BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Nov 13 - 04:55 AM

Keith with his cut and paste jobs,

That would be me backing my views with hard evidence.

It must be much easier just making pronouncements conjured out of the air, and making up false "facts" to prop them up.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Nov 13 - 04:45 AM

I will believe the three of you, when I see you support the Pope in his condemnation of the "tyrannical Capitalist system", which is the real obstruction to "equality"

The marriage rights of homosexuals come way down the scale when contrasted with the blighted generations deprived of purpose when Capitalism determines that they are no longer viable.

At least Ian admits to his complicity!!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,musket again
Date: 29 Nov 13 - 04:28 AM

Interesting. The person I have most pm and email discussions with, (mainly email because I rarely log in) is someone who will always disagree with me on the issues where we find ourselves sharing threads yet I doubt we have ever had a bad word to say of each other. I hope we never shall.

In the meantime, there are those who either start or respond to threads who make a point of either posting odious views and standing by them (in Akenhateon's case borne of ignorance rather than conviction, you can't educate pork) or post in a provocative manner but always say they are articulating external sources when challenged but are happy to be associated with less than savoury arguments if nobody challenges them. (Keith with his cut and paste jobs, Jack with his hero de Waal. )

I reckon over 90% of my time on mudcat.org is on musical threads. There, the only person I get into slanging matches with has been, funnily enough, posting similar arguments to me in two of Keith's strolls into idealistic fantasy in the BS section.

You know, the minute I worked out many years ago that my middle of the road views couldn't be reflected as socialist, no matter how much I thought I was one, there had to be a reason. That has come to me now.

If Akenhateon and his brutish brand of neo fascist utterings is in his mind socialism, thank Clapton I'm a dirty rotten stinking capitalist. ....

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Nov 13 - 03:25 AM

I am more than happy for people to post views that are not mine. I am not happy anyone with inciting hatred against minority groups for any reason. Other people, including the moderators, can judge for themselves.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 09:45 PM

Your disingenuous appeal to the mods will, hopefully, fall on deaf ears, as ever. You see, you appeal dishonestly for reasonable discussion, yet you are homophobic, a liar about your alleged socialism (you're nothing of the kind), a liar about our wanting to shut down threads (the last thing I would ever angle for, especially in threads in which you dig ever deeper holes for yourself and never seem to know when to stop digging), and, worst of all, you claim abuse against yourself when you yourself are incredibly abusive to a significant sector of the population. In terms of dealing with gay people, you would conceivably have been an excellent henchman in the T***d R***h. You need to reflect on the fact that a good number of "socialists" in working-class areas were rather easily persuaded (by the argument that resorted to the evil of the alien "other") to vote BNP. The broken circle of political allegiance has a very small gap between working-class socialism and fascism (the East-enders in 1936 saw it, but you haven't learned anything from history, have you?), and you seem to not to have noticed how easy it is to complete that circle. You are a sad case. Radical all right, but socialist? Do me a bloody favour, will you?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 06:27 PM

DAVE...."If you feel that Mudcat has become unwelcoming may I suggest that you do the obvious?"

Hmmm....I don't see Mudcat as a comfort blanket Dave, I come here to exchange and explore ideas on various subjects; that is becoming increasingly difficult, not only for me, but for the majority of members who like reasonable and civil discussion on any subject which is not proscribed by Mudcat moderation.

Ian, and to a lesser extent yourself and Steve, seem to have taken it upon yourselves to try to wreck or shut down threads containing views with which you don't agree.
The MO appears to be unfunny "in jokes" and abusive ridicule of other members...witness abusive posts and ridicule to Michael, Keith, Jack, Pete, Frank, even Joe (God bless him).

I think you will probably be successful in achieving your objective, unless the mods make a stand and curtail your activities...they may be entertained to an extent by the barrage of abuse against myself, but when bullies are allowed to "get away with it", they get drunk with power and the bad behaviour increases.
Soon Mudcat will cease to exist as a serious discussion forum and everything in the garden will be rosy.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 04:17 PM

Dave if I ever have a go at you it will be for selective illiteracy and making up facts.


Please elucidate. But I must warn it can cause blindness.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,musket giggling
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 04:12 PM

Hello Sailor!

By 'eck its been a long time.   You will notice we haven't forgotten you. We sometimes mention you in despatches. Can I nominate you for sentence of the day? That last one was a classic.   I have absolutely no idea what the hell you are saying. Except you seem to be saying before it that Dave and I went to the same school.   Well, at least you acknowledge we are educated. I must have been in the A band and Dave the B band though as I rose to co Messiah and he only got as far as associated gnome.

Although if Co Messiah S doesn't get his football religion in line with the true faith I may have to ask Dave if he is interested in setting up a reformed whatever religion we are and elevate him to co Messiah. Not easy elevating a gnome but all religions are based on leaders who can do magic tricks.

Still reading?

Plenty more Betty Swollox where that came from.




Hey lover! You've been quiet lately and co Messiah S has nicked the after shave from the raffle prizes. I may have to drink lots of beer.

Again.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 01:07 PM

When I started that thread it was to point out how closely those described by the prominent atheist Der Wall resembled the bad behavior of a few people on this forum.   

Dave if I ever have a go at you it will be for selective illiteracy and making up facts.

Obviously you went to the same school system as Musket. Discussion with you is pretty pointless. But pointing out your stupidity and hypocrisy to others who may read this is somewhat satisfying.

The constant easy proof that you are lying that anyone, even you if you made the radical move of reading ALL of words on the post, could find the evidence in my initial post on that thread is too good an opportunity to pass up.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 08:04 AM

Because you followed me onto a thread which I and others refuse to take seriously for reasons we have patiently explained and you try to be serious. You also gave tried to make me look a fool. I don't need you to do that, I'm married.

The silly jokes make up, openly and covertly, 90% of what I and others say on this thread. I came out with the silly book reference on a different thread because I noticed whenever I quote a source you go googling it. I couldn't resist seeing how daft you were. In fact Betty Swollox first came around when I quoted an imaginary book by her for Jerk the Sea Cadet to look up in a similar manner. From his comments, I take it he did.

Little things please (my) little mind.

Of course I'm not as advanced as you o wise one. I haven't learned how to read a book and defend it beyond reason on the basis the author's name sounds impressive and must have gravitas.....



Can someone tell him he doesn't start the silly jokes but that doesn't stop him being the comedian between the strippers?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 02:52 AM

Keith does not.
He is just one of many historians I quoted in support of my views and refuting yours.

Your joke was unquestionably racist.
My politics are centre right, the majority position, and I used to vote Labour in Blair's days.

If I did not start the silly jokes, why am I the only one vilified?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,musket again
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 02:21 AM

Stringsinger may do well to read his original post followed by my post directly below it.

I'm not sure the thread has developed into anything. It has kept the spirit I advised it would.

As religion per se is only part of it, the wandering into other similar topics of dogmatic bullshit is, if anything, helping answer stringsinger's question.

I love the bit where our resident historian fails to see social comment on historical shame and a) fails to see the link to the shame of the Somme and b) demonstrates his inability to consider by jumping at the face value of the word. Racist eh? A bit of a compliment given your politics.

An extraordinary thing yesterday. I was driving home with Simon Mayo's drive time on the radio (He is working his way through playing those up for BBC folk awards this weekbby the way, Martin Simpson last night) and his guest was Sir Max Hastings.   Now. .my car has DAB so there, on the dashboard next to the speedo were the words "Max Hastings, journalist and author. "

DAB gets some flack for sound quality, we can now add that it doesn't recognise "eminent historian. " Mr Mayo asked him if he was comfortable with being controversial, he doesn't think he is. .....

The more I read and hear, the more I see why Keith worships him.




Mwah! Cuddlebuns xx

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 13 - 08:14 PM

It doesn't matter who started it instead of retaliating you should of told an adult before it got out of hand...(Ducks n deftly avoids flying slippers)

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Nov 13 - 05:44 PM

Musket didn't start it, Keith. Jack the Sailor started the first one, which should have died a death, then Stringsinger for some inexplicable reason started part 2, for which he has now apologised. I think you will find that all the arguments herein stem from those initial posts.

Ake. Anyone who thinks that a 'great thread' is one that starts on a completely specious premise simply to have a go at people that do not believe in God is seriously mistaken. As to 'almost every thread' being sabotaged, I think everyone knows that you are referring to just those where you post your dangerous dogma. A tiny fraction of what goes on here I am glad to say. If you feel that Mudcat has become unwelcoming may I suggest that you do the obvious?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 05:32 PM

That's how I feel about this unfunny nonsense as well Frank.

As I said already it is like a very bad script for "Monty Pythons Flying Circus"....the one which ended up in the bin.

I always supposed traditional musicians and music fans, were down to earth, sincere, seekers after truth?....This shower would give Alan Partridge a bad name.

It should have been a great thread, but almost every thread now is being sabotaged by these poseurs, who take so much time and effort to say nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 02:44 PM

Musket started it.
" read the servitude essay by Isaac Uminmassa "
Bit racist actually.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Stringsinger
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 02:03 PM

I want to apologize to everyone on Mudcat for continuing this specious thread, the premise of which I don't agree.

In fact, it seems to me that militant religion has created an" atheist "movement.

There might have been a time when non-belief was just another way of looking at things
but since the actions of violent and vituperative religionists have come to the fore, a war has been created.

I deplore the sarcastic, smart-assed comments that have attended this
sham of a discussion. The only reason that this thread continues is that it provides a forum for shallow criticisms and unfunny remarks by those unwittingly or willfully ignorant.

A reasonable understanding of why people adopt or reject religion would be useful if
nothing else than to reveal how these differing points of view reflect changes in the brain or culture.

I can understand, having once been religious, myself, how others who espouse their
ideas with enthusiasm or evangelism are motivated to do so. I left religion, not with animosity or pain but a recognition that religion serves no constructive purpose for me.
I don't see it as a means to ease the problems we face in society today.

The thread's title here, and make no mistake about it, is an attack on non-belief.
The false equivalency of non-belief to religion muddies the waters of clear thinking.

There are those who are angry in the so-called "atheist" community such as Christopher
Hitchens, but he was a combative guy to begin with. Dawkins never criticizes individuals but focuses his attention on the institution of religion where it belongs. Sam Harris and
Daniel Dennet take a philosophical view to the issue but not ad-hominem or accusative to any person.

In summary, I apologize to all for having subjected you so this attack ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket remembering
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 11:16 AM

Yeah.

I'm a dozy twat by Keith A of Hertford.

Military revisionism by Max Hastings

What's my reward? By Sir Max Hastings

This seems a decent gravy train by That Sheffield Bloke

The Butcher of The Somme by hundreds and thousands of distraught mothers and widows.

Bingo based religion, you know it makes sense by The co Messiahs and Associated Gnome.

I can spot talent when I see it xxx by conc.

Love you too cuddlybuns xxx by Musket

You're all speaking in memes by a Jerk the Sea Cadet.

Fuck me, where did that dinosaur come from? By Starry pete.




You may wish to visit WH Smiths and buy some of them. I hear your library was broken into and both your books were stolen.

Which is a shame.

Cos one of them wasn't even coloured in yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,troll replacing the troll who is not a troll
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 11:14 AM

Gosh sweetpants muskett!!! you are dead right.Kulturkeith@ Hateford is a real shocker.


Judging by his last post a fan of The Beano as well as t'telegraph and now definitely is a Daily Mail reader.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 10:22 AM

Have you read Cliff Fall, by Eileen Dover?
I have a few more we used to think were funny at juniors.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 10:13 AM

Wary? Mmmmm. Yes, but only in the way a way a teacher is wary of a recalcitrant child. I can see the potential there but, unfortunately, the underpants keep getting soiled. I have tried both carrot and stick to no avail. I can only leave it to your mighty hands, oh Messiah M, and hope that it does not get too smelly...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 09:59 AM

Trust me, you don't feature in any of my fantasies...

There isn't enough space to show all the contradictions, especially as you are not quite as consistent as you like to think you are. Which is good. If you were solidly in love with your warped view of the world, most would have dismissed you a long time ago, but whilst ever it is difficult to read you, there may be hope that there is a decent bloke trying to surface. But he is kept down by an apologist for a time warp little Englander who can't see beyond pandering to the establishment.

Have you read the servitude essay by Isaac Uminmassa yet?

Some of can read you know.. Even those of us in the crèche either read or can get the gist through looking at the pictures.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 09:39 AM

I only call someone "liar" when I catch them lying.
Like yourself Musket, when you claimed you had something by the historian Sheffield that contradicted me.
A lie.
You found no historian that did, so you had to lie to prop up your pathetic made up fantasies.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 09:21 AM

Hang on, just get Keith out of the way first..

Because you aren't interested in those who give the Palestinian view, you call them liars because they disagree with your warped dangerous view. If Israel has a point, and it certainly has the right to exist, the cause is drowned in your withering diatribe over other communities that have a right to exist. Perhaps persecution is the wrong word because neither side have let your Jesus in their lives.

Right, back now.

Hi delicious drawers! XxxxxX.

As you can see, I've brought another friend, Keith, along to play. You might be right about the teacher bit. I used to know a few just like him. Torygraph? Yes, he does quote from there from time to time. And The Daily M*il. Real teachers, you know, the good ones, tend to quote from The Guardian though.

In any event, he gives good entertainment value and is almost as far up his own arse as I am. Worryingly, he may be further.....

I see you and the associated gnome are still wary of each other. I do hope for the benefit of all the crèche that you learn to play together. Keith has told me of a good playground game he used to play, called British Bulldogs. I can't wait for us to try it out. You and I might get to wear nazi uniforms and whips, just like that nice Mr Mosely from the racing world.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 08:39 AM

Troubadour, there are well known instances of lying, like the faked massacre, and the dumping of bodies off the Marmara.

There are many people who put the Palestinian case here, and they do it very well.
Why do you object to just 3 of us putting Israel's case?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 08:26 AM

Tut tut, Conc. I thought you had more about you and could keep away when you said you would. Obviously yet another bout of 'fantasying'. Nice to see you trying out at least one more insult. Still not original and doesn't work but 2/10 for effort anyway.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 08:19 AM

"Troubadour, I only call people liar when they lie."

So all Palestinians lie all the time?
All WW1 soldiers whose accounts don't fit your bias are lying?
Anyone who points out that persecution of minorities is not safely classified as religious, rather than just different, is lying?

Let's face it, anybody who disagrees with you on any subject is lying!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 08:14 AM

"Why is it wrong for Israel's side to be given?"

It isn't,........until you refuse to recognise that there is another side!

WHICH YOU REGULARLY DO!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,troll replacing the troll who is not a troll
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 08:04 AM

Come back seaman staynes, sulky baby wizzjet and the rest of them joyless ball scratching, self righteous balloons..At least there was some sport to be had with them..

This new lot are even further up their own arses than the last lot!

Mind, the clown gnomet has come back, bridling and sidling with his shit eating grin on his smug little face to join shaw the arch fraud..you would have thought he had enough be now..but NO!!! he just cant resist airing his crap again..

But Lo! who is the kieth ahateford?..dear me must be a boy scout leader or a telegraph reading small liberal,,any way he JUst has to be a teacher with that attitude...I see muskett is still talking sense as usual..hows it going sweetpants sxxxx?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 04:20 AM


As a result, quite a bit has been revised.

Of course.
The age of the universe is known to be less now, but what I said was an established fact still is.
You were wrong to make your abusive and nasty challenge.
I was right and you were wrong again.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,musket giggling
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 04:15 AM

But but but. ..

That imaginary friend of yours created it all in seven days. It says so in your Bible.

Hawking talks bollocks then.

Zzzzzzzzz




Mind you, the final sentence of "A brief history of time" is somewhat unfortunate. You'd be surprised the number of God botherers who grasped at it. .... He did say afterwards that with hindsight he wouldn't have fed the fools, as he put it.

He may be fun to laugh at but Keith's simple naive approach to reading and quoting snippets with no room for context or debate is perhaps a good a reason as any why some of us are taking the piss out of philosophical threads, such as this one.

He represents the risk in making discovery accessible. for Clapton's sake nobody tell him Hawking based most of that work within his forming the grand unified theory (GUT. ) As a result, quite a bit has been revised. But as it is published, it might confuse Keith to hear that something published by someone he has heard of could be contradicted? But surely. ......

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 03:35 AM

Do you think Noël Coward enjoyed or regretted his swansong in the Italian Job?

How could anyone regret working with Michael Cain and Benny Hill?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 02:08 AM

"If you must quote Hawking, quote him in context."

I did.
That is why you can not put up anything to contradict

"Yet everything else he reads he throws in your face as being better than you"

Not everything, but Hawking does know more even that you Musket.
Likewise professional historians.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 06:59 PM

Well make sure he doesn't spend too much time in the pub with the locals, it may be infectious.

Don't worry, I've warned him.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 06:56 PM

"Science" has two syllables.

Ah, ya nit-picking owld bugger you! I'll have you know that, for the sake of that post, I'd taken to using the posh Beeb pronunciation "sarnce". One syllable! I'd even thought of calling Stephen Hawking "Hawks" for the sake of monosyllabic purity, but, as I hadn't asked him...

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,musket
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 06:15 PM

What gets me is that somewhere recently, might have been this thread, might have been one about eating baked beans, I forget.

Keith said he doesn't believe everything in the Bible literally. Yet everything else he reads he throws in your face as being better than you so shut up.

What you got against the Bible then Keith? Imagine him finding an eminent historian who disagrees with Max Hastings, the retired tabloid hack. He'd be spinning in circles the rest of his sad life.

If you must quote Hawking, quote him in context. His publications are prefaced with the philosophy of hypothesis. This allows a more assertive style of writing.

Did you know that or are text books dangerous when you are around?

At least political manifestos are unequivocal. ...

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 05:40 PM

Hawking.
"The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago."

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 05:34 PM

No.
He is quite emphatic Steve.
"At this time, the Big Bang, all the matter in the universe, would have been on top of itself. The density would have been infinite. It would have been what is called, a singularity."
http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 05:20 PM

"Science" has two syllables.

Yah·yah·yah ~~ silly old Steve can't count!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket between courses
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 04:13 PM

Well make sure he doesn't spend too much time in the pub with the locals, it may be infectious.

Hang on... my youngest lectures at Liverpool University. .... mind you, there aren't too many amateur scientists in the pubs down Toxteth. As my lad is doing a PhD research into microprocessor problems with quantum tunnelling, the only chips they understand come with fish. Only instead of asking if you want mushy peas they ask if you would like a semi rolex. .....



Noel Coward? Easy.   Turned the thread into scouse baiting now.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 03:50 PM

Is it just you or does Hertford have a commune of them?

Oi, wotchit, Co-M! My lad lives in Hertford. Bloody good scientist he is too!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 03:42 PM

Here's the thing, in words of one syllable (the word "Hawking" has two, so excuse me that one): I think there was a Big Bang. Hawking thinks there was a Big Bang. I don't know for sure that there was a Big Bang. Hawking don't know for sure that there was a Big Bang (he'd tell you that if you asked him). It looks like there was a Big Bang to both of us. But we just don't know for sure. We have to look to science for the facts which point to a Big Bang. The facts do seem to point that way, big time. Could just be that the Big Bang did not take place, but I doubt that, and I think Hawking doubts that too. So there.

Hey, look at that ! Words of one syllable (except for "Hawking" - Stephen, may I call you "Steve"? Great name, you know!)

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 03:02 PM

My statement.
"Steve, the expansion is an established fact.
There is debate about the details."

I was challenged in a most insulting and derogatory way.
Why?

Troubadour, I only call people liar when they lie.
Why is it wrong for Israel's side to be given?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 12:55 PM

Apologies for omitting the diacritic on Noël. Shudder to think what he might have had to say to me about it...!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 12:52 PM

I think he will have enjoyed it ~~ his tastes in parts were as varied and versatile as his achievements so far as I can see. A man of the theatre I much admire, you will gather... & it was after all a most distinguished film, and his part, tho smallish, quite vital.

So now we are discussing Noel Coward ... How far can a drift drift before entropy takes over and it falls off the edge, I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 12:43 PM

1100!

I was very fond of my Morris 1100.

Michael, I wasn't commenting on the expertise of fellow mudcatters, especially as this thread alone has regular scientists, teachers and wringer outers for one armed window cleaners... Just that with the usual suspects, myself included, weighing in on any subject, you aren't going to get anywhere with such weighty matters! After all, one whiff of this subject and Keith looks up two quotes and makes his mind up, about as neatly as I make my bed....

Beginning of entropy as a concept is in itself abstract. As entropy is why the second law of thermodynamics holds, then the arrow of time has to be in one direction. The Big Bang is based on grabbing hold of the string attached to said arrow of time and following it back to where it started.

My needing to understand such matters ended in 1999 when my own research into vibration came to a sort of conclusion. (Fascinated to see one of my equations has been thrown in the bin. I was on his viva panel.)

Of course, Keith may already be looking up two more quotes to put me down and I may be peddling in made up shit. Beauty is, however, in the eye of the beholder.


(He may not. The lazy sod still hasn't looked up that essay on servility to your betters by Isaac Uminmassa that I asked him to read.)




Do you think Noël Coward enjoyed or regretted his swansong in the Italian Job?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 11:51 AM

Thank you, Ian. That was a much better, more helpful answer than I ever got on that old thread - "Beginning of entropy" quite an apprehensible concept.

As to appropriateness of asking on this forum ~~ tho peopled by folkies, many of them have other interests & qualifications too. Why, I was even a theatre critic too, way back in the day... So ask me about Æschylus or Noel Coward or Pirandello or Corneille or Beaumont·&·Fletcher, why dontcha, and see how well I can waffle...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 11:37 AM

"That is shown from diaries, letters and recollections."

If, and only if, you call all who didn't agree liars, which is, without doubt what you do.

You do the same with Israel, putting only the one side and calling the other side liars and murderers when many more Palestinians have been, and still are being, killed by IDF than vice versa.

Your idea of balance is "My side is right, so I won't look at contrary evidence".

Funny that!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 10:49 AM

Don't worry Keith.

As they say...

He who laughs last doesn't understand the joke.






Michael. If the Big Bang happened in the forest, we might not hear it anyway as the jury is out on whether it makes a sound. Mind you, if I wanted to know what went Big Bang, a group of folk music aficionados might not be the first group I would ask?

In "A brief History of Time" Prof. Hawking does point out it is metaphor, in the same way as relating the occurrence to a point in time. For time to have meaning, position must too, giving us a four dimensional reference. Hawking notes that as the first three dimensions are irrelevant, (it occurred everywhere and is expanding from everywhere) therefore the final dimension, time, has no significance.

The 13.7 billion years relates to a theoretical starting point of entropy, and not to an explosion of the sort that would have my dog wake up barking.

In order to explain it to people who either don't buy or haven't figured out how to take the wrapper off New Scientist, such constructs are necessary. I'm about as qualified as you can get in my particular physics interest, but I can't get beyond requiring the comfort blanket of big bangs and time, and I suspect that goes for us all, the good Prof included.

(I buy it to look at the pretty pictures of course.)

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 09:34 AM

Just to remind ~~

I once, some years ago, OPd a thread called "What went Big Bang?", which ran for quite a while (Sep 09 - Nov 12):

To summarise ---

Answer came there none.