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Sidmouth campsite to move?

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Steve in Sidmouth 31 Oct 13 - 06:40 AM
bubblyrat 31 Oct 13 - 05:18 AM
steve_harris 30 Oct 13 - 09:45 PM
Steve in Sidmouth 30 Oct 13 - 08:57 PM
steve_harris 30 Oct 13 - 06:52 PM
GUEST,Howard Jones 30 Oct 13 - 03:25 PM
Steve in Sidmouth 30 Oct 13 - 12:28 PM
Steve in Sidmouth 30 Oct 13 - 12:17 PM
steve_harris 30 Oct 13 - 11:37 AM
cooperman 30 Oct 13 - 08:17 AM
Dave Earl 30 Oct 13 - 07:32 AM
Steve in Sidmouth 30 Oct 13 - 06:06 AM
GUEST 30 Oct 13 - 04:41 AM
GUEST,Mr Positive 29 Oct 13 - 12:52 PM
GUEST 29 Oct 13 - 12:29 PM
Mr Red 29 Oct 13 - 12:16 PM
Mr Red 29 Oct 13 - 12:03 PM
Susan B 29 Oct 13 - 11:40 AM
Susan B 29 Oct 13 - 11:35 AM
Howard Jones 29 Oct 13 - 09:49 AM
Will Fly 29 Oct 13 - 04:56 AM
Will Fly 29 Oct 13 - 04:55 AM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 29 Oct 13 - 04:47 AM
GUEST 28 Oct 13 - 08:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 06:40 AM

As I understand it the new complex will comprise the 13 acres PLUS the field owned by the town council that is to be the site of the new 'hub' maybe modelled on the Ham - a central dance/music tent with other areas for sitting out, drinking, sunbathing(?). That field alone is over 3 acres - large enough to accommodate far more than just the 'hub'. Apparently it used to be quite a mess and the scouts cleared it up - it wouldn't be politic to have it churned up by lots of vehicles so the car parking has to be elsewhere?

Careful what you say about donkeys. The charity has an income of £32 million per year. One person is apparently employed full time just to deal with the cheques.....It does some good, especially overseas.

Their fields are all too far away from Sidmouth.

The official website has a small announcement on the latest news page - all about a full and open consultation but with no plans, maps or details. latest news page


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 05:18 AM

Get rid of all the noisy donkeys that kept us awake every night last year with their honking and braying ,and turn the Donkey Sanctuary site into a new festival amenity !!


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: steve_harris
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 09:45 PM

Thanks, Steve

I think it is OK on my page folk128? I gave a total of 21 acres for fields 1 and 2.

Yes, folk28 looks about right and your figures reasonable. Given the 13 acres available for everything at the new site, capacity looks to be a challenge.

This year, the Bulverton campsite wasn't completely full & tent density nowhere near Towersey levels. However, I think some of the extra fields you identify near the proposed new site would be needed. I hope they are available so that what may be an attractive change is feasible for all who want to go to Sidmouth.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 08:57 PM

Here are the calculations I did some years ago for the Bulverton site -

Bulverton camping land areas

I may have drawn the Bulverton site incorrectly on folk213 - I think it is OK on my page folk128? I gave a total of 21 acres for fields 1 and 2.

I've been trying to download material and diagrams from the EDDC website - they tell me site plans are there but the website is so convoluted and goes around in so many circles (including links to pages you are already on!) I have given up for the moment.

Anyone who wants a challenge can try and find the plans deposited for the Salcombe Hill site!

Start here: http://www.eastdevon.gov.uk/app_list_23_10_13.pdf

You need to find the Applications Register. There is also (apparently) an Applications Received page but no plans I can find.

Anyone wishing to object would give up before they even found the appropriate page on the EDDC website - maybe that is the idea?

The application is titled Salcombe Hill Recreation Field and it's application number is 035154.

Several people have contacted me re: mobility access issues - it is obviously a topic of concern.

One other point that has been raised is that whereas the Bulverton site is not in an area where many people visit (except for the footpath down at the bottom of field 1), the Salcombe Hill site is in the middle of an area used by locals and tourists for scenic and dog walks and with casual car parking along the side of the road. It has been suggested there could be friction if the usual car parking spaces etc are taken over by folkies or made unavailable via cones. I'm not sure it is much of an issue.

East Devon used to do a splendid job of early morning beach clearance but there seem to have been cutbacks. In 2103 there was a lot of residual mess, broken glass, etc. It has been suggested to me that this had better not happen in Salcombe Hill woods!


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: steve_harris
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 06:52 PM

Approximate areas of new and old sites are given on my previous link
I can find the new site area as 13 acres thanks, Steve but the figure for Bulverton campsite eludes me. Do feel free to quote it.

Incidentally, your picture at http://www.seered.co.uk/folk213.htm seems to show the Bulverton site incorrectly. The area you have labelled 2 is about 40% too big. You take it up to Greenway Lane whereas in reality, if only goes up to field boundary about 300m further South East.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 03:25 PM

"Once you have got there" is the issue. Also, will this become the base for more events, and will this lead to a move out of the town?


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 12:28 PM

Approximate areas of new and old sites are given on my previous link.

If you include that some facilities may be on the field with the dance tent, the actual area for camping may be the same or larger than at Bulverton - and it promises to be much more user friendly (once you have got there).

There are a couple of very large and quite tempting fields immediately to the north east of the proposed new site: these might be a car park or overflow camping. They are flat too. And of course there are the alternative commercial sites nearby.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 12:17 PM

Dave Earl makes some good points concerning the benefits of management liaison with users of festival facilities. For many years the easily addressed shortcomings of the Blackmore Gardens marquee have remained substantially unaddressed. I have yet to write up this year's experiences.... The floor was entirely different - very springy but awfully sticky. If they had found a competent dancer and asked about the proposed change we might have got something more suitable. Towersey can do it, so why can't Sidmouth?

The Bulverton site and the roads leading to it do indeed have some gentle slopes but they are pussycats compared to Salcombe Hill.

All about slopes, angles and gradients, and towing caravans up them!


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: steve_harris
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 11:37 AM

Susan B touched on an important point - area. The area available for camping does look to be less than the current Bulverton camp site.

The current site appears to have spare capacity but if the festival grows or tent/car size grows this new site might not be big enough.

There might be a need for an "overflow" site. If so it should be offered as a "quiet" site. Simple overflow sites are unpopular as they tend to split up people who want to camp near each other. The availability of a "quiet" site could be an answer to some of the usual camp disagreements.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: cooperman
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 08:17 AM

I never stayed there but wasn't there quite a slope on the old site?
I remember a few years ago talking to someone who said he had rolled out of his tent in the night and woken up next morning looking at the sky (he'd had a few pints though!)


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: Dave Earl
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 07:32 AM

I hope that the consultations mentioned above will include full consideration of the needs people with mobility problems.

Idealy I would like to see a festival officer appointed to oversee such aspects and who REALLY understands what people with such challenges require.

In recent years I have felt that although the festival team meant to do the right thing(s)there were some shortcomings that could have been avoided if matters had been discussed with a person who would need to use the facilities and access.

I know that there will always be technical compromises to be made but at least let them be discussed with a "user reprensentative" before installing whatever it might be.

Do you think that with a new site it may be possible to get things nearer to an optimum?

Dave


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 06:06 AM

The link to the licensing applications for both Bulverton and Salcombe Hall sites are here: deadline for representations is 11 November. Discussion is permitted.

http://www.eastdevon.gov.uk/app_list_23_10_13.pdf

The text quality within the link is appalling (at least on my screen) and you'll need to scroll down the list which contains many applications unconnected with the festival.

Given the number of things that have needed changing in past years including inadequacies that could so easily have been remedied sooner had people with relevant competences been asked, (or listened to), there is clearly merit in as much discussion as any competent person or persons wish to undertake.

It is rubbish to suggest that open discussion could 'affect the outcome' - except maybe in a positive way by instigating improvements at an earlier stage.

Having the details splashed across the front page of the Sidmouth Herald was intended surely to ensure a complete absence of both local and folkie debate.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 04:41 AM

I'm sure here's been a huge amount of preparation & planning for this application, and some of the comments in the thread so far highlight challenges which were identified at the outset...

These include-

"people with significant mobility disabilities"

"Much easier (flat but narrow) access is available via Thorn Park from the northeast which could be made one-way." (concerning arrival & departure of caravans)

"Everything depends on reliable and frequent transport"

=====
While the application is still under consideration, I can understand why there is a reluctance on the part of organisers to jump the gun and go public - it might even affect the outcome.

My fingers are crossed.

John


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: GUEST,Mr Positive
Date: 29 Oct 13 - 12:52 PM

Access for dozens of caravans up the steep hill would be silly verging on absurd.

One breakdown (burnt clutch or whatever) and there would be a queue and chaos - no room for wide vehicles to pass unless both squeeze into the sides.

Much easier (flat but narrow) access is available via Thorn Park from the northeast which could be made one-way.

Access to the fields themselves (once you reach them) would be no problem at all. Walking from town is only just over a mile, but it is STEEP, UNLIT, NARROW and potentially far more dangerous at night than walking to the Bulverton site.

READ THE SUMMARY ALREADY PROVIDED.

Everything depends on reliable and frequent transport ??


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 13 - 12:29 PM

Does anyone know what access is like to the field for those of us who tow caravans? I was concerned that lane is steep and narrow.
How do we make comments directly to organisers


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Oct 13 - 12:16 PM

Streetmap of the area looks close enough to walk for many folkies. But steep enough to cause pain for old fogies.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Oct 13 - 12:03 PM

For the record, SeaRed is in no way connected to any one of a similar name.

negative? I think that is understating somewhat.

if the intended site is in the direction of the Salcombe Golf Club (the toy golf fields opposite ie) then a bus already comes that way. I have walked from the Golf Club and it is a good 3/4 hour, so hopefully this campsite is nearer than that. The Salcombe bus has to traverse one road about its own width.

We have been on the Rugby Club for the last few years and that is convenient for town venues. Buses this year to the Weston Hall were somewhat erratic, especially given a lot of the dancers were older than average. Bus reliability and driver familiarity were cited as causes.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: Susan B
Date: 29 Oct 13 - 11:40 AM

An article on SeeRed (who does tend to be negative about things generally) - here http://seered.co.uk/folk213.htm


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: Susan B
Date: 29 Oct 13 - 11:35 AM

My understanding from the article is that Bulverton would close and all would be relocated to the new site (including day parking?). It has some advantages - the campsite and event venue would be more co-located and flatter, which is really needed for the increasing number of caravans. And it should be much better for noise - it won't disturb locals as much (until they build nearby and start complaining again...).

But ... I'm concerned about the access to and from the town. I've often ended up walking between town and the Bulverton site due to being up late, or the buses having problems. This proposed site is about three times the height above sea level. It is in the fields next to one used in the late 70s and I remember (when a lot younger and fitter) having trouble getting up and down that hill then. The OS map marks it as steeper than 1 in 5. I'll probably be able to walk up it, but down will be impossible (arthritic knees are like that!).

My other access concern is for people with significant mobility disabilities. In recent years my daughter has just trundled up and down the hill to and from Bulverton as the buses were not accessible. The steep hill to the proposed site will make it inadvisable to take your electric wheelchair or scooter up or down it, as they would overheat. Unless the "dedicated transport" is accessible the people in town won't be able to go to the venues, and disabled campers won't be able to get into town.

I'm also surprised that they say that it is a larger site. Looking on the OS maps the actual area is smaller. But maybe there is more usable area available?

These things may have been thought of and solutions found, but it would be nice if there was a discussion forum on the Folk Week website and more information! Annoying that they didn't put information there at the same time as telling the Herald.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 29 Oct 13 - 09:49 AM

It seems to be up a long, fairly steep and narrow lane. I'd like to know more about what's intended, and in particular what they're proposing to provide by way of 'dedicated transport'. My impression is that this will be much more difficult to access on foot or by bike, and if the transport is too crowded, too expensive, too infrequent or doesn't run at the times people want they will resort to their cars.

Will the LNEs at the Bulverton move here? If so, how will people who are not camping get to and from there?

What they are proposing might be wonderful, but at the moment it's easier to see the potential problems. There's no mention of it on the Folk Week's website. They need to tell festival-goers what's proposed, why it will be good, and bring them onside.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Oct 13 - 04:56 AM

whoops - interesting page on the area here.


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Oct 13 - 04:55 AM

Interesting page on the area


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Subject: RE: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 29 Oct 13 - 04:47 AM

Here is the article in the Sidmouth Herald (apologies if the blue clicky thing doesn't work...)

Sidmouth Herald FolkWeek story


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Subject: Sidmouth campsite to move?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Oct 13 - 08:39 PM

Front page story in Sidmouth Herald last week about a possible new site for camping and dance to replace the Bulverton.

Calling time at the Bulverton?


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