BS: Name for people from USA

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 01:49 PM

Allan (26 Aug 13 - 12:43 PM), since the words "Frenchman" and "Frenchwoman" exist, these roles are - by mere convention - not covered by "French", but if my feeling does not betray me, all (or most) others are, so that "Frenchperson/s" is not needed as desperately as "chairperson". "They are French" sounds correct to me, grammatically.

There are some unfortunate subtleties though, in fact in many languages. "He was the first Frenchman to become director of the IMF" - would that mean that Frenchwomen may have preceded him or not? "... the first Spaniard ..." would not pose that question.

Likewise we wouldn't say Germanwoman we'd just say a German for either sex.

"Gerwoman" could be the idea of a hypothetical gender activist I was referring to - note the winker symbol ;)

Compared to all those strange but unavoidable problems, "US American" is pretty straightforward, though not really beautiful because of the abbreviation.

As for "UK citizens", they could adopt "British" as a synonym if they wanted, but some do not want, for varying reasons/pretexts.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 01:43 PM

Canuck may be slang but it's fine with me. We call Americans that or Yanks. I was rather taken aback, then, to find out that some Yanks feel Yank is an innacurate name and that some even consider it a derogatory term. Such had never occured to me. Then again, I am a Canuck so I still call em Yanks.

The term Brit means, to me, English, Scots and Welsh with Irish thrown in depending on the discussion and on whether any Irish are within earshot.

Time to drift... Canucks are not Hosers. Hosers exist in many parts of the world but the names vary from Redneck to Yahoo to Yabbo (spg?) and beyond. I am actually a real hoser, certified by Aeroquip to make hydraulic hose assemblies but I am not a Hoser. I am a Kent County Redneck (when in Kent County visiting me Redneck buddies an havin a thaw and a jaw). It's a nuance thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 01:01 PM

But of course the French don't say "a Frenchman". If they wanted to say it they"d say "un Francais" or "une Francaise" if it were a woman. It's problem with the English language.

The complication with English/British/UK is a slightly different one - but it does give rise to a consequence which provides an exception to what I said earlier about the USA is the only country without a specific and exclusive term for its citizens. There's no accurate word for a citizen of the UK either, since British properly really refers to the island Great Britain, not to a chunk of Ireland as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 12:58 PM

"Name for people from USA"

Southerners.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 12:43 PM

"I think "French" serves all grammatical roles alright" It doesn't really though. 'He is French' but not 'he is a French'. It needs to be 'he is a Frenchman'or at the very least add man as a seperate word. Whereas 'he is Italian' and 'he is an Italian'. You could say he is an Italian man but you don't need to.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 12:36 PM

"So why are Europeans known as FrenchMEN, and EnglishMEN" I think only some are. And sometimes they need not be. For instance a Scot need not be a Scotsman he or she can just be a Scot. Likewise we wouldn't say Germanwoman we'd just say a German for either sex. Spaniard as opposed to Spanishman. Pole for Polish of either sex etc. Seems actually just more to be the British and some near neighbours who use the 'man' bit as part fo the noun itself. Frenchman, Dutchman etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 12:19 PM

USAians of course!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 12:11 PM

mg, if you welcome Chileans to call themselves Americans as well, you must cater for the case that someone wants to refer only to the citizens of the USA. For example, speaking about "the 316 million Americans" would effectively deny Chileans being Americans. My favourite is "US Americans" - but I am open to better suggestions.

Ebbie, languages can go even stranger ways than politics, and we have no choice but to adapt best we can. It is not long ago that the "chairperson" was invented, a very fortunate idea; we have not yet seen "Frenchperson". I think "French" serves all grammatical roles alright. (Some may insist that a female German be called "Gerwoman", plural "Germen" and "Gerwomen", non-gender form "Gerperson/s" or "Gerpeople" or just "the Ger" ;). "Ottoman" was just a dynasty, so "citizens of the Ottoman empire" is the only correct naming, not "the Otto".)

"Chinaman" is definitely off polite usage nowadays.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 11:38 AM

we call ourselves americans. I at least welcome people from Chile, Canada, wherever to call themselves americans as well. It is very rude to take our name away from us as long as we are not guilty of saying others in n, s and central america can not use it as well. But they tend to identify themselves as a particular country, i.e., Mexico and we have reference to the continent and it can't easily be changed. It is a nice name that stands for something, ideals that have not been met but still can be. Please do not call us USAians.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 11:17 AM

How about excolonists? Hey I can poke fun cause I are one. Actually, I like that global cowboy. Several meanings most not good but sadly true.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: number 6
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 11:08 AM

Ami ... singular, Amis ... plural

ok


Yanks, yankees ( but this probably does not really go over good with those that live south of the Mason-Dixon line ... then there are what we call Americans (after all they are the only Americans, Canadians and Mexicans don't count)

how about ... global cowboys

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 11:08 AM

Another point to consider: Why are all the American continents 'America', in the first place? I realize they are -or were- all connected but there are, politically speaking, clear delineations.

I suppose in some distant future we may become "the United States of the AmericaS."

Just musing here: We don't have a problem with 'European'. A Frenchman is a European, as is a Pole. Same with 'Asian': citizens of Japan are Asian as are, say, citizens of Myanmar.

Ah ha. I see there is a difference between citizens of Europe versus those of Asia.

So why are Europeans known as FrenchMEN, and EnglishMEN and ScotsMEN and IrishMEN- you get the idea- ? We don't say JapaneseMEN.

We can't solve the problem of what to call the USAians until we first resolve the problems of the older societies.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 10:48 AM

Mind as to my last post I suppose we have the same problem in regard to the British Isles - and I know many Irish people dislike the term so no need to go there. Not everyone from the British Isles is British and of course we don't actually have a common adjective that is used for people from the British Isles. We don't really even have a proper name for everyone from the UK other than British which isn't technically correct as the whole of the UK isn't in Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 10:43 AM

I take it pretty much everyone knows what is being talked about if the word Americans is used? If we were talking about Canadians as well then we'd say North Americans. And we have South Americans etc. I suppose though that there is no obvious thing for describing people from the entire Americas as a whole?

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: Dave Swan
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 10:14 AM

C'mon, Bill. You've never said Kleenexing? :)

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: John P
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 10:13 AM

"American" might come from the fact that the name of the country is the United States of America. People are normally referred to by the name of the country; Spanish people in Spain, English people in England, etc. Calling the people "United States of Americans" is too much of a mouthful and is terribly unclear. Perhaps the question should be about what the country is named instead of what the people are called. Taken literally as a description rather than as a name, "United States of America" would refer a union of all the governments in the Americas. But since it is a name and not a description, calling the inhabitants "Americans" makes perfect sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 10:05 AM

Like many words in many languages, 'Americans' doesn't cover exactly what it refers to, but has become so embedded that it's useless to try to change it.

(or maybe we'll consider it when Brits stop referring to 'hoovering'... ;>). Hoover is a company, not a verb.)

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 10:02 AM

US Americans, US-Americans, US citizens.

"Soviet citizens" was an officially accepted and even encouraged name, though a bit strange considering that "sovyet" simply means "council".

"Citizens of ..." is always the safest form, but rarely needed. Other problems result in the fact that some countries have been renamed by non-democratic regimes, so that exiled citizens use a different name.

More importantly: we should avoid confusing a country with its government whenever we can. Governments can decide for their country, e.g. about declaring war (- regrettable, but formally correct -), but should generally not be trusted to speak on its behalf, even if elected democratically. "The relation between the USA and France" has so many aspects, that adding "... gvts. of ..." may not be too much typing if confusion must be feared.

"Yoosies" and "Youkies" may do when referring to national sports teams, similar to the long-established "Aussies". I would not use either of these names in any other context, although I know that Australians are actually very fond of the abbreviation "Aussies". It may still sound as if they were not being taken seriously, when so addressed by foreigners.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 09:52 AM

The US was settled by draft dodgers, criminals, slaves (Black AND white), Indians (both sorts), rebels, religious fanatics, atheists, Irish, Germans, Chinese, Japanese, poor people, rich people, soldiers, sailors, Basques, Lebanese, Cape Verdeans, and just about every group you can think of. They have all "intermingled."

I suggest "Mutts."

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 08:42 AM

The same issue applied with the USSR. "CItizens of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" is a bit of a mouthful. They often got referred to as "the Russians", but of course many of them weren't Russians at all. The other term in use was "the Soviets" - in way a parallel is calling the USA "the States", but no one ever calls its inhabitants "the Staters".

The USSR ended the problem when they abolished the country ( though I'm not suggesting that was the reason they did that). But that would be a bit drastic.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 07:25 AM

Amerigo Vespucci never set foot on the continent, yet he got it named for him. How? MONEY!

If you ask a European what is a yankee, they will probably say, "Someone who lives in America." If you ask someone in say South America they might say "Someone who lives in the United states."

In, say, Mississippi, they might say, "Someone who lives in New England."
In New England, "Someone who lives in Vermont." In Vermont? Someone who eats pie for breakfast.

Subject: RE: BS: Name for people from USA
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 07:09 AM

We tend on here to call them Yoosers (and ourselves collectively Yookers), I have observed. But I don't suppose "Yoosers" would do as any sort of official designation.

Presidents & such talk of "My Fellow-Americans", suggesting that "Americans" is the term they themselves would favour. It's a sort of 'default' thing, I suppose: I mean, Canadians and Mexicans and Chileans (cont p94) all live on the American continent but have specific designations: leaving "Americans" to be used by the denizens of the US specifically.

~M~

Subject: BS: Name for people from USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 06:56 AM

The old thread about how the English haven't got a national anthem of their own, and discussing suggestions, has surfaced again.

It set me thinking of a similar issue relating to the USA. Not about national anthems, the USA has more than enough of those, but about how its people should be referred to.

It's the only country I can think of where there isn't really a special and exclusive name for term for its inhabitants. The French are French, the Jamaicans are Jamaicans, and so forth round the world. The English sometimes get confused whether they are English or British, but that's a different issue.

But the people of the USA are what? "Americans" is the respectful term. But there are all these other people from the Americas who are also entitled to be called that. There's "Yanks", but that is as likely to be hostile as friendly, more especially in its Spanish form, "Yanqui". - and it doesn't go down well in parts of the USA either.

So do people in the USA ever wish they had a name all of their own?