21 AM

Yeah..sad, but too often true!

It's really NOT about 'hate'..but more like, looking at something higher, as in 'normal'.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 11:09 PM

Wow. :(

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 04:16 PM

Muskrat: "I suppose I shouldn't mention women liking it up their arse then? Must be too confusing a concept for your stance."

At least when homosexuals have sex that way, they give birth to a bunch of little shits...at least they don't have to change diapers...they harvest them for cologne!

Hey...look down between you legs, there.....what do you see??...Oh, isn't that part of the reproductive system?...Oh, it's not?..You mean it's a toy??...oh, then what's that urge we get??...Oh, part of the 'mating dance'....well what if you don't want to mate?..maybe just want to have some fun?.....Really??....Maybe that's why when a young bride comes home and says, "Honey, I just came back from the doctor's, and guess what?"....and at that point the guy tries to remain emotionless, and the young bride, with a big warm smile on her face says, "Guess what?..I'm pregnant!"....His VERY careful response is, "Are you sure?" (hoping not to let on, "OH FUCK..Damn it!"
At that point the 'free fun' is over........................they think!
Just think, without that little 'urge' (to some, an obsession), YOU probably wouldn't be here, either!
Funny how that happens...because years later, that guy will be more impacted profoundly...than the best fuck he ever got....which he may not even remember!...but he WILL remember the energy and effort it took to raise that kid!!...unless of course you're one of those morons who just fuck whatever, and WON'T stick around to raise the child, should your reproductive system works better than your brain! Then you just sprinkle the earth with kids struggling to get through the FACT that they weren't even loved enough, or worth enough, that the ol' man ran off!...What a curse to live through....but that's OK, the asshole tells himself..I was horny, she was sorta cute enough...the rest was HER fault!
So, unless you've 'mounted' a woman, knowing that it may produce a child, and if it does, and with that same LOVE you take care of it, look out for it, teach it, provide for it, and try to make his way better than the previous generation you can take your 'notion' of what you THINK love is, shove it up your ass, and howl at the moon!.. Because you ain't got shit to say worth listening to...because you're dysfunctional, in one way or the other....and who gives a rats ass that you cannot distinguish love for being horny, anyway?!!!
Akenaton speaks often of diseases associated with homosexuality..I'll go him one further, you're already mentally and an emotionally disturbed self absorbed prick, if you treat a woman or a man with that kind of complete abandon...and God help you, if you treat your own child with the same!.......Animals, in the wild, do better!

Wow!..too much hassle....let's fuck each other in the ass...maybe we can make it socially acceptable...call it 'love'...nobody would know the difference!...but then,...........'I am not perfect after all'...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans belief
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 12:47 PM

Whilst we are at it, lets ban heterosexual marriage till we work out the effect of every other std.

Many couples can't have children. Some of them gay couples.

So... When you are Prime Minister you will allow lesbians but not gay men. Let me help you form your next hatred stance. You can catch things licking out a lasses tuppence. Throat cancer amongst them. Wait! That's ok because heterosexual people can catch it too.

I suppose I shouldn't mention women liking it up their arse then? Must be too confusing a concept for your stance.

Equality is equality. People can and soon will marry based on love, not after a health screening. If we did that, how long before a fat chav reared on McDonalds and Turbo Lager is sterilised because their kids, lets face it, will be a burden on society.

Amazing, Akenaton. Words almost fail me. Read your posts before sending them, please!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 11:38 AM

No explanation Ian?....didn't expect one.

It is a matter of choice or a medical problem, whether or not a heterosexual couple have children. It is at present impossible for a homosexual couple to have children naturally.......but I am sure before long, Dr Frankenstein will catch up!

Of course monogamy doesn't promote promiscuity, but homosexual "marriage" or civil union, lasts on average 1.5 years and the take up rates are tiny....as such the "marriage" issue is a bit of a smoke screen to the real problem, which is the homosexual health figures.
Now I am certain that extreme promiscuity causes these rates of infection, and as they don't pertain to lesbians, there must be something endemic in male to male sex which is extremely damaging to the health of homosexuals.

We should not bring forward legislation to promote or normalise this behaviour until we have some understanding of what is causing the horrific infection rated among MSM.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Clapton
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 11:37 AM

Yes but Little Hawk. You need him to follow you through the threads injection his views wherever it is inappropriate. He calls gay acceptance liberal nonsense and his continuous citing health statistics to prove hatred of gays being acceptable would in a sane mind feel gay marriage would reduce not increase health issues through promiscuity.

But he doesn't. He says opposing gay marriage is the stance of millions of people hence acceptable. Well it proves one of two things. Either his statistic is erroneous or millionsof ppeople are wrong. I suspect the former with residual hatred of previous generations providing a small percentage of the latter.

Here in The UK churches were allowed to opt out of performing gay marriages. No problem there. Their irrelevance just becomes clearer in an otherwise equal society.

Its very simple. Either every voting adult has the same rights as other voting adults or we double the number of pubs, hotels, buses, trains and toilets to allow for any other forms of segregation that comes to mind. Jews? blacks? How about socialists? We have a right wing government so persecuting weird beards is acceptable.

I fail to see any reason whatsoever for opposing equality.

None whatsoever. Period.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 10:59 AM

It is what it is...and it isn't what it isn't....

GFS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 10:02 AM

There are a number of reasons for marriage.

companionship

the intention to have children together

tradition

the desire to have a reliable sexual partner

the social expectations one has been brought up with

the thought that "everyone does this, and I'm a loser if I don't" (see above...social expectations)

the thought that it's a holy covenant (traditious religious veiwpoint)

legal and financial advantages

the view of the government regarding the subject (they can decide that you ARE married if you live together for awhile under the same roof)

Etc.

All of the above reasons can enter into the equation, as can others...but most of them are not obligatory, they're optional.

Most people do expect to have children when they marry, but a fair number do not, for one reason or another.

Gay marriage is no issue to me at all, one way or another, so I'm not opposed to it, and I have no problem with it being legal. Akenaton is correct to draw attention to health problems associated with the spread of AIDS, and doing so does not indicate that he's a bigot or that he hates gay men. I don't see, however, what it has to do with whether or not gay men should marry one another if they so desire. Churches shouldn't be pressured one way or another about whether they perform gay marriages, but should work it out amongst their own congregation in a democratic fashion...which many of them have done. After all, if you don't like this church...go to that church instead. There ARE options available.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 03:33 AM

Keep going, the pair of you.

The more you type, the less I have to question. You are making your views known quite adequately.

In fact well done. As my wife and I never intended to have children, you expose us as the sham marriage we have. In fact the only bit I don't understand is how monogamy promotes promiscuous behaviour? If Akenaton could understand his own words, I could get on with exciting subjects such as ear wax and being a Messiah.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 03:25 AM

Akenaton: "....and construct the natural family structure which is the bedrock of conventional marriage."

Try, "....bedrock of ALL living societies on the planet with the instinct to survive as a species!"

Just a thought, there Ol' Chap!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 03:18 AM

Could you please explain the following statements?

"Thousands of criminals in prison, does not make crime legitimate"
Are you trying to say that all who oppose homosexual"marriage" are criminals?

"Millions of people vote Conservative, but not many round here seem to agree with their policies."
Are you saying that Conservative opinions are not valid and that Conservatives should be denied a vote?

"My refusal to accept the insults you hurl at gays"
"You twist figures and promote hate. Don't you dare even begin to have a pop at me. I for one am at peace with myself and laugh more than I am sad."

The figures are not mine and they are there for all to see, the latest show huge rates of STD among male homosexuals....HIV and Syphilis.... over 70 % of new cases are amongst male homosexuals.
It defies belief that anyone, even you, fail to see these figures as absolutely horrific, yet they are being concealed from most people by the media, or at best glossed over.
The health agencies are increasingly moving towards compusory testing and contact tracing for MSM, but are impeded by "liberal" political correctness. A difficult enough issue to deal with without being restricted by fools.

You should not be "at peace with yourself" Ian, nor should anyone who choses to hide the misery included in these figures under a smokescreen of "equality" or marriage rights.

You are entitled to your opinion of me personally, but your posts indicate a person with much more hatred in their mind, than you accuse me of spreading.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 02:44 AM

Ian...I'm afraid you don't have a reasonable point of view.

Your stance is based on the world as you would like to see it, you do not make any attempt to address the negative points associated with male homosexuality, or the "rights" which are already avilable to homosexuals under the Civil Union legislation.

Your views are based on what many would see as myth, as much as you see all religious faiths as based on myth.

There is obviously no "equality under the law" in a capitalist society, surely I do not need to give examples of how our legal system is aused by the rich and the powerful?
There is no equality in a hetero or homo "marriage" as one couple is of the same gender and naturally unable to produce offspring and construct the natural family structure which is the bedrock of conventional marriage.

What is being discussed in this issue, is "sexuality", not "love", which can occur between all genders and even between species.
Love and marriage......do NOT always go together like a horse and carriage. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 02:03 AM

Musket sans brainy forethought: "Gay marriage is marriage between two people in love. The only reason to oppose it is hate. You, I recall, don't even hide behind the cloak of superstition."

...but just not enough to love ones self enough, to get beyond being horny, with another emotionally withered, and immature person, to look inward, and see something in there worth passing to his own offspring, naturally, with another being capable of bearing him a child......
...other than that, the rest, I guess, is superstition!...Nothing there to hate...and really, nothing much to take THAT seriously!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 12:53 AM

Careful, Ian! Being a Messiah is a hazardous business. Look what happened to Jesus.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 06:50 PM

Liealyzer:

My refusal to accept the insults that you hurl at gays,

Please post one example of one such insult.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 06:43 PM

"I am not perfect after all" " a a self deprecating thread"

It is "self deprecating" for you to "admit" that you are not perfect?

Thank you for the exquisite candor you thoroughly modest man.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans blood of the Messiah
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 06:24 PM

Yeah but Little Hawk, ours may not be a new religion but we have the recipe and the ingredients.

We can't control the oven temperature nor the words of the food critics. But hey, it is food for the masses.

And it proves Jerk the sailor to be right after all. What isn't to like?

Hard work being the Messiah and a very naughty boy. ... I even seem to be attracting detractors. I can't control the quality of them but nobody is perfect, omnipotent maybe but too many quarks to steer.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 04:00 PM

Thousands of criminals in prison. Doesn't make crime legitimate. Gay marriage is marriage between two people in love. The only reason to oppose it is hate. You, I recall, don't even hide behind the cloak of superstition. Millions of people vote conservative but I don't see many people around here say that means they agree with their policies.

No Akenaton. You are wrong. I never post hate and to be accused of it by the most objectionable bigot on Mudcat is rather offensive.

My refusal to accept the insults that you hurl at gays, the insinuation that rational people with no religious delusions have a past that stopped them being superstitious is so insulting that Jack the Sailor will always be challenged.

You two decided to hijack this thread. It was a self deprecating thread for a laugh till you two and others such as Ron whassiname turned up.

You twist figures and promote hate. Don't you dare even begin to have a pop at me. I for one am at peace with myself and laugh more than I am sad. I don't need to blame huge sections of society, don't need to be grateful to a mythical concept for my situation and never, ever let go when challenging hate and prejudice. Never seen the need to ignore it you see. It just seems to let them think their position is acceptable in polite society. Well it ain't.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 03:47 PM

Ian, I don't think yours IS a new religion at all. It's been around ever since I can remember, and my bet is that it preceded you by centuries, if not millenia. You could make it a quasi-sort-of-new religion, though, (at least officially) if you openly declared yourself to be its prophet, claimed exclusive knowledge on the subject, appointed yourself as Grand High Mucky-Muck of same, wrote a holy book for all your followers to adhere to, and laid down a strict set of rules for them to follow.

You would then have an (officially, if not actually) NEW religion!   Be advised that I would almost certainly not join it. ;-)

Back to the original thread title statement...

"I am not perfect after all"

Didn't Richard Nixon say that once? Or did he just say, "I am not...perfect.   But.......(etc)"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 01:53 PM

Ian seems a thouroughly unpleasant fellow ....name calling is childish and designed to provoke other debaters. It is usually a guide to the character of whoever uses this tactic.

Ian ...just as a matter of information I have no wish to see homosexuals criminalised or subjected to any kind of abuse, so please stop trying to say infer that i do. I am simply against the proposed legislation on homosexual marriage....millions of people share this opinion and it cannot be accurately described as "bigotry".
All legal issues are covered by the legislation on civil union and this additional legislation is both unneccessary and divisive to society.

Your hyserical outbursts do your case no good at all and I think you should try to moderate your language towards other members.
At one time, you would have been kicked out for personal attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Clapton
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 12:44 PM

Not much evidence of dogs crossing the Atlantic there Jerk.

Nice of you to re post it though, some people may not have noticed it first time.

Still, quotes from me tend to be better than the ones you make up eh?

Have you noticed by the way? I attributed a quote to you on the atheist religion thread. I know you didn't say that but hey, never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Thanks for teaching me that.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 11:19 AM

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian - PM
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 03:30 AM

Mind you I have had some decent discussions in the past on the BS wavelength. Nice when people give opinions rather than preempt opinions of others or dismiss large sections of society for being different.

I'm not bigoted but. ... (Sorry, every comic on Dave channel must have copyrighted that line.)

I suppose one problem is when you are either misquoted or have things attributed to you that are false, your natural reaction is to throw it back.   Jerk puts three statements to my name above that are wrong, and he either knows they are wrong or I have been dismissing when I should have been careful, as I am not qualified to deal with his issues. Not sure which it is. Ironically, that could be the biggest insult I have laid on him yet.

Far better that I make my points by starting a new religion in order to point out the absurdity of Jerk's contention that lack of religion is due to damage early in life and totally dismissing Akenaton as being wicked with no attempt at humour on my part.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 12:17 PM

Speaking of inebriation, what ever happened to John From Hull? I haven't heard a peep from him in a dog's age.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans swimming cossie
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 12:04 PM

When you find your pool, do jump in the bugger. The cold sensation might wake thee up a bit.

Hi Little Hawk!

Bridge. I might take you up on that when I get back to my iMac. My Rover 75 had the k series 1.8 turbo. Head gaskets? I can change them on those buggers blind folded. Plenty of practice once the warranty had run out. The trick is to always get the head skimmed as well....

The Hunt reference was ironic. You know I interfere in the NHS, although he has inadvertently seen fault in corporate responsibility versus duty of candour and that is something no minister has explored before. When i was first brought into The NHS to chair a trust, it was on the basis of my business credentials. Within weeks I was on a platform with Tony Blair and Alan Milburn listening, saying The NHS needs to be better and more efficient to cater for patients needs, but run as a business in genuine competition? Only fools believe that. So much for my K.... Still reckon James Naughty had Hunt weighed up if it helps.

All is well with the world you know. A few years ago we would have been propping the Muslim Brotherhood, to disastrous end. So long as they don't pardon the previous bugger and give the keys to the executive bogs, there is hope. The last three years were not sustainable.

We'll never cure the world so have a beer, chill and note that you just called William Bain a fiend. Cheers! Hic!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 11:25 AM

I was just kidding around, Ian. It was a good opportunity for a quip.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 08:46 AM

"Dogs swimming across the Atlantic? You're the one who claims to be a sailor.

That was your claim. oh font of sane wisdom.

If anyone can see where I wrote that, can they point me to it? You see, I am only capable of seeing reality. Hidden meanings and fairies at the bottom of the garden go straight over my head

Keep denying that you wrote it. When it is proven we have a pool on which lame excuse you will use.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 05:29 AM

Ah, Mither, you are on hols and bored, hence interest in primitive rituals like foopbollok and the spraying of gratuitous insults

IIRC Seaman Stanes was so spelt, and Master Bates thus.

Did you see Grayling's response to a PQ from my fiend William Bain? He's still trying to block a route on legal aid (to use the vernacular) to judicial review. Not so sunny there. Hunt the -er- can anyone think of a rhyme - is still trying to stop foreigners getting health treatment, and Blunkett is trying to prevent unions having a voice in the "Labour" party.   And Egypt looks like lighting another fire in the Middle East. No, all is NOT right with the world.

I do however know a man who can almost certainly fix the playability of your APX4-12 (unless it needs a neck set), a guitar tech based in Walderslade Chatham but he is for a while touring ler kongtinong with a large sardine tin on wheels and (alas) a Rover 75 (the modern sort) but at least his Rover is the turbo-diesel with the BMW engine and has been chipped and pulls like a train. PM me when you can find your cookie and I will give you the contact details.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans credibility
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 05:12 AM

Chilled out and on holiday, thanks for asking.

Ok. Not much fun to be stalked by fools around the threads but as I take every opportunity to expose bigots zealots and porky spinners, I of course ask for it.

The new religion isn't taking off as planned to be fair, the bingo lacked leadership and no interest from those for whom our brand of faith would be a god send to spew their hatred. But you know, we have 2000 years to get it fit for purpose.

Must admit I may be going ga ga. I can't find the post Seaman Stains refers to, probably because he made it up. Akenaton thinks it genuine but I wouldn't trust him to say anything objective. In fact his subjective drivel is as bad.

Anyway, people who suffer from your observation don't write poetry for the Goofus' s of this world, nor indeed his world, wherever that is.

No. The sun is shining, my dog wants his ice cream on the promenade, the pubs open in a few hours, the earwax is softening and slowly but surely. In spite of rather than because of government, attempts are being made to deliver a more equal society. Scotland is leading the way with regard to your nearest and dearest, Grayling is trying to back down on legal aid, Hunt is finally ruffling some feathers and the Sheffield Wednesday squad looks tight and few gaps for the coming season.

If it weren't for agreeing to take on a full time job since Easter which is seeming to eat up time, I'd say Jack's god is in his heaven.

In fact, if anyone can help get the action right on my old Yamaha APX4-12 , I will have reached Nirvana.

Although Sailor Boy is still trolling and Akenaton still finding culprits for his depression and general viewpoints. Not my problem. I'm more optimistic than you, being s dirty rotten stinking capitalist and all that. .......

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 03:43 AM

I think you may have stumbled on the problem Richard....maybe we should all step back for a little while....Jack?

This is the problem with conflict on a public forum......a nice cup of strong sweet tea all round?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 03:30 AM

Mither, you seem to be getting odder, more vehement and more garrulous. Are you unwell?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 03:19 AM

Jerk. I followed your link just for you.

No. Your quote isn't there any more than it was when I checked last. Around that time I wrote a poem for Goofus and noted that you can't educate pork but you can make good crackling. Oh and I reminded Bridge of earlier silly names.

Dogs swimming across the Atlantic? You're the one who claims to be a sailor.

If anyone can see where I wrote that, can they point me to it? You see, I am only capable of seeing reality. Hidden meanings and fairies at the bottom of the garden go straight over my head

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans blood of the Messiah
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 03:10 AM

Since when did you jump at my posts Little Hawk? Don't call yourself a member of a club unless you hold the appropriate qualifications. ...

Mind you, I don't always agree with you but that's fine because these threads would be boring if everybody drank the same beer.

No. I refer to those whose prejudice has been questioned and they have an irrational quest to ridicule.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 09:04 PM

"it tends to be bigots, zealots and weird buggers who jump at my posts."

Really? Well, I must say I am honoured to be in such esteemed company! ;-D Never a dull moment...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 04:31 PM

My My My Ian. Click here.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Clapton
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 03:44 PM

I would be if I were in Carolina, but only to prepare myself for bumping into you. Although I would probably avoid Jesus freaks cos you lot make ours look inadequate.

Still having issues seeing what was put in my name. Considering I didn't type that, and cannot find it, I assume you have a delusion

To go with your other one perhaps?

Goofus. Don't make mental leaps old chap. I didn't write the second bit so your conclusion is up to your usual standards. Anyway, I just put in a good word for you as as shrink to our resident "at sea" person.   

I assume you are not capable of sorting his issues. No matter, neither am I. Or Freud.   Or my mate in The Wheatsheaf.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 03:25 PM

Yeah, the guy with the hundred names who can't even keep track of his own posts calling me weird.....

That hurts...

LOL!!

You are drinking aren't you?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 03:22 PM

No Ake, it's not the mods. Search for this string of text below. In very short order you will see the whole quote. I have to admit that while this started out funny, so clearly and openly pointing out another person's mental impairment is starting to become very sad. But no one can say he didn't ask for it and that he is not continuing to ask for it, except him maybe. But he thinks it is OK to lie to religious people even on government forms.

"starting a new religion in order"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:34 PM

Musket: "The real deal is that Scotland is going to acknowledge gay marriage before England. What wonderful open minded citizens there are up there. Makes you proud eh?"

"I am the one with the neutered dog, so why on earth would I cross the Atlantic? I do occasionally in order to remain a VP of some business interests but never to mate my neutered dog with a Jack Tar."

Maybe you answered your own question!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans hate
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 01:52 PM

By that reckoning, none of yours would remain for all to see.

The real deal is that Scotland is going to acknowledge gay marriage before England. What wonderful open minded citizens there are up there. Makes you proud eh?

Well worm, does it?



If that post existed and it had been taken down, it was possibly because it wasn't any of my ip addresses, but why anybody would wish to flatter me? After all, it tends to be bigots, zealots and weird buggers who jump at my posts.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 01:35 PM

Well Jack, It certainly sounds like Ian.....the bitterness, the lame jokes, the extreme arrogance.

I don't think anyone could make that up....I would say "the real deal".
Perhaps deleted by a passing mod with a nose for garbage?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans stupid sailors
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 12:49 PM

I read my post from 3.30am, or a few hours later in the real world.. You are not quoting from it. Seriously, I just scrolled again and I didn't put what you posted above.

I suggest you book in for a session with Goofus. He s an excellent trick cyclist.

If you can't adequately dismiss why I type, don't make things up and attribute them to me.

Anyway, bullshit merchants need to check their facts. I am the one with the neutered dog, so why on earth would I cross the Atlantic? I do occasionally in order to remain a VP of some business interests but never to mate my neutered dog with a Jack Tar.

What an odd tangent? Mind you, what an odd person doing it.....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 11:50 AM

"Where did you get that from? Or are you making things up again? "



"PM" is after the posters name on every post on the Mudcat.

I guess it would be redundant to ask if you are really that stupid.

I got it from YOU on THIS thread. You can scroll down to the time and date indicated and read for yourself. Really, you ought to try to get your personalities to talk to each other, or at least leave yourself a note when you are switching.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 11:44 AM

"it occurs to me that the concept of religion is not confined to humans."

Actually, Musket, you've stumbled on a great truth there. All of Nature salutes the sacredness and holy power of existence every day, each animal in their own fashion, some with quite dramatic forms of ritual, generally around either sunrise or sunset, depending on whether they are nocturnal or diurnal creatures. In doing this, they are behaving in a profoundly religious manner...and they're actually far more tuned in than most people are (because their heads aren't so full of extraneous stuff as ours are).

I've witnessed it many times in Nature. It's particularly noticeable with birds, coyotes, wolves, and dogs, but pretty well all animals evidence it to some extent.

And they need no Bible and no Church to do it, but they are acknowledging something quite holy by pure instinct and awareness. I think that "something" is the same thing people seek out in religion...we just dress it up in far more complex clothing, so to speak...and it's the very specific forms of clothing that you object to. ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 11:12 AM

..Mmmm..roasted dog balls...mmmmmmmm......succulent!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans tribute act
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 09:37 AM

Err.. I am confused. Is that something you wrote and I didn't read? Also, I was trying o peer into the mind of Goofus at the time mentioned on the post you refer to.

I notice it said PM on it. I have only pm'd Little Hawk in the last week or so and recall telling him I can't reply till I get back off holiday as my phone doesn't hold cookies so cannot log in.

Where did you get that from? Or are you making things up again?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 05:10 AM

You also seem to think that you have a functioning mind.

Wrong thread eh? I was quoting one of your multiple and obviously idiosyncratically uncommunicative personalities in the following post on this thread.

From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian - PM
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 03:30 AM

You think that your neutered Dog Swam across the Atlantic and molested me do you? You need to share that delusion with a medical professional. Allegedly you know some.

Don't be too hard on the dog. You seem to think that you have a functioning sense of humour. In your home apparently delusions abound!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 04:49 AM

Funny, I thought the dog buggered you. ...

Wrong thread my salty seaman. The new religion is thriving on the appropriate thread and your prediction seems to have come true. I'd be dining out on that if I were you.

As I type, I heard a slurping noise and it was my dog licking his balls. Except he doesn't have any. But still he licks them..   it occurs to me that the concept of religion is not confined to humans.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Jul 13 - 08:51 PM

"Far better that I make my points by starting a new religion in order to point out the absurdity of Jerk's contention that lack of religion is due to damage early in life and totally dismissing Akenaton as being wicked with no attempt at humour on my part."

My contention is that the vitriol that Steve heaps on the religious is probably due to abuse heaped on him.

Your problems seem to be more due to your pitiful need to have your ego stroked with pointless attention and your propensity to lie. You pick fights an hurl insults for no apparent reason than to draw attention to yourself.

Of course I fully expect you to continue pretend to misunderstand what I am saying I also expect you to continue to project your own pathologies upon me.

Go ahead, call me a dog buggering attention hog. There is nothing to stop you but your under developed conscience.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 02 Jul 13 - 08:38 PM

Always clean your ears out when you get out of the shower. The warmth and moisture softens the wax and makes it easier to remove.

I'd really be interested in what your dog has come up with thus far. My dog can only dig holes. As soon as he wakes up, I'm going to tell him he's a slacker.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Jul 13 - 02:33 PM

Well, make sure they're not GMO's....you know, there's a lot of that running around these days!.....and some are actually convinced that they ARE!!!!
.........and some idiots actually believe them!!!..You wouldn't want to get sicker would you??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans credibility
Date: 02 Jul 13 - 02:19 PM

All this concentration on vegetables. Huh.

I got to jam with my heros and you want to know the details of the vegetable with a walk on part.

That's showbiz.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Jul 13 - 01:57 PM

Little Hawk: "I've seen zuchinnis that would give you pause..."

Hey!....There are some pumpkins that would give you menopause!...or was that, 'Men on pause'...oh well...same thing......
Ya' think pumpkins should be allowed to marry?..."Hey baby, you got a nice stem there!'

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Jul 13 - 12:51 PM

I've seen zuchinnis that would give you pause. Saw one that was almost as large AS a good-sized watermelon. The sheer gravitas and silent dignity of a zuchinni that large is something to behold. I'm surprised that Roland Emmerich hasn't yet made a disaster movie about a zuchinni the size of the Houston Astrodome attacking North America and causing a lot of stuff to blow up real good! How he could have overlooked it?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Jul 13 - 12:11 PM

Fuck it...get a watermelon!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans vegetables
Date: 02 Jul 13 - 07:13 AM

The festival was in a field in Derbyshire so most likely English cucumber.

Long time go, and asking the former Mrs Musket may be fraught with danger...

The Silvo reference may help answer your question....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 12:28 PM

Was this an average size cucumber? Or one of those really gigantic ones? Was it an English cucumber? They're longer than the other kind.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 11:25 AM

Musket" Hadn't married her at that point... Fighting was fun to come, as it were....Typo due to iPad having mind of its own. Stainsby not Stainby. Grrrrrrr"

No. no. no...it's NOT the cuke that leaves the stains.......no wonder she was fighting....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket still suffering..
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 02:38 PM

Hadn't married her at that point... Fighting was fun to come, as it were....

My recollection is that my rhythm was the constant for their genius, but as it was in a beer tent..... Others may have alternative recollections.

Typo due to iPad having mind of its own. Stainsby not Stainby. Grrrrrrr

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 01:11 PM

Musket: "As this thread is about my perfection, that was my perfect day. Not through the cucumber but jamming in the beer tent with Johnny Silvo and Diz Dizley."

Oh!..Then when you were jamming in the tent you must have thrown quite a few clams, because the thread title is: " I am not perfect after all"....
or...
....maybe you were jamming that ol' cuke, and you lost the fight with your ol' lady over it!

...which would explain, 'I am not perfect' after all!

Winkin' at ya'

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 11:34 AM

Silvo was a great.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans stage props
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 03:56 AM

You'd have to appreciate the hordes of Ghengis Aykroyd and an OS Map of The Isle of Wight I'm afraid. .. Not to mention being at The Stainby Folk Festival circa 1981.

Flashback time. The late great Johnny Silvo was on stage later, picked up the cucumber, threw it to a group of admirers and said "Right shape, wrong colour. "

As this thread is about my perfection, that was my perfect day. Not through the cucumber but jamming in the beer tent with Johnny Silvo and Diz Dizley.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 01:09 AM

Musket: "...although watching him chase my ex wife round the stage with a cucumber..."

Well...she could always eat it!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 12:15 AM

That's cucumber abuse!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket again
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 03:38 PM

A matter of timing. I heard them both use it, but there again, have heard myself. I might have said sausage dog though...

So, who was first? Barker tends to be original, although watching him chase my ex wife round the stage with a cucumber brought on a sense of déjà vu.... Connolly has been around some time.....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 03:32 PM

I thought Rumpole of the Volvo was quite good.

But surely "Dachshunds with erections can't climb stairs" was not a Conolly coinage but Les Barker.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans canine attributes
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 03:07 PM

Greyhounds are particularly insensate. Mine is anyway. No brain, no pain.

Your story reminds me of Billy Connolly telling of receiving banjo lessons in Glasgow years ago. The teacher also bred dachshunds and the bitch was only allowed to mate every second season. He kept her upstairs when on heat. Connolly asked if that was wise with no gate on the stairs? He said, " Have you seen a dachshund try to climb the stairs with a hard on?"



Impotent is the most cool. Usually the cheapest anyway.....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 02:38 PM

Oh, I see. Yes, no doubt those bonds are strong.

Now, what's cooler? Omnipotence? Omniscience? Or Omnipresence? I had a Dachshund once who was quite certain about having the first 2 qualities, and constantly regretting that he did not have the 3rd. He was an ambitious little creature, bent on establishing absolute tyrranical hegemony over all in his realm...his "realm" meaning our house, our yard, and the general vicinity within earshot...a not inconsiderable realm at that, because Dachshunds have very acute hearing.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans belief
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 02:10 PM

I refer to our religion of course....

The sense of belonging is strong brother.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 12:47 PM

When you say "us"...are you referring to yourself and your shadow? Or the Greyhound, perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans truth
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 12:13 PM

That's us out then. We don't do intelligent. We are set up purely for the glorification and gratuity of the one redeemable soul lost at sea.

Apparently.

Though don't tell him.

He's impossible as it is without knowing the one true path was set up to praise him and his impotence, or omni something or other. ..

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 10:57 AM

Hmmm. I've been thinking some about it here, and have come to the conclusion that I don't have a religion as such, I have a set of questions and concerns about my life (and life in general) that strongly interest me. I'll look into any religion or group who seem to be addressing those concerns in a useful, intelligent way...or any book that seems to do the same. I'm definitely on a search for greater meaning, happiness, and inner peace, as well as greater knowledge and experience. That pretty well sums it up. I'm not interested in "the rules", I'm interested in the questions, and the various hypothetical answers to those questions. Then test them out. See what happens. See if anything changes.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans olive oil
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 10:09 AM

Start on thread Little Hawk.

The ear wax sees to be an issue brought on by some medical complaint. I never really suffered too much before. I am taking strong drops that needs be flushed through in the shower twice a day. I suppose I don't smell though...

Hearing varies but I am glad I have no gigs for a couple of weeks, either under my stage name or in folk field as Ian. My hearing is shocking. Glad I am on Holiday, which is grand. Southwold, Sussex. Perfect small coastal resort full of nice pubs and restaurants. Dog gets dragged along the beach and we enjoy the cuisine and shops.

Ok, the religion...

Mr Shaw is working on scripture etc. I am getting the troops. Dave the Gnome is our messiah and Betty Swollox has agreed to brew tea.

It started last week. It has three real adherents and one made up. It has monuments such as my credibility and Jerks's sense of shame. Anfield is a monument to the past and Hillsborough a monument to the future.

We don't do God, which makes us consistent with the previous UK government and any gaps we can make up and pretend they are real.

Wonder nobody thought of that before?




Oh.......

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 09:35 AM

Could you expound a bit on your new religion, Musket? I don't know if you're looking for any converts, but if you are, then it would help if they knew what they would be converting to. Does it include any prophets, saints, teachers, or holy books (such as Das Kapital, the Koran, Chairman Mao's Little Red Book, the Bible, the Book of Mormon, Mein Kampf, A Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Wanking for Dummies or The Fountainhead, for example?). In any case, just as a matter of interest, it would be nice to know all about your new religion. A religion, after all, is a generalized kind of world view...a general view of reality from a certain perspective, usually having an ethical and historical basis of some kind. What is yours? When did it start? How many adherents does it have? Where are its monuments and gathering places?

Oh, and how's that ear canal coming along?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans public health
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 09:16 AM

The fifties were great for being gay!

Bed and three meals a day abd what's more, get to share a cell with a potential lover. Hypocrisy abound and should you insist on your illegal disgusting habit there was always judicial castration.

We looked after war heros too. Up till the point Turing committed suicide.

Back in your compost heap, worm.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 07:21 AM

The fifties were a time of optimism..."we've never had it so good" the Tories said, but we all believed we could make it better, that we could stop war, banish nuclear weapons, compete against any manufacturing nation in the world...we believed all the lies,we thought we were special, we never thougt to question the system itself, we were the "me" generation.

Now not even the young have optimism, our greatest victory is legal rights for homosexuals who already have them and don't really want them, while the health figure continue to worsen....70 % of new hiv an syphillis cases come from 2% of the population.
The fifties weren't so bad......for homosexual health?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans decorum
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 05:10 AM

Do you not think you'd feel more at home in the '50s?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 05:00 AM

Do you pair not think that you would feel more at home on Facebook?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,musket sans shame
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 04:26 AM

I liked the one you were given once, M'UnLearned Friend.

I recall I once called you Rumpole of the Volvo...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 03:31 AM

I thought "Sailor Jerk" was an amusing coinage. A bit like Aspirant Pharoah, Primitive Tribesman, Mither, Fugitive from Sanity, and so on. Juicy Brucie is not so creative but there is history to that name. Then there are Fluffy One, Saint Eliza the Mother Superior, and more. Go on, have some fun!

San Serif.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 03:30 AM

Mind you I have had some decent discussions in the past on the BS wavelength. Nice when people give opinions rather than preempt opinions of others or dismiss large sections of society for being different.

I'm not bigoted but. ... (Sorry, every comic on Dave channel must have copyrighted that line.)

I suppose one problem is when you are either misquoted or have things attributed to you that are false, your natural reaction is to throw it back.   Jerk puts three statements to my name above that are wrong, and he either knows they are wrong or I have been dismissing when I should have been careful, as I am not qualified to deal with his issues. Not sure which it is. Ironically, that could be the biggest insult I have laid on him yet.

Far better that I make my points by starting a new religion in order to point out the absurdity of Jerk's contention that lack of religion is due to damage early in life and totally dismissing Akenaton as being wicked with no attempt at humour on my part.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 03:04 AM

Well. Gosh. Err..

This must be what Americans call analysis.   Flattered by all the attention and all that.

I suppose if I started hating queers and bought a tambourine I could even find new virtual friends through Mudcat! I might find some who aren't of simian extract who can understand the odd serious point amid the pointing at absurdity?

Anyway.

Roses are red
I am just larking
About on my keyboard
And Goofus is barking

Jack makes the mental leap from me advising people that their names are public to thinking I am ordering him not to use it. Which he then does, as I would expect from a childish idiot.   Although saying he can do the mental leap stunt is a compliment of sorts. Still, at least he can hide behind his moniker when coming out with taunts, saying that being rational is a sign of abuse or bad religious experience.

Akena... no, fuck giving him credence or excuse to spew hatred.

The good professor needs a walk and my ear drops need putting in.

Reality awaits.

Sorry if cyber bollocks and reality get confused for some. Personally I reserve it for the music threads and understand what BS stands for. You see it is nicer to take the piss than to give credence to those who cross the line from opinion to bigotry. You can't educate pork but you can make wonderful crackling.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 11:00 PM

Musket has said that he does not have a "stance" vis a vis religion. Does anyone believe that he does not have a stance?

Musket has asked for his arguments be taken seriously a few times. But the only way to know which arguments are to be taken seriously is after the fact when he whines about not being taken seriously.

Musket is idiot enough to say this. "There are one or two people on this forum who do respect people's faith. One is called Musket and the other apparently is called Ian." I hope and pray that "Ian" is not fool enough to believe it.

Musket is as sane and stable as a brim bag full of brain damaged experimental monkeys. I don't know about Ian but he really should have more sense than to associate himself with Musket.

"Sailor Jerk."

More childish name calling. Good, did you accuse me of rising to the bait? What a sane clear minded intelligent man you are!

I don't have a wish not to be associated with my posts I really don't care. My name is not a secret. Lots of people know it. If you had asked nicely I would have told you. Hell, I might have told you if you had asked at all. Likewise, your "secret" about your name. If you had asked me to protect it I would have. But no, you ordered me to keep a secret whose only purpose was so that you could lay abuse on me and a select few others without being associated with your own words. It was a "secret" you were doing a very poor job of keeping yourself.

Polite conversation. Mmm. No. Got me there. Must be some American phenomenon.

" I call it a delusion rather than a belief because you prove time and time again to be beyond polite debate. "

Excuse me please for misquoting you. I said "polite conversation" you said "polite debate."

So you don't want to be taken seriously, except when you want to complain about it. And you hold me to a standard of "polite debate." While you mock and taunt me.

Do us all a favor. Go back to being Ian and stick to topics and modes of "debate" and "conversation" that do not embarrass you in your life.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 08:55 PM

Musket: "There are one or two people on this forum who do respect people's faith. One is called Musket and the other apparently is called Ian. Lots of examples of this for those capable of reading what they actually read.   What's more, he / I / we respect lifestyle choice."

Roses are Red
Violets are Blue,
I'm a Schizophrenic
And So Am I.

Kept My Head High
As I Stand Tall
Ahh the Cool Breeze Blowing
Cuz I Just Licked My Balls.

I Woof You!..so much!


Little Hawk: "It's the path of least love, least awareness...and MOST resistance. Because, like any form of resistance, it produces friction, heat, conflict, and warfare of various sorts."


Well, I almost hate to shed some light here...except YOU'LL 'get it'!!
Movement causes friction.
Bowel movements cause politics.
Let's take sides.
Leave Sanity out of it!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 07:34 PM

I am. 100

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 07:04 PM

And then there's nunsense...that is the kinda good advice ya get from a helpful nun...like Sister Mary Angela, a real good friend of mine over at Guardian Angels. Yessir, them nuns can be real solid types ya can rely on, providin' you avoid the nasty old ruler-swingin' types that got a chip on their shoulder...and some of 'em are like that. But not Sister Mary Angela. The pity is, you can't date 'em, not even the nice ones.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 06:55 PM

Nonesense? Hmm. Must mean "More nonsensical than ordinary garden variety nonsense. Absolutely no sense at all! You'd hear wiser commentary from a caged bird." I like it.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 06:20 PM

"Equality.

Nothing more.

Nothing less.

Nothing to do with those unaffected.

A right not a privilege."

That should be written on a sandwich board and tied round your neck!
Once again you remind me of a religious fundamentalist, with his jargon, which he is incapable of digesting.....you try to insult Sanity by likening him to a dog......while parroting your meaningless nonesense.

You understand nothing about "equality"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 06:05 PM

Musket sans sanity not perfect??????? Har! Har! Ook! Ook! Oh, man, I'm killin' myself laffin' here, damn near fell outta my chair. For Musket to say he ain't perfect is like Al Capone sayin' he ain't kind-hearted! It's like Pol Pot sayin' "I am no humanitarian." It's like Richard Nixon sayin', "I'm just a teeny bit paranoid now and then, but hardly so you would notice."

I'll tell ya who is perfect. I am. Anyone who knows me can see it in an instant. I am the perfect example of an ape who knows exactly where he's goin' and why. Now, you take a checkered character like Musket, scratch his thin veneer of social respectability down to the layer of an onion skin, and whaddya find? A rank specist! A guy who thinks he's smarter than the average ape, acts like he's more credible than yer average zoo monkey, but he can't even peel a banana and do it the right way! If he was an ape, he'd be an embarrassment to the entire genus, and we'd hafta "cull" him out for the good of our race.

This bozo Musket sans whatever-the-heck is SO far from perfect that if infinity could be measured, his tragic lack of perfection would measure out at just one inch short of that on the scale.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 05:49 PM

Equality.

Nothing more.

Nothing less.

Nothing to do with those unaffected.

A right not a privilege.








So fuck off, there's a good chap.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 05:33 PM

I think it's time for Chongo to weigh in with some calm, dispassionate comments that will smooth things over... ;-)

Chongo?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 05:18 PM

"Lifestyle choice"....can mean absolutely anything that you want it to mean.....like most of your buzz words.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 04:00 PM

Or in English, got you weighed up.

There are one or two people on this forum who do respect people's faith. One is called Musket and the other apparently is called Ian. Lots of examples of this for those capable of reading what they actually read.   What's more, he / I / we respect lifestyle choice . Not that we have to respect it of course. As equal stakeholders in society nobody needs nor requires my respect.

What's up Akenaton? Worried that others are showing contempt for your antiquated hatred? Start showing the respect you claim I don't show and you never know, the world might not be so bad after all.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 02:25 PM

I used to tell gnu that I didn't believe in trolls....well it seems that in Ian we have come pretty close to the popular definition of one.... a wind-up merchant we call them up in Scotia...sad folks who get their jollies from trying to make others angry.
Ian doesn't seem to care about very much, other than sneering and cracking unfunny jokes.
One can be an atheist without disrespecting those who do believe, personally I rather admire those who are able to see something other than the eternal cycle...most of them are good people with the best of motives and the spirit they feel will touch us all no matter how dubious we are.

There is little hatred on this forum, but in Ian and a couple of others there is something festering and all are "liberals"...isn't that strange?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans blood of the Messiah
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 02:13 PM

You must apply to join our religion then Richard. May I call you Richard? You see, I get to smile more these days. Goes with the job of being a co (not deputy) Messiah.

We need a legal eagle to advise us when we discriminate against women and gay people. Akenaton has agreed to write the terms of reference and Sailor Jerk does the cut and paste citations.

I did note your "almost" but we can help you there with indoctrination classes.

Can't do much about your radical conscience though. .. pity but there you go.




Full details on the atheist thread.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 02:03 PM

You know this is VERY worrying. I'm almost getting to like Mither's posts.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 01:58 PM

What has child grooming got to do with gay marriage?

Only asking.

Sailor Jerk.

1. I never ask to be taken seriously and if I took you seriously I wouldn't insult you, I would ignore you. As it is, I enjoy seeing you try to keep your cool for a while but after a time, you rise to the bait with your "reasonable" stereotyping.

2. I have less problems than you in being associated with my posts. I was pm'd with your name the other week but I respect your wish not to be associated with your posts. After all, they are a bit embarrassing to say the least. ...

3. Polite conversation. Mmm. No. Got me there. Must be some American phenomenon.If it nmeans questioning and ridiculing people for not sharing your spiritual hobby and looking for skeletons in people's closets for not having group delusion, then my response is quite polite really. You insult the majority of people in theWWestern world and expect earnest debate? Im doing you a bloody favour.

Anyway, atheism is now a religion. The Right Rev. Shaw and I have just started it, as you know.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 01:44 PM

No offence taken ghilli mhor....I enjoy debate, you simply misunderstand my stance on this.

As i said earlier its about a much wider issue than homosexuality, but the "gay marriage" controversy is an excellent example of how government by media works and how freedom of speech can be attacked in an Orwellian fashion.


It has become a crime to call a spade a spade, we see it in the child grooming cases in England and the cyber spying by our governments, which has recently been expose by Mr Snowden.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 01:17 PM

Yeah, I understand that, and it's fine with me.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 01:03 PM

This is a big issue for us and cause for celebration.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 12:59 PM

Well then, have a lovely evening, gillymor. ;-) Most of the gay friends I have are musicians, but I hardly even noticed they were gay, because it's not an issue.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 12:55 PM

"By logical deduction, Little Hawk has given up on the likes of me then. "

Given up on? You change your name so that your posts here won't be associated with you in the real world, constantly mock people and go for the cheap and unfunny jokes in what you call "polite conversation" and demand to be taken seriously.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Ian Mather is mentally ill. But Droopy Musket certainly is.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 12:52 PM

Tonight I'm going to a party hosted by a couple of gay friends of ours. We will celebrate the recent Supreme Court decisions on DOMA and Prop 8 with food, drink, song, tune playing and general merriment. I'm sure no one there will feel like a dupe of American Imperialism or in need of federally funded psychological repair.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 12:32 PM

Hmmm. I'm going to re-phrase that last sentence.

It's the path of least love, least awareness...and MOST resistance. Because, like any form of resistance, it produces friction, heat, conflict, and warfare of various sorts.

We have things that unite us and things that divide us. We have things in common and things that are not in common. The former outnumber the latter by a wide margin...yet most people look not to what unites them with others, but to what is different in others, and they fight about it. That's the path of war, and it misses the point of life entirely, because what we have in common vastly outweighs the things that divide us.

If Sunnis and Shiites could see this, for instance, their religious quarrel would be ended. If Catholics and Protestants could have seen it, they could have saved themselves hundreds of years of bloody warfare. If Americans and Russians could have seen it, they could have saved themselves trillions of dollars of unnecessary confrontation. If people on this forum could see it, they be a lot kinder to each other.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 12:09 PM

No, I haven't given up on the likes of you, Musket. ;-) Hardly. There is none of us here that approves of bigotry. But who among us here is willing to examine himself for traces of it instead of just hunting traces of it out in others?

It is my contention that virtually all human beings have some traces of bigotry lurking in their thinking...but they are normally completely unaware of it...because they are so busy searching it out in others. It makes them FEEL good to find it in others! (because they then feel morally and mentally superior)

To put it another way: we're all unreasonably prejudiced toward someone, and not necessarily for any good reason, but usually simply out of our own ignorance.

You can't improve other people by constantly carping and criticizing them. You can improve yourself by lessening your own negativity toward other people...and improving yourself is your one real job in this life, in my opinion. I apply this advice to me as well as to you or anyone else, and in the same measure....and I work at it.

There are passages in the Bible...and in many other great religious and philosophical texts from many different cultures...which address this very problem, because it's an absolutely vital one in human development. The one from the Bible says in effect, "instead of going on and on about the bit of dust you noticed in the other guy's eye, have a look at the plank that is stuck in your own eye".

Good advice. Whether or not you are religious. I repeat, you can't improve or change other people by telling them how "bad" they are...you can only irritate them, depress them, anger them, possibly make them really hate you after awhile...but you can improve yourself by better understanding your own negativity and thereby changing yourself, and that's your one real job in this life.

This escapes most people. They spend their whole lives trying to improve everyone else instead...and collecting "enemies" to fight with. This enables them to be "right" all the time, and never engage in any self-criticism...and they like that. It's the path of least love, least awareness...and least resistance.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans imperfection
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 11:46 AM

By logical deduction, Little Hawk has given up on the likes of me then.

I tried seeing Akenaton as fellow human but you know what? Fuck him. His only virtue is consistency and perhaps lack of shame. I am sure many share such views but have the decency to keep it "up there."

Trying to understand the other fellow and reason with him has been tried before I guess. Lord Halifax had a go if my history books are correct.

Little Hawk. You are asking people not to stereotype when they are pointing out stereotyping as an issue. Just think on will you? I know you try to be the real you on these threads and I am far more outspoken than normal but believe me, I don't tolerate intolerance in any sphere and the weasel behind Akenaton is not a nice person. He is quick to point out my name whilst keeping his hidden.

There again, I suppose I have nothing to be ashamed of. I don't expect people to agree with me but neither do I accept bigotry as a view. It is no more and no less than personality disorder.

He once asked me how I slept at night. No shame see? Yep. Classic personality disorder.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 11:28 AM

gillymor - You are leaping to the usual false conclusion that people you think you disagree with about something MUST believe in every kind of horrible and hateful and extremely weird thing that inhabits your anxiety closet! ;-D Not so. If you got to know the people you are stereotyping in this hyperbolic fashion, you would find out that just like you they believe in: science, freedom, equality, justice, fairness, virtue, kindness, reason, logic, and every other kind of good thing which you believe in....which virtually ALL of us believe in.

Trust me. It is so. Your eagerness to grossly stereotype others in a way that allows you to make facile quips about things like "tinfoil hats" (what a dreadful cliche'!) is leading you far astray my good fellow. It sounds rather like Goebbels talking about the "eternal Jew" when you do that.

Try to see others as complete human beings quite similar to yourself when you talk to them. It helps.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Newton
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 10:57 AM

No. You don't understand you are having this conversation. Not the same thing my old teapot.

I'll let the good professor explain.

Ready boy?

Woof!

Off you go. Don't forget Newton' s bucket.

Woof! Woof! Grrrrrr. Woof!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 10:49 AM

Musket sans Newton: "(I don't believe I am having this conversation.)"

You only need to turn out of the tangent if the reference (your weird planet) remains stationary which it can't....."

As per aforementioned, is that turn to the right or left....otherwise Newton's theory might be a smashing experience....or GFS's theory says.."Snap now, and avoid the rush!"

"(I don't believe I am having this conversation.)"

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 10:41 AM

gillymor: "If you guys could quit gazing at your navels through your assholes long enough you'd be able to experience the joy of witnessing a large section of the American populace moving slowly from villification and criminalization toward social and legal equality."

Yeah, now we can hate Jews, Christians and Islam, and disregard and vilify science, too!!..Whippeee! We're arriving somewhere near your location, somewhere between 'utopia' and your upper colon!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Newton
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 10:40 AM

(I don't believe I am having this conversation.)

You only need to turn out of the tangent if the reference (your weird planet) remains stationary which it can't.   Hence what appears straight is at least logarithmic which of course describes a parabolic trajectory.

(Shit. I'm slipping, need to check I have a name badge or I'll not be allowed out. .. (

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 10:34 AM

Hey, Little Hawk and posted Exactly at the same time...we must be harmonious with.....

String Theory

The starting point for string theory is the idea that the point-like particles of elementary particle physics can also be modeled as one-dimensional objects called strings. According to string theory, strings can oscillate in many ways. On distance scales larger than the string radius, each oscillation mode gives rise to a different species of particle, with its mass, charge, and other properties determined by the string's dynamics. Splitting and recombination of strings correspond to particle emission and absorption, giving rise to the interactions between particles. An analogy for strings' modes of vibration is a guitar string's production of multiple distinct musical notes. In this analogy, different notes correspond to different particles.

In string theory, one of the modes of oscillation of the string corresponds to a massless, spin-2 particle. Such a particle is called a graviton since it mediates a force which has the properties of gravity. Since string theory is believed to be a mathematically consistent quantum mechanical theory, the existence of this graviton state implies that string theory is a theory of quantum gravity.

String theory includes both open strings, which have two distinct endpoints, and closed strings, which form a complete loop. The two types of string behave in slightly different ways, yielding different particle types. For example, all string theories have closed string graviton modes, but only open strings can correspond to the particles known as photons. Because the two ends of an open string can always meet and connect, forming a closed string, all string theories contain closed strings.

The earliest string model, the bosonic string, incorporated only the class of particles known as bosons. This model describes, at low enough energies, a quantum gravity theory, which also includes (if open strings are incorporated as well) gauge bosons such as the photon. However, this model has problems. What is most significant is that the theory has a fundamental instability, believed to result in the decay (at least partially) of spacetime itself. In addition, as the name implies, the spectrum of particles contains only bosons, particles which, like the photon, obey particular rules of behavior. Roughly speaking, bosons are the constituents of radiation, but not of matter, which is made of fermions. Investigating how a string theory may include fermions led to the invention of supersymmetry, a mathematical relation between bosons and fermions. String theories that include fermionic vibrations are now known as superstring theories; several kinds have been described, but all are now thought to be different limits of a theory called M-theory.

Since string theory incorporates all of the fundamental interactions, including gravity, many physicists hope that it fully describes our universe, making it a theory of everything. One of the goals of current research in string theory is to find a solution of the theory that is quantitatively identical with the standard model, with a small cosmological constant, containing dark matter and a plausible mechanism for cosmic inflation. It is not yet known whether string theory has such a solution, nor is it known how much freedom the theory allows to choose the details.

One of the challenges of string theory is that the full theory does not yet have a satisfactory definition in all circumstances. The scattering of strings is most straightforwardly defined using the techniques of perturbation theory, but it is not known in general how to define string theory nonperturbatively. It is also not clear as to whether there is any principle by which string theory selects its vacuum state, the spacetime configuration that determines the properties of our universe (see string theory landscape)."


Or was it merely co-incidence????

Yo-ho!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 10:29 AM

Ah yes, the tinfoil brigade forms ranks. If you guys could quit gazing at your navels through your assholes long enough you'd be able to experience the joy of witnessing a large section of the American populace moving slowly from villification and criminalization toward social and legal equality. I feel sorry for you tiny little folk.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 10:18 AM

Musket: "A tangent can lead to a parabolic trajectory which in turn can give an elliptical orbit."

It can....but you need to turn out of the tangent..otherwise you end up 'lost in space'...which pretty much describes your position, and location...What's even worse, is when you don't know your 'right' from your 'left'...they can be confusing, especially when you are in a spin.
True story.
Hope you get your bearings...... but then, maybe you're just on a trip! ...(enjoy!)

gillymor: "Congratulations, Ake, through some unsupportable assertions and twisted reasoning you've managed to wed your hatred of homosexuals to your hatred of capitalism."

Shit why not?...Don't you believe that homosexuals and capitalism have the right to marry?....you must be a capithomophobe!...hey, if you pronounce the 'th' together, you even get a lisp!..or you can pronounce them separately...equal rights, right?

This was not a 'paid political message'...........

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 10:18 AM

Well, the mere mention of the subject has driven you chaps to the ramparts of accusative hyperbole once again, I see. Works every time. And this is what the system which rules over you (or should I say "us"?) anticipates and relishes. Divide and conquer is the time-honored strategy of Empire.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 10:08 AM

Yeah, it was harsh because I kind of like the poor, misguided crackpot. Once again, no offense, Ake.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans equality
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 10:01 AM

Male to male sex is not equal to male to female sex for obvious reasons eh?

And what obvious reasons are those then?

Oh. There aren't any. So to say it and then claim you don't hate gay people?

Perhaps you just have a hang up about sex. Speak to Goofus. He always has psycho mumbo jumbo to hand when anyone professes personal inadequacies.

Gillymore. Your post was not harsh. This one is the real McCoy.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Karl Marx
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 09:44 AM

I do though.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 09:24 AM

Ake, my last post was a bit harsh. I stand by it but I mean you no ill will.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 09:13 AM

Sorry Big Gamie.......I do hate Capitalism, but not homosexuals, so your kind wishes are completely undeserved. :0(

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 07:34 AM

Congratulations, Ake, through some unsupportable assertions and twisted reasoning you've managed to wed your hatred of homosexuals to your hatred of capitalism. Must be very convenient for you.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 05:53 AM

There is a much more important issue behind the "Gay Marriage" debate an issue which i have yet to see properly discussed here.

"Equality".....this is the word used by many to further the political agenda that Little Hawk has mentioned.....Homosexuality, despite the dangers, promiscuity and risks which are documented by the health agencies, is of little or no importance in the great scheme of things, as it only affects a tiny proportion of the population.
However, the use of the word "equality" to validate any type of behaviour which is popular in the media (Murdoch's papers are virulently pro "Gay Marriage") is hypocritical when the whole of Corporate Capitalist society is based on extreme inequality.

Male to male sex is patently not "equal" to male to female sex for obvious reasons and the "Gay Marriage" campaign is in fact a bid for conformity and normalisation of behaviour that the vast proportion of human beings regard as repugnant.

"Equality" should never be used as a smokescreen to the very real crimes and impediments to happiness and fulfillment which are endemic to this money orientated system.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans physics
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 03:59 AM

Goofus. A tangent can lead to a parabolic trajectory which in turn can give an elliptical orbit. That way I don't have to spend quite so long near your planet.

Which is a good thing, given your take on things.

Isn't it boy?

Woof!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 03:02 AM

Oh shit, there goes the neighbourhood.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 12:37 AM

Musket: "Goofus thinks preference can be"cured." That is disgusting."

'Cured'??..Those were words stuffed into my posts by Don....but I WILL say, that preferences can be changed.

Musket: "Right. Onto Goofus.   I give up. I don't have enough rocket fuel to orbit his planet."

It's not the fuel, but you can't be off on a tangent, and expect to orbit.

Little Hawk: "I doubt that being gay has much to do with genetic programming. I think it probably has more to do with subtle psychological factors based on early childhood experiences than anything else."

Ditto!....At least there is scientific proof to back that up! The other notions are merely a cross between speculation and wishful thinking....and backed by agendas, politically driven and funded... and that's a fact!

Little Hawk: "Well, I've actually had phone conversations with Gfs, know the man in real life to some extent, and he's a very bright, reasonable person...very talented musician...and I have no reason to believe he hates gays in the least. I think he feels that politicians are using gay issues to their own advantage these days for quite cynical reasons, and I think the same. We live in a gay-obsessed era. It's much ado about almost nothing, in my opinion. Gays are something I don't worry about at all, in themselves, I see them the same as I see other people (judge them strictly on their individual behaviour TO others), but I do worry some about how various gay-related issues are being used to push people's buttons, divide people against one another, and drive political agendas and snag votes at election time. Going by what GfS has said in a few hundred posts on the subject, I think that's what concerns him too."

'Cynical reasons'...let me put a couple forth for you....if a religion, any of them, disapprove of homosexuality, for reasons that have NOTHING to do with hatred or bigotry, that said religion, will have open season, on people accusing them of being hateful bigots, therefore belittling that said religion...who by their nature, are 'in competition' with a global government, whose ambition is to reign supreme.
This too, will pass...............................but not after a lot more needless bloodshed, chaos and persecution, that we thought we had evolved past!
........and the sad thing about it is, the very people promoting their 'equality' also deny them medical/psychological help. Now that ain't TOO equal is it?...after all, you can't treat something that the politicians have unilaterally decided ain't there, now can you?..but what the hell, the IRS is going to administer our 'healthcare', too...Great job, boys and girls!!!
The 'so-called liberal' stooges seem to be walking backwards toward the goal they THINK they are against!.. But then, the government always knows best, don't they?

Hey Little Hawk, Thanks for the flowers....
I think I'm going to grab a bite..I'm hungry...where in the hell did I put my GMO food??.....Shit, can't find it..box was empty..I think I'll eat the box..it's got more nourishment!.


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans imperfection
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 05:03 PM

Join the club

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 03:59 PM

I can be a perfect asshole when I put my mind to it .. so i guess I am perfect

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 02:22 PM

LOL!!! And rightly so! Banjo players are a scourge that MUST be driven from our midst forthwith!

"Who are they relying on to ensure they sell their stories to?"

Whoever is foolish enough to get sucked in.

"Gay issues are only issues because Murdoch & co prey on people's fears..."

Correct. The only thing is, I think the more aggressive spokesmen on both sides of the issue are playing on people's fears...but from diametrically opposite positions. That tends to happen with most volative issues in this world. The cranks, scaremongers, and demagogues get the most airtime by playing on people's fears, hurling dreadful accusations, and generally raising just as much hell about it as they possibly can. Meanwhile, the average human being is just trying to live his life in peace.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans media interest
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 02:01 PM

Exactly. But who are they pandering to?

Who are they relying on to ensure they sell their stories to? Gay issues are only issues because Murdoch & co prey on people's fears and inbuilt mistrust of something different.

It'll be banjo players next, mark my words.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 01:51 PM

Well, when I was speaking of a gay-obsessed era, what I meant was this: That the politicians, the news media, and the entertainment media are obsessed with gay issues at the present time. It's in style to obsess about gay issues right now. In awhile it'll be something else.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans dog track etiquette
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 12:48 PM

Little Hawk. I have not had the pleasure of Goofus on the phone so I can only weigh his opinions on the basis of his writing. Gay obsession may be widespread but in Victorian London, a night out with the wife could include paying to stare at the lunatics in Bedlam. Any obsession with lifestyle choice says more about the person with the obsession rather than the subject matter.

Sailor Jack. Either someone is posting in your name or your statement above is, to use your new found word, bollocks. You may have quoted a few "famous atheists" but then show your ignorance by making a mental leap connecting those people with anybody who does not share your delusion. I call it a delusion rather than a belief because you prove time and time again to be beyond polite debate.

I don't need to question your stance, just ask people to read your posts. That way we can skip to the name calling and laughing at you rather than with you.

Anyway, isn't it about time you started another thread lumping all rational people as militant atheists ? We haven't had one for a while. In the meantime, this is a thread about earwax as I recall. Far more interesting than the Carolina crackpot.

Oh, by the way. Ian Mather. Ian Mather. Ian Mather. Satisfied?

Seaman Stains, Seaman Stains Seaman Stains. So am I.

Zzzzzzzzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 11:42 AM

No sir you are certainly not perfect.

I have not and do not ridicule "people" for not sharing my beliefs. I have rubbed a few noses in their own ridicule and quoted famous scientists and atheists in doing so. This thread makes me wish that Ian Mather had been trained by a famous greyhound breeder "Friday's Mather" would be a good and suitable name for him but I think that "Droopy's Musket" might be better.

If Doctor Mather had been raised as racing dog, imagine how polite and demure he would be. But of course most of us would settle for him being as housebroken as his dog.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 10:56 AM

I thought you would. ;-)

Well, I've actually had phone conversations with Gfs, know the man in real life to some extent, and he's a very bright, reasonable person...very talented musician...and I have no reason to believe he hates gays in the least. I think he feels that politicians are using gay issues to their own advantage these days for quite cynical reasons, and I think the same. We live in a gay-obsessed era. It's much ado about almost nothing, in my opinion. Gays are something I don't worry about at all, in themselves, I see them the same as I see other people (judge them strictly on their individual behaviour TO others), but I do worry some about how various gay-related issues are being used to push people's buttons, divide people against one another, and drive political agendas and snag votes at election time. Going by what Gfs has said in a few hundred posts on the subject, I think that's what concerns him too.

I doubt that being gay has much to do with genetic programming. I think it probably has more to do with subtle psychological factors based on early childhood experiences than anything else. Whether it is innate to a person's makeup or not from the beginning, though, I can't say for sure. In any case, I have no particular objection to it. Why would I? It doesn't threaten my life in any way.

Let's put it this way: if you had a society where gay relationships or bisexuality were considered "the norm", then I think you'd find that most people would freely engage in gay relationships and bisexuality without thinking to question it at all....and that would have nothing to do with genetic programming. It would have to do with culture. If people think of something as "normal", then they will mostly choose to do it without a second thought. If they think of it as "abnormal", they will flinch away from it in most cases (unless they are in a very rebellious state of mind).

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans canine attributes
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 04:50 AM

As for small kestrels. Don't get me started. ....   







I am now going to try to understand the philosophy of gay hatred.   Ok. Done it.   Oh SHIT its worse than I expected.

Right. Onto demeaning people for not sharing a particular Creed.   Nope, that's just as bad.

Right. Onto Goofus.   I give up. I don't have enough rocket fuel to orbit his planet. Mind you, compared to the other two he seems happy with his lot.



I like light hearted threads. I still get an excuse to shout a lot.   What's better, I don't have to put up with such crap in the real world. I know and meet with many many people in my world and rarely do any have the bad manners to spout the drivel we see here, especially when it is trying to accuse me of intolerance.   Reading Akenaton trying to lecture me.... Little Hawk, your comments are well put but I don't think this is two sides of the same coin.   In fact your decision to join in the shit slinging is commendable. I find it cathartic in fact.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 06:08 PM

Now, lads....

You're assuming some very bad things about your customary "opponents" that are extreme stereotypes, and are probably not true. A little less heat and a little more willingness to actually listen to what other people are saying and genuinely attempt to understand their concerns would do wonders.

On the other hand, your bickering does provide a certain form of cheap entertainment on a slow day, I must admit...and I know that there's probably nothing I could possibly say to get you to stop doing it....so...what the hell...

Have at it, ye poxy swine! Do your worst, you knaves, varlets, and cutpurses, and the Devil take the hindmost!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 05:22 PM

1. I ain't no liberal and never tried being one.

2. I can disagree and respect as well as anyone.

3. Don't judge a book by its cover unless the book is called "Why I exhibit prejudice. "

You can disagree with someone's choice of football team, prefer alternatives in music or choice of religion including no religion.

But you don't disagree with murder, you don't disagree with bigotry, you don't disagree with intolerance. You state it is wrong. You refuse to give it credence. You deny it the respectability of debate.

Like it or lump it, you repeatedly state an opinion that goes beyond respectability. You exhibit a preference for not respecting the equal rights of people based on their preferences of partners in love. Goofus thinks preference can be"cured." That is disgusting. Full stop.

Jack the Sailor finds excuses to ridicule people for not sharing his delusion.

Respect? Earn the fucker.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 01:55 PM

I like to get on with people Ian... You make a habit of sneering at others, name calling, and being generally dismissive of my friends.

If you were a real liberal, you would want to engage in debate, but you believe that debate on certain subjects only lends "respectability" to your opponent....you wish them to be silenced...you are the antithesis of liberalism, this is what makes you look small, not anything I might say.
Sanity and Jack are both as intelligent as you, perhaps more so, yet you continuously attempt to treat them as idiots because they dont always agree with you.

No one is perfect, but if you want to be respected as a fair minded individual, you should have a long hard look at your attitude to other members of this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 12:54 PM

Coz we got higher priorities in mind than that, Roscoe. That's why. Stuff you ain't never even thought of. Ya know what? You are gettin' soooo small in my view of things that it's like lookin' at you down the wrong end of a telescope, know what I mean?

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans the good professor
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 12:38 PM

Dogs sniff the stuff but chimps fling it.

I can make chimps look small. You guys have been around years yet never invented picked quail eggs or iPads. Why is that?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 12:35 PM

Hey man, I just complimented him on his post...too bad, if that offends your attempts at feeding a bias against him. It was a cool post from him.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 11:45 AM

If tryin' to make other people look small had the desired effect, but mainly on the one doin' it, mosta you would be microscopic by now. ;-D Ook! Ook!

- Chongo

p.s. I never liked dogs much. They bark at me for some reason.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans the good professor
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 02:54 AM

You sound surprised Goofus. I thought your conversations with him, you would have learned a little about his past.

As Akenaton agrees (whilst trying as ever to make me look small) , the names are unique. The extra details he supplied are available on most greyhound sites. My little boy did have a short but successful racing career and was worth a bob or two in his Ireland days. Of course I never knew him then.

Ex racers make excellent pets and come fairly well house trained. They are not always used to homes though and take time to become fully domesticated. He is 6 years old and only last year learned how to play for playing sake, seeing a game of chase in the garden as something he starts rather than me and not feeling he is in trouble.

I suppose the sad bit is the advice from the rescue trusts not to allow them loose in public places as they are trained to see small furry creatures as prey. There is evidence on the RSPCA website to suggest some are trained with live bait, sickening but where money is concerned, not surprising.   Luckily, he has a very large garden to run in and his walks on a lead are long and often.   Otherwise his hobbies include sleeping and farting. He also steals paint brushes and wine corks to chew on.

Earlier this morning on our hols, the beach was empty so he did get a good run. The rescue trusts do say they don't need much exercise. I assume this is to not put people off adopting. Funny though that the more he gets the better he is...

The best thing about greyhounds is that they are non judgemental. He even goes up to gay people for a fuss.   I take it yours do too Akenaton?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 02:42 AM

I used to be conceited...but now, I'm just perfect!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 10:48 PM

I have a vague memory of trying to be still while the missionary friend of my parents used a half-straightened paper clip to dig what ended up being about half a cigarette out of one of my ears (felt like he got it from halfway down my neck!) that had gotten in there when I got walloped in the waves at the beach when I was little and we were in West Africa without access to mod cons...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 09:48 PM

Yeah, very cool. It's like this with Dachshunds too, but Dachshund races aren't quite such a highbrow affair.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 06:50 PM

Well I'll fucking be!

What a cool post!

Thank you on behalf of all of us!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 06:05 PM

LH....as Ian appears to know as much about greyhounds as he does about politics or social issues, perhaps I can answer your question.

Greyhound breeding kennels often use a prefix such as "Droopy's", "Ballymac", or "Friday's" on most of the pups they produce to advertise their origin...They then add a second part to the name to designate the particular hound.....like "Droopy's Rocket", "Ballymac Pride" or "Friday's Touch".
A "touch" is greyhound parlance for a winning bet.....almost always contrived by devious means! (presumably thats where Ian comes in) :0).

Friday's Touch was a fair beast in his racing days....in fact he is quite closely related to two of my own dogs through his dam line.
I use the "Slaneyside" breeding and the dogs grand dam and great grand dam were from "Slaneyside stock".

Friday's was just under open class as a racer, but even so, was much classier than his owner!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 05:30 PM

Dunno. That was his racing name. We adopted him from a charity shelter for retired racing greyhounds. I suppose, like horses, each racing name must be unique.

Ex racers make excellent pets. He is timid and took over a year to come out of his shell. I doubt his treatment was much better than the press stories about how racing dogs arettreated so no wonder it took so long. No matter, he has a humane loving family and a hoard of admirers now. He plays second fiddle only to my granddaughter in my affection.

All this AND he has Goofus weighed up. Not bad for a sight hound eh?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 05:21 PM

He sounds like a classic canine of the better bred sort. ;-) Why do they call him "Friday's Touch"?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans canine attributes
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 05:00 PM

Ah. Back from a nice evening of pub followed by a nice restaurant. Adnams of course. Then at the restaurant, smoked sea trout with samphire followed by guinea fowl two ways, slow roast and confit.

Ok. Back to silliness.

Yep. My greyhound, known on Mudcat as the good professor, in racing circles as Fridays Touch and the Musket household as Rio is bloody intelligent actually. He is top dog and no mistake. Ten mins from now, he will be strutting round Southwold whilst I carry his shit for him in a bag.

Politics is complicated for him. Born in Kilkenny, raced in Dundalk, his take on life is Irish to say the least but the gravy bone lobby has his vote, as does the campaign to allow dogs to fart without being kicked out from the comfortable fireside rug whilst we are trying to watch telly.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 04:47 PM

"I bet he [the dog] never worries about politics and identifies with no political party whatsoever, for instance."

If his dog is anything like any of my dogs were, then the dog supports trash dumps, garbage days and leftovers. Find a party that speaks to those topics and that's who the dog votes for. Or the nearest person eating darned near anything.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 01:32 PM

Musket is his dog.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 01:25 PM

"Who needs reality when I can find comfort in my delusion?" You've just described most of the people in the world, religious or not!

But I think it's time we heard from your dog, Musket. ;-) He's probably less delusional than 98% of humanity is. I bet he never worries about politics and identifies with no political party whatsoever, for instance. And he probably ignores utterly arbitrary conventions like borderlines drawn on maps, and is unfazed by nakedness in public places.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,musket sans Mr Simpson
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 01:13 PM

He isn't off his game through The Musket Play With Yourself in a Day songbook, but from adopting his father in law's politics. ....












That far, just that little distance from satire.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans the good professor
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 12:56 PM

Hi Goofus!

The good professor. .. naw. He can tell you himself. ..

Can't you boy?

Woof!

Ok. What do you want to say to Goofus?

Woof! Woof! Grrr....   woof!   Woof! Woof!

There boy, dont get too excitable. Have a gravy bone. You can play with Goofus another day. Yes, that's right. You are both barking...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:57 AM

akenaton: "Be very sure that they remove the correct cotton ball."

Come on now, Akenaton, it's not brain surgery!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:47 AM

You wonder why it never sprouted, olddude?

(I was going to make some snarky remark, Dan, but couldn't do it to you :) Love ya)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:38 AM

I've wondered why Martin Simpson's been off his game of late. Question answered.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: olddude
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:28 AM

I will dig it out fer ya with my fishing knife. Here is a true story, When I was a kid 10 years old we lived next to a RR. They use to park train cars full of corn or wheat sometimes and my cousins and I would jump into them .. lots of fun. When I was 23 years old I had a really bad ear infection. The doc cleaned my ear and yup - A big grain of corn came out. That thing was in my ear for 13 years and I never knew it ... Wonder why it never sprouted

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans wax
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:20 AM

Not perfect yet. Got some drops and an invite to go back next week.

Still, I am perfect in other ways all the same. I support the best team in the world, my singing is pitch perfect and Martin Simpson watches my guitar work on utube for inspiration. God is in his heaven and the pubs here are open all day.

Hallelujah

Who needs reality when I can find comfort in my delusion? (The bit about the pubs is bang on the button though. Not many places in a small town where people an congregate and talk bollocks. Just pubs and churches.)

Playing to the crowd in case an onlooker wonders what this is about....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:02 AM

Van Gogh... reflecting on his judgmental error

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans bravery
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 07:50 AM

To paraphrase Les Barker, on the subject of Van Gogh..

Drinking Adnams leads to tears
I can preach I can preach
Drinking Adnams leads to tears
I can preach
Drinking Adnams leads to tears
Cos it rots away your ears
And the parts that other beers
Cannot reach.

About to go to get the lug oil sorted.

Be nice to hear the sea and seagulls in stereo.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 07:33 AM

Van Gogh never forgot anything that was said to him. It went in one ear and stayed there.

I'll get me coat...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 03:57 AM

From the title, i had hoped this thread was from Rapparree, but I realize I was just fantasizing. Back to bed, the lot of you!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 03:51 AM

Of course you can Joe. But beware, I am staying around the corner from The Adnams brewery so my capacity for beer has no limits imposed in this lovely little town.

If anyone wishes to join us, you are welcome. I especially invite any militant atheists as I am curious what you look like or sound like. Ron Davis and Seaman Stains seem to believe in them to the point of seeing them walk amongst mortals so I would love to see what makes them tick.

If either of the two above wish to turn up, they can stand on what for now is my deaf side whilst Joe and I discuss origins of ballads.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 03:24 AM

Musket, I know this divine retribution stuff is hard on you. Can I buy you a beer to ease the pain?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 02:20 AM

Ok. My little list of black ball heretics lengthens. Ron was not only on it but an inspiration for the agenda item. Little Hawk made the mistake of giving credence to him and Sailor Boy just happened to randomly press buttons on his keyboard as ever.

You are all bullying my religion I'll have you know and there are laws about that over here. Just because it doesn't have a name yet and I am having to form a coalition with a Liverpool supporter doesn't make it any less credible than any other Creed.

As for my ear, off down to the local quack after breakfast. Mrs Musket too busy laughing to use her skills and the dog is busy preparing the outline for our testament.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 11:41 PM

IF you are going to stick something in your ear you might consider using something stronger than earwax. A genius like you foiled by a poorly constructed swab? What is the world coming to?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 11:34 PM

I agree with you 100% on this, Ron. You can be a mean old coot, but when you're right, you're right. ;-) I don't disagree with people here simply based on who they are (as so many of the members here do), but rather on exactly what they say at any given time, and how they go about saying it.

And this time we happen to agree.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:19 PM

Well, lookee there, it was not my last comment.    But those who want confirmation on what I said on the new orthodoxy--and are willing to slog through an amazing amount of drivel on the Miiitant Atheist thread (and sense, once in a while, from folks like Joe) --can judge for themselves.

That's it--as Bullwinkle used to say:   this time for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:06 PM

Thread title is nice to know.   Sorry that you're the only Mudcatter who isn't perfect.

But stick around, we'll do our best to teach you.

However, "heretic religion" is not the problem, as I suspect you know.   Your and your fellow militant atheists have determined what everybody else should believe---you are the new orthodoxy (the martyr's hairshirt doesn't quite fit you), and you are not willing to live and let live, which the believers on Mudcat are willing to do.

And please note I was not the one who brought this up on your new thread. For the culprit, look in the mirror. Thread creep?:       Physician, heal thyself.



All that said, sorry about your ear problem.



And I will turn the thread back to you--this is my first and last comment.   Somehow, however, I suspected it would not be said without my participation.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 07:38 PM

I did the opposite a while back -- used one of them things but it did't have cotton on the end. Got some blood, but the doc checked it later and said there was no problem.

I replied, "What say?"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 06:24 PM

I used to be conceited, but since I stopped being that, I'm perfect.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans olive oil
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 05:56 PM

I had thought of olive oil Eliza, thanks. There was a time when it was only available from chemists after all. None at the cottage though.

Joe is on the button. Divine retribution after all. Oh... Scottish atheists are black balled too. Although the new religion (see other thread) will need some expertise in judging others.

Perhaps Van Gogh could be my inspiration?

Oh me name it is Van Gogh, lend an ear......

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 05:28 PM

I use a common match for those duties... No, not lit and not the end that lights and no wooden matches... Does a great job of getting wax out...

Actually, I tried to get my elbow in there but I think I'd have to break my arm off to pull that off...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 05:11 PM

Have you tried pouring olive oil in your ear, Musket? The cotton tip can't be stuck with superglue, just wax. Oil (warmed slightly) may flush it out fairly easily. But do try not to poke at your ear too much and inflame the inside. Good luck!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 05:09 PM

You're suggesting there's nothing between his ears but fluff, Ake? ;-)

Perhaps reverse the flow of air on a shop vac and blow it out the other side with the wand...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 05:03 PM

Might be easier to push it out the other side.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 04:51 PM

Be very sure that they remove the correct cotton ball.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 04:49 PM

Perfection is an elusive goal. Many try to attain it. Few succeed. But you, Musket...you came soooo close! I weep for your fall. (grin)

Here's a tip for next time. Rotate the cotton bud when first inserting it. You will find that when rotated one direction, it tightens more around its wooden shaft...rotated the other way, it starts to loosen some. If you always rotate it in the direction of tightening, it's most unlikely to come off when you go to remove it.

Just testing it now myself to see which direction is the right one for tightening...and.........ummm..................-----oh, shit!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 04:35 PM

The brother of a friend of mine had some ass-issues, which eventually resulted in him having a hemroid operation. In assessing the situation, my friend confided to me, "I guess nobody can call him a perfect asshole anymore"

:)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Mrs Olive Whatnoll
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 04:32 PM

I always said you was a dozy pillock, Musket. Roight, then! I stand vindicy'ted.

- Olive Whatnoll

Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 04:31 PM

Ouch!

Well, I suspect you will survive the surgery. Hope it doesn't ruin your holiday.

On the other hand, it serves you right, you heretic, you....

Cheers!

-Joe-

Subject: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans common sense
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 04:21 PM

Ok. I claim to interfere in healthcare, which I do. Also, my responsible adult is a consultant surgeon.

We are both familiar with the concept of never putting anything smaller than your elbow in your ear.

However..

Ten mins prior to setting off on holiday today I decided to a) put a cotton bud in my ear and b) retrieve it sans the cotton wool tip. It appears to be stuck to my eardrum. The GP practice near where I have rented a cottage looks like getting some work tomorrow.

As we both work in healthcare, she is so happy that I am partially deaf when she is talking at me and that day 1 shall be spent in a surgery being called a dozy pillock.

I assume this is divine retribution for starting a heretic religion on an adjacent thread. Watch yer back Steve!