Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: clueless don Date: 06 Aug 13 - 02:43 PM Don't know if you're bovvered, but you're obviously not a pox-ridden wench! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: MGM·Lion Date: 06 Aug 13 - 09:47 AM Don not so clueless~~ Tate Britain? Am I bovvered!? LoL |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: clueless don Date: 06 Aug 13 - 08:49 AM Now, whenever I hear the Shakespearean sonnet "My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun" (Sonnet 130) that MtheGM posted on 06 Aug 13 - 12:24 AM, I can't resist the urge to add "Bite me, alien boy!" I'll wait and see if anybody knows the reference. Don |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: Ron Davies Date: 06 Aug 13 - 08:31 AM On the other hand, as you probably know, you can sing virtually all of Emily Dickinson's poems to the tune of "The Yellow Rose of Texas". And I find that far more fascinating. And useful. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: beardedbruce Date: 06 Aug 13 - 08:17 AM EASTER PARADE—SONNET Is not a sonnet by the standard definitions, nor is it in the Italian rhyme scheme, or any variant thereof. It does have 14 lines... Sonnet 24/01/02 DCL A sonnet is a frozen tear, a kiss, Preserved in fourteen lines. It is a pearl Of layered thought, a gem too bright to miss When set on page: One blossom, to unfurl To perfect flower. As amber, sealed soul In timeless tomb, it can show time long past, Or hold this instant in it's grasp. The whole Of heart upon one single page, to last Beyond even our dreams, it seems a sip, Distilled to essence. Refined within mind, Lines sing sweet song, and rhymes in patterns slip, To weave image that leaves mere vision blind. A single chord, to resound in one's heart: Echo of past that might our future start. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: Ron Davies Date: 06 Aug 13 - 08:09 AM But let me also assure you that none of the aforementioned is by any means to be interpreted as an exhortation to you to "lighten up." I'm sure somebody will be by to carry out that task. Different strokes... Though it does perhaps raise the question as to non-fundamentalists (fundamentalist in this case meaning somebody who is trying to convert somebody else to his or her way of thinking) are more likely to have a more wide-ranging sense of humor. Or maybe it's just ignorant Colonials who do. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 06 Aug 13 - 08:04 AM us half-educated people- meaning Irving Berlin and Joe Offer? What a boast! The ladies from the Women's Emergency Housing probably knew a correct definition of a sonnet, so they might have been a bit disappointed when someone who probably did not, called them "so dumb that they can't write a sonnet about her Easter Bonnet". Their reaction is not known to us; I guess Berlin himself proudly reported the letters to Kimball and posterity. Perhaps the husbands had thrashed the ladies for pedantry, unjustly, of course. In my opinion, a pedant is not someone who points out a detail, but who bases her or his overall verdict on it. Here I plead not guilty. Many somewhat educated people including myself enjoy sonnets and musicals, and appreciate Berlin's works as highlights of their genre. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: Ron Davies Date: 06 Aug 13 - 08:01 AM Well done, MGM. ( Are you in technicolor or just black and white?) We, the mediocre and complacently uninformed, will always need your services. The problem is: it's sometimes a lot of fun to be complacently uninformed, and/or to twist words a bit for humorous effect. Even though senses of humor vary from person to person . And, as I recall, Americans are famous for thinking that a pudding crawling is hilarious. While others may differ on this point. For instance, just recently I came up (with some assistance) with the idea that the reason St. Paul was chased out of quite a few places, like Corinth and Ephesus, was that when singing a song, when he ran out of words he tended to lapse into na-na-na. And his listeners got very tired of this. I found this picture perfectly delightful. And I'm not overly bothered by the theological accuracy--or lack thereof--of it. But there's also this: I know somebody quite well whose dial is always set on "outrage". I always tell her: you can look for outrage everywhere--and find it. Or you can look for humor everywhere---and find it. Now, which is healthier? Sure, there are some topics which should be taken seriously. But they are in the distinct minority. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: MGM·Lion Date: 06 Aug 13 - 05:51 AM As for 'small stuff' ~~ who was the wise man who said that the devil was in the detail?* And as well our atomic scientists and diplomats should 'sweat the small stuff'; so why neglect and self-satisfied ignorance should be considered good enough for our use of words, the essential components of any sort of creative civilised intercommucication...! ~M~ Now, who is going to be the first to tell me to 'lighten up', I wonder. I have been denounced and insulted for attempting to maintain accurate standards of discourse; so I expect some anti-pedant [in two separate senses -- work them out] will have something else denunciatory or dismissive to enjoin me. *The idiom "the devil is in the detail" derives from the earlier phrase, "God is in the detail;" expressing the idea that whatever one does should be done thoroughly; i.e. details are important. This original idiom has been attributed to a number of different individuals, most notably to German-born architect Ludwig Mies van der Rohe (1886–1969) by The New York Times in Mies' 1969 obituary; however, it is generally accepted not to have originated with him. The expression also appears to have been a favorite of German art historian Aby Warburg (1866–1929), though Warburg's biographer, E.M. Gombrich, is likewise uncertain if it originated with Warburg. An earlier form "Le bon Dieu est dans le détail" (the good God is in the detail) is generally attributed to Gustave Flaubert (1821–1880). Bartlett's Familiar Quotations lists the saying's author as anonymous. Wikipedia |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: MGM·Lion Date: 06 Aug 13 - 05:40 AM "us half-educated people" --- Well, you said it, Joe. Sounds as if there might be some sort of perverse pride involved, perhaps? Ah, yes ~~ 'pedantic': wonder why I have always considered that a rather pathetic cop-out of a word to cover ignorance and mediocrity? On matters on which one is ill-informed, I always think silence is the best policy; but no doubt Mr Davies will denounce that as 'deadly serious'! Oh, well. My legendary pedantry shall ever shine forth before me, casting much needed light upon the world of the mediocre and the complacently uninformed... M·the·OLP |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: Joe Offer Date: 06 Aug 13 - 04:57 AM Well, ya know, most of us half-educated people remember that a sonnet has 14 lines, and we don't sweat the small stuff....which is why we coined the word "pedantic." ;-) |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 06 Aug 13 - 04:50 AM Joe, that page 286 is very interesting, and poses various questions. First of all, why were Ms. Stewart & Ms. Wilson in Women's Emergency Housing? Had they been thrashed by their husbands for composing horrible poetry, or for adoring Mr. Berlin? More seriously: what was Mr. Berlin's idea of a sonnet? Educated audiences will associate a particularly artificial genre of poem, whence the incongruity I observed above. A poem like the one in Berlin's letter could indeed be improvised by a lover on the spot. If he really believed that to be a sonnet, his original use of that word was not well-informed. There would have been alternatives, without sacrificing the rhyme; something approximately like "Your lovely Easter bonnet outshines the quaintest sonnet; so does the girl I'm taking to the Easter parade." ;-). The editor Kimball may have chosen the title EASTER PARADE—SONNET to avoid discussing the matter at all. On the other hand, there is one Irvin Berlin, and countless unimportant poets of flawless sonnets. His fame cannot be scratched. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: Ron Davies Date: 06 Aug 13 - 12:39 AM I gather you don't feel it's in the Italian style? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: Ron Davies Date: 06 Aug 13 - 12:37 AM MGM- You might not have noticed I'm not always deadly serious. Some folks might be but I'm not. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: MGM·Lion Date: 06 Aug 13 - 12:24 AM Yay, maybe, Joe ~~ but to illustrate how it isn't any way a sonnet, here are a couple from Shakespeare & Milton ~~ My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun (Sonnet 130) by William Shakespeare
My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
- See more at: http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15557#sthash.EIPpBQfQ.dpuf |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: Joe Offer Date: 06 Aug 13 - 12:19 AM On the other hand, Michael, ya gotta admit it's fun.... ;-) |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: MGM·Lion Date: 06 Aug 13 - 12:13 AM As one whose pedantry, as I might just have remarked before, was described by a friend on another forum as 'legendary', I feel bound to observe that is in fact not a sonnet at all, of either the Petrarchan, Spenserian, or Shakespearean convention. A sonnet is not just any old bit of versification 14 lines in length, but one with a strict rhyme-scheme [the AABBCC... rhyme scheme of IB's effort is in no way permissible], written in iambic pentameters -- not trimeters, like his -- divided into either an octet and sextet [ie two sections of respectively 8 & 6 lines, with a change of mood or attitude observable from one to other {Petrarchan, Miltonic &c}]; or of 12 lines with a final summarising couplet {Spenserian & Shakespearean} So what what Ron finds either 'classic' or 'classy' about this of Irv B's I am at a loss to perceive. ~M~ OLP (Official Legendary Pedant) |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade (Irving Berlin) From: Ron Davies Date: 05 Aug 13 - 10:50 PM Joe-- That's one classic--and classy--sonnet from Mr. Berlin. Good for him. But do you think it's in the Italian style? Ron |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 Aug 13 - 07:06 PM Found a copy in Canada, so postage reasonable. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: Joe Offer Date: 05 Aug 13 - 06:13 PM Hi, Ron. I just found the 1918 recording, and added a link to my post. Yes, it's a touchingly powerful song. Q, two problems with the Robert Kimball Complete Lyrics of.... series:
Here's another gem from The Complete Lyrics of Irving Berlin (page 286) EASTER PARADE—SONNET In April 1947 Berlin received the following letter: Women's Emergency Housing University of Missouri Columbia, Missouri April 24, 1947 Dear Mr. Berlin, You claim and we quote, "I could write a sonnet about your Easter Bonnet." Frankly we would like to see you do it, preferably in the Italian style. We have spent the entire evening attempting to write one with very little success and therefore we decided to let you take over. Sincerely, Billie Florence Stewart Doroghy G. Wilson He replied on May 1, 1947 Dear Billie Stewart & Dorothy Wilson:
About her Easter Bonnet Why don't you write some verse About her satin purse Or write a page of prose About her silken hose Or just dash off a "pome" About her empty dome Or maybe just a rhyme Of how she wastes her time Or leave it up to some Who aren't quite so dumb That they can't write a sonnet About her Easter Bonnet. Sincerely Irving Berlin |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: Ron Davies Date: 05 Aug 13 - 05:25 PM Yes, Joe, I knew it had verses. But I thought I'd let somebody do them who can put them in the high-tech way, rather than typing a text in as I did. Have you had a chance to listen to the actual 1918 recording? As I said, I find it surprisingly poignant. Admittedly the European combatants were already bled white. But the Americans had no idea how long they would be in the war. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 05 Aug 13 - 04:43 PM For a good work of art, a good artist and a worthy focus are both absolutely prerequisites. Thus, if a poet says "your bonnet and the person below it inspire me for a good sonnet", it can be seen as a charming compliment. But in a situation of immediate erotic interaction (or in a flirt, if you want it for $5 less), the idea of sitting down to count syllables is quite inappropriate, unintentionally funny. Moreover, both Fred Astaire and the character he plays have their poetic power in their legs. A high price to pay for a rhyme, but Hollywood and Broadway could afford it. By the way, like many other art forms once held sacred, the technique of writing sonnets (by Italian or English rules) descended to a pure sport during the 19th century, organized as contests by newspapers, similarly to crossword puzzles. Poets who valued their originality could no longer join that crowd. Without those strict rules, the effort of being a truly outstanding poet increased. |
Subject: ADD: Smile and Show Your Dimple (Irving Berlin) From: Joe Offer Date: 05 Aug 13 - 04:27 PM Of course, this song has verses, too, Ron. SMILE AND SHOW YOUR DIMPLE (Irving Berlin, 1917) VERSE 1 Little girlie, you look sad; I'm afraid you're feeling bad Because he's leaving. But stop your grieving, little girl; He don't want you to feel blue, For it's not the thing to do. It will soon be over; Then he'll come marching back to you. CHORUS Smile and show your dimple; You'll find it's very simple; You can think of something comical In a very little while. Chase away the wrinkle; Sprinkle just a twinkle: Light your face up, Just brace up and smile. VERSE 2 Little girlie, don't you know That your pearly teeth will show If you start smiling? So, keep your smiling, little girl; You can keep your cares in half If you only try to laugh. Look into my cam'ra— I'm going to take your photograph. REPEAT CHORUS Notes: Copyrighted August 20, 1917. Leading recording by Sam Ash (Columbia). In 1933 Berlin used part of the melody of the chorus as the principal source for the music of "Easter Parade." Source: The Complete Lyrics of Irving Berlin, edited by Robert Kimball and Linda Emmett (Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 2001) page 155 YouTube Video of the Sam Ash recording |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Aug 13 - 01:35 PM re: Good sonnets, being tedious work, effectively praise the Petrarch rather than his Laura. "In the old days a poet used to sweat turning out a sonnet, say. Very difficult form. Exactly 14 lines, all of them hung together with rhyme, rhythm, meter, perfectly. It was too much work for the poet, so blank verse and then free verse came in. And then anarchy. The new poet never bothered to learn how to write a sonnet, or to measure his lines in correct meter and to follow a rhythm system. He dashed off his inspired poem in a matter of a half hour and was surprised when after a few decades of this people stopped reading poetry." Among the Bad Baboons, by Mack Reynolds Copyright 1968 Galaxy Publishing Corp. But I have to disagree with the comment - This inspiration of the muse is far more significant than the effort of the poet. Without a worthy focus, a sonnet cannot be good poetry. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 Aug 13 - 11:34 AM Ron- thanks for the introductory verse (checked by Joe). I should get "The Complete Lyrics ....." He wrote so many sogs with memorable tunes. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: Ron Davies Date: 05 Aug 13 - 10:33 AM One more thing. Berlin did in fact change the melody somewhat for "Easter Parade". Starts out very similar, but then diverges. However, no question where the melody for "Easter Parade" came from. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: Ron Davies Date: 05 Aug 13 - 10:29 AM Actually I just listened to the original hit (March 1918) and it is quite poignant. It's about a girl saying goodbye to her boy who's going to fight Over There. And of course in March 1918 many soldiers, including Americans, were still being killed. It was not at all clear the war would be over within the year. And on top of that came the flu epidemic. I wonder if anyone can link the original song, easily obtainable by search engine--I have an Apple so I used Safari--to this thread. I don't have the tech savvy to do so. Or are there copyright problems? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: Ron Davies Date: 05 Aug 13 - 10:10 AM Well, that didn't take long. Here's what I found: Smile and show your dimple You'll find it's very simple You can think of something comical In a very little while Chase away the wrinkle Sprinkle just a twinkle Light your face up Just brace up and smile. I think it's pretty clear the second set of lyrics ("Easter Parade") was in fact an improvement. But this first song was in fact a hit--#10, I think, in 1918. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: Ron Davies Date: 05 Aug 13 - 10:01 AM I wonder if anybody can post the original lyrics to the chorus ("Smile and Show Your Dimple"). |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: Joe Offer Date: 05 Aug 13 - 05:10 AM Hi, Ron - the verse you posted is that same as what I was about to post from The Complete Lyrics of Irving Berlin. Couldn't find a printed verification of the British version, though. -Joe- |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 05 Aug 13 - 05:06 AM Whenever I read a sonnet, a flash of memory appears before my inner eye, with Fred Astaire singing Oh, I could write a sonnet- what would a musical persona not do for the sake of rhyme! Good sonnets, being tedious work, effectively praise the Petrarch rather than his Laura. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: MGM·Lion Date: 05 Aug 13 - 01:08 AM I remember the English version as "... down in Rotten Row ,,, In a smart magazine". But that is a 75-or-so year old recollection so I don't guarantee its accuracy. But Ron's version is certainly in the main what I used to hear on the wireless in the 30s. A bit desperate, of course: there wasn't a fashion occasion called the Easter Parade in Hyde Park, as there was on 5th Avenue; and the whole concept of the hat for the occasion being called an "Easter bonnet" was no part of our tradition. The royal opening of the flat-racing season at Ascot was the traditional venue for society ladies to show off their new hats. But I suppose the adaptor did his best. ~M~ |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: Ron Davies Date: 04 Aug 13 - 11:20 PM Can't see any reason to leave out a verse, even when it serves just as introduction to the well-known chorus: Never saw you look quite so pretty before Never saw you dressed quite so lovely—what's more, I could hardly wait to keep our date this lovely Easter morning, And my heart beat fast as I came through the door Then there's also what's described as the alternative bridge for UK use: To the Park we'll go Round Rotten Row The photographers will snap us And then you'll be seen In the smart magazine. I wonder if our UK posters would like to comment on this one. I have no idea as to the validity of any of the above lyrics. Just came from the Net. But they could in fact be accurate. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Easter Parade From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Aug 13 - 08:37 PM When I saw this posted and saw that it came from the 1933 musical review As Thousands Cheer; I thought, Hey, that can't be the whole story. This song was used in musical productions over and over and over again:
Here's Amazon's review of the 1948 film, Easter Parade:
And of the 1942 film, Holiday Inn
-Joe- |
Subject: Lyr Add: EASTER PARADE (Irving Berlin) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Aug 13 - 07:52 PM EASTER PARADE Irving Berlin, 1933 In your Easter bonnet, with all the frills upon it You'll be the grandest lady in the Easter parade. I'll be all in clover, and when they look you over, I'll be the proudest fellow in the Easter parade. On the avenue, Fifth Avenue, the photographers will snap us, And you'll find that you're in the rotogravure. Oh, I could write a sonnet about your Easter bonnet, And of the girl I'm taking to the Easter parade. From "As Thousands Cheer." Original melody written in 1917, "Smile and Show Your Dimple." |
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