BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 05:35 AM

What's your point - if the ammunition supplied by Britain to Syria was used for target practice (font color=red>AS YOU INSISTED VERY FIRMLY IT WAS ("IT WAS USED FOR PRACTICE - THEY TEND TO DO THAT SORT OF THING" Britain will have done their bit in Homs by making sure the snipers did their job properly.
The claims on the sales may have been made originally by civil servants, but they have been used over and over again by politicians to cover there arses for selling this shit to Assad in the first place.
You were given the Amnesty report at the time - you chose to ignore it then and you seem now to be pleading ignorance of it - it's a matter of record, but perhaps you would like to defend him?
I assume we are to hear no more about his squeaky clean reputation prior to the latest atrocities - thought not!
Everything esse is unqualified, blustering pseudo-militaristic bullshit - ever thought of entering for Mastermind as your specialist subject
By the way, I meant to thank you for putting your position in context - "Does the export of riot control gear manufactured in the UK bother me? No it does not - after all it will never be used on me if it is exported will it?"
Couldn't have put it better myself - keep up the goog work - disss - missss
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 05:56 AM

""whoever it was in Syria who was responsible for making this purchase realised that NATO 7.62mm ammunition is useless for Soviet or Russian weapons that fire Soviet or Russian 7.62mm rounds.""

I've no intention of joining this three cornered merry-go-round, but the statement above intrigued me.

Given that I know the Russians and NATO use the same calibre, what is the difference which prevents crossover?

I ask out of genuine curiosity Teribus.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 06:08 AM

The Russian one is longer.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 08:27 AM

Is there any documented evidence to back these claims - these two have a long established history of inventing facts.
Jim Carroll
One of mny
http://globalsolutionspgh.org/2013/06/human-rights-in-syria-before-the-civilian-war/

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 08:28 AM

Other way round Keith. The Soviet/Russian 7.62mm round is short chamber ammunition (i.e. the cartridge is shorter than the Nato round)

AK-47 Round

NATO 7.62mm Round

I see JOM "The Impartial" has grabbed at the tail again and missed.

By the bye Jom you seem to have dodged my question:

Who was it that said Britain had supplied Assad with Sniper Rifles? - YOU did Jom

Who was it that told you they hadn't? - Keith A of Hertford

So who was it that introduced that blatant lie and total misrepresentation about sniper rifles into the Homs Horror thread? - YOU did Jom you little impartial rascal you.

That by the way was the point.

Now let me see what your next misrepresentation and wild leap is?

"if the ammunition supplied by Britain to Syria was used for target practice {Sorry your colours didn't work there for you Jom} Britain will have done their bit in Homs by making sure the snipers did their job properly."

Rather a large number of assumptions there aren't there Jom - like

1: Ammo if ever delivered at all was delivered in 2009 two years before the shooting started.

2: ~100,000 rounds IF DELIVERED would have all been used up within a year. You might possibly be capable of training up 11 men with that amount of ammo in that time.

3: Syrian National Service would mean that those trained in 2009 would not be present in the forces of the Syrian Army in 2011 - so the men trained in 2009 could well be fighting on the other side.

The Amnesty report talks about repression and lack of civil and human rights says nothing about Bashar Al-Assad being a Mass-Murderer, prior to March 2011 as you claim - His Dad, Hafaz, was though 10,000 to 55,000 killed on his orders at Hamma.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 11:50 AM

Just interested - it becomes difficult to sort out which is real and which is invented with you pair of clowns.
"So who was it that introduced that blatant lie and total misrepresentation about sniper rifles into the Homs Horror thread?"
Sorry -not guilty.
The first mention of sniper rifles on the Homs thread, apart from those supplied by Gaddaffi which was discussed earlier in the thread was in your friend's response to a link to military equipment sales.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 09:21 AM
"But why do you ONLY criticise Britain?
Not Russia.
Not China.
Not Syria.
Britain is hardly in the same league.
You have clearly been searching vigorously, but all you have come up with is some sniper rifles.
The only other "weapons" supplied were armour plated buses, tear gas and water cannon."
Throughout this discussion I have never mentioned "Sniper rifles" other than to point out Keith's dismissing them as being unimportant - I produced a link to "small arms ammunition" - no more. It was he who thought it to be sniper bullets and was happy to describe them as "but all you have come up with is some sniper rifles" - harmless little toys as they are!
Are you really suggesting that snipers training using the the 2009 delivery of "SNIPER RIFLE BULLETS" would not have been making use of that training 18 months later on the streets of Homs - you're a joke!
By the way, the link I produced referred only to a licence, which you first supported as being unimportant, then denied, then claimed they were cancelled - all without proof, of course!
"National Service" ?????
The reports coming out of Homs described the snipers as "specially trained crack troops" - regulars - have your powers of invention no limits??
By the way, Nowhere do any of the reorts mentioned "100,000 rounds" - not in my link, and as far as I know, nowhere in any official documents, but there are newspaper reports of "a delivery".
Perhaps your mates down the pub told you what the delivery consisted of - waddya think?
"nothing about Bashar Al-Assad being a Mass-Murderer,"
Just a tortured and a disappearer - he later promoted himself to mass murderer
The protests started in September 2012 - mass killings of opponents by him were known about before that, and killings, torture and persecution of members the Kurdish population date back to the mid 2000's
Human rights abuses by Assad was well known long before the sale of sniper rifle bullets and chemicals were sanctioned
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 02:43 PM

Thank you for that accurate answer Teribus.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 02:26 AM

Not Guilty eh?

my question:

Who was it that said Britain had supplied Assad with Sniper Rifles? - YOU did Jom

Keith did not say that he had - Keith said "all YOU can come up with is some sniper rifles" - an error which he admitted to - but an error that came from a poorly written article introduced as evidence by you in order to support your argument. But please correct me if I am in error here but it was you who then went on the next day to state quite clearly:

"the horrors of Homs brought about by sniper rifles sold by Britain - specifically for use on the civilian population"

Now I don't know how you would classify that statement of yours but I would call it a lie. No sniper rifles were ever purchased from Britain. Unlike Keith you however were not prepared to admit your error.

Please tell me Jom that licence for the small arms ammunition - did it state a value? It did didn't it? IIRC it was US$50,000 and for that Jom ould son once you pay for transportation and fees you would expect to get ~100,000 rounds of surplus Nato 7.62mm ammunition. Your newspaper article referred to the issuing of the licence and said nothing whatsoever about the sale ever going through, no record of any shipment has ever been produced. I do not believe that it ever was sent because the ammunition would be of little use to the Syrian Army or Police.

National Service?? So now you set yourself up as an expert on the Syrian Army and the rebel forces operating inside Syria. Hardly a credible stance as you seemed awfully eager to completely ignore the overwhelming evidence in links that showed that the Syrian Army use no US or UK weapons and that they purchase their arms from Russia, China and Iran.

The Syrian armed forces are based on a system of universal conscription of all males aged 18 the service obligation is 18 months so 2009 + 18 months brings us to the summer of 2010 - ah but according to military expert Jom all snipers are drawn from the ranks of specially trained crack troops - really? Well snipers are specially trained but as a specialisation they form part of every infantry unit - so although specially trained they are not part of any special corps within the army.

Now how are you so certain that those men trained in 2009 are not part of the numbers who have defected from the Syrian Army? Answer to that of course is that you can't be - you have no information to base your assumption on, but just for the record the following desertions took place:

Late 2011 - 10,000
March 2012 - 60,000 (20,000 in one month alone)
June 2012 - State of Civil War now achieved according to UN Head of Peacekeeping (never achieved in either Iraq or in Afghanistan) by this stage as well as many junior officers, the deserters now include 40 Brigadier Generals.
June 2013 - 73 senior officers and their families desert including 7 Generals and 20 Colonels who estimated that Syrian Army strength including conscripts stood at 280,000 - but of that number Assad could not mobilise all the forces available to him for fear of large scale defections to the rebel cause.

Did Britain supply weapons used to kill people in Homs in 2011 - No it did not.

Did Britain supply the Assad regime with weaponry period - No it did not.

And unless you can prove conclusively that it did Jom - not inferences in newspaper articles, not rumours or slurs - proof, evidence, then all you are doing is airing your own biased views and bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: Did CIA lunch the Sarin missile in Syria
From: bobad
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 07:41 AM

Assad reported to be using "vacuum bombs" against civilians.

"While the world tries to bring Syria's chemical weapons under control, government forces are killing civilians with other extremely powerful weapons," said Priyanka Motaparthy, Middle East child rights researcher at Human Rights Watch."