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Adele: A great American pop singer

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GUEST,Tunesmith 07 Sep 13 - 02:46 PM
Bonzo3legs 07 Sep 13 - 03:47 PM
Ron Davies 07 Sep 13 - 04:04 PM
Gibb Sahib 07 Sep 13 - 04:43 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 07 Sep 13 - 04:59 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 07 Sep 13 - 05:18 PM
Gibb Sahib 07 Sep 13 - 06:22 PM
GUEST,Ian Gill 07 Sep 13 - 06:45 PM
GUEST,Allan Conn 08 Sep 13 - 03:29 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Sep 13 - 03:46 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Sep 13 - 03:55 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Sep 13 - 04:05 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Sep 13 - 04:11 AM
GUEST,Allan Conn 08 Sep 13 - 05:10 AM
GUEST,Lavengro 08 Sep 13 - 05:54 AM
Gibb Sahib 08 Sep 13 - 06:27 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Sep 13 - 07:15 AM
GUEST,Allan Conn 08 Sep 13 - 07:18 AM
GUEST,Grishka 08 Sep 13 - 07:21 AM
Dave Hanson 08 Sep 13 - 07:22 AM
Dave Hanson 08 Sep 13 - 07:25 AM
Will Fly 08 Sep 13 - 07:26 AM
Dave Hanson 08 Sep 13 - 07:46 AM
Mr Happy 08 Sep 13 - 08:52 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Sep 13 - 09:56 AM
Mr Happy 08 Sep 13 - 10:08 AM
GUEST,Grishka 08 Sep 13 - 10:16 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Sep 13 - 11:27 AM
GUEST,CS 08 Sep 13 - 11:39 AM
Amergin 08 Sep 13 - 01:27 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 08 Sep 13 - 02:12 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Sep 13 - 02:52 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 08 Sep 13 - 03:26 PM
Mr Red 08 Sep 13 - 04:38 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 08 Sep 13 - 05:14 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 08 Sep 13 - 05:15 PM
Gibb Sahib 08 Sep 13 - 09:09 PM
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MGM·Lion 09 Sep 13 - 04:15 AM
GUEST,Grishka 09 Sep 13 - 04:30 AM
Mr Happy 09 Sep 13 - 05:16 AM
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GUEST,Tunesmith 09 Sep 13 - 07:50 AM
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Subject: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 02:46 PM

I'm sure even dedicated folkies can't have missed the pop phenomenon that is Adele!
The words "authentic" and "natural" are often used to describe her; now, this is rather ironic as, surely, she is just another, in a long line, of British singers adopting an American type accent.
On forums, and Youtube, Americans have commented on the great difference between her speaking voice ( London ) and her singing voice.
A while back on a Mudcat thread, an American poster commented how she hated the way country singer Reba McEntire exaggerated her normal speaking voice!
Well that's nothing compared to hearing an singer from over here adopting an accent from over there!
However, because adopting an American type accent is the norm for pop singers over here, most British pop fans aren't bothered... or even notice!


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 03:47 PM

And over here, her name seems to have picked up a W in place of the L!


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 04:04 PM

"the pop phenomenon".    "pop" is the operative word.    It's actually pretty easy--thank goodness-- to ignore pop phenomena when you're busy with other things.

There's everything from old country singers (long pre-Reba) to doo-wop to singing Brahms, Bach, Mozart, Verdi etc.

And then there's also the rest of life.

But it is interesting to hear about the various approaches to accents.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 04:43 PM

She sings American-style music. Whoop-dee-do. I cooked a Chinese-style dinner last night.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 04:59 PM

Oh, dear Gibb!

"She sings American-style music". So?

I think you mean she sings music inspired by music created in America; which in turn has its origins in Africa, Eastern and Western European folk music/popular music, and a pile of other sources.

So pray tell me Gibb, if an Englishman performs a blues number, does he have to use an American accent?

If an American sang "Raglan Road" does he/she have to adopt an Irish accent?

And, finally do you think British/Irish singing adopting American accents is "no problem"?


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 05:18 PM

Ron Davies, don't ignore Adele!
She has become - in a short time - one of the most admired/revered artist in pop/rock/soul - you name it - history!
Admired/revered, I might add, not just by the fans, but by - it seems - every other pop/rock/blues artist out there!
She is very impressive!
Just very impressive with a phoney accent!


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 06:22 PM

So?

Exactly.

I think you mean she sings music inspired by music created in America

Like I said, American-style music.

There are plenty of other threads on singing accent to answer your rhetorical questions, Tunesmith. The conventions are different in every case.

In at least one of those I have stated my observation that some people from the U.K. seem particularly bothered by this concept of a "phoney accent" and/or by the practice of singing in a different pronunciation than one speaks. You'll find this sort of botheration does not adhere in many places in the world.

That leaves it down to an issue of aesthetics within a particular smallish sphere — a certain brand of mainly-U.K. mainly-Folk enthusiasts. It's a valid aesthetic preference, but it's a pretty irrelevant issue outside that sphere.

FWIW, I am in USA and I rarely encounter Adele's music. I think I heard it in the dentist's office last, when I had something done to my teeth in April. When I do hear Adele, I see her as "British."


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Ian Gill
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 06:45 PM

I think Adele has a superb voice. I also think Amy Winehouse had a superb voice. Given her ear for great singers and great music I am sure she would have arrived at folk music sooner or later, a pity for all of us her time was cut short. Adele may, who knows ?


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 03:29 AM

I see no reason to discount or ignore something just because it is part of the pop music world. Or at least if you do then it can be your own loss. My wife bought both Adele's last album and Emili Sande's album and they get played a lot in the car. They're both crammed with great songs which surely is the main thing.

Plus what does Adele do? She goes on the Brits and stands fully clothed in front of a guy plying a piano and sings a beautiful song which takes off and pushes her into a different level from where she'd been. No overbearing backing track. No gyrating whatever in front of the camera. No lines of near naked dancers shaking their butts etc. Surely that is a good thing for music and song?


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 03:46 AM

I think she's great. Flawed! But great!
I also think she is a terrific example of what "rock schools" can produce.
She and her team obviously have got a great command of song writing techniques and sound reproduction.

But, she is a false messiah, because singing in that contrived voice does disqualify her from being up called a great pop/rock singer.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 03:55 AM

Gibb Shaib said

"I am in USA and I rarely encounter Adele's music. I think I heard it in the dentist's office last, when I had something done to my teeth in April. When I do hear Adele, I see her as "British." "

Well, the States made her!
She has certainly made the biggest impact of any "serious" pop musician for a long time.
She won a "best song" Oscar. She was Letterman, Ellen etc .
It would have been very hard to miss her.
And, then her " overweight" appearance created another massive debate reaching beyond pop music.
And, she has in a relative short time become one of the most "loved" pop stars in history.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 04:05 AM

As I've said previously, one of the most impressive things about Adele is the esteem in which she is held by fellow musicians ( this doesn't happen to the likes of Justin Beiber or One Direction!)
There is a series of youtube clips with stars from the pop/entertainment world waxing lyrical over Adele.

EVERYONE LOVES ADELE!


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 04:11 AM

Finally!
The clip below, from a live Albert Hall concert, captures a lot of the Adele phenomenon and clearly highlights the great difference between her speaking and singing voice.
Folkies should like the way the crowd "sing along".




Adele Live


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 05:10 AM

"Well, the States made her!"

She's certainly as big in the States as she is here. Three number one singles in the US compared with just one here. Though both 19 and 21 (her albums) reached number one here. 19 didn't quite make it to the top spot in the States but 21 which of course is the music most people know her from did. The album has sold 28 million copies worldwide with over 10 million of those sales being in the US


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Lavengro
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 05:54 AM

Personally I don't really understand why some get so upset about this? As much as the UK has influenced other english speaking countries musically, the musical influence from the USA has been even greater (IMO).

The vast majority of people in the last 50 years-ish have "learned" to sing from USA based singers and performers, or from those who have been influenced by USA based performers. Let's be frank, The Beatles didn't exactly sound like scouse scallys did they?

If you meet (for example) a Japanese person who learned english from an Aussie or a Canadian they inevitably have the accent "fingerprint" of their teacher, formally or informally taught.

I personally see no difference in the above and some of the devotees of Trad English Folk adopting the patented working class, countrified nasal twang regardless of their regional/class origins.

I suspect that is because they learned to sing in that way from other singers that they admire/respect.

And let's be honest, some accents are just not that "musical" are they?


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 06:27 AM

You guys seem to have an inflated sense of how much people in the States actually care about Adele.

There are many popular music artists in the USA. If one is "made" by the States, that is because the States tend to "make" people in general. It is the largest market for English-language stuff. Many UK, Canadian (Bieber???), Australia (back in the 80s!), etc artists, especially if they are performing in the "international language" of Rock, R&B, etc, will have proportionately more sales in USA...because it's a bigger market.

One of the few reasons non-USA artists might not achieve this in some cases is..... wait for it.... they sing in a "funny" accent. Adele does not sing in a "funny" accent; she sings in the accent which is customary to the genre of music. That accent is not native to all the people in USA. US performers also adopt that accent when singing in that genre. Nearly ever performer, for example, on the "American Idol" talent show, whatever creed or color or regional origin, sings in that Jello Pudding accent; they would be kicked out of the audition by Mr. Simon Cowell if they didn't. We've gone over all of this before.

But back to the inflated sense of how much people in the States actually care about Adele.

Ever stop to think that because you're in England, and because Adele is English, people there are proud of her and therefore your media bombards you with her stuff a lot? And they try to make you think Americans care about Adele because, well, USA still functions (God knows why) as this sort of "proof" of glamour and success?

In USA, we have no reason to care about her more than any of the other artists who "make" it here. Adele sings very well, but here you can find Black gals "on the street corner" singing like that. They have the advantage of being local and *seeming* more native to the music genre. They just don't have the marketing and star power. One of the paradoxes of Adele and her ilk is that their nationality gives them more leeway to perform "Black" American music as (often more privileged) White women. White women who try that in USA are often taken to task, either for "appropriating" or as "inauthentic." The attitude towards foreign women seems to be "well, they don't know any better."

Adele owes her success, in USA, like many such artists, to having a good amount of talent but more so to marketing and production. Adele could become the Big Fish in Little England, and then get picked up in the US as a star already; a similarly artist starting in the US would be ignored because there is way too much initial competition and too many people who won't give a chance to a fat White lady singing standard R&B. Some catchy songs were produced that she sang on and they were filtered into the pop music distribution machine, to be consumed by the large US market that eats anything that sounds reasonably appropriate to their taste. You're kidding yourself if you think the USA doesn't have singers like that, in that genre. But Adele was the one "served" at the time, a couple years back or whatever. Since then, other people have been on the menu.

Like I said, last time I heard "the Adele song" was about 6 months ago in the dentist office, and I have no idea when before that. I only remember this time because the dental assistant is pretty cute and I was thinking of asking her out, and she was trying to get to know me, too. "The Adele Song" was playing faintly as part of the Muzak and the assistant asked me if I like Adele. I thought, "uh, wait, what? Oh yeah, this mumbly-growly song that I kept hearing everywhere 1-2 years ago w/ its incessant 'Top Model' runway beat...uhh... I could do without it." But since I didn't want to totally blow my chance with the dentist chick, I said something like, "Uh, she's OK," followed up by telling her what sort of music I was realling interested in. That turned out to be a good move, because it turned out she was interested in some of the same. And I don't think, given her stated musical tastes, she was really interested in Adele at all; it was just there playing and it was something for small-talk.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 07:15 AM

Gibb Sahib said:

"One of the few reasons non-USA artists might not achieve this in some cases is..... wait for it.... they sing in a "funny" accent"

Now that statement is interesting because EVERY time I hear/read an American commenting on how we speak over here, they something like,
"We just love your British accent!"
NEVER, " We aren't struck with your funny British accent".

And, getting back to Adele. She is different. People love her personality! Big time! More so - I would say - than any other pop star ever!
For one reason alone, people generally don't even know what the personality is of the majority of pop singers!

I would say that Adele is admired/loved on more levels than any pop singer in history!

I would safely say she resonates with women like NO OTHER female pop star ever!

However, her next album is going to make her the biggest pop star in history or...


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 07:18 AM

"You guys seem to have an inflated sense of how much people in the States actually care about Adele"

Can't speak for the others but all I was doing was giving the hard facts. 10,500 million units sold in the States in the few years it has been out is a massive seller. It has sold more than Dark Side Of The Moon and almost as much as Sgt Peppers and they've had decades of a start on her. Going by sales she is as popular in the States as she is here. All I was suggesting was the fact that you are in the States is not the primary reason that you don't encounter her music. I am sure there are many people in the UK who are out of touch with aspects of popular culture and rarely here her music too.

Actually I recall one episode of (either American Idol or American X-Factor) when the judges collectively put their heads in their hands and said "not another bloody Adele song" as yet another in a long line of young American girls belted her way through one of the songs.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 07:21 AM

Show business is business, emotions are its merchanise. This notably includes all those stories about nationality, "talent", "discovery", etc. The very idea that solo singers are the main artistic influence on their music is a such a cherished myth. Typical pop and TV consumers actually wish to buy such myths and do not pay much attention to sophisticated details of pronunciation, breathing etc. (Consequently, stories that have nothing to do with musical quality at all, e.g. about body weight, beauty, clothing styles, drug abuse, love life, etc. are happily interwoven into the discussions by the fans and their providers.)

Summary: if you like the music, don't say "she is good", say "it is good".


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 07:22 AM

For guest Ian Gill, Adele will never arrive at folk music simply because there is not the amount of money in it that there is in pop.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 07:25 AM

and Bonzo, the only time I've ever heard her reffered to as ' Adewe ' is by you, how do you pronounce that ? what does it mean ? is it your pet name for her ?

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 07:26 AM

Who's Adele?


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 07:46 AM

Or do you mean Adewe ?

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 08:52 AM

This isn't a new trend in commercialised music, aka pop.

The producers' motive is to sell their wares & in order to achieve sales, they'll use whatever ploys work


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 09:56 AM

Mr Happy said:

"This isn't a new trend in commercialised music, aka pop.

The producers' motive is to sell their wares & in order to achieve sales, they'll use whatever ploys work"

Well, I don't know if you've been following this thread or know anything about the Adele "phenomenon".

But, she has bucked the "commercial trend" in so many different ways!

First, her appearance! To put it bluntly: She's overweight!
Secondly, she often uses pared down productions. For example one of her biggest numbers, has a simple piano accompaniment.
Thirdly, she comes across as having no airs about her. The exact opposite of the usual "prima donna".
Fourthly, she writes - or co-writes - most of her own stuff.

Live and simple!


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 10:08 AM

But, she has bucked the "commercial trend" in so many different ways!

IMO many people expect to hear products which sound like or look like images they've been conditioned to, via advertising etc


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 10:16 AM

There are many kinds of "phenomenons" in the music business. My point was that few of them are really related to exceptional achievements in terms of vocal technique etc., contrary to what the PR machinery tries to tell us. Notably, "... Got Talent" has nothing to do with genuine casting.

Of course the quality of pop music varies; it can well be decent and enjoyable. (What else can I say, having made it myself, as presumably many Mudcatters. We'd rather claim a varied love life than be called prostitutes or gigolos.)


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 11:27 AM

Griska said:


"There are many kinds of "phenomenons" in the music business. My point was that few of them are really related to exceptional achievements in terms of vocal technique etc., contrary to what the PR machinery tries to tell us. Notably, "... Got Talent" has nothing to do with genuine casting"

BUT, it's other singers, from Julie Andrews to Benonce to anybody you care to name, who are raving about Adele singing/songwriting and that should make one sit up and listen!


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 11:39 AM

For a while back there, UK pop acts seemed to ditch the fake American singing accent in favour of more native tones (eg: The Streets, Gorillaz, Lilly Allen, Just Jack among others) maybe the impact of the Brit-pop phenomenon has run it's course and we're back to business as normal now?


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Amergin
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 01:27 PM

I see a lot of bawling in this thread...who gives a fuck what her accent is when she sings? What matters is that she can actually sing. I have a recording of her singing a Bob Dylan song...amazingly beautiful...in sharp contrast to the harsh accent she speaks in...


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 02:12 PM

Adele who?


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 02:52 PM

Amergin asks "...who gives a fuck what her accent is when she sings"

Who? Well, clearly I do!

Why, because it's phoney!

But, she's free to do that, of course, but I do object when the words "authentic" and "natural" are used to describe her.
Why, because singing in a mock foreign accent is anything but authentic and natural!

Indeed, it's unpatriotic!

In fact, I've written to my our noble leader, Mr Cameron, suggesting that such behaviour should be considered an act of treason!

Off to the Tower with her!


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 03:26 PM

Will you write him in h'English, or proper Oxbridge?


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 04:38 PM

It may seem odd for a Brit to sound American but at the end of the day, does she entertain?

Not that I have listened that much but what I have heard is pretty good. Way above the average pap. Good on 'er.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 05:14 PM

My stupid attempts at humo(u)r apart, she is pretty good. Just listened on youtube. Not my kind of music, but good. Strong voice, understandable words.
Echo Mr Red.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 05:15 PM

Well, singing in a false accent to me is wrong!
For you, "wrong" might include singing out of tune, playing the wrong chords, a chiche arrangement, predictable lyrics...

As I've said before, Adele can never be the "real deal";
however, some day the "real deal" will emerge from the UK.
Someone who can sing music born out of Americana but layered with British sensibilities...and a British accent,
Because without the accent it's always going to be - at least - one step removed from the "real deal".

Indeed, I predict that there will come a time when music fans will shake their heads in disbelief at the acceptance of these phoney accents.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 09:09 PM

GUEST,Tunesmith -

As I've said before, Adele can never be the "real deal";
however, some day the "real deal" will emerge from the UK.
Someone who can sing music born out of Americana but layered with British sensibilities...and a British accent,
Because without the accent it's always going to be - at least - one step removed from the "real deal".


Kinda reminds me of the old blackface minstrels: "Born of Negrophilia, but with White people sensibilities." Their music was realer than the real thing, baby! It even made it big in England!—and the English knew talent when they saw it - the genuine Negro music of the States.

Or better yet - Reminds me of homeopathy:
The more diluted you make it, the stronger it gets. The more further away you get from the actual thing, the closer you get to the real deal.

Keep spinning the nonsense around and maybe, if you squint, it will appear to make sense.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 02:25 AM

Gibb Sahib, you really should think before you write such nonsense!

"The more diluted you make it, the stronger it gets. The more further away you get from the actual thing, the closer you get to the real deal.

Keep spinning the nonsense around and maybe, if you squint, it will appear to make sense"

What is Americana if it is not what you have described above?

Is Appalachian music the real deal? Yes! Would it still be the real deal if those mountain people had retained their British accents for singing , while all around them the general populace had adopted American accents?

My God Gibb, I don't think you know anything about how music develops!

Let's take another example!

Django Reinhardt. Now would you be happier if Django had played jazz with an American accent? Because he didn't! Indeed, he couldn't!
Because he was a great artist, and he played jazz with a distinct gypsy/European accent.

No, great artists speak with their own voice! They do not mimic others!


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 04:15 AM

Too assertive all around, this thread. eg from last post, 'great artists speak with their own voice! They do not mimic others!'

Question-beg as to what we mean by 'great'. Assumption that there is only one way of being 'great', when in fact there are ∞∞.

As to the 'accent' thing: regular archive-minded posters will recall various threads on this topic: I OPd one myself a few years ago, predicated on Ralph McTell singing what I thought should have been called "The Streets of Brooklyn", called something like "Mid-Atlantic: why?" There is a 'folk-voice' as someone remarks above, which some of us try to avoid. There is a pop-voice likewise, of which an endeavour to sound American even if one isn't is a prominent feature. You may like it or hate it; but there it is. Unsurprising then that a young woman with her way to make will use it in preference to her native N London [she comes from Tottenham iirc]. Most do: not all; Lily Allen doesn't, Vera Lynn didn't too obviously. But, love it or hate it or just accept it as inevitable, there it is.

So listen to Adele, & enjoy; or don't; but take her for what she is, and accept that such 'greatness' as she may be held to possess doesn't necessarily depend on just this one sole aspect of her work.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 04:30 AM

Aside: pronunciations and other aspects of English have changed at a similar average rate in England as in Northern America. If settlers had retained their accent from the time of immigration, it may not be recognized as British English nowadays.

Accents of languages are not just geography and sociology, there are cultural and individual subtexts which must be treated with caution. Not easy to tell other persons what is "their own voice".

All other aspects of music follow different rules, much more tolerant of foreign influences. If we disapprove of such an influence, or find a particular artist not to be great enough, we speak of "mimicking", otherwise of "creative adaptation".


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Mr Happy
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 05:16 AM

If you don't like it, don't listen to it, simples!


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 06:21 AM

I always have an aversion to singers who believe they are so famous they to only need to use one name, even the King, Elvis Presley used a first and last name.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 07:50 AM

Well, we've been here before, but it amazes me how many Brits/Irish have to told that Adele, and Dusty, and Annie Lennox, and Bono etc etc sing in American accents.
Recently, I was talking about this subject, and a woman in the group said, "Do Americans have an accent when they sing?".
Well, for a moment, that question took my breath away!
Then I realised what was going on.
American accents have become the norm!
Indeed, this has been going on for a very long time.
Back in the 1940s, BBC radio producers were told that British dance band singers using American accents was not acceptable!

My main gripe is that the use of American accents creates " a layer" that separates the audience from the "real" person singing the song.
When audiences listen to Adele, they are not hearing Adele, a young woman from London, England singing, but rather, an foreign "voice persona" based on an American accent.

When you hear, for example, Hank Williams, Muddy Water or Jimmy MacBeath singing you have no doubt that you are hearing that person!

For British rock/pop to have any real artists validity, it must free itself from the shackles of phoney American accents.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Mr Happy
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 08:31 AM

[IMO]'real artists validity' is a product package, nothing necessarily to do with music

'phoney American accents' sell the product


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 12:01 PM

Which British accent? Like Peter Bellamy when he sang "On the road to Mandalay"?
Stanley Holloway?
Zeinab Bedawi?


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 12:12 PM

I thought the accent was usually referred to as 'Mid-Atlantic' but maybe that's a different one again.

Anyhow, isn't history littered with singers singing in accents that weren't necessarily their own. The middle of the last century for example had more than a few British singers use 'proper' enunciation or 'BBC English' or whatever you like to call it that I doubt reflected the speech they grew up with. But at least it was still English you'll probably say.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 01:02 PM

Mr Happy said:
             " 'phoney American accents' sell the product "

Now, that is interesting because in other fields of entertainment- tv and films - for example, it's the very Britishness of the product that is the selling point to Americans!


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Marje
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 02:06 PM

OK, so Adele sings in a different accent from her native one. But at least she is free from that ghastly R&B-derived melisma, which abandons the tune in favour of a display of vocal gymastics, favoured by so many singers on both sides of the Atlantic. And she doesn't adopt that strange whimpery, nasal head-voice that afflicts so many young singers.

Adele can not only hold a tune, she can enrich it with her expressive tone, and you can hear every word. And she writes fantastic songs of her own, with great melodies and memorable words. She's not (I'm pretty certain) auto-tuned.

She doesn't feel the need to display her knickers or her knockers or her bum or her tongue, or dance like a pole-dancer, or surround herself with great choirs of half-naked, contorting backing singers of either sex.

There's a lot to dislike in the modern pop world, but Adele doesn't go in for much of that awful stuff. She just stands there and sings, and as a fuddy old folkie, I confess I'm a bit of a fan.

Marje


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 02:31 PM

Haha Marje; "display her knickers or her knockers"
Good sensible post by the way. It's to easy to get sidetracked by minor piffles!


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 02:43 PM

Marje has hit the nail on the head - she just stands there and sings, and sings very well indeed. However, her English accent is appalling.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 03:04 PM

Bonzo3legs said: "However, her English accent is appalling"

Well, that is a matter of opinion!
I bet there are, for example, millions of Londoners who would disagree!

Also, I'm guessing that you are from the UK.

Most Americans, I would guess, would not find her speaking voice appalling.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Mr Happy
Date: 10 Sep 13 - 04:28 AM

English accent is appalling!! & more!


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 04:35 PM

Sadly, a few years on from surgery to remove nodes (benign) from her vocal cords, Adele has had to cancel the rest of her tour dates.
Her online message to her fans is very long and emotional, and she explains that it's about damage to her voice.
Again.

I want to say this as lovingly and caringly as possible:
Sweetheart,
get to that surgeon,
and this time do whatever he told you to do last time
that you thought you could get away with not doing.
Don't tell me he didn't have advice.

No, I don't know what doctor Zee told Adele.
But in her sound, along with that emotional openness,
there is just enough strain and tension to make me worry for her.

If she doesn't wise up, her voice will die before she does.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 05:03 PM

Adele's singing has great power and projection (what I have called a "foghorn" quality). It would be a shame if that has caused damage to her voice.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 05:19 PM

It would indeed be fun to have Adele as Mary Poppins, Mr Happy.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 05:37 PM

A four-year-old thread that was intended to be snotty in the first place, THEN has been revived by our refreshatrix to give advice that might be completely off the mark to someone she doesn't know, who isn't reading this.

Why?


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 07:48 PM

It was intended that way in the first place? I missed that, sorry.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 03 Jul 17 - 12:25 AM

Jeri

The internet ripple effect
put it out a like a prayer

Ken


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 03 Jul 17 - 12:27 AM

Poor edit


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Curious
Date: 03 Jul 17 - 07:17 PM

Was attracted eventually by the thread title.

Second posting comments on the difference between her singing voice and her natural accent.

Nothing new about that - have a listen to Vera Lynn.


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 03 Jul 17 - 07:23 PM

Why are we arguing about whether she's a good singer or not?

I'm not certain if I've ever actually heard her sing as I don't listen to pop music at all. (As a bluegrass musician friend once said, "The field of unpopular music is wide open.") And my taste doesn't, in general, run towards singer/songwriters.

But from what I've heard, she has a wonderful voice. And she needs to take care of it if she is to continue touring or recording.

I would imagine she's still being treated by the celebrated laryngeal surgeon Dr. Steven Zeitels, who helped her through the crisis with the vocal cord polyp that hemorrhaged a few years ago. He's treated a number of celebrities -- including Mudcat celebrities Tom Hall (Curmudgeon) and Kendall Morse (Kendall). If anyone can help PRESERVE Adele's voice, it will be Dr. Z. He truly understands how important voice and vocal quality is, not to just singers (although someone once said his waiting room is like the green room at the Met), but to anyone who uses their voice -- teachers, sales people, writers, the clergy...indeed, ANYONE. Without a voice, one's life changes dramatically. And for a singer, it's devastating.

One can't sing their way through a vocal cord crisis. Talking can permanently damage the voice. She needs to rest her instrument (and receive therapy) or she could lose her singing voice completely.

So what's the problem here? From what I gather, she has a beautiful powerful voice, enunciates well, chooses interesting and complex material. Why are we debating the value of differing genres of music? It's all a matter of personal taste.

As far as accents go, back when Curmudgeon was performing at The White Horse Pub at the Nereledge Inn in North Conway, New Hampshire back in the '80s, we became friendly with Paul Ross, English rock climber, who was at that time living in the area and hanging out at the pub. Tom's singing confused Paul -- he said Tom sounded like a Brit, but he couldn't quite put his finger on the exact accent. That was because Tom had learned the songs (of the British Folk Revival) from recordings of English and Scots singers -- who came from different parts of the island. Part of it, I'm sure, was intentional -- to sing like a singer he admired. And part is surely UNintentional, just a part of learning a song from a recording.

Linn


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 04 Jul 17 - 02:20 AM

Yes! But great artists have such a strong idenity centre that they always sound like themselves.
Can you imagine Muddy Waters, or Hank Williams or Frank Sinatra singing an Irish folk song with an Irish accent ...or even a trace of one.
"To thine own self be true"
Well. Adele is definitely hiding her " own self" when she sings.
Again, and rather bizarrely, that seems to be fine with most listeners


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Allan Conn
Date: 04 Jul 17 - 03:15 AM

I'll maybe need to duck here but to me I don't think Adele sounds like she is particularly aping an American accent. Not in the obvious way that Lonnie Donegan and Mick Jagger would sound anyway. Yes her singing voice is different from her speaking voice but I'd say it is more of a kind of non-accent rather than a specific American accent. Would some call it mid-Atlantic? I'd question whether she is putting anything on too. If I am singing a specific Scottish folk song then I obviously sound Scottish when singing but other than that I'd say I sound kind of neutral. For me to sing say a Beatles or an Eagles song in a Scottish accent I'd probably need to concentrate to specifically do that. It wouldn't be my natural singing voice for those songs. Whatever your accent is like in singing someone is going to object anyway. For their first TV appearance the Proclaimers were announced by Paula Yates as being "really weird" when the only thing different about them was they sung exactly the same as they spoke in every song. I do try and have some fun sometimes in changing songs in to something like my Borders dialect - as far as the rhyming will allow anyway. So it is much nearer to how I speak (apart from the odd word or two) but it is a much less natural singing voice - for me anyway.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAZvus5Hh1o


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Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 04 Jul 17 - 04:21 AM

Hope the lady gets well soon.

Popular entertainment is not musicology or anthropology. It's four function math. Count the audience legs and divide by two.

Adele has taken home something like 15:18 Grammy nominations against similarly marketed & packaged & talented dentist office Muzakettes. Pretty good average for her league.

When I hear pro sound engineers in American pop say 'natural' & 'authentic' I reference the absence of vocal processing like Auto-Tune &c. The accents never really come up in conversation. Scots excepted of course.

YT: Scottish accents v. Yankee Tech


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