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BS: US Government shutdown

akenaton 02 Oct 13 - 06:28 PM
Lighter 02 Oct 13 - 06:41 PM
Bobert 02 Oct 13 - 07:21 PM
Bill D 02 Oct 13 - 07:42 PM
Greg F. 02 Oct 13 - 08:05 PM
Bobert 02 Oct 13 - 08:17 PM
Don Firth 02 Oct 13 - 10:35 PM
Richard Bridge 03 Oct 13 - 03:29 AM
GUEST,Grishka 03 Oct 13 - 08:10 AM
Lighter 03 Oct 13 - 08:12 AM
Bill D 03 Oct 13 - 08:56 AM
akenaton 03 Oct 13 - 09:46 AM
KB in Iowa 03 Oct 13 - 09:47 AM
akenaton 03 Oct 13 - 09:59 AM
Lighter 03 Oct 13 - 10:25 AM
KB in Iowa 03 Oct 13 - 10:28 AM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 03 Oct 13 - 11:26 AM
GUEST,John from Kemsing 03 Oct 13 - 11:45 AM
GUEST,Grishka 03 Oct 13 - 12:37 PM
akenaton 03 Oct 13 - 01:23 PM
Peter Kasin 03 Oct 13 - 06:03 PM
Andrez 04 Oct 13 - 04:47 AM
Les from Hull 04 Oct 13 - 10:58 AM
dick greenhaus 04 Oct 13 - 11:11 AM
Lighter 04 Oct 13 - 11:21 AM
Stu 04 Oct 13 - 11:24 AM
Bettynh 04 Oct 13 - 11:43 AM
Les from Hull 04 Oct 13 - 12:02 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 04 Oct 13 - 09:18 PM
Bobert 04 Oct 13 - 09:26 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 04 Oct 13 - 10:47 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 05 Oct 13 - 06:38 AM
Lighter 05 Oct 13 - 08:23 AM
Suzy Sock Puppet 05 Oct 13 - 09:55 AM
Lighter 05 Oct 13 - 10:01 AM
Bobert 05 Oct 13 - 10:38 AM
akenaton 05 Oct 13 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,Grishka 05 Oct 13 - 11:14 AM
Lighter 05 Oct 13 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,Grishka 05 Oct 13 - 03:18 PM
Lighter 05 Oct 13 - 03:39 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 05 Oct 13 - 07:34 PM
Bobert 05 Oct 13 - 08:02 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 05 Oct 13 - 09:21 PM
Jim Martin 05 Oct 13 - 10:58 PM
Stringsinger 06 Oct 13 - 10:13 AM
Greg F. 06 Oct 13 - 11:37 AM
akenaton 06 Oct 13 - 04:40 PM
Lighter 06 Oct 13 - 04:46 PM
akenaton 06 Oct 13 - 04:48 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 06:28 PM

GUEST squeezer....I certainly think that a nationalised health service, free at the point of delivery is an excellent concept.
The point I am making is, we as a society do not deserve such a concept, and are unfit to safeguard it.

Look at this thread, how left and right dislike one another, how they are divided over irrelevancies instead of fighting the real enemy which is the whole political and economic system.
We are ruled by money, our value is weighed in money, without money we are worthless....and yet "intelligent" people still talk as if we have "equality" or anything resembling "equality"

Grinshka is correct, we should be uniting to form a new less money orientated society, the alternative being decades of stagnation and a couple of generations of kids with no purpose in life.
Until our living standards fall so low that the system judges that we are worth exploiting again!
At least the Tea Party folks seem to be in the mood to contemplate change, probably change that we on the left will not like....to begin with... but change we must, for the money and jobs have gone for good.

Global Capitalism is cyclical, we have been near the top of the cycle for a hundred years, but Global Capital moves on to new exploitations, we have become redundant, along with our kids and grand kids......and do you think any of the political party's really care? As long as they can divide and rule they are happy.....and our masters are happy, for the more deeply we are divided, the more easily they can squeeze the blood from our bodies, cut our living standards and render us an ineffective lumpen mass.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 06:41 PM

Illinois voter comments on TV:

"The shutdown is a good thing. The less the government does, generally the better."

"Obama should give up on Obamacare and do something to help people who are struggling."


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 07:21 PM

Funny segment last night on MSNBC where people on the street are asked two questions:

1. How do you like Obamacare???

2. How do you like the Affordable Care Act???

It was amazing how many people hated Obamacare but loved the Affordable Care Act???

Garbage in = garbage out...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 07:42 PM

"The shutdown is a good thing. The less the government does, generally the better."

That has become just a mantra for folks who have not studied history or politics in any depth. They, in general, "don't like being regulated or told what to do" so they parrot that vague generalization about "less government"... until they want something they need government regulation or taxes for. You do NOT run a huge country with world-wide concerns without a system... and you do NOT make decisions based on what Libertarians shout from street corners!


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 08:05 PM

but I often wonder if they actually 'believe' much of it

Yes, they do, Bill - in their colossal ignorance, they believe all of it.

Would be easier to deal with if they were just putting on a show for political advantage.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 08:17 PM

Want the following:

Poison air???

Polluted water???

Poverty???

Privatization of everything down to gravity itself???

No public education???

Vote for the Tea Party... This is their ideal America...

Want to see their ideal country??? Rent "Mad Max After the Thunder Dome" That's exactly what they want... Or plan a vacation in Somalia...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 10:35 PM

Bobert, your post just above at 02 Oct 13 - 07:21 PM (it depends on what you call it, "Obamacare" or "the Affordable Care Act") is another example of why a large percentage of the populace is in dire need of a good dope-slap!

========

Highly recommended:

The March of Folly, by historian and writer Barbara W. Tuchman, Random House Trade Paperbacks (February 12, 1985). Barbara Tuchman is the acclaimed author of The Guns of August, about World War I, and a number of other books.

In The March of Folly she shows how, throughout history, rulers, governments, and those in positions of power have become victims of their own willful folly, which Tuchman defines as "pursuing a policy contrary to their own self-interest." Time and time again, rulers and governments have acted shortsightedly and contrary to common sense. In each example, an alternative course of action was available. The government actions were endorsed by a group, not just an individual leader. But these actions were perceived by many others as counterproductive or downright disastrous in their own time. Yet, those in power blundered ahead.

Many individuals are guilty of folly (Tuchman also calls this wooden headedness), but when governments persist in folly, their actions can adversely affect thousands, even millions of lives.

Folly is a child of power. "The possession of power frequently causes failure to think."

Barbara Tuchman is always a good read.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 03:29 AM

With all due respect, the pursuit only of self interest is one of the viler things about those governments that are vile. Government should know right from wrong and heed the difference.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 08:10 AM

Greg, I understood you alright. My point was that all of us, even real "geniuses", lack expert knowledge in most areas of politics; this being so, we must rely on our best knowledge of human nature, more often than we consciously realize. If a leader, however right, talks like an arrogant and agenda-driven lawyer, and some intellectuals who do not appear agenda-driven criticize him strongly, people are bound to be suspicious. Other countries have developed techniques to reduce the perceived percentage of ideology in such fundamental decisions - it can work, to a certain extent.

There is no need to be ashamed of learning from other countries - these have learned a lot from the USA and from each other.

Ake, indeed I think that western society overestimates the significance of money (and other concepts such as personal power, beauty, "intelligence", fitness, etc.), but changing that is a distant goal. Shouting for a technical change of the government system, and working out one that is at least as good as that of other countries, should be done right now.

A system that favours vile or stupid politicians to come to power is vile or stupid in itself. If you want to wait for good people to come to power accidentally, you may wait forever, and you would not deserve them anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 08:12 AM

Well, everybody has interests.

Tuchman's point is that organizations can be so collectively stupid that they forget their overriding interests in pursuit of glittering, usually short-term, advantages.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 08:56 AM

Grishkas's comment deserves repeating with emphasis:


"A system that favours vile or stupid politicians to come to power is vile or stupid in itself. If you want to wait for good people to come to power accidentally, you may wait forever, and you would not deserve them anyway."

We are in this stupid, awkward situation because those 'extra' people who voted for Obama in 2008 didn't bother to vote for Democrats in 2010 - so we got our 10 year census and subsequent re-districting done by Republicans... who proceeded to do a super-Gerrymander and ensure that more Republicans are elected to the House, even if there were more votes for Democrats.
Now those Republicans are further restricting voting rights in an attempt to 'game the system' so that it is much MORE difficult to recapture the House and redress the injury.
If we get a Republican Senate and/or president before the situation is corrected, we can look forward to a totally stacked court system which will rubber stamp most of the egregious monotheism the Republicans are planning.

Scary enough for you?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 09:46 AM

"game the system"

The system is a "game".

While the people bicker the corporate capitalists rub their hands


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 09:47 AM

I fail to see that believing in absolute fairytale made-up nonsensical no-facts-need-apply ignorant anti-intellectual bullshit is something to be admiredc - or for that matter condoned.

I did not say that I either admired or condoned the tea party repubs.

I said that I have come to see the non-tea party repubs as the ones who could have prevented this but lacked the backbone to do it.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 09:59 AM

What's so good about the Democrats?
They would have taken you into another unwinnable war, (just as Blair's Labour Party did in the UK).....if they had not been seriously outflanked by the "undemocratic" Russians.

Can you believe it! these bastards actually wanted a political solution!!
They must be mad!


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 10:25 AM

Update on pay:

According to CNN, all members of the House have promised either to forgo their pay during the shutdown or else give it to charity.

If furloughed government employees don't eventually get paid.

A big if. However, four representatives- two Democrats and two Republicans - so far have no plans to inconvenience themselves even in theory.

However, 431 out of 435 isn't bad.

BTW, the cartoon capitalists supposedly "rubbing their hands" will be in for a surprise when the stock market tanks and the recession roars back, as it undoubtedly will if the same Fools on the Hill refuse in two weeks to raise the so-called "debt ceiling" (in reality the "authorization to pay our last-year's bills at home and abroad")


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 10:28 AM

What's so good about the Democrats?

Was this comment directed at me? I did not mention the Democrats at all, for good or ill.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 11:26 AM

I `ad that Fisher T.Fish from Connecticut in my cab the other day. `e `ad a bad case of shingles and asked me to take `im to the nearest `ospital which `appened to be "St Thom`s", NHS.
I said, just to take `is mind off the pain, "Them "Good Old Boys" from down south `ave really got your lot discombobulated, aint they."
`e said, "Right on Jim. Obamacare, my ass, but I just don`t know how the nations gonna cope."
I said, "Not to worry, Fish. Belgium didn`t `ave a government for eighteen months and it didn`t make a blind bit of difference. Maybe there`s something we can all learn from that!!"


Whaddam I Like??


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 11:45 AM

I respect to AK`s comment on service abuse I do feel there are some questionable practises.
Some years I attended Pembury Hospital for serious spinal treatment. It was decided I needed a MRS scan. Bearing in mind the discomfort and pain was often chronic my consultant said I could go on a list that may take weeks but If I paid £500, which I did, I could be done in three days, outside normal hospital daily times, NHS equipment and NHS staff!!


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 12:37 PM

"Gaming the system" seems to be the name of the game, exploiting loopholes in the rules. But the rules can be changed, even "sacred" constitutions. If Egyptians can do it, why not US Americans?

Lighter's "BTW" (03 Oct 13 - 10:25 AM) conforms to what BBC tells us. Don't be too sure in advance who profits from which scenario. Many clever "brinkmen" went over the edge collectively, like the most stupid lemmings.

Belgium: not exactly a role model, but never had a real shutdown. Even Italy's ex-Cavaliere, with quite a record of ruining his country, could not afford to torpedo the present government.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 01:23 PM

Jim Knowledge........humourist and philosopher! ;0)


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 06:03 PM

National Park Service ranger here, hoping to get back to work soon!


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Andrez
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 04:47 AM

Hmmmmm so since we find Mudcat remaining open for business can I assume that it has been declared to be an essential service and hence precluded from being shut down?

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 10:58 AM

We've booked a holiday in a couple of weeks' time. The theme of the holiday - visiting US National Parks. So we are hoping that the non-Tea Party Repubs can soon bring the idiot wing of their party to understand what this action is likely to do to their hopes of ever having a Republican President in the foreseeable future. Just a view from over the pond.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 11:11 AM

There's a sort of twisted appeal to the idea of only funding things youi happen to agree with.Do you think the House would mind if I did that with my income tax? (I don't approve of subsidies to oil companies, and I don't care for much of our military spending. Not paying for these would really help reduce my tax bill)


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 11:21 AM

A Tea Party leader/theorist not in government explained to CNN yesterday that the shutdown is perfectly justified because

1. no Republican, and certainly no Tea Party member, voted for the Affordable Care Act when it was passed by the House and Senate.

2. the President refuses to negotiate further with Tea Party Congressmen after agreeing to cut his proposed funding for the Act by $40 billion.

3. and though the President was re-elected by a majority of voters on an Obamacare platform despite years of Republican campagining to gut or repeal it, "he would never have been re-elected if Americans knew then what they know now about Obamacare."

No, I am not making this up.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Stu
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 11:24 AM

So . . . some Americans are armed to the teeth with guns and stuff because they hate the idea of government intruding on their freedom and want to defend themselves against their elected representatives, but all I am hearing on the telly is everyone moaning as the government is having LESS to do with their lives. Has the fabled answer-to-everything free market stopped working over there or what?

Shurely shome mishtake?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bettynh
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 11:43 AM

Don't cancel your tickets, Les, even if this nonsense should go on. It may be a bit of work, but look at our state parks systems. Every state has wonderful scenic splendors and historic sites set aside with no federal funding. Many times they're close to the big national parks.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 12:02 PM

Thank you for your advice, Betty. It's an organised itinary, but I can suggest it to the holiday organisers if it gets to that.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 09:18 PM

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton - PM
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 06:28 PM

GUEST squeezer....I certainly think that a nationalised health service, free at the point of delivery is an excellent concept.
The point I am making is, we as a society do not deserve such a concept, and are unfit to safeguard it.

Look at this thread, how left and right dislike one another, how they are divided over irrelevancies instead of fighting the real enemy which is the whole political and economic system.
We are ruled by money, our value is weighed in money, without money we are worthless....and yet "intelligent" people still talk as if we have "equality" or anything resembling "equality"

Grinshka is correct, we should be uniting to form a new less money orientated society, the alternative being decades of stagnation and a couple of generations of kids with no purpose in life.
Until our living standards fall so low that the system judges that we are worth exploiting again!
At least the Tea Party folks seem to be in the mood to contemplate change, probably change that we on the left will not like....to begin with... but change we must, for the money and jobs have gone for good.

Global Capitalism is cyclical, we have been near the top of the cycle for a hundred years, but Global Capital moves on to new exploitations, we have become redundant, along with our kids and grand kids......and do you think any of the political party's really care? As long as they can divide and rule they are happy.....and our masters are happy, for the more deeply we are divided, the more easily they can squeeze the blood from our bodies, cut our living standards and render us an ineffective lumpen mass.

***************************************************************************************************

YUP!

But at this point, I would also like to say that I have renewed confidence in the president that he won't give in this time. He cannot, should not give in to these cold hearted bastards who don't care if people drop dead on the street.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 09:26 PM

TeaPubs have shot their wad...

Maybe Obama throws them a chip off a bone to give them some face-saving??? Who cares???

This one is in the books and everyone knows it... 40 wackos can't rule the country... It's really rather simple...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 10:47 PM

Oh yeah Bobie, have faith. The apocalypse is not now. That's all bullshit. The world can be better. People have to decide. The choice is there. Everything is a choice, from big to small.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 06:38 AM

""We are ruled by money, our value is weighed in money, without money we are worthless....and yet "intelligent" people still talk as if we have "equality" or anything resembling "equality"""

Equality is an aspiration Ake, and a good one which I would have expected left wingers to like.

I'd hate to believe in your miserable and defeatist attitude to life, especially the idea of destroying the whole structure of current economics to go back to some imagined "good old days" which never existed.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 08:23 AM

A TP Congressman explained yesterday that the deadline to "raise the debt ceiling" (that is, to authorize the payment of what we already owe) is a fraud because "There's plenty of money in the Treasury."

Others disagree. But Congress still has to approve the payment.

The guy's theory seemed to be that when push comes to shove, Obama can use some Presidential-decree legerdemain to find money to avert disaster.

Of course, as soon as he did, he'd be "King Obama" to the TP people, seizing power from Congress, thwarting the Will of the People, undermining the Constitution, blah blah blah. Funny how that would work out.

Then they can monopolize Congress's time pushing for a new TP Constitution.

As explained yesterday, TP leaders don't believe in compromise *or* majority rule. As I heard one say a few months back, "Negotiation means getting the other side to see things your way and do what you want. You never compromise on principles."


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 09:55 AM

I'm not saying that the whole damn thing is not corrupt from top to bottom. Just saying there's a little bit of wiggle room. We need to support this president. The more we support him, the better he'll do. He needs us. He can't do this alone.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 10:01 AM

At the moment, it's entirely in John Boehner's hands. If he calls a vote on a simple resolution to fund the government without any mention of Obamacare, it would pass in a heartbeat.

The the Fools could try again to repeal it by legislation. And almost certainly they would try because that's the kind if Fools they are.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 10:38 AM

What Suzie said...

Yeah, we are in a major pickle that has nothing to do with Obamacare or debt limits and everything to do with an experiment being carried out by the radical right wing to see if a minority can impose its radical agenda on the majority...

Obama is correct in seeing it exactly that way... This attempted power grab by 40 or so rabid Tea Partiers can not be allowed or we will have set a very dangerous precedence for our nation and how we govern...

But this goes well beyond this ambush as we know are seeing just how important it is to fix the systemic problems with our elections in gerrymandering and unlimited secret $$$...

What I see on the horizon is a 3rd party... Call it the "Purple Party... Call it "Do Something Right Party"... Call it what you want... But this 3rd party will have just one plank in it's platform: Fix our democracy"...

BTW, there are right wingers who love to say "We don't have a democracy... We have a republic"...

Oh??? Well, what the heck is a "republic"??? Really... And how do corrupt elections work with having a "republic"???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 11:12 AM

Just so long as you don't call it the "liberal" Party Bob...we've got too many of them already :00


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 11:14 AM

Bobert, as you know better than I, many "third parties" existed and failed miserably. If I were a citizen of the USA, I would call for a political movement, open to members of all parties but led by political scientists who work out a new constitution. If this is done well, and aided by strong pressure from the street, the old parties may find it wiser to join in, or preferably to dissolve in favour of new parties with clearer agendas.

Egyptians have not been entirely successful yet, but they are not likely to give up.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 12:42 PM

> a new constitution

Fortunately, all that's needed are Congressional rules to plug the procedural loopholes that are allowing this behavior.

If the nation's dingbats get working on a "new constitution," I guarantee you won't like what they come up with, regardless of your politics.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 03:18 PM

Lighter, since I am not a US citizen, it does not matter whether I like your (future) constitution. General experience tells me that patching one "loophole" after the other is not likely to succeed, since each and every such hole has its stakeholders who defend it with claws and teeth. A complete restart may be easier - it will produce losers as well, but only in one go.

Political scientists are needed for technical advice. The rest must be done in public discussions.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 03:39 PM

> Political scientists

Very political, not at all scientists.

Every side would marshal its own "experts."

Anyway, there will not be a second Constitutional convention in our lifetimes. There is neither the will nor the necessity (real or perceived).

The last time anyone tried it, they came up with the Confederate Constitution. Bad idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 07:34 PM

""Just so long as you don't call it the "liberal" Party Bob...we've got too many of them already :00""

Until you take the trouble to learn what a "liberal" is, that post is meaningless.

Come to think of it, when you have taken the trouble, it will be just as meaningless.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 08:02 PM

"Liberal" and "Conservative" are meaningless, yet highly demonized terms, that mean absolutely nothing...

Call it a movement or 3rd party is also meaningless...

What has to occur here is that enough people see that the House of Representatives is badly broken... The Senate is not much better...

When enough people agree that we need to fix that then, be it a movement or 3rd party, it will happen...

What we need to do now is just what I do... Put it out there... Frame it... Get people thinking... I do a lot of posting at the Washington Post and have been pushing this and have quite a few followers who are on board... That's the way this works... It is rare for any post to get 10 "likes"... I've had posts that accumulate 60 or 70 "likes"... That is a lot of folks on board spreading the word...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 09:21 PM

> I do a lot of posting at the Washington Post and have been pushing this and have quite a few followers who are on board...

Can you give us a link, Bobert?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Jim Martin
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 10:58 PM

IMF's Christine Lagarde's understandably getting very twitchy - could we not be heading to a global meltdown if the Republicans continue their childish tantrums?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24384759


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 10:13 AM

Two documentary movies illustrate the problem with the US congress and government: "The Dirty Wars" by Jeremy Scahill and "Inequality For All" by Robert Reich. These are must sees!

We'll see if the ignorance of the American public prevails or if they wake up
and see that they've been wounded by both parties. (More by Banana Republicans, though).


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 11:37 AM

A GOP bent on killing us to save us
Maureen Dowd
Published 3:21 pm, Saturday, October 5, 2013

A place once called Washington

An ape sits where Abe sat.

The year is 2084, in the capital of the land formerly called North America.

The peeling columns of the Lincoln Memorial, and Abe's majestic head, elegant hands and big feet are partially submerged in sludge.

The white marble monuments are now covered in ash and overrun with weeds. Tea party zombies, thrilled with the dark destruction they have wreaked on the planet, continue to maraud around the Hill, eager to chomp on humanity some more.

Thomas Jefferson's utopia has devolved into Ted Cruz's dystopia.

In 2084, there's little sign of life in the godless and barren lost world. The insurance exchanges are open and the kinks are almost ironed out. But there is no one to sign up. Koch brother drones patrol the skies. A gaunt man and sickly boy, wrapped in blue tarps, trudge toward the blighted spot that was once the World War II monument, scene of the first shutdown skirmishes. They know they may not survive the winter.

"How did this happen, Papa?" the boy asks.

"It started very small with a petty fight over a six-week spending bill but quickly mushroomed out of control," the man says.

"Whose fault was it, Papa?" the boy presses.

The man tries to explain: "The Grand Old Party, the proud haven of patriots who believed in a strong national security and fiscal responsibility, was infected with a mutant form of ideology. It was named the Sarahcuda Strain after the earliest carrier. In the infected tea party politicians, brain function decreased and social de-evolution occurred. They began ignoring their basic survival instincts.

"It's hard to believe now, but they were fixated on stopping an effort to get health care to those who couldn't afford it. It eventually led them to destroy all the things they said they held most dear."

The boy is confused. "They killed America because they didn't care about keeping Americans alive?" he asks.

The man sits down. His voice grows faint. "Well, they didn't seem to understand themselves or what they were doing," he continues. "In the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, many of the feverish pols believed they were waging the right and moral fight even as GOP party elders like Jeb Bush, John McCain, Karl Rove and James Baker warned them that they were dragging the country toward catastrophe. The tea party leaders liked to refer to themselves as the Children of Reagan. But as Baker told Peggy Noonan, Reagan always said, 'I'd rather get 80 percent of what I want than go over the cliff with my flag flying.'"

The boy frowns. "But Papa, didn't the healthy Republicans realize the infected ones had lower brain functions?"

''Well, son, they knew there was something creepy about the ringleader, Ted Cruz," the man replies. "His face looked pinched, like a puzzle that had not been put together quite right. He was always launching into orations with a weird cadence and self-consciously throwing folksy phrases into his speeches, like 'Let me tell ya,' to make himself seem Texan, when he was really a Canadian."

The boy looks alarmed. "A Canadian destroyed the world, Papa?"

"Once the government shut down, a plague came, because they had closed the Centers for Disease Control," the man says. "Storms, floods and wildfires raged after FEMA was closed down and the National Guard got decimated.

"Once we went into default, the globe got sucked into the economic vortex. With a lot of the Defense Department, FBI, and intelligence community on forced leave, the country became vulnerable to terrorist attacks. Without the CIA to train the moderate Syrian rebels, Syria fell to al-Qaida.

"After the final American president, Barack Obama, canceled his trip to Asia, that part of the world decided we were weak. China moved quickly to fill the vacuum. Obama grew so disgusted, he spent his final years in office isolated in the White House residence. When he stopped returning the calls of Hasan Rouhani and Bibi Netanyahu, it was only a matter of time before the Middle East went up in flames.

"What is left of the world is being run by Julian Assange from what is left of the Ecuadorean Embassy in London and by some right-wing nut in a cabin in Idaho."

The boy begins to cry. "Papa, stop. You're making me sad. Are all the good guys gone?"

Looking through the gray skies toward the ashen Lincoln Memorial, where an ape sits in Abe's chair, the man replies sadly, "Yes, son."


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 04:40 PM

I cant believe you actually posted that Greg.
The collapse of Corporate Capitalism wont be the end of the world, it will be a new beginning for humanity.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 04:46 PM

> The collapse of Corporate Capitalism wont be the end of the world, it will be a new beginning for humanity.

Evidence?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 04:48 PM

.....Don't you realise what these monoliths stand for....and I include Nelsons Column an the Palace of Westminster
They don't stand for freedom, they stand for exploitation both at home and abroad, they stand for slavery, imperialism, and bloody war!

Most of all they stand for the political status quo.
Let them crumble.


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Mudcat time: 26 October 3:38 AM EDT

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