BS: US Government shutdown

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Oct 13 - 12:01 AM

We'll just have to see what comes out of the already pre-arranged 'compromise'(??). This is all a bunch of hooey theatrics, both sides, who are as crooked as a cork screw!
Keystone, here we come!...the 'biggest problem' with that is, it will NOT benefit the American people as 'promised'....just like the Saudi people 'all' benefit' from their oil, huh?

A lot of you guys just ain't seeing it...and keep bickering about the minutia 'argue points' put out by the corporate media.
What a bunch of fucking saps!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 08:36 PM

Johnny Bonehead is a coward... So is the rest of the non-Tea GOP caucus...

On another front, David Koch is trying to walk away from his efforts involved in this shutdown and needs to be pressured more by progressives until he quits buying congressmen in states where he doesn't live or do business...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 07:36 PM

He's been a failure 25% because of his own lack of leadership...but 75% because .... you can't herd cats.

And NEW cats who won't even piss in the sandbox would make the best Speaker tear his hair! I really think that he would have been thrown out if he had allowed an early vote to end the shutdown... and NO ONE wanted to see a change of Speakers right now.

You can't just say "Boner failed" anymore than the Republicans can just block everything, then say "Obama failed."

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 05:24 PM

very few other Republicans right now who could do the job

What job is that? Boner has been an absolute failure as Speaker.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 10:56 AM

"Take the gavel away from Boehner who abused his authority."

ummm... heard that possibility being discussed yesterday. The pundits just looked at each other when asked just who might succeed him. Eric Cantor? I hope not....

I have a vague suspicion that he is holding on because HE knows that there are very few other Republicans right now who could do the job, and the possibility of one of the worst loonies landing the position is truly scary.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 10:21 AM

"Since when have Republicans given a fart in a high wind about cafeteria workers, janitors & maids?"

to the affluent, these people are invisible, disposable units that are regarded with annoyance if they presume to assert themselves.

Unless, of course, they belong to the household staff & then they are regarded as possessions that may need to be coddled a bit to keep them in check.

So when we put these people in office, is it any wonder that they feel the public should work for them and not the other way around?

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 09:57 AM

About right, Art - Since when have Republicans given a fart in a high wind about cafeteria workers, janitors & maids?

Of course, CEO's, Banksters & day traders would be another story.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 01:07 AM

An unfortunate bit of fallout: Federal employees will get paid for their forced time off, but people who couldn't work because their workplace was within a closed government facility, such as cafeteria workers in Federal buildings, maintenance workers on military installations and people who work in the National Park lodges will not. All part of that $24 billion.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 04:39 PM

The bottom line: racism.

The shutdown is at the feet of Boehner and Cruz. Let's face the fact that America is still
a racist nation and many white Confederates do not like a black president.

Dick, nothing much Harry Reid could do about that.

Trouble will come up again in January and February.

The Republican robbers want to take away health care, Medicare and Social Security.

Robberpublicans.

Impeach members of the Supreme Court who voted for Citizen's United.

Take the gavel away from Boehner who abused his authority.

Non-cooperation and non-violent resistance is the solution.

Voting is important and hopefully the election won't be stolen again.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 04:12 PM

Reportage here (UK) indicates a humiliating climb-down for the Republicans, a substantial opinion swing pro-democrat, and best of all possibly a split between the Republicans and the Tea-potty, so splitting the right-wing vote.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 01:50 PM

So glad to be back at work this morning serving the public!

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bettynh
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 12:35 PM

Some random fallout:


NH campgrounds , privately owned but on land within the National Forest, were closed on one of the busiest weeks of the year.

Beer breweries were prevented from distributing new recipes (microbreweries are popular in this part of the country.)

Kng crab fishermen couldn't open their season.

Variious long-term science projects have been damaged. Scientists are re-assessing their positions.

Perhaps most damaging of all, Kelly Ayotte came out smelling of roses. She's articulate, intelligent, and attractive. She's been seriosly discussed as a vice-presidential candidate since she arrived in Washington last January. She's looking mighty fine as a direct contestant against Hillary.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 12:06 PM

Indeed, KB. I don't always agree with McCain - hell, I RARELY agree with McCain, but he's intelligent, educated, rational, capable of critical thought and grounded in reality(most of the time).

I suppose I demonstrate my age by considering him and those like him, the "loyal opposition".

It is way past time that those Republicans of intelligence - and there are still such, tho they're currently mostly in hiding, purged the idiots from the party, or at least recognized them for the absolute idiots they are, and said so.

If the crazies thenwanted to then form the American Idiot Party, good luck to them.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 11:46 AM

> Did you catch Senator Cruz claiming victory? What a pinhead.

You mean a genius. You should watch him work a crowd. He's looking ahead to bigger things - for himself.

And, in fact, people did suffer. The furloughed employees didn't know when (or if) they'd be paid, they haven't been paid yet, mortgages and rents have fallen due, and thousands of small businesses connected with the National Parks lost income.

Huge suffering? Probably for no more than a few. Was the attempt to sandbag a law of the land, while studiously avoiding a thousand real problems like immigration reform and costing the GNP a couple of billion bucks worth it? You be the judge.

"The price of freedom" means what it will take to get these idiots out of office.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 09:45 AM

Well, as Senator John McCain said in an interview yesterday, "when you're dealing with people of no intelligence....."

I caught that. That seemed rather a bold thing for him to say but I was impressed that he did. He is p*ssed off about this whole thing, kept calling it a fools errand.

Did you catch Senator Cruz claiming victory? What a pinhead.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 08:39 AM

Well, as Senator John McCain said in an interview yesterday, "when you're dealing with people of no intelligence....."

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 10:50 PM

The employees didn't suffer they got time off now they will be paid. This was done by self proclaimed deficit hawks "fighting waste."

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 09:02 PM

""Well, that's just the price of freedom."

LOLOL! Right... as in "The government in its wisdom allows the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges."

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Van
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 09:01 PM

Bill. Hit the nail on the head. ;) people must think.
I

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 08:29 PM

> They want to 'win' in order to put forward policies about taxes, abortion, entitlements, immigration ....etc.

Which shows how stupid and crazy they are. The proper way to go about it is formulate bills in committee and put them to a vote on the floor. But the TP positions are generally so radical and moronic that they know they can never win that way.

So they do what they can, because they have nothing (they think) to lose.

A reporter asked one of these self-righteous pinheads a day or two ago what he thought of the fact that the shutdown was making government employees "suffer" over the legally settled issue of Obamacare. The response?














"Well, that's just the price of freedom."

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 08:09 PM

"Can't we shut it down permanently...?"

I hope you're being cynical... the idea is silly.

I wonder how long the Tea Party and sympathizers can keep up this travesty without admitting what the REAL issues are that they seldom mention.

They want to 'win' in order to put forward policies about taxes, abortion, entitlements, immigration ....etc., and ....somehow ... make the idea of having a black president look awkward. They can't... usually... say these things directly, so they invent improbable schemes to harden their own narrow base and keep their 'jobs' AS muddle-heads.

Sometimes I long for the concept of an Enlightened Despot... this Democracy thing allows a weird bunch to vote... (and I think 'they' kinda agree with me .. for very different reasons.)

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Van
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 07:33 PM

Can't we shut it down permanently and save the rest of the world from the shit it throws around? I'll leave it to others to make the list it's too long for just one man.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 07:02 PM

What Greg said about the next round of insanity...

I have been thinking about this and think it's time for Democrats to start voting in Republican primaries as a means of stopping the extreme right from getting in a position to do so much damage on the country...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 06:01 PM

And what, exactly, did the TP geniuses get out of it?

Essentially nothing but extended media exposure.

Worth its weight in contributor gold!

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 05:26 PM

Q.E.D:

NY TIMES 16 October 2013
WASHINGTON — Coming out of a closed-door meeting Wednesday afternoon, in which Speaker John A. Boehner explained to his conference that he would be taking up the Senate deal and likely passing it with the help of Democratic votes, Republican lawmakers were already regrouping for the next fight.

"I'll vote against it," Representative John Fleming of Louisiana said. "But that will get us into Round 2. See, we're going to start this all over again."

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 04:32 PM

Big deal, Joe. Now we can watch the RepubliClowns go thru this whole idiotic charade again in January.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 04:00 PM

Looks like the Senate has forged a compromise that didn't cost anyone very much.

Deal reached to avoid default and open government
By ALAN FRAM and DONNA CASSATA
The Associated Press
Published: Tuesday, Oct. 15, 2013 - 11:44 pm
Last Modified: Wednesday, Oct. 16, 2013 - 12:16 pm
WASHINGTON -- Senate leaders announced last-minute agreement Wednesday to avert a threatened Treasury default and reopen the government after a partial, 16-day shutdown. Congress raced to pass the measure by day's end.

The Dow Jones industrial average soared on the news that the threat of default was fading, flirting with a 200-point gain in morning trading.

"This is a time for reconciliation," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of the agreement he had forged with the GOP leader, Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.

It was a jubilant moment in the chamber, which on Tuesday was forced to sit back and watch as the effort by House GOP leaders for a bill collapsed in disarray.

McConnell said that with the Senate accord, Republicans had sealed a deal to have spending in one area of the budget decline for two years in a row, adding, "we're not going back."

One prominent tea party lawmaker, Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, said he would oppose the plan, but not seek to delay its passage.

That was a key concession that signaled a strong possibility that both houses could act by day's end. That, in turn, would allow President Barack Obama to sign the bill into law ahead of the Thursday deadline that Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew had set for action to raise the $16.7 trillion debt limit.

While the deal could meet resistance from conservatives in the Republican-controlled House, the Democratic Leader, Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, supports the plan and says her rank and file is expected to vote for it in overwhelming numbers. That raised the possibility that more Democrats than Republicans would back it, potentially causing additional problems for House Speaker John Boehner as he struggles to manage his tea party-heavy majority.

After abandoning their own plan on Tuesday, House members quietly awaited Senate action, resigned to the likelihood that they would have to back the deal or plunge the nation into default. The only silver lining was the promise that it would be their last vote for the week after three straight weekends in Washington.

Officials said the proposal called for the Treasury to have authority to continue borrowing through Feb. 7, and the government would reopen through Jan. 15.

The White House welcomed the compromise and spokesman Jay Carney said the president looked forward to signing it into law.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/10/15/5825237/senators-seek-budget-deal-house.html#storylink=cpy

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 04:20 PM

"win the next presidential election"

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 04:18 PM

Observations:

Sensible Republican commentators (and sorry, they do exist) realize this is precisely the wrong way to get rid of "Obamacare".    They note the obvious:    that the GOP must win the next election, and probably the Senate too, to do it .

The GOP, in theory dominated by the Tea Party and therefore against the alleged terrible current abuse of government to oppress the helpless citizenry, is more than willing to fund quite a few areas of government, starting with the military and national parks but there's a long list more.    So it's not government they are against but only the parts they don't like--and they will more than glad to tell us which parts.    So to give in to this is to have not majority rule but rule by a mindless minority.

This one is my favorite:   They claim that one of the main goals is to save taxpayers' money.    Yet the recent House vote on reimbursing federal employees now not being paid was--guess what--unanimous.

So where are those brave frugal souls who want to save the taxpayers' money?    Not one actually had the guts to put his or her name on the line opposing reimbursement.   The most courage they could muster is to abstain.



Face it, the votes of federal employees--and those who realize that government is not, per se, evil--outweigh by a huge margin the views of any allegedly principled voter who is passionate to see government shrunk dramatically, even at the expense of benefits that voter receives from government.

And GOP politicians know where the votes in the general election are--and after having postured for the benefit of the Know-Nothing wing of the party, with its true believers who exert outsized influence in primary season--are more than willing to show us they know where the votes really are. The only question is how long they think they have to posture to cut off a primary challenge from the Right.

But, as Bobert and some others have already noted, shutting down the government, for any reason, is just not a winning election issue. They have learned nothing from 1995.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 05:54 PM

I never thought Id see the day when Paul Ryan was coming across as a voice of reason.

And you haven't yet. He's as big a lunatic asshole as Cruz, anmd somewhat more dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 05:54 PM

Ted Cruz is a mental case... He thinks the entire thing is about him... Never met a mirror he didn't fall instantly in love with... Face it, he is a creep person...

Actually, on Obamacare, it's imperfect... The only thing I like about it is that it is better than nothing and will lead to single payer in about 10 years... Maybe less... Americans can't stay stupid forever... When they find that they can't get a decent job because our competitors are whupping our butts because they are spending 7-8% of their GNP's on health care and getting better care then we'll move off Base Stupid...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 01:26 PM

Catch the video of Ted Cruz at the Value Voters Summit this morning.

He got huge applause when he said that Obama is targeting for destruction "every single one of our Bill of Rights."

When several hecklers called for immigration reform, he sneered condescendingly that "It look's like Obama's paid political operatives are out in force" - a good thing, because if "Obama's whole staff" is in the house trying to stop Ted Cruz, they "can't be in Washington working their mischief on the American people." Huge applause.

An "all-powerful and benevolent God" is giving the TP the "strength to stand *strong* in the House or Representatives" to keep Obamacare from killing jobs, forcing people into poverty, and stripping them of health insurance.

You think I'm making this up? I wish.

Just the tip of the iceberg. The crowd, mainly fundamentalists, went crazy.

I never thought Id see the day when Paul Ryan was coming across as a voice of reason.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 01:03 PM

A consensus does not make a fact!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: sciencegeek
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 10:32 AM

LOL...

I recently found a copy of I Hate Republicans at the local thrift store... same points being made... but under the George W. administration.

shouldn't laugh, though... it's scary how far those folks will go to destroy our democracy...

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 10:13 AM

Well, well, well...

Looks as if yesterdays poll numbers have scared Johnny Bonehead and his boys to make a deal... Expect one by the end of the day...

The next 6 weeks will be interesting as the TeaPubs try to extort something - anything - so as to save face for their boneheaded move...

I hope that we revisit the reality that Obama and the Dems have given over $3T in cuts (over 10 years) already and that the stingy TeaPubs have given only $600B (over 10 years) in revenue... I hope that BIG MEDIA doesn't allow itself to be bullied yet again by FOX unNews and allows some daylight on the what really is happening here...

"We want our country back" is a slogan... Not a policy position...

When it comes down to it, the Dems have nothing else to give in terms of spending cuts... Every federal agency is all ready running on fumes... This idea that we could just shut down the EPA is the dumbest thing in the world... We will end up poisoning our country with toxic waste being dumped into storm sewers if we allow the polluters to do what they want... These people have no consciences and would do that in a heartbeat...

Seems that Tea (Tin Foil) Nation is all about this Ayn Rand model... We can't go there... It would be like the United States of Somalia... That is no exaggeration... Not fear peddling or anything like that... It is reality... A lawless nation ain't the answer...

BTW, remember back three or four years ago and the Repubs and the Chamber of Commerce were weeping about all these mean, spiteful regulations that Obama was imposing on them??? So John Daley, then Obama's Chief-of-Staff, invited the Chamber to a meeting and told them to bring with them the regs they didn't like... Remember the outcome??? The Chamber didn't show and after that you didn't hear a peep out of them about mean and spiteful regs...

Face it, the Kochs, the Chamber and the TeaPubs have been running on pure mythology and propaganda... Once it is striped away there is nothing... No ideas... No proposals... No nothing... All brought to you by the party of "No"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 08:17 AM

My God! I agree with Richard on a political point, the end of life as we know it!

Nonetheless, he is absolutly correct.

Bobert has it spot on, and you should stick to the music.

No, seriously, don't give up the day job. Politically you are a non starter!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Oct 13 - 10:26 PM

Well, it all goes to show, that there are a lot of ill informed idiots out there! That's what they get for believing the bankster/corporate owned "News Media"!!

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Oct 13 - 07:16 PM

That's funny, GfinS... I wrote the same thing at the WaPo and got 77 likes... 10 likes is a lot... 20 is like crazy a lot... 77??? Off the charts... Apparently, people who do keep up with news, understand exactly what I am saying...

Your proclamations are nothing but flagellation and noise...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Oct 13 - 12:24 PM

Coming from you, that's not much of an endorsement!

..and Bobert is NOT 'on the money'..he is just spewing more party politics.
The convergence of the debt ceiling, and the government shut down was known, and strategies planned for LONG ago...with objectives that gives the appearance that the 'solution' will be one that benefits will be the 'only logical answer'..but in reality, it's just a bunch of contrived nonsense, leveraging the banksters, and made palatable, by their owned, politicians, and the parties, they pretend to represent!
Wake up, and get a life!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 13 - 12:18 PM

There is one certainty, and GfS understands it, if we want to see social and economic change in the UK and the US, it can never be achieved by one section over another.
We must have unity against the corporates, and as there are few socialists left anywhere, we on the "left are going to have to compromise more than most.
We have to understand that nowadays we are a weak political minority, due to the unbelievably stupid social changes that we have legislated for, the illegal, immoral wars we have supported and our acceptance of the biggest robbery of all time, the financial crash.
We have been outflanked by the string pullers aided by the media, and have little credibility left.
There is no way that any of us are about to see a decent realistic society, but we should have the intelligence to make a start on bringing one about.

Divisiveness is the worst action. We must start to see that the ordinary folk are just that..."ordinary folk" who have absorbed a different sort of propaganda.

We all want to see a BETTER world.

The real enemy is FINANCE and its front line troops in the Media.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Oct 13 - 03:30 AM

Don't be silly Fugitive From Sanity. Bobert, as usual, is bang on the money.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Oct 13 - 01:59 AM

Bobert, You're beating a dead horse. You keep trying to draw people into the division game, and therefore taking their eyes off the 'why's' and 'what for'.....we can all name some group of corrupt 'financiers' for ALL the political agendas, on all sides...left, right and middle..and they all do it for pretty much the same reason. Your obsession with the 'Tea Pubs' and KKK'ers and anything even remotely to the center, of your radical left position, does NOT make them any less corrupt than those funding YOUR position!...Get over it, and do something constructive, besides playing the blame game 'ad nauseum'!..must we subscribe to a new group of people to hate???..or can't we spread anything better to believe in????..or for that fact, have qualities that rise above the hate mongering, that would set us apart, and maybe a little higher???? ...or must we be delegated to the same 'hate energy' of 'the other side'...making us just the same assholes, as you perceive them to be???????????
It's like arguing over whose vomit is better!!!!
Wise up!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 13 - 07:14 PM

Lets' do a little review here...

In 2011 when the TeaPubs threatened to allow the US to default they got $1.2T in cuts to social programs outta Obama and gave up...

...not one dime in revenues...

Then when the Teapubs a year later threatened to not fund the government budget they forced Obama into the sequestration and agreed that they would negotiate in the "Super Committee" and then refused to negotiate forcing another $2T more in cuts and...

...not one dime in revenues...

There's an old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice, shame on me..."

We're on round three and there is nothing left for Obama to give up in cuts... The rate of increase in federal spending is lower now than anytime since WW II...

Fce it, the TeaPubs don't negotiate... They demand...

Fuck 'um... They are the ***takers***... No more...

BTW, the average net worth of a House TeaPub is $1.4M... These are rich people... So much for this salt-of-the-earth grassroots persona that the TeaPubs are pushing...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Oct 13 - 02:15 PM

Charmion: "The sheer contempt so many Americans evidently feel for their own government."

Yes, besides it being a device, for gaining control, and hiding the source of it, things have been done by 'Our Government' that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the 'will of the people'....instead, we are being told as what we HAVE to accept, by BOTH parties, to accommodate the will of the financial moguls who are actually in control....and BTW, the U.K. is not only exempt from it, they are active participants!! The guys 'behind the scenes'(or curtain, if you like), have everybody mistakenly blaming the 'other party', when in fact, the exert control over BOTH of them!..It's only the daft, slow learners, who draw their attention from those party's participation, who are perpetuating the 'divisions' for their own personal aggrandizement!!
There's a few of them on here....but in reality, they are antiques!

...........

In regards to my last post, about the Saudis and the pipeline, if Iran wasn't so pre-occupied with destroying Israel, they'd be breathing down the Saudi's back..who just so happen to 'own' a massive amount of our debt....till we blow them off.....diplomatically, of course, and let them twist in the wind...to fend for themselves...So they are damned if they do help us, with oil, and buying our notes, and damned if they don't capitulate to the Muslim uprisings....the rest of the 'debt' thing, is ONLY because of the Banksters, and paying them off the 'interest'... in regards to the 'debt' ceiling.
All this, by the way, is contrived bullshit....but it IS serving its purpose...but not for what a lot of you may think.....Ah, alas, bullshit political partisan talking points...no wonder no one is paying much attention to the music, anymore...you ain't saying anything!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Oct 13 - 09:14 AM

> The sheer contempt so many Americans evidently feel for their own government.

Always a factor (remember the Civil War?), but the Modern Age of polarization and all-round anti-federalism can almost be pinpointed to 1968-1975.

At least that's how I remember it.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Charmion
Date: 09 Oct 13 - 07:30 AM

You know what blows my mind?

The sheer contempt so many Americans evidently feel for their own government.

That is *so* weird.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Oct 13 - 05:01 AM

I note with some amusement that Barton can't even spell "Der Fuhrer" (and I omit the umlaut through laziness not ignorance)

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Oct 13 - 02:44 AM

Donuel: "That the Kochs haven't told the GOP or tea party exactly what they want in exchange to reopen the government and pay the debt ceiling (it changes day by day) is very curious indeed but that would be speculation that I put in another post."

Here, I'll spare you the trouble......What they want, and the goal for utilizing the 'bargaining chips', long ago anticipated and planned for, that Obama will go for, as soon as he can pull it off with forced 'support' from the wannabe so-called liberals, is none other than the Keystone Pipeline...and without much 'brain straining', you can see that the present climate in the mid east, Saudi Arabia being put in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation with its neighbors, our 'debt', and the 'outcry' for us to 'do something', the time may be at hand...with only minimal opposition....and even 'so-called' limp-wristed, 'liberals' will be rationalizing it away, as Obama's 'second greatest achievement'.... (rolls eyes)....to 'save the economy'!!!??

...and the Bushes and Rockefellers, among a FEW others, will be happy as well!.....and 'so-called liberals' will be proud!!

Now that wasn't too hard, was it?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 13 - 01:43 AM

I ran the numbers and the plot to make money on US bonds after a default is bogus. Inflation alone would wipe out existing fortunes by a third to three quarters. Not even a multi billionaire could keep holdings in an inflation proof environment.
The mystery continues. Why would a default be sought by anyone other than an enemy of the USA? Confiscation like in Cyprus and Greece couldn't happen here.

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Oct 13 - 09:46 PM

This shut down was engineered in detail 2 years ago by the Koch Bros. according to the NYT.

The media has said that the overarching question is who is to blame, A or B.
Neither is it the important question or is it really A or B.

The important question is why the Koch Bros decided to take this direction.

I would ask you to educate yourself with 'the Koch Bros exposed' or other independent historically accurate source.

I will give a rough outline about who they are and where they came from. A very unique place indeed.

Their father made his fortune in the 1930's Soviet Union under a direct contract with Joseph Stalin to develop vast oil fields and refineries for Stalin's war efforts.

Upon returning to the US Koch created his own oil refinery corporation and soon had over 200 million dollars (a lot for 1949) seed money for serious capitalization. Father Koch became the largest donor to the John Birch Society. He was a kingpin in the red baiting and the communist scare campaign partly to throw the scent off his early days and part to accuse American blacks as the core of the Communist party with the help of Jews to take over America. As a rich anti communist he associated with J Edgar Hoover and gave Hoover a lot of money and a lot of fear of Martin Luther Kings and other civil rights "communists".

His son's Charles and David grew up in a unique household where segregation was the American way and wealth was entitled to real Americans like their Dad. Dad would say the only thing that makes someone more important than you is what they know that you don't, if you buy what they know you are more powerful than them. The Koch Bros. have taken that lesson to heart and have always relied upon at least 4 and sometimes 5 Think Tanks to retain their fortune and find new ways of increasing it into the future by molding the America that they want as the goose that will give them golden eggs forever.

each of them personally make over20 million dollars a day. Their corporations total well over 100 Billion dollars a year. After saving and investing this money over 45 years their fortune can rent to buy America as a whole and are on the verge with their friends on the Supreme Court like Scalia to stop renting and own America outright with the NEW citizens United which is like the first one but on steroids.

David Koch has been known to have a conscience but Charles is a social psychopath and more dedicated than David. Charles character is best measured by his behavior on a crashed airliner. He was in first class and was about to depart the front exit amid smoke when he pulled the curtain and say people on fire and others struggling to free the wing and rear exits that were jammed. He then replaced the curtain and exited in silence without telling anyone else that an exit was clear up front. He later said he was afraid that other people could have stampeded him if he had told anyone else.


If you have ever watched an hour of FOX cable news 40 minutes out of 60 is dedicated to agenda's generated by the Koch think tanks and given the go ahead to be repeated in the fox echo chamber.
Here are some of the issue the Koch think tanks have spent months on FOX being drilled into the national audience;
social security is bankrupt!!
increase the age to 70 for SS benefits
Opt out of Obama care
resegregate North Carolina Schools (stop forced bussing)
Give social Security to Wall Street to Invest.
Obama is not an American
Have governors ban state public unions
Think tank climate change deniers
Suppression of the vote for blacks and the poor.
Nearly 9 out of 10 political conservative fights waged in this country originate in the Koch Bros think tanks.
I can tell you the names of each tank and the one they were thinking of owning outright but if you are curious you will find them.

Their wish list is to have no taxes, no regulations and social engineering along the lines of 1950 America.

Who the Kochs own lock stock and barrel is becoming more important than what they own.
They currently own 14 Republican Governors, Liz Cheney candidate, Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan, Rand Paul, Boehner, 40 freshman tea party congress people and Senator Cruz to name but a few. The amount of money they got from the Kochs is always less than 100 grand but what they really get in the form of trust funds that are under Koch control is far greater. They own Clarence Thomas and Scalia while Roberts is a close friend but a wild card conservative strategist of his own. He is about to decide if Citizens United should go farther so that owning congressmen and senators will be free of how much $ may be given to them.

They created the tea party with Prosperity for growth
Freedom works under Army and half a dozen other dispensaries of money to hedge their bets for a base that was leaving the GOP.
Spending over 10 billion dollars out of their 3 trillion dollar fortune is like chump change. So far the returns have been working better than ever.

That the Kochs haven't told the GOP or tea party exactly what they want in exchange to reopen the government and pay the debt ceiling (it changes day by day) is very curious indeed but that would be speculation that I put in another post.

Their unique history and father along with 4 trillion that can buy anything their think tanks think up like funding universities and colleges only by signing a contract that professors who are not in accord with Koch philosophies and policies will jeopardize the funds promised to the university. By controlling faculty they own over 100 universities.



I hope you are beginning to see that the shutdown is really a show down between President Obama and the Koch Bros. Obama offends every sense the Koch Bros. feel. They really hate the idea that a black is in the white house. Obama cost them the presidency of Mitt Romney. The Kochs gave enormous amounts of money to Mitt second only to Adelman the casino owner.

Obama is in a sense going up against the John Birch Society KKK in a literal way. If you listened close to Obama today you heard him refer to "extreme elements of the Republican party" and to have them reconsider their dire actions. He was referring to the Kochs since he had already addressed the House republican congressmen in the previous paragraph.

Could someone link the NYT article on the Koch Bros. and the shut down?