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woman a dog and a walnut tree

The Sandman 23 Aug 13 - 07:58 AM
GUEST,henryp 23 Aug 13 - 08:08 AM
IanC 23 Aug 13 - 08:16 AM
IanC 23 Aug 13 - 08:17 AM
Crowhugger 24 Aug 13 - 12:32 AM
GUEST 24 Aug 13 - 12:40 AM
MGM·Lion 24 Aug 13 - 03:18 AM
The Sandman 24 Aug 13 - 06:51 AM
Lighter 24 Aug 13 - 10:03 AM
gnomad 24 Aug 13 - 05:57 PM
MGM·Lion 25 Aug 13 - 01:14 AM
GUEST,henryp 25 Aug 13 - 02:07 AM
GUEST,henryp 25 Aug 13 - 02:14 AM
GUEST,Allen in OZ 25 Aug 13 - 02:27 AM
gnomad 25 Aug 13 - 04:16 AM
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Subject: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Aug 13 - 07:58 AM

the more you beat them the better they be.
as regards walnut trees i understand its the end of the branches that are whipped, to make them fruit plentifully, has anyone tried it?


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Subject: RE: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 23 Aug 13 - 08:08 AM

No, but I enjoy a Walnut Whip.


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Subject: RE: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: IanC
Date: 23 Aug 13 - 08:16 AM

Far as I know, it was always

"a woman, a whelp, and a walnut tree".

No idea about the first two but it was traditional to harvest walnuts by hitting a tree violently to shake the walnuts down. I've seen it done. It was also supposed to improve the walnut harvest (often a bit patchy) but I can't see any reason why it would, really.

:-)


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Subject: RE: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: IanC
Date: 23 Aug 13 - 08:17 AM

A whelp is a puppy.


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Subject: RE: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: Crowhugger
Date: 24 Aug 13 - 12:32 AM

Generally, damage to growing tips of a plant cause it to branch--one always "pinches back" things like petunias,, tomato vines, marigolds, zinnias, coleus to name but a few, specifically to create more growing tips, which then bear more flowers. So I guess damage to the tips of walnut branches could promote similar branching, thus more flowers followed by fruit. This providing that no significant infection enters through the wounds and causes dieback.


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Subject: RE: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 13 - 12:40 AM

walnut whips have diminished in size since I was a boy, or is it just my imagination?


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Subject: RE: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Aug 13 - 03:18 AM

IanC ~ "it was always"...?! Surely you know better than to claim definitiveness for any variant of any traditional saying &c.

Though 'whelp' has of course the advantage of alliterativeness, I must admit I had never come across it: a dog where I come from -- tho I have a dim recollection of once hearing someone substitute 'horse'.

~M~


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Subject: RE: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Aug 13 - 06:51 AM

, a story i was told by an old farmer,"i remember small boys throwing sticks at a walnut tree [branches ]to get the walnuts down, when the foot path was no longer used and boys did not walk that route and throw sticks at the branches the tree eventually stopped fruiting"


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Subject: RE: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Aug 13 - 10:03 AM

The "dog" version appears in America in The Red Badge of Courage (1894).


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Subject: RE: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: gnomad
Date: 24 Aug 13 - 05:57 PM

As a child I was told "A woman, a spaniel, and a walnut tree," etc, but I have no idea why that particular selection.

As I understood it the tree was to be beaten around the trunk, but I cannot remember whether I was told so, or merely inferred it.


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Subject: RE: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Aug 13 - 01:14 AM

Gnomad ~~ Because spaniels are proverbially so faithful that they respond to ill treatment with increased affection. See A Midsummer Night's Dream: Helena & Demetrius

~M~

    Demetrius: Do I entice you? do I speak you fair?
    Or, rather, do I not in plainest truth
    Tell you, I do not, nor I cannot love you?

    Helena: And even for that do I love you the more.
    I am your spaniel; and, Demetrius,
    The more you beat me, I will fawn on you:
    Use me but as your spaniel, spurn me, strike me,
    Neglect me, lose me; only give me leave,
    Unworthy as I am, to follow you.


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Subject: RE: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 25 Aug 13 - 02:07 AM

According to enthusiasts like Clive Simms, anyone in England, or even southern Scotland, with a reasonably-sized garden could plant a walnut, provided that it is sheltered from cold winds and not subject to spring frosts.

As for "A woman, a dog and a walnut tree; the harder they are beaten, the better they be", he thinks the phrase originated on the Continent where long poles were used for harvesting nuts.

These knocked down both the walnuts and any dead branches, limiting the spread of fungal infections. This beating would have also stimulated late-summer shoot formation - useful for a plant that flowers at the tips of stems formed the previous year.

From The Daily Telegraph


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Subject: RE: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 25 Aug 13 - 02:14 AM

The Isle of Capri

`Twas on the Isle of Capri that I found her
Beneath the shade of an old walnut tree
Oh, I can still see the flowers bloomin' round her
Where we met on the Isle of Capri


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Subject: RE: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: GUEST,Allen in OZ
Date: 25 Aug 13 - 02:27 AM

I think it was George Orwell who suggested that the kindest thing you could do for future generations was plant a walnut tree

AD


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Subject: RE: woman a dog and a walnut tree
From: gnomad
Date: 25 Aug 13 - 04:16 AM

Well there's a little mystery explained. Not being an enthusiast of any dogs I would be unlikely to have reached that (or any other) conclusion. Thanks Mr G-M.


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