Good hobby; poor occupation

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 19 Oct 13 - 06:43 AM

GS Scheik - I like numbers. When I was at school I would read the words and miss out numbers. As an adult I've learned to do the reverse - start with the numbers and see the words as further explanations of them ( or not ). It takes a lot less time and is usually more informative.
The survey was interesting as it rang a bell. I've met quite a few music teachers who see teaching as second best. Would you believe that accountants are more content than lion tamers?
My own feelings are that if you are in the second rank of musicians ( not the sort who can command £1000s per performance ) and 95% of musicians and nearly all folk musicians are - then life is hard. An uncertain income, a lot of team work and organising, understading PA, and travelling, for not a lot of financial reward. There are of course the rewards - the variety, the joy of playing with others, the acclaim, and the satisfaction of a job well done. I think it takes quite a special type of person to do this and be content with it.
FloraG.

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 02:56 PM

I have found it to be a worthwhile occupation, to quote edith piaf Non, je ne regrette rien", and flora g, i take non notice of surveys.

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: cooperman
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 02:19 PM

That was me...cookieless

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 01:30 PM

Great posts Stringsinger and guest Rachel, couldn't agree more

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 10:50 AM

Mike - I dont mind saying that 'the pension' has covered my basics - heat , light , mortgage and council tax and the gigs have enabled me to do several US trips at my own expense to the getaway and such

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: Dickmac
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 10:09 AM

In my earlier post I should have made it clear that I have the greatest respect for those artists who can juggle the the demands of a full time job and a part time musician. I just hope that they get enough enjoyment out of it to compensate for the long hours they put in.

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: GUEST,Rachel
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 08:43 AM

I'm really lucky to have the best of both worlds. I work as a counsellor/psychtherapist predominantly in schools and refuge settings, so have the benefit of being in a 'day job' with lots of flexibility. I'm also part of a Folk band that's getting increasingly more gigs/ festival opportunities. Whilst the paid gigs bring in a revenue, once split between five people and petrol expenses, I can't see how I could ever carve a living from just being in the band which I absolutely love.
Another member of our band is a professional musician, with lots of other projects ( he's a composer/ violinist/viola player/ percussionist and vocal tutor. He's the most talented musician I have ever met and yet he really struggles to bring in a decent livable wage through his music alone ( which he insists on doing).
I personally, wouldn't want the main reason for playing music to be for paying the bills as I feel I would lose the excitement and joy in playing at paid gigs ( where people actually want to pay to hear us) as well as all the lovely singarounds and folk clubs that I attend.
I love what I do, I love playing with people and being part of a lovely folk community where I am making so many friends.
As I said, I am lucky to have the best of both worlds.
On a final note, the music acts as a perfect balance for the type of work that I do and is the best therapy in the world for me!

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: GUEST,Enfield/Swindon Pete
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 05:29 AM

Interesting thread this.   I'm a lecturer in an FE college full-time. I undertook a Phd in my spare time some 20 years or so ago which meant my job and academic interests overlapped and for all intents and purposes took over my life. The Phd became my hobby which was more or less an extension of my day job. Without going into too much detail - it was not a good thing or time in my life - screwed me over! I love playing and participating in music, going to talks, lectures, researching., folk clubs, folk festivals etc, but it is strictly an interest - a hobby and long may it stay that way. I feel that work and personal interests are best kept seperate. Just wanted to share.

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 06:26 PM

Frank, I feel the same way. Every time I take a straight job it reminds me why I shoudn't.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 04:29 PM

I found that the only job I could ever hold was that of being a musician and a music teacher.
I was fired from everything else. Actually I never wanted to do anything else. I don't regret that I never made much money. My wife and I have learned to live on less. Music, for me is more than an occupation. It's something I do every day. My wife and I sing together and play instruments so we share the joy. I am not important or a musical "star" but I have felt fulfillment and have found tremendous enjoyment.

I think being a musician is a great occupation but it is more than just an occupation.
The joy is also being able to learn more, study more, grow more.

It's fine to do music as a hobby or a sideline. There are excellent musicians who do this.
it's also fine to be an amateur.

What's really important is that you express yourself in a way that you feel you are contributing something important to society and humankind.

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: GUEST,guest (Tracy)
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 02:21 PM

(woops - looks like my previous words of wisdom didn't make it on my first try.........)
But looking back over 50 years of so I can say making music to make money is just like trying to work around the weather - sometimes you get it right and other times you get wet........ What I've found is it's like gardening or farming: look out the window and if the weather's not right then stay by the warm fire - if the gigs are not there go back to some kind of work until you find some fertile ground for your art. Good luck and forget perfection.

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 08:14 AM

Interesting discussion.

In our family we've kind of made it work by my wife doing music full time (though this includes regular work a number of local schools - who understand that gigs come first and are comfortable that she won't be there every week) and me continuing to earn a comfortable corporate income - and accompanying her when I can.

She is now doing 40-60 paid gigs a year - mainly folk clubs and festivals all over the UK. Her income pretty much pays for our social life and holidays (we have 2 early teenage kids so these things aren't cheap!).

I have to say, I really love this set up - it's a thrill to see my other half do well with my financial support (she's the one with the talent anyway) AND I get to play on some fairly big stages off the back of her hard gigging work.

The kids do get a bit sick of getting dragged to festivals most weekends in the summer though!

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: GUEST,Guest (Tracy)
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 01:53 PM

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 08:27 AM

Perfect example of the syndrome I described, Leadfingers. Do not mean to pry into your private business, but can't help wondering whether this change into what you will obviously have regarded as an improvement in your lifestyle, and hence productive of enhanced personal happiness, meant a very considerable financial sacrifice. But obviously, please don't answer if you had rather not.

~M~

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 08:16 AM

Susan and I both had jobs that you could walk away from at the end of the day and not worry about till you came back. She was a legal secretary and I was a janitor (in the fine tradition of blues pianist Jimmy Walker). Getting time off was not a real problem with us (the bookings happening months in advance). I do understand the exhaustion aspect as stated above. It seemed we only got to really relax when we were travelling to do gigs. Commutes and house responsibilities still had to be dealt with.

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 07:16 AM

I gave up the day job (Early Retirement deal) as I was having problems with my manager getting time off for distance gigs . At least the company Pension would cover the basics, and I have no dependants

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 03:55 AM

Oh for a trust fund!
I think you are right. A few jobs give flexibility. One of our scouts used to have 12 weeks off work ( unpaid ) each year to do Camp America. Not so many jobs ( or bosses) can do this.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: Mo the caller
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 04:54 AM

I think the point of trying to build up a self employed income while holding down a 'day job' is hard whatever the self-employment.

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 04:26 AM

I think it is even harder for teachers now in the UK to have any other paid job. Despite the health and safety ' work life balance' concept I know a lot of teachers who put in a lot of hours.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 02:13 PM

I have seen a lot of the plight of those who tried to keep a day job, but also make a success of paid gigging as a sort of hobby; but got too successful at that, so that they would be off on gigs 3 or 4 nights a week, often at a distance, getting home late but still having to be up for work next morning. So they would be often caught in the trap of not making quite enough from the gigs to equal the earnings they would be sacrificing if they went full-time, to maintain the lifestyle they had built up for their families; but unable, thru tiredness, to bring the effort & commitment required of them to discharge their daytime duties properly, in a manner which would not let down or disappoint their colleagues, or others dependent [pupils, e.g. -- they were often teachers]. At some point a decision had to be made.

~M~

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: Dickmac
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 02:01 PM

Fully agree with Marje's posting and particularly liked the first sentence of the last paragraph.
My wife and I (both retired) and a friend ( still working) are a trio playing local clubs and charity events. As far as we are concerned we do this for fun but don't refuse payment when offered. We get a fair bit of pleasure by being asked back - I hope because of of performance and not our fee level.

The main thing is we get a lot of fun playing our music. Long may we be fit to continue.

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 09:30 AM

I spent some time playing music for an income - many years ago - and it was sometimes fun and sometimes hard work and sometimes boring and sometimes reasonably paid and sometimes poorly paid. In other words, a job like any other. I stopped doing it for a living for several reasons: a more comfortable occupation, better social hours, a young family, a guaranteed regular income (mortgage), etc.

So it became a hobby. But wasn't a poor occupation while it lasted - just different.

Having worked on the roads and in factories in my time, music making was infinitely preferable to those occupations. My ancestors were agricultural labourers, miners, tailors, cobblers, etc. If I'd lived in those times, I might have tried my hand at being a musician in preference to those trades. Who knows...

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 08:23 AM

My spouse and I both worked day jobs to support our music habit. Now we are retired (in my case a few years early) and can concentrate on playing where we can be listened to. It is nice to have a base income coming in. We got far afield to play in our day job era and now it's easier to get things prepared when we go.

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: melodeonboy
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 07:48 AM

Good post, BassNick!

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: GUEST,BassNick
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 06:18 AM

As someone who worked for 20 years as a professional musician (and made a decent living at it), I can confess that most of it was spent playing other people's music and some that I didn't even like. I came to a conclusion; that creatively it was better to have a music career that was actually a hobby so that it wasn't corrupted by having my music linked to earning a living. Since getting a 'normal' job and using my free time to play exactly what I want to play has been musically liberating. I know of many music teachers who hardly ever play music because they are so fed up at the end of the day.

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 01:26 AM

To say to be a luthier you need a rich girlfriend? Still I marvel at their skill. The folk revival has existed since the early 60s, where the role of professional folk musician began. i hope it is as healhty as ever, although there are fewer and fewer pubs to perform in! I admire the dedication of the solo musician!

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: Gurney
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 04:32 PM

A couple of friends say that being a luthier is much like that.

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 11:59 AM

If you want a million pounds , be a folk singer and start with at least TWO million pounds !

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 11:11 AM

Exactly. Music is endlessly satisfying--particularly if you appreciate, and possibly participate in, many different types. Best, I think, is making good music as part of a group.

And it's also good not have your bread and butter dependent on it.    So you can just enjoy it yourself and spread the enjoyment.

That seems to be the best of both worlds.

Subject: RE: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: Marje
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 10:19 AM

I've noticed, now that we have four grandchildren, that adults tend to say things like, "Oh, perhaps she'll be an actress!" or "He could turn out to be a footballer" (or a singer/musician/athlete etc), meaning as a career.

I'm always reminding them that for every professional musician/footballer/actor, etc, there are hundreds of people who enjoy these activities, take part in them regularly and give pleasure and entertainment to others throughout their lives, without making any money out of them. These pursuits should be encouraged, not so much as career possibilities, but as skills and interests that can enhance the lives of those who learn to do them well.

A few will go on to a profession in their chosen skill, while others will have the means to earn the odd bit of pin money to supplement their day jobs, but most will be happy just to have a fulfilling hobby. The time spent on these things is not wasted, and doesn't mean that the person is not "a musician" or whatever.

I'd never have had what it takes to be a musician or singer in a professional sense, but I've got a huge amount out of music for the last 50 years and more, and like to think I've given enjoyment to others sometimes. In folk music, there is very little big money to be made even at the top, but we are lucky in having a such broad and enthusiastic amateur folk scene in which we can all participate if we want to.

I suppose having high aspirations is not all bad, but as well as having some very talented amateurs who deserve to be better known, the folk world also includes plenty of people who have no idea of their own limitations. Some may feel disappointed when they find they can't make folk music their career. Perhaps, for most of us, it's better to regard any money-making opportunities as bonus, and hold on to the day job, rather than spend your life being discontented and disillusioned. I just feel privileged to be able to play and sing to a level that allows me to share music-making with others and play an active part in the local music scene.

Marje

Subject: Good hobby; poor occupation
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 08:37 AM

A recent survey suggested that those who wished a career in the performing arts were the least contented adults. I think those who wish a career in folk music have additional problems.
Any comments.
FloraG.