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BS: US Government shutdown

Donuel 08 Oct 13 - 05:34 PM
Bobert 08 Oct 13 - 02:57 PM
Donuel 08 Oct 13 - 01:22 PM
Lighter 08 Oct 13 - 01:05 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 08 Oct 13 - 05:13 AM
akenaton 08 Oct 13 - 03:38 AM
Donuel 07 Oct 13 - 10:46 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Oct 13 - 10:40 PM
Bobert 07 Oct 13 - 09:21 PM
Greg F. 07 Oct 13 - 09:02 PM
Bobert 07 Oct 13 - 07:09 PM
Greg F. 07 Oct 13 - 06:44 PM
Lighter 07 Oct 13 - 03:39 PM
Greg F. 07 Oct 13 - 01:59 PM
akenaton 07 Oct 13 - 01:35 PM
Don Firth 07 Oct 13 - 01:20 PM
Greg F. 07 Oct 13 - 12:23 PM
sciencegeek 07 Oct 13 - 11:56 AM
Lighter 07 Oct 13 - 10:42 AM
Lighter 07 Oct 13 - 10:37 AM
Greg F. 07 Oct 13 - 09:23 AM
Bobert 07 Oct 13 - 09:01 AM
GUEST,Grishka 07 Oct 13 - 07:54 AM
Suzy Sock Puppet 07 Oct 13 - 07:14 AM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Oct 13 - 09:36 PM
Don Firth 06 Oct 13 - 08:59 PM
akenaton 06 Oct 13 - 04:48 PM
Lighter 06 Oct 13 - 04:46 PM
akenaton 06 Oct 13 - 04:40 PM
Greg F. 06 Oct 13 - 11:37 AM
Stringsinger 06 Oct 13 - 10:13 AM
Jim Martin 05 Oct 13 - 10:58 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 05 Oct 13 - 09:21 PM
Bobert 05 Oct 13 - 08:02 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 05 Oct 13 - 07:34 PM
Lighter 05 Oct 13 - 03:39 PM
GUEST,Grishka 05 Oct 13 - 03:18 PM
Lighter 05 Oct 13 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,Grishka 05 Oct 13 - 11:14 AM
akenaton 05 Oct 13 - 11:12 AM
Bobert 05 Oct 13 - 10:38 AM
Lighter 05 Oct 13 - 10:01 AM
Suzy Sock Puppet 05 Oct 13 - 09:55 AM
Lighter 05 Oct 13 - 08:23 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 05 Oct 13 - 06:38 AM
Suzy Sock Puppet 04 Oct 13 - 10:47 PM
Bobert 04 Oct 13 - 09:26 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 04 Oct 13 - 09:18 PM
Les from Hull 04 Oct 13 - 12:02 PM
Bettynh 04 Oct 13 - 11:43 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Oct 13 - 05:34 PM

Thank you Bobert and thank you Don Firth.

I have a tendency to state the truth and then go too far like about the mistake invading Iraq or giving away all our money to the banks who lost their shirts/tarps or that Obama would prove to be more of a right centrist than a liberal, you know, going out on a limb until people don't believe a word.

If you don't get what I'm talking about just think of a rich guy fixing a horse race and betting on the sure thing like the horse he poisoned loses.

Trying not to sound paranoid I stated earlier that I have an overactive imagination and was willing to hedge my bets that this whole shutdown has the undercurrent of being a financial coup by billionaires who will risk the people of the US against enormous insurance bet profits off of CDS treasury bonds (bets that the gov will default on its credit.

I am now "nearly" certain this is a real possibility.



1 The Credit default swaps on US Treasury notes are actually tripling from day to day.

2 The gov shut down is no longer about the ACA. The shut down is no longer about the debt (Dems gave the GOP Paul Ryan level budget) The shut down and default are now spoken of in the same breath.

3 The Gov shut down is no longer about any policy in particular except that they say they want something like respect. Why are Dems confused that the repubs don't know what they want? I bet they want big $ even if it sells out the USA.

4 What better time to have a financial coup than when the Justice Dept and the SEC is closed.

HerE it is: I believe the Koch Bros and their friends are willing to bet 20 billion dollars OR MORE that the politicians they have paid for in the house (especially a career bribe taker like Boehner) to shut down the government and let the debt ceiling "technically" fail.

Those who purchased credit default swaps on the US treasury bonds that will have then defaulted, will get 5 to 10 times their investment back.

Bet 10 billion and get 100 billion. Yes Americans will get hurt but remember you are on the world investment stage and you will look like an Oracle for foreseeing the default so far in advance.

Have the big boys like the Koch bros. invested in these CDS on the treasury of the US early and big? I don't know
It is a financial secret like Hedge funds but what is known is that SOMEBODY HAS ! Who exactly I can not know but look for yourself and see what you want to see.
Will you see deliberate investments via CDS or a nervous market selling bonds or nervous nellies buying bonds at larger interest rates from the 1 year to the 30 year note. Watch how when anyone talks about the credit swaps on T bills they are interrupted or shut up quickly. Do moderators wish to avoid a panic? OR is this inside game just sitting there in plain sight, not to be talked about?


Even if the full default of the US does not happen the mega big investors will keep their CDS until it finally does and make billions and trillions collectively.

I first mentioned that this theory is like a Tom Clancy novel - I'm not a fan anyway but he died the day after the post. I will refrain from advising any antidote to the default and profit scheme. Who in their right mind would sell dollars for pesos? Characters like drug lords might, at least in the James Bond action movie version.

Technically I could still be wrong about the corrupt tea partier Congressmen that Koch has paid from the git go, but billionaires will still make huge windfalls on a default, if it happens.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Oct 13 - 02:57 PM

What exactly does Johnny Bonehead want to negotiate??? Killing off the Affordable Care Act???

That ain't going to happen and Johnny knows it so...

...what else is on his mind???

I mean, he gets up in front of dozens of microphones every day so if there is something else why doesn't he just spit it out...

No, Donuel's post is 100% on the money... The Koch brothers ordered their minions to a meeting in 2011 and told them that he wanted the government to be shut down...

Period...

End of story...

Someone needs to take the Koch brothers to the woodshed and give them each a good whuppin'...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Oct 13 - 01:22 PM

Too cute by half Mr. Guess Again.

This I believe and know:
The richest 1% fund political campaigns at rates 1000 times higher than any grass or artificial turf roots organization . For example Mr. Gingrich had one single donor. Our richest Casino owner donated more to Romney than any single super PAC.

The gilded age of megalomaniac multi billionaire fiends that James Bond tried to contend with, is upon us all.


Perhaps some of you woke up in the eye of the storm and are about to face a terrifying wind. No matter who you are, you will have to cling tightly to the nearest object no matter how precarious just to hold on a little longer.
The purist who only talks but never does anything and the tea party extremist might both grab ahold of the same branch in hopes they won't be swept away.
You the kind hearted liberal have much in common with the tea partier who is paid by Koch in the sense you both had a lot more opinions before you learned the facts.

The fact is, the essence of Democracy is the craven enemy of the dying Republican Party. In the death throes of a huge organization with crazy fringes and confederate roots the Republicans are more dangerous as they grow more desperate. To win anything they have to trick, distort and deny voting access to the majority. THe heart of the Republic the super wealthy do not want Democracy to interfere with their plans.

Democracy is a good plan and has its Achilles heel just as Capitalism has its faults.

You who supports Democracy are recognized as good. If you are, or have become an unwitting enemy of Democracy you need to a take a good hard look at yourself.

You who thinks you are a genius for seeing people who have tried to cling to Koch money and are abject fools for doing that, are heartless A holes. All that separates "you" from "them" are circumstances. Philosophy be damned when you are fighting to keep a roof above your head and food in your stomach.

After all is yelled and done, you were once like a tea party Ayn Rand fanatic and had hundreds of opinions...until you learned the facts.

In this preamble to Civil War II don't you think it is about time you not revile and not scavenge off your fellow American, no matter how many facts they have yet to understand? Knowing better is not smarter, its just knowing by opportunity and chance.

The "mistaken" will not be taught by arrogance. If that's all you leave them they will have to crash and burn their family to death because they will not trust the Dead End sign you waved in their faces with anger in your face.

I trust we will make it through these times of unmoving incivility wars.
Begin with your own civility, be you a tea party joiner or progressive occupier.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Oct 13 - 01:05 PM

Elected by the voters:

http://news.yahoo.com/arizona-de-fuhrer-barton-obama-134942788.html


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Oct 13 - 05:13 AM

Oh MY!!......Oh my, my, my!!

You're arguing over details, that you were given to argue about, and can't see the why's and what-fore's, of the 'bargaining chips'..that, in reality, are only 'stage props' in the theater!!!

T-H-I-N-N-K L-O-N-G-E-R!!!!

(that's the 'illusion' of partisan politics, that blinds your eyes!)

Come on, give it a shot!
What's this 'con game' REALLY about??

(Hint: I've already told you.)

Until You Guess Again,

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 13 - 03:38 AM

Yes I see that Mr McGrath, but obviously I am referring to the system which has brought us to the position we are in today.

There is a school of thought which says that during the process of demolition, you use all the tools at your disposal.

This system is incapable of evolution....its effects can only make things progressively worse
for the majority.

In the "good" times, a few crumbs fall from the table.....in "bad" times we suffer in silence or eat dust!


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 10:46 PM

The shut down was planned right down to the talking points and secret huge meeting of congressmen by the Koch Bros. back in December 2011.
Koch Ind. has given over 900 million to the cause of defeating, defunding and delaying ACA in the form of Congressional elections, commercials, Lobbying, think tanks, and funding various prosperity & freedom artificial turf groups.
NYT goes into great detail of the plan to shut down the government.
The tea party owned congressmen and Boehner are beholden to this corporate donor more than the people or the USA.

They planned in detail but stupidly forgot Obama was not running again, that the debt ceiling actually ran out in May and Oct. 17 is the catastrophic date in which creditors will actually be stiffed without any remedy except for Congress to vote to continue the US economy. The actual intent was to shut down Obama, the government was not the primary target save for Grover Norquist who says "I want to shrink gov down until we can drown it in the bathtub.


The Koch Bros. have succeeded in what Al Qaida did not succeed on 9-11 and that was to shut down the government and completely and accurately decimate the military. they say "bad Obama, look what you have done. They already have fooled some of the people.




*My last 3 hours on the NIH campus.*

With 32,000 employees at the Bethesda NIH location they call it a campus along with research labs hospital and a class 4 lab.

Not far from bld. 1 I watched employees, supervisors and workers prepare to leave work for an unknown time. Some carried their house plants some carried the emotional burden of having to look into the eyes of kids and parents who were scheduled for treatment or intake on Tue.

One woman in a taut business suit was clearly livid as she walked stiffly so fast that a tall man trying to assuage her could hardly keep up although his legs were a foot longer.

The South American cafeteria ladies in their purple smocks were being picked up by husbands who shared the worried look on their faces.

Fisher House was not going to have any new guests, Some of the five year research studies were going to be compromised and short of being scrapped were going to bear an asterisk in the study to explain the interruption.

Scientists who considered projects at the NIH have dropped by 22% and the best people have balked due to unreliability factors under the drone attacks by the anti science Britebarts and super Christians. Despite choosing a religious director the attacks continue on a weekly basis.

The budget cuts if 1.55 billion added to the new 22% cuts are taking their toll. The pan flu vaccine is incomplete and stopped.

This agency has reduced childhood malaria by 90%
This agency distributed the polio vaccine. This agency found the treatment for muscular dystrophy, not the march of dimes.
This agency is joined at the hip of CDC.

The attacks upon the NIH under Bush's OMB is being taken over by tea party know nothing congressmen. Even the NRA has shut down research into to bullet wounds if only by intimidation. The military has had to shield real research being done because of a NRA bill that prohibits facts garnered by research being used by gun control groups.


Nothing prohibits doctors and scientists from quitting and many will after this shut down. if YOU ARE EMPLOYEED BY THE nih YOU ARE FORBIDDEN TO MOON LIGHT OR TAKE A SECOND JOB. Some people will have to quit for financial reason if they get behind bills by over a month.

By noon on last tue. the last of the last workers were ordered to leave campus. those left to work may be security or folks who feed the animals and doctors tending to the previously scheduled patients.

Some sick people admittedly will be harmed beyond all hope
because NIH is CLOSED - in an emergency please call John Boehner !

but he is just following orders and can not order a vote until his billionaire owner says he can.





THE TEA party finally Knows what they want:

1 RESPECT
2 GRATITUDE
3 HONOR
4 MORE CORPORATE WELFARE.


WHEN ITS ALL OVER THE BITCHING ABOUT NIH WORKERS BEING PAID FOR NOTHING WILL NOT MENTION THE HARM WASTE AND DAMAGE THAT HAS BEEN DONE.


DELAY = DAMAGE + DESTRUCTION : THE TEA PARTY EQUATION OF CONTROL


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 10:40 PM

Anyone who questions the system should be supported, whether from left or right.

Now that, aken , is somewhat daft, and I am sure that on reflection you will recognise that. It all depends on the system and on the questions. The Contras in Nicaragua a few years back were "questioning the system". So was Pinochet. So was Mosley.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 09:21 PM

Yes, that is a given... These are all silver-spooners... No matter which one you investigate you find that 90% of the Tea Party House Republicans were born rich... Actually, some of them are examples of...

..."the easiest way to make a small fortune is start out with a larger one"...

Not too sure who said that but lotta of these creeps are people who inherited lots and are now down to there last couple mil and want someone, other than them, for their failures so they try to put the blame on poor and low income people???

Mental cases...

Explains a lot...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 09:02 PM

And also they're the most ignorant & uneducted, Bobert. What we have in operation is the "Revenge Of The C Track".


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 07:09 PM

Great post, Lighter (10;37AM)... The only slight addition I would like to make to it is this... The incoming Tea Party House freshmen are the wealthiest in history with an average net worth of $1.4M...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 06:44 PM

Yeah, Lighter, but being a liberal uppity nigra is about as bad as it gets, no?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 03:39 PM

> Anyone who questions the system should be supported, whether from left or right

I was about to ask "Like Hitler? Pol Pot?" But that would have been unfair! So instead I'll ask, "Like Jeff Davis? Joe McCarthy? Don DeFreeze?"

Anyway, I don't think most of the TPs hate Obama for being black. (They liked Herman Cain.) In their eyes, being a Liberal is far, far worse.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 01:59 PM

the Tea Party, who seem to be anti politics

Righto- that's why there are so many TeaParty assholes in the Federal House and Senate, the State legislatures, and the State governorships.

Anyone who questions the system should be supported, whether from left or right.

Righto - like Osama, Pol Pot, Hermann Goering ........


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 01:35 PM

lighter.....I remember the John Birch Society, I think Pete Seeger wrote a song about them....."The Jack Ash Society"?

I remember them to be overtly racist, during the time when I was protesting in favour of civil rights for black people.

I don't think you can equate them with the Tea Party, who seem to be anti politics.....I'm sure I saw quite a number of black faces at their meetings.

Anyone who questions the system should be supported, whether from left or right.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 01:20 PM

Observations:

A statistic I saw recently says that the richest 400 people in the United States possess one-half of the country's total wealth.

Media tycoon Ted Turner had some 3 billion dollars. He built a sports stadium in Atlanta on his own dime, rather than badgering the tax payers to fund it (as is the case here in Seattle). And he was severely criticized for that. He was also severely criticized because he gave one billion of his three billion dollars to various charities. When he was told that he was "setting a bad example," he responded by saying, "Who in the hell needs that much money!??" And he was severely criticized for saying that!

In a recent survey, people were asked if they approved of "Obamacare." The majority said they were opposed to it. The same people were then asked if they approved of "The Affordable Care Act." The same people who opposed "Obamacare" said they were in favor of the "Affordable Care Act."

They are the same law. "Obamacare" is the name that a lot of people use when talking about the Affordable Care Act.

These are a couple of reasons why I believe that a large percentage of this country's population are severely in need of a good dope slap!

========

I use a power wheelchair to get around the neighborhood. Recently it needed new batteries.

Some years ago I had to have batteries replaced and was appalled at what my local durable medical goods store charged. So I contacted my nephew who worked in a battery store. He came over, looked at the batteries and checked the specs, then said that they were standard marine batteries, the kind you would use in your 36 foot Chris-Craft down at the marina. He told me that they were about $75 dollars apiece, not the $150 dollars apiece that the medical goods store wanted. They only real difference, he said, was the label. All specs were the same. So he got me a pair and installed them for me. Thank you, Tim!

Tim is now living in another city, so I figured that this time I would bite the bullet and pay what the durable medical goods store asked. They came over and installed the new batteries.

A couple of months later, I received a bill from them. My insurance company had paid some $300 dollars for the batteries, which was all they allowed. The durable medical goods company was billing me for an additional $370 dollars!! $520 dollars more than Tim told me they should cost!

That's typical of health care and medical charges in the United States and tends to explain why the health care industry lobbies to keep things just the way they are.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 12:23 PM

Panels, schmanels. ;>)


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: sciencegeek
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 11:56 AM

I bumped into some neighbors from down the valley this weekend & mentioned that I was looking forward to retiring next year. An immediate response from them was to imply that somehow Obama would make that difficult if not impossible. WTF???

My immediate rejoinder was to state that it was the Tea Party and Republicans who were the ones I worried about... especially since each time the Republicans replaced a Democratic administration - both local & national- was when my savings & investments were tanked.

When they realized that I wasn't swallowing their "party line", they then resorted to, "WEll, both parties are no good."

SO - if that's the case, why the immediate attack on Obama? And not, against the current gridlock, etc.

While nice enough folks, neither has even struck me as deep thinkers.. and this is just the target population for the current right wing agenda. Lead the sheep to slaughter, and by the time any of them figure it out it's too d*mn late.

Maybe the way to counter these selfish folks is to keep singing Divers & Lazarus, changing Dives to whatever idiot politician is making the most noise.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 10:42 AM

Greg meant "death panels," not "squads."

Not that it makes much difference.

I saw this TP protest sign: "Obama Lies, Granny Dies!"


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 10:37 AM

Since everyone now has to have some insurance, including healthy young people who would otherwise ignore it till they wound up in the emergency room at taxpayers' expense, the insurance companies are indeed making money on Obamacare. That, plus hatred of higher taxes, is precisely why the "single-payer option" (i.e., complete federal funding through annual taxes) went nowhere.

What the TP really hates about O-care is that the feds are behind it (they hate and fear Washington), and they claim that it's "socialism" which is about the dirtiest word in American politics other than "liberalism," which the GOP has carefully crafted into a precise synonym (except that "liberalism" more overtly includes the hated and feared gay rights). "Socialism" in this case means that the richer you are, the more you'll be hit with "confiscatory taxes." The TP is revolted by this idea because some of them are rich, those that aren't think they will be or should be, and they think that poor people are poor because they're shiftless and immoral and don't deserve "taxpayer dollars" that just encourage them to have more "welfare kids."

Did anyone notice that the TP managed to cut back the Food Stamp program some weeks ago in the name of "economy"? Meanwhile inefficient waste and the notoriously bloated defense spending roar right ahead.

Many TP people believe that one day the UN will invade America on some trumped-up pretext (I am serious), and since we'll have to fight the Russians and Chinese and Cubans and Mexicans and probably everyone else at that point, we can never have enough weapons.

In the '60s they were a handful of kooks calling themselves the John Birch Society. Now there are millions of them, and they don't give damn about anyone else.

Former (conservative) GOP Congressman Vin Weber was on CNN this morning to say that the TP doesn't want to fund the Federal government *ever,* "because they actually hate government." They don't want a Federal government for anything but defense, law enforcement, and regulation of interstate commerce. Then they'll be "free" to be "decent and God-fearing."

The TP rank and file are ignorant, provincial, willful, fundamentalist, bigoted, arrogant, clannish idiots who are proud to be these things because it's "just common sense." They don't believe in majority rule, because "you do not compromise your principles."

They're an angry, uneducated minority, pandered to and egged on by slightly smarter opportunists in and out of office.

To keep sane, you can tell yourself, "Obama got more votes. Obama got more votes. Obama got more votes."


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 09:23 AM

Could someone explain in simple and non polemic terms what it is about "Obamacare" that explains the degree of hostility?

1. There's no such thing as "Obamacare", which is a Tea Party invention; What we have is the is the Affordable Care Act.

2. The fictitious Tea-Party created "Obamacare"[sic], with its "death squads", "socialized medicine", Government-assigned doctors & all the rest of the mountain of bullshit is what has scared and angered people, not the reality.

Also see this thread 02 Oct 13 - 10:26 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 09:01 AM

McG,

This entire mess has nothing to do with Obama"care" and has everything to do with Obama... Ya' see, he is the wrong color...

The Republicans have staked their future on a voting base that is a mix of racists, sexists, tin-foilers and government haters...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 07:54 AM

Pharmaceutical companies make big business in European countries of social health care. Of course, somebody has to pay for it, normally those who are somewhat better off but not "too big to fail", and who are thus likely to be opposed to it. This applies to most acts of government, so the "small government ideologues" are likely to be the actual key figures. They exist in all countries, but their notions of "small" usually translate to "smaller than it is here currently" - markedly different even within European social welfare societies. In fact social welfare is a major boost to economy, very welcome to big businesses who typically manage to dodge taxes.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 07 Oct 13 - 07:14 AM

Obamacare is a remarkably modest innovation, however, insurance and pharmaceutical companies profit from the status quo. Follow the money. These religious fanatics and small government ideologues are just lackeys.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 09:36 PM

Could someone explain in simple and non polemic terms what it is about "Obamacare" that explains the degree of hostility? It sounds a remarkably modest innovation.

I don't mean why there might be people thinking it is far from adequate, and that something more like the British NHS might be better, rather than relying on private insurance, but why anyone other than a small fringe thinks it goes too far in that direction?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 08:59 PM

Regulated Capitalism (post-FDR, pre-Reagan) worked pretty well. It needed a lot of fine tuning, but had Reagan not got away with rescinding all of FDR's regulations, we'd be in pretty good shape.

I know communists and hard-charging socialists don't agree with this, nevertheless, it did work well.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 04:48 PM

.....Don't you realise what these monoliths stand for....and I include Nelsons Column an the Palace of Westminster
They don't stand for freedom, they stand for exploitation both at home and abroad, they stand for slavery, imperialism, and bloody war!

Most of all they stand for the political status quo.
Let them crumble.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 04:46 PM

> The collapse of Corporate Capitalism wont be the end of the world, it will be a new beginning for humanity.

Evidence?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 04:40 PM

I cant believe you actually posted that Greg.
The collapse of Corporate Capitalism wont be the end of the world, it will be a new beginning for humanity.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 11:37 AM

A GOP bent on killing us to save us
Maureen Dowd
Published 3:21 pm, Saturday, October 5, 2013

A place once called Washington

An ape sits where Abe sat.

The year is 2084, in the capital of the land formerly called North America.

The peeling columns of the Lincoln Memorial, and Abe's majestic head, elegant hands and big feet are partially submerged in sludge.

The white marble monuments are now covered in ash and overrun with weeds. Tea party zombies, thrilled with the dark destruction they have wreaked on the planet, continue to maraud around the Hill, eager to chomp on humanity some more.

Thomas Jefferson's utopia has devolved into Ted Cruz's dystopia.

In 2084, there's little sign of life in the godless and barren lost world. The insurance exchanges are open and the kinks are almost ironed out. But there is no one to sign up. Koch brother drones patrol the skies. A gaunt man and sickly boy, wrapped in blue tarps, trudge toward the blighted spot that was once the World War II monument, scene of the first shutdown skirmishes. They know they may not survive the winter.

"How did this happen, Papa?" the boy asks.

"It started very small with a petty fight over a six-week spending bill but quickly mushroomed out of control," the man says.

"Whose fault was it, Papa?" the boy presses.

The man tries to explain: "The Grand Old Party, the proud haven of patriots who believed in a strong national security and fiscal responsibility, was infected with a mutant form of ideology. It was named the Sarahcuda Strain after the earliest carrier. In the infected tea party politicians, brain function decreased and social de-evolution occurred. They began ignoring their basic survival instincts.

"It's hard to believe now, but they were fixated on stopping an effort to get health care to those who couldn't afford it. It eventually led them to destroy all the things they said they held most dear."

The boy is confused. "They killed America because they didn't care about keeping Americans alive?" he asks.

The man sits down. His voice grows faint. "Well, they didn't seem to understand themselves or what they were doing," he continues. "In the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, many of the feverish pols believed they were waging the right and moral fight even as GOP party elders like Jeb Bush, John McCain, Karl Rove and James Baker warned them that they were dragging the country toward catastrophe. The tea party leaders liked to refer to themselves as the Children of Reagan. But as Baker told Peggy Noonan, Reagan always said, 'I'd rather get 80 percent of what I want than go over the cliff with my flag flying.'"

The boy frowns. "But Papa, didn't the healthy Republicans realize the infected ones had lower brain functions?"

''Well, son, they knew there was something creepy about the ringleader, Ted Cruz," the man replies. "His face looked pinched, like a puzzle that had not been put together quite right. He was always launching into orations with a weird cadence and self-consciously throwing folksy phrases into his speeches, like 'Let me tell ya,' to make himself seem Texan, when he was really a Canadian."

The boy looks alarmed. "A Canadian destroyed the world, Papa?"

"Once the government shut down, a plague came, because they had closed the Centers for Disease Control," the man says. "Storms, floods and wildfires raged after FEMA was closed down and the National Guard got decimated.

"Once we went into default, the globe got sucked into the economic vortex. With a lot of the Defense Department, FBI, and intelligence community on forced leave, the country became vulnerable to terrorist attacks. Without the CIA to train the moderate Syrian rebels, Syria fell to al-Qaida.

"After the final American president, Barack Obama, canceled his trip to Asia, that part of the world decided we were weak. China moved quickly to fill the vacuum. Obama grew so disgusted, he spent his final years in office isolated in the White House residence. When he stopped returning the calls of Hasan Rouhani and Bibi Netanyahu, it was only a matter of time before the Middle East went up in flames.

"What is left of the world is being run by Julian Assange from what is left of the Ecuadorean Embassy in London and by some right-wing nut in a cabin in Idaho."

The boy begins to cry. "Papa, stop. You're making me sad. Are all the good guys gone?"

Looking through the gray skies toward the ashen Lincoln Memorial, where an ape sits in Abe's chair, the man replies sadly, "Yes, son."


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Oct 13 - 10:13 AM

Two documentary movies illustrate the problem with the US congress and government: "The Dirty Wars" by Jeremy Scahill and "Inequality For All" by Robert Reich. These are must sees!

We'll see if the ignorance of the American public prevails or if they wake up
and see that they've been wounded by both parties. (More by Banana Republicans, though).


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Jim Martin
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 10:58 PM

IMF's Christine Lagarde's understandably getting very twitchy - could we not be heading to a global meltdown if the Republicans continue their childish tantrums?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24384759


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 09:21 PM

> I do a lot of posting at the Washington Post and have been pushing this and have quite a few followers who are on board...

Can you give us a link, Bobert?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 08:02 PM

"Liberal" and "Conservative" are meaningless, yet highly demonized terms, that mean absolutely nothing...

Call it a movement or 3rd party is also meaningless...

What has to occur here is that enough people see that the House of Representatives is badly broken... The Senate is not much better...

When enough people agree that we need to fix that then, be it a movement or 3rd party, it will happen...

What we need to do now is just what I do... Put it out there... Frame it... Get people thinking... I do a lot of posting at the Washington Post and have been pushing this and have quite a few followers who are on board... That's the way this works... It is rare for any post to get 10 "likes"... I've had posts that accumulate 60 or 70 "likes"... That is a lot of folks on board spreading the word...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 07:34 PM

""Just so long as you don't call it the "liberal" Party Bob...we've got too many of them already :00""

Until you take the trouble to learn what a "liberal" is, that post is meaningless.

Come to think of it, when you have taken the trouble, it will be just as meaningless.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 03:39 PM

> Political scientists

Very political, not at all scientists.

Every side would marshal its own "experts."

Anyway, there will not be a second Constitutional convention in our lifetimes. There is neither the will nor the necessity (real or perceived).

The last time anyone tried it, they came up with the Confederate Constitution. Bad idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 03:18 PM

Lighter, since I am not a US citizen, it does not matter whether I like your (future) constitution. General experience tells me that patching one "loophole" after the other is not likely to succeed, since each and every such hole has its stakeholders who defend it with claws and teeth. A complete restart may be easier - it will produce losers as well, but only in one go.

Political scientists are needed for technical advice. The rest must be done in public discussions.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 12:42 PM

> a new constitution

Fortunately, all that's needed are Congressional rules to plug the procedural loopholes that are allowing this behavior.

If the nation's dingbats get working on a "new constitution," I guarantee you won't like what they come up with, regardless of your politics.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 11:14 AM

Bobert, as you know better than I, many "third parties" existed and failed miserably. If I were a citizen of the USA, I would call for a political movement, open to members of all parties but led by political scientists who work out a new constitution. If this is done well, and aided by strong pressure from the street, the old parties may find it wiser to join in, or preferably to dissolve in favour of new parties with clearer agendas.

Egyptians have not been entirely successful yet, but they are not likely to give up.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 11:12 AM

Just so long as you don't call it the "liberal" Party Bob...we've got too many of them already :00


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 10:38 AM

What Suzie said...

Yeah, we are in a major pickle that has nothing to do with Obamacare or debt limits and everything to do with an experiment being carried out by the radical right wing to see if a minority can impose its radical agenda on the majority...

Obama is correct in seeing it exactly that way... This attempted power grab by 40 or so rabid Tea Partiers can not be allowed or we will have set a very dangerous precedence for our nation and how we govern...

But this goes well beyond this ambush as we know are seeing just how important it is to fix the systemic problems with our elections in gerrymandering and unlimited secret $$$...

What I see on the horizon is a 3rd party... Call it the "Purple Party... Call it "Do Something Right Party"... Call it what you want... But this 3rd party will have just one plank in it's platform: Fix our democracy"...

BTW, there are right wingers who love to say "We don't have a democracy... We have a republic"...

Oh??? Well, what the heck is a "republic"??? Really... And how do corrupt elections work with having a "republic"???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 10:01 AM

At the moment, it's entirely in John Boehner's hands. If he calls a vote on a simple resolution to fund the government without any mention of Obamacare, it would pass in a heartbeat.

The the Fools could try again to repeal it by legislation. And almost certainly they would try because that's the kind if Fools they are.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 09:55 AM

I'm not saying that the whole damn thing is not corrupt from top to bottom. Just saying there's a little bit of wiggle room. We need to support this president. The more we support him, the better he'll do. He needs us. He can't do this alone.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 08:23 AM

A TP Congressman explained yesterday that the deadline to "raise the debt ceiling" (that is, to authorize the payment of what we already owe) is a fraud because "There's plenty of money in the Treasury."

Others disagree. But Congress still has to approve the payment.

The guy's theory seemed to be that when push comes to shove, Obama can use some Presidential-decree legerdemain to find money to avert disaster.

Of course, as soon as he did, he'd be "King Obama" to the TP people, seizing power from Congress, thwarting the Will of the People, undermining the Constitution, blah blah blah. Funny how that would work out.

Then they can monopolize Congress's time pushing for a new TP Constitution.

As explained yesterday, TP leaders don't believe in compromise *or* majority rule. As I heard one say a few months back, "Negotiation means getting the other side to see things your way and do what you want. You never compromise on principles."


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Oct 13 - 06:38 AM

""We are ruled by money, our value is weighed in money, without money we are worthless....and yet "intelligent" people still talk as if we have "equality" or anything resembling "equality"""

Equality is an aspiration Ake, and a good one which I would have expected left wingers to like.

I'd hate to believe in your miserable and defeatist attitude to life, especially the idea of destroying the whole structure of current economics to go back to some imagined "good old days" which never existed.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 10:47 PM

Oh yeah Bobie, have faith. The apocalypse is not now. That's all bullshit. The world can be better. People have to decide. The choice is there. Everything is a choice, from big to small.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 09:26 PM

TeaPubs have shot their wad...

Maybe Obama throws them a chip off a bone to give them some face-saving??? Who cares???

This one is in the books and everyone knows it... 40 wackos can't rule the country... It's really rather simple...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 09:18 PM

Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton - PM
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 06:28 PM

GUEST squeezer....I certainly think that a nationalised health service, free at the point of delivery is an excellent concept.
The point I am making is, we as a society do not deserve such a concept, and are unfit to safeguard it.

Look at this thread, how left and right dislike one another, how they are divided over irrelevancies instead of fighting the real enemy which is the whole political and economic system.
We are ruled by money, our value is weighed in money, without money we are worthless....and yet "intelligent" people still talk as if we have "equality" or anything resembling "equality"

Grinshka is correct, we should be uniting to form a new less money orientated society, the alternative being decades of stagnation and a couple of generations of kids with no purpose in life.
Until our living standards fall so low that the system judges that we are worth exploiting again!
At least the Tea Party folks seem to be in the mood to contemplate change, probably change that we on the left will not like....to begin with... but change we must, for the money and jobs have gone for good.

Global Capitalism is cyclical, we have been near the top of the cycle for a hundred years, but Global Capital moves on to new exploitations, we have become redundant, along with our kids and grand kids......and do you think any of the political party's really care? As long as they can divide and rule they are happy.....and our masters are happy, for the more deeply we are divided, the more easily they can squeeze the blood from our bodies, cut our living standards and render us an ineffective lumpen mass.

***************************************************************************************************

YUP!

But at this point, I would also like to say that I have renewed confidence in the president that he won't give in this time. He cannot, should not give in to these cold hearted bastards who don't care if people drop dead on the street.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 12:02 PM

Thank you for your advice, Betty. It's an organised itinary, but I can suggest it to the holiday organisers if it gets to that.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bettynh
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 11:43 AM

Don't cancel your tickets, Les, even if this nonsense should go on. It may be a bit of work, but look at our state parks systems. Every state has wonderful scenic splendors and historic sites set aside with no federal funding. Many times they're close to the big national parks.


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