BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes

Subject: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 08:39 PM

Yesterday I listened to a German scientist on radio whose research area is the micro beads commonly found in various body washes. He said that they are plastic and therefore non-degradable and basically indestructible. He said that the American (and Canada's, of course) Great Lakes are acquiring vast stores of them through decomposing fish. He didn't mention any brand other than Johnson & Johnson's Body Wash but said they are very common. The companies that use apricot pits or other natural decomposables in their products in awareness are way ahead of the cheaper lines.

I happen to like body washes so I checked my two and they don't have micro beads; one says it has mica (which, of course, has to be mined) and the other says 'acrylates polymers'.

I looked up the AC and I'm still not sure- it says it's something like liquified rubber. I can't see that's any better than plastic. Right?

He said they don't yet know what long term effects
the micro beads will have but it can't be good. He said they use hundreds of thousands in a single product, that it is almost a powder. But they add up.

From now on I will check the ingredients list. Anyone join me on the boycott?

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 08:49 PM

I'd join you, but since I've never even thought of buying something like that, my decision would have little significance. I am appalled at the idea of people releasing plastic into the environment for no good reason.

However there's some good news: four big companies are phasing them out.

http://www.treehugger.com/clean-water/3-companies-commit-removing-plastic-beads-their-body-products.html

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 08:50 PM

My body wash is Ivory soap...or Dr. Bronner's

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: bobad
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 08:59 PM

Acrylate polymers are plastics.

Do go with Dr.Bronners - lots of good reading on the label is a bonus.

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 11:28 PM

Oh, never heard of Dr, Bronner's. It looks good, but I don't like to order online and I can't see information about retail stores that sell it.

I sometimes splurge on Peter Rabbit Shampoo and Body Wash. It is a splurge though--it's expensive, and as far as I know the only store that carries it is Whole Foods. I have a friend who is allergic to many things but can tolerate this, so I use it when I know I'm going to see her. I don't see anything on the label indicating that the ingredients are fair traded, which would be a plus, but there's a long list of things it doesn't contain.

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 11:37 PM

Thanks for the link, leenia. The last few years I have used the body wash because I like the smoothness of the skin afterward. However from now on I will make sure I watch the ingredients list. Sheeesh. It never stops, does it! What are they thinking of.I would never have guessed that companies were doing that. All that is ever evident on the labels is the low key apricot scrub promo. Seems like they would be justified in bragging about it, something like: Unlike some better known brands we use apricot pits!

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 02:43 AM

There is no established "definition" for micro beads but they have been claimed as ingredients in a number of products for decades. As a general rule, this term is used only for products that are milled, ground, chopped, or otherwise mechanically reduced to "powder" from solid materials, which may be "natural products" like apricot pits or mica, or "manufactured materials" like a variety of plastic polymers.

There are practical limits to how finely a solid material can be "ground" so the smallest of these might clog sweat pores, but are not generally at "molecular sizes."

A newer class of materials, often called "nano particles" has appeared, and at least a few cosmetic preparations have claimed to have included some of these. Particles of this kind are usually made by "building up from the molecules" by chemical methods, or by vaporizing and condensing solid materials.

Many of these nanoparticles can be made small enough to essentially "act as molecules," and in medical uses have been shown to be capable of passing through cell stoma to enter individual cells, where - in the cosmetic case - their potential effects are almost completely unknown.

As long as no specific medical claims are made, in the US there is no agency having authority to regulate either the composition or advertising claims of such products, so the consumers have no way of knowing what such stuff is going to do to them - other than what the advertising says. Even the distinction between micro- (usually not biologically active) and nano- (quite likely to affect body functions?) cannot be trusted, since advertisers use the two terms pretty much interchangeably depending on what they think will get their junk sold.

The rush to claim "nano-" stuff because it "sounds modern" is, IMO, exceedingly dangerous; but the crap that's only "micro-" on the label may actually be "nano-."

All that can be suggested is that you DO CHECK THE INGREDIENTS on the products you consider using, and believe a little less than half of it. And remember that the more extravagent the claims, the less likely you'll want to put it on (which may mean IN) your body.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 03:49 AM

Several years ago, I got a bad case of poison work while doing irrigation system repairs in the neighbor's pasture. I was on my hands and knees, digging in the mud with three cows looking up my butt....but that's another story.

So, singing fireman Dave Swann heard of my predicament, and he told me to use a product called "Zanfel" - firefighters get poison oak fighting wildfires. The price of a one-ounce tube was about forty bucks, and I'm not sure it helped. I suffered from poison oak all that summer - and I hired somebody else to put in a new irrigation system for us.

But anyhow, this Zanfel soap had those plastic pebbles in it, and scrubbing with it gave me a good scratch. I can't imagine any other way that scratching a case of poison oak would be a good thing to do, but this was terrific! I can see that those plastic beads would be a problem to the ecology, but I think those beads helped relieve my suffering that summer.


-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 04:30 AM

For poison oak the best commercial product is TECNU.
It strips the oil out. No micro beads.

For a shampoo ... became enthralled with Nivea conditioner ( diamond and pearl ) micro rinse. Purchased a case via the Phillipines. Unavailable in USA.

Over time my hair follicles became clogged.
Returned to TECNU to strip strip the oil out.

For a skin exfoliating scrub corn meal, or salt, or, Boraxo work just fine.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


TECNU reminds me of liquid lye soap. The "drinking club with a running problem" frequently is in poison oak creek bottoms (and under ground sewers and hilltop vistas.)




F

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 04:37 AM

I worked in the soaps and detergents industry for years - specifically working on product claims. Now I'm retired, I avoid expensive, branded products with fancy ingredients and buy cheap, supermarket 'own brands'. I'm not telling you this because of toxicity issues, or anything like that, but because, generally speaking, any advantages that you're like to get from the premium branding and fancy ingredients are not worth the money. At the end of the day, you need something which cleans you, smells nice and does minimum damage to you and the environment.

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 04:44 AM

What's the purpose of the beads in body washes - a scrubbing agent, or is it for scratching when you don't want to scratch?

I'm with you, Gargoyle. I prefer Tecnu for poison oak - and the price is fairly reasonable.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 05:02 AM

Here in the UK you can get products like those made by Faith in Nature which aren't tested on animals and don't contain dodgy stuff. I get them from my local wholefood co-op. I'm sure there must be similar stuff in the States, what with all those old hippies dotted around...

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 12:44 PM

"What's the purpose of the beads in body washes - a scrubbing agent, or is it for scratching when you don't want to scratch?"

They are for exfoliation, Joe. Human skin is continually flaking off and renewing itself. The theory is that if you can abrade away the skin which has already exfoliated or about to, then you reveal the newer, softer skin underneath. And, of course, the dirt comes off with the exfoliated cells.

There was a fascinating series of programmes, on British TV recently, about life in Tudor England. In those days people tended not to wash because water was scarce and and accumulating enough for normal household chores was very labour intensive. Many people just rubbed themselves down with a rough towel - hence, presumably, exfoliating and removing (most of) the dirt at the same time. There's an old joke about Elizabeth I of England, "bathing once a year, whether she needed to or not!" As the presenter of the programmes pointed out, Elizabethans wouldn't have got the joke!

Still, I'm glad that I don't live in Tudor England!

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 01:07 PM

I'm so old and so thick, I'm not sure exactly what these new-fangled things are, ie 'shower gel', 'body wash' 'body scrub' etc. I use rose-scented soap in the bath (I hate showers, we never had THEM in the 40's!) and a smaller bar of the same thing to wash my hands. The bar lasts for ages and I come up smelling of ...well...roses! Can't people see all this tripe is only there in the shops to make money? They belong in the same category as 'fabric conditioner' 'anti-bacterial spray/wipes' 'hair conditioner' 'hair removal cream' etc etc. All completely unnecessary. You won't die if you never buy them again.

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Charmion
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 01:21 PM

I have fine fair hair and dry skin, and as I get older said skin is drier and drier. About two years ago, I just stopped using shampoo -- finito, no more -- and body wash, instead using Dr Bronner's soap in small quantities on everything south of the collarbones and neither soap nor shampoo on the top end of me. I brush my hair vigorously when it's dry, and that's pretty well that.

As a result, I haven't had an outbreak of eczema in more than a year, and my hair has never looked better. And think of the money I save!

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 02:10 PM

Good for you Charmion! Our bodies don't need all this muck. I've also discovered that you can put most stuff in the washing machine with NO washing powder at all. Funnily enough, it all comes out quite nice and clean. I only use powder for really grubby things now. All these products must be ruining the planet, both in their manufacture and in their disposal after use. Even their wretched containers are a form of pollutant.

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 02:17 PM

Eliza and Charmion, if you'd ever had to work with arrogant, know-nothing p***ks in the marketing departments of these big companies you'd soon realise that it's all p**s and wind! Sorry for the bad language, ladies, but I'm glad that I've got that off my chest!

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Rumncoke
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 03:18 PM

In my extended family - Quite a large one, the use of a bath brush is usual.

It is just a fairly soft waterproof brush which is wetted, rubbed with soap or detergent lotion and then applied to the skin with varying pressure according to the sensitivity of the area. They last for decades, remove the dead skin and dirt, improve the circulation too.

Many types of marine life is starving to death due to the amount of plastic particles in the water, which they ingest and can't digest, so they clog up their digestion and starve.

The clever idea someone had a few years back where plastic carrier bags disintegrated over time resulted in massive amounts of powdered plastic entering water courses and being carried out to sea. Some coastal water became so cloudy that seaweeds and all the associated life died off for lack of sunlight.

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Joybell
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 05:44 PM

Like Eliza I don't use detergent or soap in my washing machine either. I put a small amount of eucalyptus oil in the wash if I think of it. Sometimes I boil up citrus skins and add the strained liquid. While on the subject of plastic. I can't believe the explosion of plastic wrapping on everything now. The more concientious we get about avoiding plastic bag use the more we end up with wrapping. Everything from tools, to clothing, to food. Much of it is already packaged in cardboard with plasic wrap over the top. I avoid as much as I can but it's getting harder. "Free range" chicken and pork, for example, is only available here in plastic packaging.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 08:07 PM

ChanteyLass -- if you shop at Whole Foods, ask them about Dr Bronners's soaps. They are well worth checking out.

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 10:51 PM

Aha, michaelr. It appears that my local Whole Foods does sell Dr. Bronner's products. I've never explored the health and beauty aisles, just walked in to grab the Peter Rabbit stuff that my friend can tolerate. Now I'll look for Dr. B's products, too. I hope they cost less than PR's!

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 03 Aug 13 - 03:06 AM

"Whole Foods", "Dr Bronner's" - more bullshit branding!

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Aug 13 - 04:21 AM

Joybell, it's only too true. I hate things wrapped in plastic then re-wrapped in another plastic tray etc. Being ancient, I can remember just after the War, when you bought everything loose. The greengrocer shot spuds into your old, tough canvas bag; the butcher rolled your meat in paper; bread was handed over nude; plastic wasn't to be seen anywhere. For some time now, I've been putting stuff loose in the supermarket trolley. Spuds, carrots, anything I can find unwrapped. At the checkout, it's suprisingly easy just to chuck it back into the trolley loose, no plastic bags for us! At the car, we pop things into cardboard boxes in the boot (trunk) which can then be carried into the house for putting away. The boxes go back in the boot for next time. So easy. I don't line bins with plastic bags either. I simply wash the bin out with plain water after emptying it.

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 03 Aug 13 - 05:35 AM

"Dr Bronners's soaps ..."

Anyone else out there know that soap is a 'synthetic chemical'? You synthesise it by boiling animal or vegetable fats with sodium hydroxide (caustic soda). The result is the sodium salt of a fatty acid - which is a type of detergent (i.e. a substance which solubilises oils). Don't fall for the 'natural = good, synthetic = bad' rubbish - it's mainly superstition. I bet there's a lot of you out there who don't want to hear that!

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: bobad
Date: 03 Aug 13 - 07:06 AM

I like the tingling sensation on my sensitive bits that I get from Dr. Bronner's peppermint soap.

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Charmion
Date: 03 Aug 13 - 09:37 AM

Shimrod, if you get right down to it, everything comes from nature -- even the dreaded pesticide. Soap is a comparatively uncomplicated substance that has been with us for thousands of years -- the Babylonians made it, as did the Egyptians, the German tribes and the Celts. The Greeks and Romans preferred olive oil and the steam room, but that's mostly because they had olive oil and steam in abundance.

Humans are natural, too, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 03 Aug 13 - 01:05 PM

"I like the tingling sensation on my sensitive bits that I get from Dr. Bronner's peppermint soap."

That's as good a reason for buying it as any!

I wouldn't disagree with any of wot you have writ, Charmion.

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Aug 13 - 02:24 PM

On Facebook someone suggested using Lava Soap on one's body.

Nope. Been there. Lava Soap is rough on one's hands. Why would one use it on tender skin?

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Aug 13 - 03:50 PM

Lava soap is just a fairly ordinary bar soap with a little sand mixed in.

Based on experience some time ago, when you've been out in the woods for a week or so with a bunch of campers, and nobody brought any soap at all, you can wade out in the water and just rub the sand on and get about as clean as you need to be ***

***

***

until you get back to civilization and some people who haven't been camping with you.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Aug 13 - 08:41 PM

Sand? Or pumice?

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Aug 13 - 11:37 PM

It's supposed to be pumice, Ebbie, but how is that different from sand? Taking a bath with Lava gives you a good, healthy scratch, too.
"Only one thing can get THESE hands clean, Mistah - Lava!"
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 12:02 PM

Out in the Sahara, Muslims 'wash' their hands and feet in the sand before prayer. This is considered acceptable in situations of drought.

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Claire M
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 02:26 PM

Hiya,

I love Lush stuff; my fav product is Karma, I love patchouli. & there's nothing better than a good scratch, too; I'm always itching.

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 02:28 PM

5 Gyres is a non-profit dedicated to eliminating plastic pollution of our waters through research and outreach. Here's their page on their current campaign against microbeads: clicky.

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 02:30 PM

Here's a 5 Gyres position paper (pdf) on microbeads: clicky.

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 04:43 PM

Thanks, Becky. I am late being aware of this problem but I will do what I can.

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: JHW
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 04:59 PM

Hand cleaners for work grubby hands have plastic beads in. I had wondered how the sewage works got them out but know I see they don't it's one more thing not to buy

Subject: RE: BS: Micro Beads in Body Washes
From: Joybell
Date: 04 Aug 13 - 08:13 PM

Eliza, We're about the same age I think. I remember days before plastic. Fish and chips wrapped in newspaper tasted so much nicer and you could read the wrapping too.
I've been taking my own bags and baskets shopping ever since Australian supermarkets stopped using paper bags in the 70s. I try to avoid supermakets but I live in an area where I have limited possibilities. I have a collection of light-weight netting bags I use for loose vegetables. I've trained the checkout people not to empty them out, pointng out that they weigh no more than the plastic kind. (I thank them for their concern). Shoppers and staff ask me about them all the time but I'm still the only one using them. Because we have no rubbish collection I unwrap the plastic I can't avoid and put it in the bin outside the store. Not ideal but maybe someone will notice and get my point. The butcher happily uses my containers.
Cheers, Joy