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BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?

dick greenhaus 05 Jul 13 - 06:39 PM
Joe Offer 05 Jul 13 - 06:51 PM
GUEST,jts 05 Jul 13 - 07:06 PM
Bill D 05 Jul 13 - 07:16 PM
dick greenhaus 05 Jul 13 - 07:37 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 05 Jul 13 - 08:17 PM
Lighter 05 Jul 13 - 09:05 PM
Bobert 05 Jul 13 - 09:15 PM
olddude 05 Jul 13 - 09:54 PM
olddude 05 Jul 13 - 09:55 PM
dick greenhaus 05 Jul 13 - 10:50 PM
Bill D 05 Jul 13 - 10:56 PM
GUEST 06 Jul 13 - 02:14 AM
Joe Offer 06 Jul 13 - 03:04 AM
Lighter 06 Jul 13 - 08:42 AM
GUEST,Arkie 06 Jul 13 - 09:27 AM
dick greenhaus 06 Jul 13 - 09:42 AM
Lighter 06 Jul 13 - 09:53 AM
olddude 06 Jul 13 - 09:58 AM
Elmore 06 Jul 13 - 10:23 AM
olddude 06 Jul 13 - 11:16 AM
Stilly River Sage 06 Jul 13 - 11:27 AM
olddude 06 Jul 13 - 11:32 AM
olddude 06 Jul 13 - 11:39 AM
olddude 06 Jul 13 - 11:48 AM
GUEST,Stim 06 Jul 13 - 08:28 PM
GUEST 06 Jul 13 - 09:02 PM
GUEST,olddude 06 Jul 13 - 09:25 PM
GUEST,olddude 06 Jul 13 - 09:32 PM
Elmore 06 Jul 13 - 09:48 PM
Elmore 06 Jul 13 - 10:03 PM
Bobert 06 Jul 13 - 10:17 PM
GUEST 06 Jul 13 - 11:34 PM
Elmore 07 Jul 13 - 02:28 AM
olddude 07 Jul 13 - 09:56 AM
olddude 07 Jul 13 - 11:02 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Jul 13 - 04:26 PM
dick greenhaus 07 Jul 13 - 04:32 PM
Bat Goddess 07 Jul 13 - 05:13 PM
Bat Goddess 07 Jul 13 - 05:20 PM

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Subject: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 06:39 PM

I'm confused. Does anybody have the details of what was said and/or done by Deen, and when?


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 06:51 PM

Nobody can say what it is that Paula Deen said, because if they said what she said, then they'd be in trouble, too. So, we just have to believe that she said something bad.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: GUEST,jts
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 07:06 PM

She was deposed in a lawsuit by an employees lawyer and admitted to saying some strange and allegedly racist things. Such as suggesting that middle aged African waiters dress in tuxes and serve at her brother's wedding the way they did before during and after the civil war.

It is very strange stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 07:16 PM

She has told jokes and made remarks in the past using racial terms... and basically defends it by saying she was 'raised in the South' and didn't mean anything by it beyond a few unfortunate words. She seems to barely understand why anyone would take it seriously.
She has many supporters who agree with her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 07:37 PM

Did she make jokes and slurs in public? I ask, not as a supporter (I think most of her recipes are revolting), but as one who is getting annoyed by over-reaction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 08:17 PM

Kinda Kafka-esque don't you think, Joe?
I have to believe that you wrote tinged with some little irony.
I think I agree with Dick Greenhous at 7:35 PM about being annoyed by the over-reaction. And, I, not just in her case, but in many cases. To my mind the most egregious case being the crucifying of Al Campanis--a man who had done much for minorities in baseball--for an unfortunate, inelegant, inarticulate answer as to why there were so few Blacks in baseball management. Close second, Harvard faculty vote of 'no confidence' because of his comments about women and 'hard sciences' causing him to resign his presidency of the university.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 09:05 PM

In the 1980s she was robbed at gunpoint while working at a bank. Under oath, she's admitted that she used the "n-word" in describing the robber to her husband.

More recently she stupidly suggested that a wedding reception might be fun with a "plantation theme," with black waiters in white jackets. She has made similar brainless comments. None of those that I've heard, IMO, suggest ill will - just obtuseness.

It all came out because she's being sued by a former employee for creating an intolerably racist workplace atmosphere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 09:15 PM

Me???

I think that Paula Dean's apology was more heartfelt than an politicians I've heard...

I mean, I'm not a Paula Dean fan but I think she has been scape-goated here...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 09:54 PM

I agree with you Bobster. and it is her brother that is being sued .. he was the one managing the establishments not her.   Myself when someone says that was a long time ago, I am older and smarter now nuff said. Lot to do about nothing. Everyone hates that word, I hate that word and as Bill Cosby said, it can only disappear when young black people stop using it also.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 09:55 PM

When I get offended and someone says "I am sorry" I say forget it we all screw up ... wanna go fishing.   

all nuts actually


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 10:50 PM

What makes the "N-word" so much worse than the "K-Word" or the "W-Word"
or the "Q-word" or the "H-word"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 10:56 PM

"...it can only disappear when young black people stop using it also."

Well... it IS a different thing when it is used AT someone. I used to work for a Jewish family, and THEY would sometime make Jewish jokes. I didn't consider that gave me a permit to do it also.

I do agree...I'd hope ALL blacks would stop using the word, except for historical reference... but even if they did, I doubt the word would disappear anytime soon among certain folks with hateful, racist views.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 02:14 AM

She must use the same hair dresser as Tammy Faye Bakker.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 03:04 AM

"Same hair dresser as Tammy Faye Bakker" - yes, I think you're right there.

But still, I have heard nothing that I would consider to be "damning evidence." Her racist remarks seem to have been few and far between, and in the relatively distant past. But some people think she should be burned at the stake for giving recipes for unhealthy food, while concealing her own diabetes.

I dunno about that one, either. Sounds to me like what they're talking about is what many would consider to be typical Southern cooking. Sure, it's bad for you - but it really tastes good at times. I suppose I'm now paying the price for enjoying too much food that was bad for me - but I'm a big boy, and I can make my own decisions.

I get tired of people who think that everyone and everything must be perfect and absolutely according to all the rules. Then again, if Paula Deen has recently been truly racist in recent words and action, then let her burn...

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 08:42 AM

The N-word is more of a problem than the others because the others are recognized exclusively as insults. (Even when they're occasionally used jokingly among friends there's likely to be an undercurrent of unpleasant needling not even a non-ethnic insult like "asshole" doesn't convey.)

The N-word, however, was and is used both as a neutral term *and* as an especially painful insult, always depending on who, when, and how.

Words have no intrinsic and essential meaning. The only meanings words have are those that people give them - partly on their own and partly as influenced by other words and other people.

The N-word's immediate predecessor, the 17th & 18th century "Niger" (evidently pronounced "neeger") was used neutrally even by a radical thinker like Samuel Sewall when he argued for the full humanity of African slaves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 09:27 AM

I too think the Paula Deen affair has been pushed over the limit. She has in part helped to do that with her constant apologies. Agree that the damage is caused by the meaning attached to a word. The N-word, when in common usage in South and elsewhere, usually indicated the user thought of people of color as lesser beings. That is what is most offensive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 09:42 AM

Doesn't any term used to differentiate a racial, or ethnic group
present a similar problem? Why is "nigger" the only one that must be Bowdlerized with asterisks?


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 09:53 AM

> The N-word, when in common usage in South and elsewhere, usually indicated the user thought of people of color as lesser beings.

Even if the user was a person of color? All the evidence shows that it was the ordinary self-designation in black English vernacular.

The devil's in the details.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 09:58 AM

and why were they beating her up for her southern cooking when she had diabetes?   I mean people get illness. Do they blame her cooking .. that is nuts ... Not every athlete gets 5 back operations either as I did. Not every person who eats a hamburger gets heart disease. She was targeted for some reason. Maybe the food network just wanted her gone so they could get another cute little size 0 like Sandra Lee(gov cuomo's girlfriend) to show people how to eat. Go figure


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Elmore
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 10:23 AM

Without taking sides on What PD did or didn't do, I can't believe how badly, and insensitively she's handled the whole situation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 11:16 AM

Like me also, I don't care one way or the other, but the lady can cook as opposed to that Lee girl that teaches people how to make mac and cheese from a box and ... dare I say ... finger jello .. while looking good doing it .. I think that is what TV wants anymore. Giada can cook but she can't cook unless she shows a sea of cleavage while doing it. That is what they want on TV


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 11:27 AM

I speculate that there was a shakedown attempt by employees of Deen's restaurants, and when that didn't work, the lawsuit was filed. The story we are hearing now is coming via the ultra PC group called "Rainbow Coalition" that was started by Jesse Jackson, Jr. Yes, that Jesse Jackson, Jr., the one in prison. This strange pot calling the kettle black story seems to have been stage-managed by people who are more interested in making an example than in really getting justice here.

Martha Stewart was hauled through the headlines a decade ago, not found guilty for insider training, but for lying to the SEC or whoever was investigating it. She has rebuilt a leaner but still streamlined operation since then. Deen has mostly been accused of decades-old slurs when growing up in the South. The accusations have been heard - but have they been proven? I haven't followed this story closely, I don't know if the trial is still being prepared or if it is underway, or perhaps finished. As the headline on the story says - the SCANDAL continues - and scandal may have no resemblance to what is actually being said in court.

I don't have cable so I don't watch any of the Food Network program. I see Deen occasionally as a guest on network programs. I know she cooks with a lot of cream and butter. And that she has lost the weight that contributed to her diabetes. There are other stories that can be told about Deen that are more laudable than the one being told now. This will eventually pass - probably when the next scandal comes along.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 11:32 AM

I heard her talk, a guy she trusted, gave a job, got him a loan, then robbed her, put a gun to her head. Well when talking to her husband she used a racial slur. I can understand. I don't do that but I can understand that frustration. She apologies over and over and it was 1980 when it happened. She was not a "food star" . Then she gets bashed for "hiding her diabetes" there is nothing more personal then health issues. Many of us will talk about it because we want our friends advice and support. Others like my old Lawyer keep it to themselves, tell no one and we found out after he died he had cancer. How people react and handle their personal health is a private as sex with their spouse. Why did everyone bash her for not talking about her health issues. She had a show teaching southern cooking. She never said hey all diabetics eat this stuff ... all nuts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 11:39 AM

Then in the Zimmerman trial, there was a guy on TV trying to explain to Nora O'Donnald why the word "cracker" isn't a racial slur and it is ok to use it. Her response was "I most certainly think it is and I take offense to it". Ya see none of that should be used, it just creates hurt.

by the way, hope they throw the book at zimmerman


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 11:48 AM

Yup and the other so call comment about the "southern wedding" She said never happened. It was the guy suing her bother who said that. There are no other people who heard her say anything like that. Its about the money


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 08:28 PM

One thing for sure, no one is ever going to publicly apologize for anything like this ever again...


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 09:02 PM

She never apologized for anything publicly. Her original statements were part of a deposition and during her disastrous "Today" appearance, she did not utter a single apology unless I watched an edited version of it. And the person who brought the lawsuit against Deen, it might be helpful to point out, is white.

I think the accusations in the suit are true. And I don't like people saying that it was understandable that she might use a slur after being robbed at gunpoint by a black man. I was robbed at gunpoint by three black men in ski masks who made me lay on the floor first. If you think it isn't scary, try it. That was in 2003, to this day I have yet to use a racial slur when referring to these three gentlemen. You know why? Because I have black friends, neighbors and co-workers who are good people and they don't deserve my slurs. That tells me that Deen has little if any contact with black people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 09:25 PM

I didn't say I agreed with her, I said I understand itr , she was from the south and it was 30 F'in years ago .. and .. my suggestion. get armed and you won't have to worry about getting robbed at gunpoint


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 09:32 PM

by the way I watched the entire interview on the today show, she apologized over and over again. Ya wanna beat up an crying elderly lady for using name calling 30 fckin years ago .. glad you are so squeaky clean .. or maybe not. People make mistakes


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Elmore
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 09:48 PM

Elderly? Holy shit, OD. Wish I were 66 again.

o


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Elmore
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 10:03 PM

Oops. Wrong thread. Sorry


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 10:17 PM

Yo, GUEST, 9:02PM

You, apparently, aren't watching the news feeds that I have seen 'cause I've seen two different apologies and they were the real deal... No, "If I offended..." blah, blah, blah apologies...

Maybe you need to Google some and see for yourself...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 11:34 PM

>>>Ya wanna beat up an crying elderly lady for using name calling 30 fckin years ago ..<<<

Right, I'M the one that's beating her up. I'm sure she's crying over what some anonymous guest said at Mudcat. Somehow, i doubt she cares, don't you? All she did was cry about how much this lawsuit is hurting her. That's ALL she did. Wah wah wah!

Lastly, STOP making 30 FUCKING years ago sound like 1935. That was 1983. I'll go out on a limb and say that words like nigger were generally frowned upon socially by 1983.

And stop giving me this bullshit that she's from the South. I! don't! give! a! fuck! That's no kind of excuse. It just means the South is a fucking shithole.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Elmore
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 02:28 AM

Speaking as a transplanted Yankee, I have to say that the South is not a fucking shithole. This is the most beautiful place I've been fortunate to inhabit, in the 72 years of my life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: olddude
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 09:56 AM

The south and its people are indeed beautiful. And take a look at one of your pictures from 30 years ago if you think that is not a long time. And I am glad you never made a mistake .. you must be the first one ever cause I don't know anyone that said something and felt bad about saying it. And no she could have lied, said No I never said that, instead she said yes I did back in the 80's and regret saying that word. hmmmmmm   ya never screwed up, never said anything wrong at any time. Good for you .. never met someone that was that squeaky clean


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: olddude
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 11:02 AM

you know what my black fishing buddie said. Black people have survived centuries of issues, came out stronger and prouder for it. No black person gives a shit if a grandma used the N word 30 years ago. survived a lot worse.   

What a great statement I think


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 04:26 PM

The offensives comes from the racism that underlies it's use, in the present as well as past. Otherwise it'd be no more offensive than an Australian being referred to as a a "Digger".

When the racism genuinely ceases to exist the word would lose it's power to offend. Unfortunately that is likely to be quite a long time off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 04:32 PM

Does anyone here believe that it's reasonable to lose one's job as a public entertainer because of anything that was said or done in private over a quarter-century ago?


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 05:13 PM

Tempest in a teapot.

Makes you wonder if anyone has historical perspective or even is old enough to remember what the 1950s or '60s were actually like. And how conformist that era was.

I grew up in Milwaukee, a northern city that was "famous" for supposedly putting billboards down South to entice Black labor to the city. I certainly heard the word "nigger" often enough in those days, though I learned fairly early that it wasn't polite and it wasn't a good idea to use it. My father used the word (and others), although I wouldn't call him a racially prejudiced person. (Although I'm quite certain he would have been upset if I was romantically involved with a person of another race -- not just Black.) He worked with Negroes/Blacks/African-Americans...and never had any trouble with anyone based on race. He wasn't a bigot -- he just never really thought about it much. He also called some Poles Polacks, some Hungarians Hunkys, some Italians Wops, and some Jews Hebes. But usually in JOKES. People forget just how socially acceptable this was...as was smoking, thinking women didn't deserve to be paid the same as a man, believing the more a business polluted the atmosphere, the better it was for the economy, that a Roman Catholic president would be ruled by the Pope instead of the American people, etcet etcet etcet...

No it's not reasonable to lose one's job as a public entertainer because of anything said (especially in private) twenty-five or fifty years ago. Especially not when so many lies, so much hatred and so many divisive or greedy agendas are being promulgated over the public air waves without the spewers being called on it.

Just my two cents' worth...

Linn


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Subject: RE: BS: Paula Deen-Just what did she say and do?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 07 Jul 13 - 05:20 PM

Oh, and I forgot to mention, remember, too, that in 1964 Dick Gregory titled his autobiography "Nigger". As he said in the dedication, "Dear Momma - Wherever you are, if ever you hear the word 'nigger' again, remember they are advertising my book."

Linn


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