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Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!

JHW 06 Sep 13 - 06:38 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 06 Sep 13 - 07:01 AM
GUEST 06 Sep 13 - 12:20 PM
EBarnacle 07 Sep 13 - 12:26 AM
Mr Red 07 Sep 13 - 07:08 AM
Bill D 07 Sep 13 - 11:38 AM
Acme 07 Sep 13 - 01:59 PM
JohnInKansas 07 Sep 13 - 02:56 PM
Acme 07 Sep 13 - 04:12 PM
GUEST 08 Sep 13 - 04:45 AM
Norval 08 Sep 13 - 09:14 AM
GUEST,JHW 09 Sep 13 - 03:21 PM
Newport Boy 10 Sep 13 - 07:11 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 10 Sep 13 - 09:45 AM
Newport Boy 10 Sep 13 - 01:22 PM
JohnInKansas 10 Sep 13 - 05:51 PM
JHW 11 Sep 13 - 06:12 AM
Newport Boy 11 Sep 13 - 07:28 AM
JohnInKansas 11 Sep 13 - 11:56 AM
GUEST,Rahere 11 Sep 13 - 02:13 PM
JHW 27 Sep 13 - 05:32 PM
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Subject: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: JHW
Date: 06 Sep 13 - 06:38 AM

I bought this 2nd hand laptop last year. HP dual core Intel and 'designed for ms Windows XP'.
I prefer the full height screen and XP.
Been fine till this week when I get a Microsoft message on start up saying 'this Windows may not be genuine' and other boxes. Then it blacks out my desktop picture. I've been to a multitude of Windows validation pages but none lead anywhere. Even when I'm in IE it demands a Firefox WGA plug in. Tried that, won't install. Copying the url back into IE I got to a page saying 'type in your product key' I have that on the underside of the mc, looks original to me - but the page had NO BOX to type it in!
While I'm typing this, up has come another Windows Genuine Advantage box offering the lie of validation or Buy a License. So I tried Buy a License but it just took me back to the uninstallable WGA plug in.
An earlier page said they wouldn't sell me XP anyway! I bought this laptop because I've seen other folks 7 and 8.
What finally prompted this thread was I somehow got a screen saying Validating, a green thing going round and a message saying 'this may take a few minutes - do not navigate away from this page' I had a cup of tea, a shower, another cup of tea then gave up on it still going round and decided I'd get more sense from Mudcatters than Bill Gates. I'm incensed by the dog in the manger attitude of putting the mockers on my machine NOW. It came with 3 months guarantee but that's long gone.
Thee is a tick box offered to turn off the 'notifications' No knowing if it will work but that states that doing that will turn off the XP updates. I know they'll end next April anyway.

Any ideas please? Many thanks.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 06 Sep 13 - 07:01 AM

JHW

Can't help directly, but there are some suggestions on this page: Unable to complete Genuine Windows Validation.

If it turn out to be an invalid copy, you can pick up a copy of XP/Pro for about £20 on ebay or Amazon (can't remember which offhand, but I could check if you want to know). I did that earlier this year to run a virtual copy under my Ubuntu system. I wanted to retire my old PC but had a few Windows programs that don't have good enough equivalents under Linux - principally Finale. (The virtual copy was much faster than my old hardware copy!). For my use I wasn't bothered about the fact XP is going out of service and it was a lot cheaper than other version of Windows.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 13 - 12:20 PM

My copy of XP (which now runs as a virtual OS) has been re-installed on various editions of this computer many times. I started to get problems with validation, so I disconnected from the web and followed the (automated) telephone route to validation. It's worked a number of times.

Phil


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 12:26 AM

Make sure you insist on a human helping you. As it said in the title of a '70's story in Analog, Computers don't Argue.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 07:08 AM

If I was writing a virus I would search out rebel copies of Windows and force this kind of symptom. But would have grabbed all the sensitive info back first.

Who Knows but if you ended-up re-installing you would either hide their evidence or inveigle the virus deeper into the system.

Just a thought.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 11:38 AM

genuine Windows, from 95 to Win 8.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: Acme
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 01:59 PM

There is no point in calling Microsoft about Windows XP because they are no longer supporting it. I'd go online and buy a new clean OEM version (get the Pro level and it is more robust).

Google shopping search on Windows XP OEM

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 02:56 PM

Microsoft should continue to offer security patches for WinXP for another few months.

Microsoft has NEVER provided technical support for "OEM" versions of anything. The "OEM" means "Original Equipment Manufacturer," and terms of sale when the computer maker buys the license require that the machine manufacturer who sells it must provide all technical support and is the only one who can ever have been expected to "support" an OEM copy.

The OEM contract, between Microsoft and the machine maker, actually prohibits resale of the license except with a machine on which that copy is preinstalled. Since "recovery copies" are sometimes necessary, and since some builders were overly optimistic about how many machines they'd sell and have lots of "extra licenses," aftermarket OEM copies are common, and most of them probably can be "validated;" but there's always the suspicion that an OEM copy may have been installed on another machine and you may have difficulty convincing them that your specific copy is only on your one-and-only machine.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: Acme
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 04:12 PM

Right. At this point OEM is as good as anything else because support is minimal or non-existent. I go through NewEgg when I'm buying any OEM software.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 04:45 AM

OEM copies of Windows are also legally sold with motherboards to users like myself. I last bought a pre-built desktop with Win95, and that was a second machine for the family. I normally build my own machines and have bought about 6 OEM copies of XP over the years. (I don't have 6 XP machines - most were built for friends.)

A PCPro article a few years ago had an interview with a Microsoft licensing exec who confirmed that OEM copies were valid, and that Microsoft treated them as tied to the motherboard.

In the past, I have had Win95 & Win98 OEM copies marked 'ONLY FOR SALE WITH A DELL PC' or similar. These are what JiK identified above. I saw many fewer such for WinXP - most were general OEM.

The other point about OEM versions is that they are eligible for normal retail upgrades, but as JiK & SRS say, they get no technical support from MS.

Phil


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: Norval
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 09:14 AM

WGA (Windows Genuine Advantage)

Wikipedia explanation   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Genuine_Advantage


WGA removal tools

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Uninstallers/RemoveWGA.shtml

http://www.wikihow.com/Remove-Windows-Genuine-Advantage-Notifications

http://voices.yahoo.com/how-disable-windows-genuine-advantage-notifications-646031.html


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 03:21 PM

GUEST Phil
Date: 06 Sep 13 - 12:20 PM

'I disconnected from the web and followed the (automated) telephone route to validation. It's worked a number of times.'

Thanks, How do I do this please?
John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: Newport Boy
Date: 10 Sep 13 - 07:11 AM

John - I'm the Guest above. Mudcat isn't working for me recently - up to a minute to load a page, frequently offline - and I'm not bothering to sign in while I'm browsing. I sometimes forget to login when I want to post.

This is my third attempt at this. Last night Mudcat was offline, I typed the post this morning, but Mudcat was offline again when I tried to submit, so I went out and left the computer ready to try again when I returned. To add to my woes, we had a power interruption while I was out, so I lost the message. Hope we're lucky this time.

The last time I installed XP was a year or so ago, so I can't recall the detailed steps, but when the initial installation is finished, XP calls a new boot. Do this with no internet connection.

You will be invited to validate Windows (a pop-up, I think). Go ahead and you should get the choice of connecting or validating by phone. I think you have to identify your country to get the phone number.

The automated line asks for an input of about 5 groups of 5 characters - this may be the Product Key or a set of characters given on screeen (I don't recall). In return it gives another code key about the same length to type in, and this validates the installation.

I'm inclined to think that there isn't much checking involved in this validation for XP these days. My last 3 installs have been in different virtual machines running on the same underlying hardware. Microsoft say the key for OEM copies is tied to the motherboard, but I don't know how much information about the actual hardware is passed through the virtual machine.

Phil


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 10 Sep 13 - 09:45 AM

Detailed info for phone validation is on this page: How to contact a Microsoft Product Activation Center by telephone, but essentially as Phil described:



To start the Product Activation Wizard, follow these steps:

    Click Start.
    Click All Programs, and then click Accessories.
    Click System Tools.
    Click Activate Windows.

In the Product Activation Wizard, follow these steps:

    Click Use the automated phone system to activate.
    Click the drop-down menu, select the location that is nearest to you, and then click Next.
    The Product Activation Center telephone number is displayed at the top of the window.


I used it once years ago after I changed a motherboard - which I think is strictly not allowed - and they validated my old copy for me with no trouble.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: Newport Boy
Date: 10 Sep 13 - 01:22 PM

Thanks, Mick - I hadn't found that page and I've always done it when prompted on first boot, so I didn't think to look in the menus.

If I recall correctly, the PCPro interview had the Microsoft rep saying that they would accept a like-for-like motherboard replacement (or as near as currently possible) but as I said earlier, I don't think the automated system for XP is too fussy these days.

Phil


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Sep 13 - 05:51 PM

One of the reasons for the OEM license, and for its different treatment, is that some OEM builders make changes to the OS that Microsoft has no knowledge about and can't support. While not all OEM builders do so, the number who do makes it almost impossible for Microsoft to know whether their technical support is really good for an installed OEM OS.

In ancient times, some builders changed keyboard scan codes, used different (non-standard) plugs on mouse and keyboard, and sometimes things like peculiar scan rates/resolutions on monitors on the theory it would make users "captives" of their stuff. (Nobody else's stuff would work.)

More recently, the most obvious mods have been to provide recovery/reinstallation features, and sometimes diagnostics for troubleshooting - to avoid including an installation DVD. (If your hard drive fails, there's a backup copy of the OS in a hidden partition on the hard drive so you can reinstall it from the drive that doesn't work back onto the drive that quit working, if you use our recovery utility that you can't find because you deleted the icon that was on the desktop when we shipped it since we didn't tell you what it was for and you never used it ???? )

NOT ALL OEM COPIES of the same OS version are the same, or the same as a Microsoft FRP version. In normal use, they all look very much alike, but for diagnostics and repair/recovery they can be rather different - and only the one who put one together really knows what that one is.

[At least that was the Microsoft story some time ago.]

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: JHW
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 06:12 AM

Thanks to Phil, Mick, John everyone who is offering help (and Bill for the joke).
I'm not trying to validate a newly installed XP.
The problem I have is with a laptop I have had nearly a year, 2nd hand and has been fine but Windows now suddenly say has counterfeit XP and each time I switch on I have to run a gauntlet of screen messages and stuff.
I have now managed to get to the web 'validation' but am given no chance to enter my 5 x 5 code nor can I know what code they are seeing, Windows site tells me they have blocked it as it is already in use.
I have two older LTs running XP inc one ancient I never use. I wonder if I could use it's code to square up the problem? (perhaps using the phone to avoid the web looking over my shoulder)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: Newport Boy
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 07:28 AM

Since XP has been running fine for nearly a year, and reading your original descriptions of the symptoms again, I have to suspect a virus. I may be wrong, but Microsoft allow 30 days for validation and if you've gone well past that before problems occurred, something has changed.

If I'm right, any attempt to validate this installation may run into the same problems. If you have an installation disk I would re-install XP - allow a full day for the job by the time you get it updated and other software installed. Validate immediately after the initial installation, before attempting any updates.

If you don't have an installation disk, you may still be able to create one from the recovery partition on the laptop, although you won't have any way of verifying it before you wipe the existing installation (unless you have a spare machine to try it on).

Failing all else, try the Product Key from the older XP machine. Any valid Product Key can validate any copy of XP, although you may still have the problem of Microsoft identifying the key as belonging to another machine (if that's a genuine notification). I would definitely use the phone validation - I suspect it doesn't check as much as on-line validation.

I have managed (purely for test purposes) to install & validate the same copy of XP on 3 physical & 2 virtual machines at the same time. Only one of these copies is still running - in case MS is listening!

Phil


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 11:56 AM

I can recall three demands to revalidate Windows installations in the past. Two were with WinXP and one with Vista.

All three cases were apparently the result of changes to hardware on the same machines where the OS was originally installed, twice when I doubled the RAM and once when I had to replace the hard drive (and used a new HD twice as big as the original) - on 3 different machines.

Recollection is that the revalidation was more complex (and annoying) than it might have been but there were no real problems with getting it done. I believe I did resort to the 'phone validation in at least one case when the web method balked.

All three of those incidents were several years ago and maybe I've just repressed the memories of the pain and suffering. ...

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 02:13 PM

Write the number down and save it carefully if you have to do it again.

I'm constantly irritated by MS checking I'm not pirating them when they pirated me in copyrighting work I placed in the public domain in 1968 on bit-mapped fonts, and the oneperday.com utility I placed in the public domain in the 1980s, taking an 8-byte machine code routine and inflating it to over 100k w
of sheer noise. I know it was based on my routine as I put a 1-bit null marker in at a particular point just to detect piracy, and it's there in Microsoft's routine. It's a function which checks the date of an executable file and if it's before today's date, runs it, resetting the daye to today's: if it's today's, it stops. They named it something else, don't recall what, and if they object to my reverse engineering their code, I didn't: I bit-searched theirs using the code I wrote and used the old Windows 3 code editor on the section it found. But you try suing them!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Genuine Windows?!?!
From: JHW
Date: 27 Sep 13 - 05:32 PM

On start up, in the blue screens before the desk top appears, the message box has now changed to 'As you have not resolved this you will receive no further updates' *****! It's them who wouldn't resolve it.
I have no way to counter or verify their accusation that my XP is not genuine and nor in a multitude of screens is there anything I can do to resolve it. For instance one link says 'buy a new licence' (as if I'd buy anything from bastards like these)
But there are none on offer.
There was an option to turn off their 'notifications' but this would stop updates. As they say they've stopped them now anyway I've now clicked this. Some pop-up boxes have stopped but there's still a 'woe betide' banner on my desktop and the desktop is still all black ie no picture, just the icons. I can put the picture back but it goes black again next start-up. This is before I'm on the internet so there must be a file somewhere in the Windows stuff that's taking the image off.
Any ideas please where this might be lurking?
Long term I guess I'll have to learn how to install and use some other OS all together which would be useful knowledge but be hard going at my level of technology.
Thanks again, John
(I have done a full system virus scan and tune up fix of registry errors etc but no threats found)


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