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BS: US Government shutdown

Stu 04 Oct 13 - 11:24 AM
Lighter 04 Oct 13 - 11:21 AM
dick greenhaus 04 Oct 13 - 11:11 AM
Les from Hull 04 Oct 13 - 10:58 AM
Andrez 04 Oct 13 - 04:47 AM
Peter Kasin 03 Oct 13 - 06:03 PM
akenaton 03 Oct 13 - 01:23 PM
GUEST,Grishka 03 Oct 13 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,John from Kemsing 03 Oct 13 - 11:45 AM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 03 Oct 13 - 11:26 AM
KB in Iowa 03 Oct 13 - 10:28 AM
Lighter 03 Oct 13 - 10:25 AM
akenaton 03 Oct 13 - 09:59 AM
KB in Iowa 03 Oct 13 - 09:47 AM
akenaton 03 Oct 13 - 09:46 AM
Bill D 03 Oct 13 - 08:56 AM
Lighter 03 Oct 13 - 08:12 AM
GUEST,Grishka 03 Oct 13 - 08:10 AM
Richard Bridge 03 Oct 13 - 03:29 AM
Don Firth 02 Oct 13 - 10:35 PM
Bobert 02 Oct 13 - 08:17 PM
Greg F. 02 Oct 13 - 08:05 PM
Bill D 02 Oct 13 - 07:42 PM
Bobert 02 Oct 13 - 07:21 PM
Lighter 02 Oct 13 - 06:41 PM
akenaton 02 Oct 13 - 06:28 PM
Bill D 02 Oct 13 - 06:17 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 02 Oct 13 - 05:55 PM
Bobert 02 Oct 13 - 05:42 PM
Greg F. 02 Oct 13 - 05:14 PM
KB in Iowa 02 Oct 13 - 04:37 PM
GUEST,Grishka 02 Oct 13 - 02:20 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 02 Oct 13 - 12:40 PM
Lighter 02 Oct 13 - 12:21 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 02 Oct 13 - 12:14 PM
GUEST,Squeezer 02 Oct 13 - 11:54 AM
Greg F. 02 Oct 13 - 10:26 AM
Bobert 02 Oct 13 - 07:53 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 02 Oct 13 - 05:39 AM
Joe Offer 02 Oct 13 - 01:27 AM
dick greenhaus 01 Oct 13 - 11:33 PM
Jeri 01 Oct 13 - 10:55 PM
number 6 01 Oct 13 - 10:31 PM
Ebbie 01 Oct 13 - 10:25 PM
Bobert 01 Oct 13 - 08:51 PM
GUEST,Grishka 01 Oct 13 - 06:58 PM
Greg F. 01 Oct 13 - 06:45 PM
GUEST,Grishka 01 Oct 13 - 06:18 PM
GUEST,Squeezer 01 Oct 13 - 06:13 PM
GUEST,Grishka 01 Oct 13 - 06:10 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Stu
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 11:24 AM

So . . . some Americans are armed to the teeth with guns and stuff because they hate the idea of government intruding on their freedom and want to defend themselves against their elected representatives, but all I am hearing on the telly is everyone moaning as the government is having LESS to do with their lives. Has the fabled answer-to-everything free market stopped working over there or what?

Shurely shome mishtake?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 11:21 AM

A Tea Party leader/theorist not in government explained to CNN yesterday that the shutdown is perfectly justified because

1. no Republican, and certainly no Tea Party member, voted for the Affordable Care Act when it was passed by the House and Senate.

2. the President refuses to negotiate further with Tea Party Congressmen after agreeing to cut his proposed funding for the Act by $40 billion.

3. and though the President was re-elected by a majority of voters on an Obamacare platform despite years of Republican campagining to gut or repeal it, "he would never have been re-elected if Americans knew then what they know now about Obamacare."

No, I am not making this up.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 11:11 AM

There's a sort of twisted appeal to the idea of only funding things youi happen to agree with.Do you think the House would mind if I did that with my income tax? (I don't approve of subsidies to oil companies, and I don't care for much of our military spending. Not paying for these would really help reduce my tax bill)


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 10:58 AM

We've booked a holiday in a couple of weeks' time. The theme of the holiday - visiting US National Parks. So we are hoping that the non-Tea Party Repubs can soon bring the idiot wing of their party to understand what this action is likely to do to their hopes of ever having a Republican President in the foreseeable future. Just a view from over the pond.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Andrez
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 04:47 AM

Hmmmmm so since we find Mudcat remaining open for business can I assume that it has been declared to be an essential service and hence precluded from being shut down?

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 06:03 PM

National Park Service ranger here, hoping to get back to work soon!


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 01:23 PM

Jim Knowledge........humourist and philosopher! ;0)


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 12:37 PM

"Gaming the system" seems to be the name of the game, exploiting loopholes in the rules. But the rules can be changed, even "sacred" constitutions. If Egyptians can do it, why not US Americans?

Lighter's "BTW" (03 Oct 13 - 10:25 AM) conforms to what BBC tells us. Don't be too sure in advance who profits from which scenario. Many clever "brinkmen" went over the edge collectively, like the most stupid lemmings.

Belgium: not exactly a role model, but never had a real shutdown. Even Italy's ex-Cavaliere, with quite a record of ruining his country, could not afford to torpedo the present government.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 11:45 AM

I respect to AK`s comment on service abuse I do feel there are some questionable practises.
Some years I attended Pembury Hospital for serious spinal treatment. It was decided I needed a MRS scan. Bearing in mind the discomfort and pain was often chronic my consultant said I could go on a list that may take weeks but If I paid £500, which I did, I could be done in three days, outside normal hospital daily times, NHS equipment and NHS staff!!


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 11:26 AM

I `ad that Fisher T.Fish from Connecticut in my cab the other day. `e `ad a bad case of shingles and asked me to take `im to the nearest `ospital which `appened to be "St Thom`s", NHS.
I said, just to take `is mind off the pain, "Them "Good Old Boys" from down south `ave really got your lot discombobulated, aint they."
`e said, "Right on Jim. Obamacare, my ass, but I just don`t know how the nations gonna cope."
I said, "Not to worry, Fish. Belgium didn`t `ave a government for eighteen months and it didn`t make a blind bit of difference. Maybe there`s something we can all learn from that!!"


Whaddam I Like??


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 10:28 AM

What's so good about the Democrats?

Was this comment directed at me? I did not mention the Democrats at all, for good or ill.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 10:25 AM

Update on pay:

According to CNN, all members of the House have promised either to forgo their pay during the shutdown or else give it to charity.

If furloughed government employees don't eventually get paid.

A big if. However, four representatives- two Democrats and two Republicans - so far have no plans to inconvenience themselves even in theory.

However, 431 out of 435 isn't bad.

BTW, the cartoon capitalists supposedly "rubbing their hands" will be in for a surprise when the stock market tanks and the recession roars back, as it undoubtedly will if the same Fools on the Hill refuse in two weeks to raise the so-called "debt ceiling" (in reality the "authorization to pay our last-year's bills at home and abroad")


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 09:59 AM

What's so good about the Democrats?
They would have taken you into another unwinnable war, (just as Blair's Labour Party did in the UK).....if they had not been seriously outflanked by the "undemocratic" Russians.

Can you believe it! these bastards actually wanted a political solution!!
They must be mad!


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 09:47 AM

I fail to see that believing in absolute fairytale made-up nonsensical no-facts-need-apply ignorant anti-intellectual bullshit is something to be admiredc - or for that matter condoned.

I did not say that I either admired or condoned the tea party repubs.

I said that I have come to see the non-tea party repubs as the ones who could have prevented this but lacked the backbone to do it.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 09:46 AM

"game the system"

The system is a "game".

While the people bicker the corporate capitalists rub their hands


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 08:56 AM

Grishkas's comment deserves repeating with emphasis:


"A system that favours vile or stupid politicians to come to power is vile or stupid in itself. If you want to wait for good people to come to power accidentally, you may wait forever, and you would not deserve them anyway."

We are in this stupid, awkward situation because those 'extra' people who voted for Obama in 2008 didn't bother to vote for Democrats in 2010 - so we got our 10 year census and subsequent re-districting done by Republicans... who proceeded to do a super-Gerrymander and ensure that more Republicans are elected to the House, even if there were more votes for Democrats.
Now those Republicans are further restricting voting rights in an attempt to 'game the system' so that it is much MORE difficult to recapture the House and redress the injury.
If we get a Republican Senate and/or president before the situation is corrected, we can look forward to a totally stacked court system which will rubber stamp most of the egregious monotheism the Republicans are planning.

Scary enough for you?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 08:12 AM

Well, everybody has interests.

Tuchman's point is that organizations can be so collectively stupid that they forget their overriding interests in pursuit of glittering, usually short-term, advantages.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 08:10 AM

Greg, I understood you alright. My point was that all of us, even real "geniuses", lack expert knowledge in most areas of politics; this being so, we must rely on our best knowledge of human nature, more often than we consciously realize. If a leader, however right, talks like an arrogant and agenda-driven lawyer, and some intellectuals who do not appear agenda-driven criticize him strongly, people are bound to be suspicious. Other countries have developed techniques to reduce the perceived percentage of ideology in such fundamental decisions - it can work, to a certain extent.

There is no need to be ashamed of learning from other countries - these have learned a lot from the USA and from each other.

Ake, indeed I think that western society overestimates the significance of money (and other concepts such as personal power, beauty, "intelligence", fitness, etc.), but changing that is a distant goal. Shouting for a technical change of the government system, and working out one that is at least as good as that of other countries, should be done right now.

A system that favours vile or stupid politicians to come to power is vile or stupid in itself. If you want to wait for good people to come to power accidentally, you may wait forever, and you would not deserve them anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Oct 13 - 03:29 AM

With all due respect, the pursuit only of self interest is one of the viler things about those governments that are vile. Government should know right from wrong and heed the difference.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 10:35 PM

Bobert, your post just above at 02 Oct 13 - 07:21 PM (it depends on what you call it, "Obamacare" or "the Affordable Care Act") is another example of why a large percentage of the populace is in dire need of a good dope-slap!

========

Highly recommended:

The March of Folly, by historian and writer Barbara W. Tuchman, Random House Trade Paperbacks (February 12, 1985). Barbara Tuchman is the acclaimed author of The Guns of August, about World War I, and a number of other books.

In The March of Folly she shows how, throughout history, rulers, governments, and those in positions of power have become victims of their own willful folly, which Tuchman defines as "pursuing a policy contrary to their own self-interest." Time and time again, rulers and governments have acted shortsightedly and contrary to common sense. In each example, an alternative course of action was available. The government actions were endorsed by a group, not just an individual leader. But these actions were perceived by many others as counterproductive or downright disastrous in their own time. Yet, those in power blundered ahead.

Many individuals are guilty of folly (Tuchman also calls this wooden headedness), but when governments persist in folly, their actions can adversely affect thousands, even millions of lives.

Folly is a child of power. "The possession of power frequently causes failure to think."

Barbara Tuchman is always a good read.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 08:17 PM

Want the following:

Poison air???

Polluted water???

Poverty???

Privatization of everything down to gravity itself???

No public education???

Vote for the Tea Party... This is their ideal America...

Want to see their ideal country??? Rent "Mad Max After the Thunder Dome" That's exactly what they want... Or plan a vacation in Somalia...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 08:05 PM

but I often wonder if they actually 'believe' much of it

Yes, they do, Bill - in their colossal ignorance, they believe all of it.

Would be easier to deal with if they were just putting on a show for political advantage.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 07:42 PM

"The shutdown is a good thing. The less the government does, generally the better."

That has become just a mantra for folks who have not studied history or politics in any depth. They, in general, "don't like being regulated or told what to do" so they parrot that vague generalization about "less government"... until they want something they need government regulation or taxes for. You do NOT run a huge country with world-wide concerns without a system... and you do NOT make decisions based on what Libertarians shout from street corners!


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 07:21 PM

Funny segment last night on MSNBC where people on the street are asked two questions:

1. How do you like Obamacare???

2. How do you like the Affordable Care Act???

It was amazing how many people hated Obamacare but loved the Affordable Care Act???

Garbage in = garbage out...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 06:41 PM

Illinois voter comments on TV:

"The shutdown is a good thing. The less the government does, generally the better."

"Obama should give up on Obamacare and do something to help people who are struggling."


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 06:28 PM

GUEST squeezer....I certainly think that a nationalised health service, free at the point of delivery is an excellent concept.
The point I am making is, we as a society do not deserve such a concept, and are unfit to safeguard it.

Look at this thread, how left and right dislike one another, how they are divided over irrelevancies instead of fighting the real enemy which is the whole political and economic system.
We are ruled by money, our value is weighed in money, without money we are worthless....and yet "intelligent" people still talk as if we have "equality" or anything resembling "equality"

Grinshka is correct, we should be uniting to form a new less money orientated society, the alternative being decades of stagnation and a couple of generations of kids with no purpose in life.
Until our living standards fall so low that the system judges that we are worth exploiting again!
At least the Tea Party folks seem to be in the mood to contemplate change, probably change that we on the left will not like....to begin with... but change we must, for the money and jobs have gone for good.

Global Capitalism is cyclical, we have been near the top of the cycle for a hundred years, but Global Capital moves on to new exploitations, we have become redundant, along with our kids and grand kids......and do you think any of the political party's really care? As long as they can divide and rule they are happy.....and our masters are happy, for the more deeply we are divided, the more easily they can squeeze the blood from our bodies, cut our living standards and render us an ineffective lumpen mass.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 06:17 PM

"...heartless morons who believe their own bullshit..."

Well, the first part is accurate, but I often wonder if they actually 'believe' much of it. They have a certain agenda, and much of it requires either lying OR belief in weird ideas. I'm not sure some of them actually bother to sort out in their own heads what the difference is.

It is a matter of: "Here's what we want, and here's the standard talking points we sorta think we are supposed to deliver for the 'cause'."

You ever been to a store where you can't get the goods or service you want, and the answer is: "There's no reason for it...it's just our policy."?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 05:55 PM

I don' care how consistent or sincere the Tea Partiers are, they're heartless morons who believe their own bullshit and hide behind a religion that they don't interpret faithfully in the least.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 05:42 PM

Non-essential government employees:

EPA regulators who spend an inordinate amount of time chasing folks like the Koch brothers for poisoning our water and polluting our air...

Justice attorneys who spend an inordinate amount of time chasing the right wing KKKers from imposing voter suppression laws to prevent minorities from voting...

National Guard which has been called upon to assist in fighting fires and rescuing flood victims...

Etc. etc, etc...

The TeaPubs would have you believe that these people are non-essentail and in their eyes these people are...

BTW, the average net worth of a TeaPub congressman is $1.4M... In other words??? 1%ers...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 05:14 PM

Not INgenious, Grishka- plain "genius"- sarcasm alert. Point is that the folks opposed to whatever it is don't know what it is. Oh, ye generation of morons.

For the most part they seem to actually believe their rhetoric and are voting accordingly.

I fail to see that believing in absolute fairytale made-up nonsensical no-facts-need-apply ignorant anti-intellectual bullshit is something to be admiredc - or for that matter condoned.

Get 'em committed to a lunatic asylum where they belong.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 04:37 PM

All along I have been thinking that the tea party repubs are the ones to blame for this. I don't think so any more. For the most part they seem to actually believe their rhetoric and are voting accordingly. I have come to the conclusion that the real culprits are the non-tea party repubs who are afraid (with good reason) of losing their next primary. They are willing to put the country at risk in order to save their jobs.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 02:20 PM

Greg, such "polls" have been held in European countries as well, often by TV journalists, and the "funniest" results can be watched on YouTube.

Note that my main point was: if a large proportion of the elite agrees on a reform of the system, it may still fail; otherwise it is bound to fail.

"My ingenious voters" - perhaps you mean my statement that uninformed voters may still vote reasonably if they have the feeling that their leaders and intellectuals act consistently. This is actually more or less the case in many countries, so I need not hypothesize.

I am not surprised that the label "Obamacare" is unpopular: Obama's often admired rhetorics are still typical of a lawyer, not inspiring too much long-term confidence.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 12:40 PM

Happy Birthday Yosemite National Park!

I wonder if the above means we camp out at Yosemite, start a campfire and sings songs about social justice without catching some teargas or a bullet. My guess is no.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 12:21 PM

Get ready to puke.

A tour group of WWII veterans showed up at the National World War II Memorial yesterday for a planned visit and found the large open space closed by the shutdown.

Somebody shouted "We're goin' in!" and the wheelchairs rolled.

Soon Tea Party Goddess Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann appeared with her crew. She threw her arms around one guy from World War II and said, "We want Americans to know that we're here to protect the lives and health care of these wonderful gentlemen!"

Then she gave him a big kiss.

(Another WWII group crashed the gates today. The GIs met with no National Park Services resistance on either occasion.)


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 12:14 PM

Did you hear that the stock market went up? They are manipulating it. Those rich white guys are trying to create the impression that shutting down government is good for the economy. Good for whom? It's scary what they are doing. They are evil.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Squeezer
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 11:54 AM

Where is that Guest From Sanity when he's needed? Gone fishing obviously, as usually he/she is straight in with an illuminating opinion on a thread like this. He is the only one who can clearly and logically explain how the Tea Baggers are saving the Free World. If anyone has his phone number, can they please ring him up and ask him to share his thoughts with us.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 10:26 AM

Here's your genius voters, Grishka, and your racist idiots, Bobert.

"In most polls, a majority of Americans say they oppose "Obamacare." But a number of recent polls suggest that many of those same people are more supportive of the Affordable Care Act . There's just one problem: They're the same thing.

A recent CNBC poll found 46 percent of respondents said they are opposed to Obamacare. But only 37 percent of the same people taking part in the poll say they oppose the Affordable Care Act.

So, late-night host Jimmy Kimmel decided to take the seeming contradiction to the next level by filming a video in which he asked people to share their thoughts on Obamacare vs. Affordable Care.

"I just think there's a lot of holes in it and that it needs to be revamped. I just think it hasn't been thought out," one person says when asked why she doesn't like Obamacare. When asked about the Affordable Care Act, she responds, "It's better but I'm not happy with that, either."

"Just the name says it all," adds another man, who said he'd sign up for the Affordable Care Act but not Obamacare.

Another point made with one of the interviewees reflects the findings of a recent NPR report, which shows that many individuals who say they are opposed to Obamacare actually support many of the law's provisions when they are explained individually and without the baggage of being attached to President Obama."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/all-in-a-name--jimmy-kimmel-quizzes-americans-on-%E2%80%98obamacare%E2%80%99-vs--%E2%80%9Caffordable-care-act%E2%80%99-214544505.html


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 07:53 AM

Harry Reid is a Senator, not a Representative, Dick...

There are no filibusters in the House... What there are are folks who are there because computers can draw district lines with the precision of a surgeon to insure the results before the first vote is cast...

But on the larger question of filibusters, I agree... Stupid rule...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 05:39 AM

""I'd say this is a result of the American political system breaking down ... it just doesn't work anymore.""

Not too surprising in a country whose leaders believe that a democratic majority is 60% Bill.

Did any of them progress beyond primary school year two?
_________________________________________________________

""Also, I heard of people who were barred from entering the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. That's usually an open area anyone can enter. Seems strange to go to the effort to block it off.""

Indeed it does Joe, and how strange for workmen to agree to establish the blockage, before being laid off without pay.

I don't know about you, but I strongly believe that any British workman in those circumstances would have told 'em where to shove it..........sideways!

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Oct 13 - 01:27 AM

I tried to access the National Park Service Website this evening, but it has been shut down. I gotta say, maybe that's carrying this shutdown a bit too far.

Also, I heard of people who were barred from entering the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. That's usually an open area anyone can enter. Seems strange to go to the effort to block it off.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Oct 13 - 11:33 PM

One might legitimately attach some of the blame to Harry Reid---who could have put an end to this filibuster nonsense on the day this Congress convened.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Oct 13 - 10:55 PM

The last time they did this, it came back to bite them on the butt. I hope it bites harder this time, but it will be a while before then next Congress happens.

After visiting a few other websites and hearing news programs, it seems the Republicans are trying to blame this on Democrats (for not caving). We need a huge backlash against 'stupid'.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: number 6
Date: 01 Oct 13 - 10:31 PM

I'd say this is a result of the American political system breaking down ... it just doesn't work anymore.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Oct 13 - 10:25 PM

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Today I spent several hours watching live House speeches, the ultimate votes, the commentary and viewer comments.

I wouldn't count Cruz out just yet- although I hope he took a heavy blow today with the failure of the vote for the temporary stopgap for veterans, national parks and Washington, DC. They said that the rift within the GOP boiled down to separate plans favored by Mitch McConnell and Ted Cruz, and Cruz's plan won. And of course, lost.

I don't care for McConnell but I like Cruz even less.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Oct 13 - 08:51 PM

Looks as if the TeaPubs have shot their wad early... They were too anxious to fuck with Obama and took the cheap bait... Now that they have fucked with Obama then the more important issue will be the debt ceiling, which BTW, would be more harmful to the US economy than what the TeaPubs have gone for...

So, right on the heels of this shutdown the TeaPubs have used their "Shut Down" card early and have lost this one so bad that it is laughable...

Bye to the TeaPubs... They have all but signed their own death certificates... They have insured that the Dems will hold the Senate in '14, will win back more seats in the House and the White House is now completely out of reach for the Republicans in '16...

Stupid people do stupid things...

Thank you, TeaPubs, for being stupid people...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 01 Oct 13 - 06:58 PM

Give a good example. Unite for a feasible new constitution, found a new political movement for it, organize demonstrations etc. If it is unsuccessful in the first try, at least you can say you tried.

What is really needed is media power, traditionally TV companies that reach the "brain dead". This may be a problem if all such companies are bought by the establishment. The Internet "blogosphere" is an excellent second choice, assuming that the NSA would not want to be caught censoring blatantly.

First of all, those whose brain is alive must use it and get together.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Oct 13 - 06:45 PM

You may be underestimating "stupidity" in other countries.

Not at all- I have a great respect for the awesome power of stupidity world-wide.

Nor am I talking about "sophisticated political thinking" - most of the RepubliClown supporters are incapable of rational thought, period.

US Americans who do have a good education, intelligence, and goodwill should do their best to bring about the change

Agreed - but when dealing with the uneducable brain dead, how do you suggest one should proceed?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 01 Oct 13 - 06:18 PM

As for health care, all existing systems have their drawbacks. Still, a nation must be able to make a decision.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Squeezer
Date: 01 Oct 13 - 06:13 PM

At the risk of some thread drift, I have to ask akenaton just how the NHS is being abused by doctors and consultants. All the hospital doctors I knew during my 28-odd years in hospital work were highly dedicated and worked very long and often stressful hours.

The NHS provides free and (almost) all-inclusive health care at the point of delivery for comparatively cheap instalment payments (which don't even have to be continuous). And it is expected to do much more nowadays than it did in the past. So yes, it does cost the government a lot to run. But despite what Murdoch and Cameron would have us believe, I think front-line care is highly cost-effective.

If (or perhaps I should say when) we change to a US-style health so-called system you will find that the cost of insurance policies, which in most cases will provide only partial cover, will be absolutely crippling for all but the top 5% of earners. A service which relies heavily on high levels of government expenditure is not necessarily inefficient. Conversely (and again with reference to the US) a commercial service which is funded by high levels of private expenditure is not necessarily efficient.

I hope that your post is not trying to suggest that the US might be better off not to have a national health care system.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Government shutdown
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 01 Oct 13 - 06:10 PM

Greg, as I wrote, education can only be improved in the longer run. Until then, those many US Americans who do have a good education, intelligence, and goodwill should do their best to bring about the change, and publicize their efforts widely. I have not heard or read about such a powerful outcry yet. Instead, I keep reading complains that politicians are clowns etc.

You may be underestimating "stupidity" in other countries. Many people who are not able to sophisticated political thinking still have the cleverness to watch the elites of their countries closely. Only if the intellectuals fail miserably, populists get their chance.


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