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BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?

Songwronger 11 Sep 13 - 08:36 PM
Little Hawk 11 Sep 13 - 08:58 PM
GUEST 11 Sep 13 - 09:33 PM
Bill D 11 Sep 13 - 09:38 PM
pdq 11 Sep 13 - 09:42 PM
Bobert 11 Sep 13 - 09:52 PM
mg 11 Sep 13 - 10:10 PM
Bill D 11 Sep 13 - 10:11 PM
Songwronger 11 Sep 13 - 10:13 PM
Bobert 11 Sep 13 - 10:22 PM
GUEST,TIA 11 Sep 13 - 10:37 PM
Songwronger 11 Sep 13 - 10:38 PM
Songwronger 11 Sep 13 - 10:43 PM
Little Hawk 11 Sep 13 - 11:49 PM
GUEST,CS 12 Sep 13 - 03:29 AM
GUEST,CS 12 Sep 13 - 03:36 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 12 Sep 13 - 05:04 AM
Stu 12 Sep 13 - 08:42 AM
GUEST,CS 12 Sep 13 - 09:34 AM
Little Hawk 12 Sep 13 - 10:18 AM
GUEST 12 Sep 13 - 11:21 AM
Bill D 12 Sep 13 - 01:03 PM
Bobert 12 Sep 13 - 01:08 PM
GUEST,CS 12 Sep 13 - 01:17 PM
GUEST,CS 12 Sep 13 - 01:23 PM
Bill D 12 Sep 13 - 01:42 PM
Bobert 12 Sep 13 - 04:34 PM
bobad 12 Sep 13 - 05:05 PM
GUEST,CS 12 Sep 13 - 05:13 PM
gnu 12 Sep 13 - 05:32 PM
Bobert 12 Sep 13 - 05:47 PM
gnu 12 Sep 13 - 06:07 PM
bobad 12 Sep 13 - 06:45 PM
akenaton 12 Sep 13 - 06:45 PM
akenaton 12 Sep 13 - 06:54 PM
Bill D 12 Sep 13 - 07:14 PM
Songwronger 12 Sep 13 - 07:35 PM
Bobert 12 Sep 13 - 07:39 PM
bobad 12 Sep 13 - 07:47 PM
GUEST,Kendall 12 Sep 13 - 07:51 PM
bobad 12 Sep 13 - 07:59 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 12 Sep 13 - 09:36 PM
Bill D 12 Sep 13 - 10:23 PM
akenaton 13 Sep 13 - 03:45 AM
kendall 13 Sep 13 - 06:42 AM
Songwronger 13 Sep 13 - 06:15 PM
Bobert 13 Sep 13 - 07:41 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 14 Sep 13 - 02:12 AM
GUEST,achmelvich 14 Sep 13 - 03:41 PM

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Subject: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Songwronger
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 08:36 PM

Domestically I would say Obamacare. Internationally, his expert handling of the Syrian situation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 08:58 PM

His brilliant 2008 campaign and the victory he achieved there was his greatest achievement. At the time, I was very glad he won, and very impressed with how well he campaigned.

Other than that, nothing much comes to mind. His Obamacare was a sad, tragic sellout to the Private Health Care industry. The recent farce in Syria has been expertly handled by Putin, not Obama, and was just another utterly spurious attempt to damage and eventually bring down an independent Middle Eastern government that is not yet in the pocket of the USA, the UK, France, and Israel. I suspect the Sarin gas attack was really made by the rebels to provide an excuse for foreign intervention, and not by Assad's forces (just as the Russians are saying). In any case, the USA government couldn't care less about humanitarian issues, and it does absolutely nothing on behalf of beleagured Middle Eastern civilians, because they don't matter to the USA government. What matters is oil, political power, and the extension of empire. American foreign policy has hardly changed at all under Obama, though he is less reckless than Bush...so far. And that is a slight improvement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 09:33 PM

SSDD


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 09:38 PM

Oh, pooh, Little Hawk! You cannot just place all the blame for things that aren't perfect on the bullseye of the president's back! \\\

"Obamacare was a sad, tragic sellout .." HE did not sell out! Surely you realize who kept that law from being better ... and why there was no single-payer setup!

" The recent farce in Syria has been expertly handled by Putin, not Obama.."

It has not been 'handled' by anyone yet. All Putin can do is juggle his own best interests... and Putin has Assad's ear because he pays a lot of the bills... and doesn't want to see them get him (Putin) in too deep.

"I suspect the Sarin gas attack was really made by the rebels to provide an excuse for foreign intervention, and not by Assad's forces (just as the Russians are saying)..."

Bull pucky! You "suspect"! You have NO evidence for such a stupid idea... and his Putinship has offered no evidence. He just wants to plant the idea in the heads of folk like you who WANT to believe such things!

and this!!!

" In any case, the USA government couldn't care less about humanitarian issues, .."

I am offended... and YOU should be ashamed! That is beyond the pale...you should be writing ads for Assad-

Wild speculation just to feed your own misguided attitude is.....

Oh crap... can you guess I am a bit pissed off ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: pdq
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 09:42 PM

"I suspect the Sarin gas attack was really made by the rebels to provide an excuse for foreign intervention, and not by Assad's forces (just as the Russians are saying). In any case, the USA government couldn't care less about humanitarian issues..." ~ Little Hawk

Birdfeathers has the guts to make true statements no matter how unpopular they are with the Mudcat ruling majority.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 09:52 PM

Bill,

Trying to talk intelligently to ignorant people is like SCREAMING louder when someone who doesn't speak your language and doesn't understand you... It's a round-hole-square-peg deal every time...

And the sad thing is that they are so ignorant, or eat up with hatred, that there are no words in the world that will make them get it...

We know those folks here...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: mg
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 10:10 PM

I totally disagree that the US government does not care about humanitarian issues. I think it does. It does not always have the money, courage, resources etc. to deal with them. One thing we should constantly have going is ships full of donated goods to poor countries..we have so much surplus in basements and garages here..could clothe and blanket millions of refugees for example. We are a country with a good heart but not always the best executors of efficiency. If there were no danger involved, who would you want if you were say just out of a tsunami or earthquake? Who would be the most efficient, productive? I know Turks come in with rescue dogs really quickly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 10:11 PM

Yeah Bobert... and the idea that there IS a "Mudcat ruling majority" is one of the oldest bits of nonsense 'they' share.

'Birdfeathers' has plenty of guts... but 'true' statements need more than arm waving about one's own speculations..


....g'night Gracie


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Songwronger
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 10:13 PM

Well, Obama is a Marxist. With Obamacare he's worked hand-in-glove with congressional fascists to craft a tax system that will destroy the American middle class. So he's succeeded wildly in that Marxist goal.

With Syria, he destroyed America as the "world's last superpower." Obama hates America, and he's now put the country on the track to becoming a second-class power. So once again, mission accomplished.

I don't agree with his goals at all, but give the devil his due. Obamacare and the staged failure of the U.S. in Syria have done irreparable damage to the U.S.

Hats off to comrade Obama.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 10:22 PM

Yes, of course Obama is _________________..., wrongist of men....

Knock yourself out... Maybe you could set up a dart board with all kinds of stupid stuff to say about anyone and just dial up your daily OCD jones with a game of Obama-hatin' darts???

((((Burp))))

Excuse me... Were you trying to sound smart, wronger???

Sounded like a burp to me...

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 10:37 PM

This is the most assinine thread ever. And I have read a lot of crap here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Songwronger
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 10:38 PM

Can't you even give your hero credit for achieving his goals, Bobert? That's just mean spirited.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Songwronger
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 10:43 PM

Then pitch in and improve the thread, Tia. What do YOU think is Obama's greatest achievement? The way he killed JFK's manned space program? The way he's killing America's power infrastructure?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Sep 13 - 11:49 PM

I don't care if you're pissed off, Bill. You have a right to your opinion, and I have a right to mine, and we have now heard each other's opinions. And that's fine with me.

I don't blame it all on Obama! Certainly not! Obama's coincidental. He's the straight man in the black comedy that is American policy. I blame it on the ruthless imperial system that he is presently in the unenviable position of representing for the American public to focus on. He's not in charge of it, and he never was. He is just the outward face that it shows to the public, and he will be replaced soon enough by another temporary outward face...and it won't matter much who it is.

Many of you, like mg for example, are true believers in the basic good of the USA (not surprisingly!)...and if that good were to mean what is in its people in a general sense, I'd agree with you! Most Americans are good people who act in good faith. Your faith in your government and its military and its secret ops organizations like the CIA, however, is tragically misplaced...rather as the faith of millions of well-intentioned Germans in their government was tragically misplaced between 1933 and 1945. Quite similar to that.

They were loyal to what they knew, and what they'd grown up knowing. So are you. I'm not at all surprised by that. It's a perfectly normal human reaction called "patriotism". You're just doing what most people have done throughout history, naturally believing in the familiar home system that you were born in and live under.

But don't expect me to believe in it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 03:29 AM

The best thing Obama has done is continue to keep the people believing that the US are the 'good guys'.

If folks on here dislike opinions by members like LH, it goes without saying they will just hate anything said by Chomsky who here demolishes Obamas latest appeal to the public re the proposed US war against Syria:

Chomsky: Instead of "Illegal" Threat to Syria, U.S. Should Back Chemical Weapons

Incidentally I really like Democracy Now, one of the few independent US news outlets to really talk the truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 03:36 AM

That should read:

"US should back chemical weapons BAN in all nations"


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 05:04 AM

"" In any case, the USA government couldn't care less about humanitarian issues, .."

I am offended... and YOU should be ashamed! That is beyond the pale...you should be writing ads for Assad-
""

The sad thing is that, although the statement is totally untrue of the current US government, the blocking activities of the Republican Party don't permit this government to do anything about it.

For this reason it tends to look as though the Obama government is as uncaring and vicious as its predecessor under the aegis of Bush/Cheney.

This is one of the great successes of the Republicans' determination to prevent Obama from succeeding in any of the changes he would have made to improve life in the USA, then blame HIM for not making those changes.

A democracy which demands 60% for a majority is NOT a democracy, since it places the will of the stronger party above the will of the people, and emasculates the weaker party.

And whatever Birdfeathers may think, there are significant differences between the attitudes and actions of the two.

Undeniably, Obama has tried to do what is best for the American people, while the Republicans have insisted upon doing what will benefit only the Republican Party, and to hell with the American people. The bottom line is they will never allow a n****r to succeed in the White House.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Stu
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 08:42 AM

"Well, Obama is a Marxist."

The best thing about US political threads is the whole country is so far to the right a certain group of citizens have become incapable of understanding any political or economic concepts from the wider world. The above statement illustrates this; the poster really has no idea at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 09:34 AM

Obama a Marxist? That is pretty far out!
I can't seeing too many Marxists appreciating the affiliation either!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 10:18 AM

I don't comprehend how anyone can think Obama is a Marxist! Heh! What a bizarre notion. The Democratic Party has moved so far to the political Right in the last few decades since 1980 that it has caused the RepuGlicans (deliberate mispelling) to virtually fall OFF the right edge of a metaphorical flat Earth in a desperate effort to continue appearing "right-of-the-Democrats" to their loyal base of small town and rural conservatives who more than anything dread LIBERALISM and SOCIALISM! It's hilarious mythology. It's also quite unfortunate, because it is pushing the entire American 2-party system in the direction of ultra-aggressive Fascism...an alliance of Big Business and Big Banking with Big Militarism and illegal Wars of Choice on whomever they decide to attack and take over. That's hardly what I would call 'Marxism', as it's based on the profit motive above all else, and it is run by the foremost profiteers.

The very threat of launching a war on Syria or anyone else is illegal by world law. It is the act of a rogue nation. It's the kind of stuff Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini did. It's criminal behaviour, as was the 2003 War on Iraq. This is pretty plain to almost all the nations in the world, but apparently not to America's political leaders, who seem to think that their nation sprang from the Divine Hand of God, and therefore can attack whom it wants to whenever it wants to, upon any flimsy pretext, and without any actual threat to itself from the targeted country!

Well, Hitler thought that way too...and you see what it got him in the long run. There will be serious consequences in the long run, and they won't be nice, because no system this arrogant and irresponsible can go on forever. Eventually it makes too many enemies, and eventually it falls.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 11:21 AM

Agreed Little Hawk, you're one of the few voices of sanity on this forum!

By the way I found it interesting to see Obama's speech makers twisting things.

Obama: "The Russian government has indicated a willingness to join with the international community in pushing Assad to give up his chemical weapons."

a) Note, the unspoken premise via "join with" that the 'International Community' doesn't actually already include Russia, to which anyone with an awareness of how significant Russia is in the world, would go 'Whhu'? In other words, the so-called 'International Community' that the US administration is so fond of invoking actually amounts to, well The US, and whoever else may currently support the military aims of, well The US.

b) Note how the Obama speechmakers have also neatly co-opted what was actually a *Russian-led initiative* to get Assad to surrender any stockpiles of chemical weapons he may hold, and suggest via referencing the implicitly US dominated 'International Community' that it was in fact a US-led initiative.

I thought it was a bit of a joke when Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize for 'doing nothing'. However reflecting on the US's incessant history of international military aggression, I decided that so long as Obama keeps on - or is forced to keep on - 'doing nothing', it actually represents a worthy award. I really, really hope he keeps on doing nothing. If he can just resist the psychotic US compulsion to wage war, and keeps on doing nothing it's worth a whole land-fill full of nobel peace prizes, and he will be remembered for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 01:03 PM

"The Democratic Party has moved so far to the political Right ..."

More nonsense! I've heard LONG discussions and explanations about the last several decades by experts who do more than toss out unfounded generalizations. (I wish I had direct links to the detials)

The Democratic party has largely stayed just where it was, while the Republican party has been doing all the shifting to the right. Even the Republicans and rightist pundits are using this situation to 'claim' that the Democrats are becoming more LEFT...leading to stupid remarks about "Marxist" etc...

Cowardly anonymous "Guest" asserts: "Note how the Obama speechmakers have also neatly co-opted what was actually a *Russian-led initiative* ...."

The 'initiative' has been brought about piecemeal by various people, including Putin. He and Obama compared ideas on the basic idea at the G-8. Why does Obama's agreement and cautious optimism with Putin's engagement have to be spun as "co-opted"? THEY are, for slightly different reasons, trying to defuse the situation and avoid wider conflict.
If they succeed, I don't really care who gets the credit.... but many doubt that much would BE happening without Obama's warnings. He & Putin obviously come to the issue from different perspectives, and neither could easily put pressure on Assad alone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 01:08 PM

Obama's greatest achievement is not ordering a Special Ops hit on the Tea Party... I would have taken these terrorists out a long time ago...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 01:17 PM

Me "cowardly anonymouse" above.

Bill D: "He [Putin] and Obama compared ideas on the basic idea at the G-8."

I'm glad to hear it, but would appreciate links to both Putin and Obama's statements verifying this assertion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 01:23 PM

Just to add, that according to the rest of the world, it is a Russian led initiative, We may be mistaken but that is explicitly how it's being presented outside of the US anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 01:42 PM

"appreciate links".. All I have is several reports in various media saying that they discussed ideas on what to do informally, and that Kerry's supposed 'offhand remark' was merely a reference TO one of those ideas, which gave Putin an opening to actually say something and demonstrate HIS clout with Assad.
I've heard this several times, but because the remarks WERE off-the-record, there are no direct quotes to be had.. at least so far. I've no doubt that both Putin & Obama would rather keep it that way.

I entered "kerry obama putin G8" in Google and got many strange links which I have not worked my way thru yet.

-----------------

as to "anonymouse" ..after 10-12 years of folks who, for whatever reason, choose not to be regular, logged in members, I get frustrated when they can't remember to at least type in an identifying mark. Some intentionally NEVER use a name, and one "guest" could be anyone. If I had a choice, a post would not take until the blank was filled in. (I have seen forums which work that way.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 04:34 PM

Obama has stated he had a little informal talk with Putin at the G-8...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: bobad
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 05:05 PM

For now it looks like he may have achieved his goal of getting Assad to stop killing his citizens with chemical weapons and without firing a single missile at that - a pretty good achievement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 05:13 PM

If that was his goal Bobad then I underestimated his ability to manipulate a heated world situation in his favour, which is entirely a compliment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: gnu
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 05:32 PM

Obama did that with Assad? I thought Putin did that. I thought Obama's speech was okay, except for when he said he had proof but he didn't provide it and until he spewed bullshit about USA being better than everyone else. Putin doesn't spew bullshit. Read what he said in the New York Times. Nobel Peace Prize for Obama and not for Putin? Bullshit. If you dispute any words of Putins letter to the NYT.. well... you know. Go bomb another country because you are better than everyone else... we trust you even tho you won't show us any proof.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 05:47 PM

Bottom line is that Obama has been a reluctant warrior which is a good thing so when he made his threat he must have been taken seriously by Assad and Putin because of that trait... You never want to mess with a reluctant warrior when they have had enough...

People may think that Obama has blown it with Syria...

I don't think so...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: gnu
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 06:07 PM

Bobert... up to a point and that point was made by him is his speech when he said he had proof. He won't share the proof yet he won't bomb even tho he said he would bomb if he had proof? Did he take lessons from Jean Chretien? The proof is the proof because it's a proof??? WTF?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: bobad
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 06:45 PM

"Obama did that with Assad? I thought Putin did that."

Do you actually think that initiative would have transpired had Obama not made the threat to send over some persuasive concussives to inform Mr. Assad that gassing his people was a bad idea?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 06:45 PM

Gnu.....agree 100%.
We are all being taken for mugs...don't believe their spin. they say they now want a diplomatic solution, yet Mr Obama and Mr Kerry are still drumming up support for illegal military strikes, just like Mr Bush did.

The similarities are so obvious, that I don't understand why people like Bill D continue to support Mr Obama's stance, after condemning Mr Bush for feeding us the same garbage. I can only put it down to crass partisan politics.
We all know what "limited strikes" will mean, we saw it in Libya, it means taking sides in a civil war, by destroying Mr Assad's air force and defence installations, facilitate regime change, and virtually hand the country to the West's sworn enemies Al Quaeda.

Why?....Destabilisation of the region.   Its in our "National Interest".....isn't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 06:54 PM

Bobad....Keep up please, the Russians have been pushing for peace talks and a diplomatic solution since the beginning of this conflict

Britain, France and latterly the US have been pushing for war and arming the "rebels". They are now becoming involved very much against their will, and I am sure they will put every obstacle they can, to sabotage a negotiated settlement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 07:14 PM

"Read what he said in the New York Times."

Umm... I just saw a respected analyst say that it was a very well-crafted article, and that he wondered who wrote it for Putin...*grin*

Putin has many reasons to intercede in this mess... but he's not exactly known for his great concern for human rights and brotherhood.

I monitor several news sources on TV (including the new Al-Jazeera channel here) ..plus a number of online news sources... Those who know seem to mostly agree that Putin is exhibiting "enlightened self-interest" and that it just happens to coincide with some of our interests at the moment. Fine! I'll take it... and Putin can have all the credit you all want to heap on him. Just don't turn your backs on him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Songwronger
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 07:35 PM

So Obama's not a Marxist? Maybe he's a fascist. I've argued that before. Let's examine some points:

COMMUNIST MANIFESTO
Abolition of private property
Heavy progressive income tax
Abolition of all rights of inheritance
Confiscation of property of all emigrants and rebels
Central Bank
Government control of Communications & Transportation
Government ownership of factories and agriculture
Government control of labor
Corporate farms, regional planning
Government control of education

CHARACTERISTICS OF FASCISM
Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
Supremacy of the Military
Rampant Sexism
Controlled Mass Media
Obsession with National Security
Religion and Government are Intertwined
Corporate Power is Protected
Labor Power is Suppressed
Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fraudulent Elections

Hitler said his National Socialism was based on Marx, so go figure. Is Obama a Marxist or a fascist? All I know is he's transforming the country, as he promised he would, and he displays MAJOR characteristics of both a Marxist and a fascist. I guess he's a Farxist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 07:39 PM

Songwronger is the fascist here... No one else... Not Obama... No no one... Just the wrongman, hisself...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: bobad
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 07:47 PM

"Bobad....Keep up please, the Russians have been pushing for peace talks and a diplomatic solution since the beginning of this conflict"

Right , that's why they have been arming Assad, to achieve a diplomatic solution.....puhleese.

Oh, and do keep up yourself Ake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 07:51 PM

Never argue with someone whose opinions you do not respect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: bobad
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 07:59 PM

Russian diplomacy:

Here's a brief review of what Russia has done for Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad. According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, "During 2008–12 Russia supplied 71 per cent of Syria's imports of major weapons." Human Rights First reports, "In January, 2012, Russia signed a $550 million contract to provide the Assad regime with attack jets capable of hitting civilian targets on the ground." Then Russia tried "to send four repaired Mi-25 attack helicopters to Syria in June 2012." Around that time, Human Rights Watch sent Syria's Russian arms supplier a list of human rights abuses perpetrated by Assad using Russian weapons. HRW urged Russia to stop sending missiles, fighter jets, and ammunition to Syria, but nothing changed. The Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, a Russian think tank, reports that last year, Russia and its contractors supplied Assad's surface-to-air missile systems, repaired "at least four Syrian Mi-25 helicopters," and apparently upgraded Syrian tanks.

In May of this year, the Finnish Institute of International Affairs reported that Russia had provided Assad with "20 modernized Mi-25 combat helicopters," belying Russia's claims that its arms deliveries were unrelated to the civil war. In June, a HRW official noted:

"Russia has continued to send arms to al-Assad—and not only defensive weapons, as Moscow repeatedly claimed. A recently leaked document reported on by the Washington Post shows the Syrian government requesting 20,000 Kalashnikovs and 20,000,000 bullets as recently as March. And a Russian arms manufacturer just claimed that a contract has been signed to deliver at least 10 fighter jets."

In July, the United Nations' Independent International Commission of Inquiry for Syria reported a "shipment by the Russian Federation of S-300 missile batteries" to Assad. This week, the commission added that "pre-conflict arms deals between Moscow and Damascus continue to be honored." Human Rights First notes that "Russian officials have said they will not halt arms sales to the Assad regime so long as such sales are not prohibited by the U.N. Security Council." In a delightful Catch-22, HRF points out that Russia itself has blocked such attempts at prohibition within the council.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 09:36 PM

Can he sing??


GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 13 - 10:23 PM

"Never argue with someone whose opinions you do not respect."

Hmmm... maybe I oughta tape that slogan to my computer screen...... and pay attention to it 97% of the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Sep 13 - 03:45 AM

Bobad, The Russians are only too aware of what will happen if the Islamic Fundamentalists get control of the Middle East, they will be in the front line. That is why they are arming Assad, while we arm the terrorists.
We pretend to be spreading "democracy", but in reality we are spreading terrorism...and it wont end in the Middle East, they hate Western values more than they do the Russians.
Kerry and Obama's "blunder" has given the Russians the opportunity to finish the civil war, the next move will be for a ceasefire to allow chemical weapons to be monitored, then the ceasefire will be protected by a UN resolution


I "respect" all opinions.....I may not understand or agree with some, but I respect free speech.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: kendall
Date: 13 Sep 13 - 06:42 AM

Me too, but I don't have to argue with assholes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Songwronger
Date: 13 Sep 13 - 06:15 PM

Obama and Project Kickstart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-sdO6pwVHQ&feature=youtu.be


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 13 - 07:41 PM

As per usual, the wrongman is wrong...

I mean, WW III may be on the horizon but it ain't on Obama... What we are seeing is a war between Shiites and Sunnis and a parallel war being waged against the Palestinians by Israel...

None of this is on Obama...

If anything, Obama has lived up to being a Nobel Peace Prize winner... He has gone the extra mile to keep the US out of war...

But don't let facts get in your way, wronger...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Sep 13 - 02:12 AM

That's what I like..a guy with a sense of humor!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Greatest Achievement?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 14 Sep 13 - 03:41 PM

i don't know a lot about the effect obama has had in the usa - he appears to be a decent guy with relatively good intentions, though powerless to even make a start in reigning in the malign power of your corporate/military establishment. long the biggest and nastiest bully in 'their' world playground {with the uk as their runty sidekick) they are now forced to accept there are other big boys to contend with...

anyway,i digress - obama says he is committed to closing guantanamo but has failed. this is surely a minor 'tidying up' bit of business and he cant do it. it's continuing existence was bush's disgrace but is now obama's - and america's. usa has no right to lecture anyone on human rights abuse or justice. land of freedom? a sick joke

marxist? get a grip

pushed around by fascists? obviously


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Mudcat time: 24 October 2:42 PM EDT

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