Scottish republican socialist songs

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,donald
Date: 01 Nov 13 - 10:13 AM

Hi Sandy. Mine's a single malt.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,Musket gettin
Date: 01 Nov 13 - 07:26 AM

You'd have to knock the s off your name for us to be acquainted.

Mind you. ... my Dad did have a bike.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,Sandy Mathers
Date: 01 Nov 13 - 07:16 AM

I may be in the rare position of actually being acquainted with both Jack Campin and Donald Anderson.

Fancy a pint lads...?

As for the "Musket" guy...

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 13 - 05:25 AM

Oxy Morons for the Brutish Empah?

Scottish Socialists for Independence was initiated by the Communist Party of Scotland, who renounced their old GB Imperial title. Like the SRSN, it is a cross party group. We all work together for that end.

I must say there are some factions, Judean Popular Fronts, on the left in the Scotland Yes Campaign who spend more time attacking Alex Salmond and the SNP than putting any case for Indp0endence. Counter productive. I would say?

Here is a worth while folk nite organised by the SCND and I hope some of youse yins may see fit to grace us with your worthiness. Who knows. You may hear some new Scottish sings from Eddie Reader and co.

Glasgow CND is holding a Social event tonight Friday - 1 Nov.
It offers a nice mix of readings, folk music and good craic. The venue will be St Peter's Church Hall, 66 Chancellor Street (near Hyndland St) and it starts at 7.30pm. The readings will come from the actor David Hayman, the Makar (National Poet of Scotland) Liz Lochhead, and writer and broadcaster Chris Dolan.

The music comes from people who equally need no introduction - Mick West, Arthur Johnstone and Mark Callaghan - and we even have our very own political rap artist Marc Livingstone. We have no license, so please bring your own beverages. Glasses will be provided.

Tickets are a very reasonable £6 (£4 unwaged) and are available by replying to this email. Tickets are going well and people should be able to get in at the door, but better to book in advance to be certain.
------------------------------------------

Japan Desk Scotland is going to hold Japan Matters public lecture on 'Environmental radiation in Fukushima' on Friday 8 November at the Mitchell Library from 2.30 till 4pm.
The guest speaker is Mr Kimiaki Saito, Fellow, Tokyo Office, Headquarters of Fukushima Partnership Operations, Japan Atomic Energy Agency.

SCND supporters are welcome to join.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,musket the English person
Date: 01 Nov 13 - 04:30 AM

"Socialist for independence"

Sorry. Just musing.

I'm thinking of starting a thread about oxymorons and researching it at present.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,donald
Date: 01 Nov 13 - 04:20 AM

Good article, which I hadn't seen before. I remember very well that there was a flowering of these protest songs when (Lord) Harold Wilson first brought the Tory Polaris up the Clyde.

Q. How many Labourites does it take to change a light bulb?

A. None. Labour never changes anything.

Morris Blythman was instrumental in bringing a plethora of folk artistes together in protest and encouraging Scottish and International Republican Folk songs. Iain Davison, Alastair MacDonald, the Laggan, Whistlebinkies and many others too numerous to mention. Though I had never knowingly met Jim MacLean I was very much inspired by his Scottish Rebel Song Book and LPs.

We used to include and intersperse folk artistes between public speakers and not treat them as clowns or "mere" entertainers. Most had a powerful message best put in song and musical instruments, far more powerful I would say than any speakers, or a wheen o' pamphlets. The pipes were not proscribed for nothing.

The Irish were particularly good at expressing their politics and history through music and dance. Have you ever heard Peggy Lee singing "The wearing if the Green"?

We sell the IWWW songbook, although we can no longer afford a shop, or premises, I think it is still advertised online. I like the Laggan's version of Joe Hill best and Pie in the Sky is still as relevant as ever. They are particularly good at Bandera Rosa, Rosa Luxembourg and of course Hamish Henderson's John MacLean March. Or late Convenor, Bill Johnston, who retired to North Laggan and died there, was an active member of the IWW and a full time Trade Union official. He had to flee back to Scotland from Mafia gangsters. Though he said our sweetheart Trade Unions and Bosses were older and far more experienced in hidden gangsterism and corruption than the cruder Ham Shanks.

We do not claim to be musical experts, or even impresarios and we stand corrected with a little help from our friends in the industry, particularly Jim, who has been most instructive and illuminating.

I am sorry that Jack chose to attack us over one song, that he personally dislikes, then made personal attacks, particularly over persons and an incident that had have nothing to do with us. I don't expect, or demand, an apology. We all make mistakes. That's life. but would appreciate some constructive criticism and input to our song section on the site and would welcome his expertise and any input on the matter. I myself am no musician and too shy anyway and would bow to superior knowledge.

Sure our whole website could be updated more often. Oor webmaister does his best in his spare time. We do not have a full time staff, or bags of London gold. Unite may give Miliband over £11m for his Tory Party, but no Tame Unions ever gives us a penny and most of our members seem to be "spongers on the Welfare State". Or, "Something for nothing" spongers as Joanne, "Jimmy Krankie" lookalike, would have it. She may, as a member of Unite laying Golden Eggs, but she will always be up the Beanstalk Jack, singing of Jerusalem in Engerland's Queen and Peasant Land.

I do not wish to come on here and argue with anyone. My attention was drawn to a simple error of fact, which I mistakenly expected to be acknowledge. I have no wish to remain on this side defending myself or the SRSM from further attacks. Jim tells me you are a good socialist for Independence. That is fine with me, though I haven't seen any evidence so far, I am willing to leave it at that.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 07:12 PM

Apropos of nothing in this thread, a short article on Scottish radical songs:

The Bottle Imp issue 9

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 05:50 PM

I'll take that as a no then.

Crivens!

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,donald anderson
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 03:54 PM

Sorry, You asked about Michael Donnelly. I heard him address a meeting of Scottish Socialists for Independence in the lecture theatre in the Smith Museum, also discussed it with him after. He read a speech from Mealmaker that was very similar to the pros of Scots Wha Hae. I don't know if he has written anything further. He used to go a great magazine called the Unite Scotsmen and you will find more research on this in our latest issue of Scottish Workers Republic. Michael is into stained gless windaes at the moment.

The tune is supposed to be ancient and played at Bannockburn and the Scots troops piped it in at Orleans when they won the battle for Joan de Arc. The French have a faster marching version called "Hey Tuttie Tuttie" and De Gaul claimed descent from William Wallace. The Japanese and the Basques have a similar sounding tune. A band was arrested in Paisley for playing it in the 19thc. Unfortunately the American settlers used "Now's the Day and Now's the Hour when they invaded Mexico and took what is now Texas. Abraham Lincoln and many others used the slogan.

Liebknecht, incidentally, sang Burns's A Man's Man for a' that, when he faced the firing squad.

As for the English working class having a stronger class deference. Morris Blythman explained that as due to the Manor system, inherited from the Norman Conquest, as opposed to the Tribal system of the Celtic "Fringe". We saw the disastrous effects of that in the Heritable Jurisdiction Acts on the forfeited clan lands after Culloden. Marx said that in Ireland they cleared whole villages, but in Scotland they cleared whole areas the size of German Principalities.

Read Jas D Young's C L James about a black Jamaican Trotskyist and his treatment from the English left and WC, compared to Scotland.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 03:05 PM

You should read Marx, Lenin and Trotsky for attacking the English WC and English bourgeois left. I'm too busy to look up the exact texts word for word at the moment. Read Dr Jas D Young's Rousing of the Scottish Working Class

There is not much to sing about in Scotland - yet. Hugh MacDiarmid once said that Scotland will never have a Revolution because no one is worth shooting. You should watch Labour in the Scottish Parliament on TV to see the proof of the puddings. Our web site is not just about songs. There are historical and educational articles to keep you going.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 02:40 PM

Yep, Bob is on the money.

I had hoped there might be some discussion of the SRSM's choice of songs. Worth having available but I thought it was a bit tired-looking (apart from the obvious clunker I mentioned). There must be other more recent ones that could be added.

And the one thing no organization claiming to be socialist EVER does is attack the working class of any country and its culture. Which is what Donald's comments are doing.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 02:21 PM

Musket, you can never be seious and Bob Kbight is quite correct so goodnight.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,donald anderson
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 01:23 PM

Yes of course that include North Brits. The native Gombeens are aye the worst. Nae shame at 'a. Westmonster and *uckingham Palace are in London. You can keep them and Trident too. You can tow it to the Thames if it is so safe. Salmond only mentioned Sterling as an interim measure. We'll see how London gold holds up without it its most lucrative colony.

BP and the rest were given carte blanche by Lord Harold Wilson to pound the North Sea before Scotland gets its Independence. The Mexican Gulf States secured a better deal and future for its workers with guarantees after the oil runs out. Scotland got nothing and Labour will always fight to make sure Scotland gets nothing.

The word Sterling comes for the ancient and Royal mint in Scotland. One of the 1707 Articles in the Treaty of Union was an agreement that Scotland would keep its mint. Would you like chapter and verse of the other broken articles? White man speak with forked fingers.

According to English cartographers the Malvinas is nearer to London and Shetland is too far away from Edinburgh.

Keep singing Land of Hope and Tory and the Jelly Bean song, while we sail away.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,Musket stoking the firebox
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 01:03 PM

Out of interest, when you say GB right or GB left, GB includes Scotland.

Just saying.

Anyway, it was an attempt to lower the crossbar not break the bugger, to make your goal harder to score in. {Endless stereotyping about Scottish goalkeepers.}




Jim. Serious question. When embracing all for a common goal that transcends politics, are you not risking their more political wants and needs becoming a bargaining chip? Be careful what you ask for. It doesn't come over at all rational to say independence is a goal rather than a solution.

Eedjits like Musket may not live in or vote in Scotland, but if any of Salmond's ideas and predictions were to be realised, eedjits like Musket would therefore be worse off. Yin and Yang and all that.

You said above that sterling is Scottish too, but according to Google Maps, Threadneedle St is in London. Together with the stock exchange. Oh, and the HQ of BP, who are looking at the possibility of closing Aberdeen and moving it all to the Northumberland Coast.

That's the problem with multinationals, unless you offer them a tax haven you can't afford, they don't like Mickey Mouse economies.

Keep singing republican socialist songs. Just think, you can add a whole library after the no vote....

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 12:16 PM

Jack, I have never met Donakd Anderson but my policy is to embrace all who support and call for independence for Scotland, be they Right wing fascists, left wing loonies and all the shades of tartan inbetween. The majority of people in Scotland are level headed and the new parliament will reflect this. The alternative is to allow bickering and in-fighting, goaded on by eedjits like Musket and lead to a possible status quo where the present labour mob would rather see Cameron, Clegg and the UKIP in power than an independent Scotland. You know I am not a member of the SNP but I support their cause, this goes for the Green Party, Labour for independence, Women for independence and the present Scottish Republican Socialist Movement.
Regards,
Jim

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: BobKnight
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 11:51 AM

Could we possibly try to NOT descend to the level of the Daily Telegraph and Daily Mail when it comes to the subject of possible Scottish Independence. Up until now we've managed to keep this site clear of that sort of shite.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,nNo' tellin' ye. Guess who?
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 10:30 AM

The "Oldest Chippie in Glasgow" in the Swallygate, near the Barras, has "Deep Fried Mars Bars" advertised in the windae. I went in and asked if this was a joke and they said not. It was their best seller. The shop was full o' fat basturts wi' old Firm toaps.

My point is the GB left are just as racist about Scotland and have the same attitudes and prejudices as the GB right.

It wis only English cross bars onyway, paid for by oor subsidies tae Wembley, London Olympics, etc.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 10:21 AM

So "it is racist crap" to criticise English folk music and not racist to critic Scots folk music with all the much repeated unoriginal accompanying racist cliques attached? "'aggis, 'eather, shortbread, kilts. tartan, Gaelic",etc

I give up.

Jim, do you know this guy? Has he ever been known to have a clue?

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,Musket grinning
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 10:06 AM

Don't forget the deep fried Mars Bars, pickled livers, coronary heart disease and cross bar breaking hooligans......

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,donald anderson
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 08:01 AM

This is the only site I know that does not automatically include your name, or pseudonym, after each post.

So "it is racist crap" to criticise English folk music and not racist to critic Scots folk music with all the much repeated unoriginal accompanying racist cliques attached? "'aggis, 'eather, shortbread, kilts. tartan, Gaelic",etc

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 05:47 AM

The song Loch Lomond. written by Lady Nairn, is not a music hall song, bu of the old Celtic tradition that says when a man dies in a foreign land his soul returns through the low road and allusion to a Jacobite sojer being hung in Carlisle whilst is brother escaped through the "High Road".

The song was almost certainly written by Lady John Scott, though she did her best to disguise her authorship (attributing it to a folk-processed version of an original by the ballad writer Sanderson of Edinburgh). The Jacobite backstory is entirely urban legend.


Burns wrote Scots Wha Hae to Thomas Muir, though Michael Donnelly of the Stirling Museum, now believes it to be a speech from Thomas Mealmaker of the Friends of the People.

The connection to Thomas Muir is pretty clear. Where does Mealmaker fit in? I've never heard anyone mention him in connection with that song before (Burns implies in his letters that he wrote it very fast without any help from anyone else or any precedent, in a blazing fury at what had happened to Muir). Has Donnelly put his ideas in print?


Most English folk songs I know are tuneless, boring, Imperialist, or pornographic about maidens and threshing machines.
You can see why the person who posted that didn't put a name to it.
I didn't notice the wee box above to sign my name. Though you would know very well from my email address.

Your email address didn't appear in that posting, or in anything associated with it - Mudcat doesn't work that way. And it was racist crap whether signed or not.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 04:55 AM

Allan, hence my song about Prince Charles:

Chorus: Oh it is the greatest mix-up that I have ever seen,
His father is a German and his mother is a Queen!

He is the Prince of Wales although he's England's future King,
And his Granny is the daughter of a Scotchman's Highland Fling!
His Aunt in Holland is a niece of Norway's Royal pair,
And if they all died in their beds he'd be the Belgian heir!

His father's mother came from Greece, his aunt's Bavarian,
Himself, he wears the tartan of the Royal Stuart Clan;
His second cousin's Danish, at least that's what he thinks,
For surely Queen Victoria must be the missing link!

Chorus: Oh it is the greatest mix-up that I have ever seen,
His father is a German and his mother is a Queen!

His mother she is English now, or Scottish in Killin,
Canadian in Canada and German in Berlin!
His cousin's niece is Swedish and his uncle's wife is Greek,
And he himself must surely be an international freak!

King Billy was a Dutchman and King Jamie was a Scot,
But the Prince of Wales just doesn't know if he is here or not!
Our king won't come from London Town, nor yet from Donegal,
Nor will he be from Scotland for we'll have no king at all !!

Chorus: Oh it is the greatest mix-up that I have ever seen,
His father is a German and his mother is a Queen!

- See more at: http://www.scottishrepublicansocialistmovement.org/Pages/SRSMSongsPrinceCharles.aspx#sthash.rJj9ZieR.dpuf

Subject: Scottish republican events
From: GUEST,donald andersob
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 02:38 AM

Thomas Muir Festival

(East Dunbarton)

13-16 November 2013

'SCOTTISH RADICALS AND THE REBELLION OF 1820'

Gathering at

DOUGLAS ACADEMY, CRAIGTON ROAD, MILNGAVIE

ON WEDNESDAY 13TH NOVEMBER 2013 (12.30PM)

Reservation / booking form attached & festival flyer

The third in the Friends of Thomas Muir series of annual study meetings will be held as above.

The principal speakers will be:

    Tom Dowds, Centre for Lifelong Learning, University of Strathclyde, who will present a paper on 'The Radical Trials of 1820'. He will discuss the rebellion of Scottish radicals in 1820, with focus on their subsequent trials.
    Mark Nixon, Honorary Research Fellow, School of History, Classics & Archaeology, University of Edinburgh, who will discuss 'The Radical Heritage', showing how the early Scottish radicals, including those of 1820, inspired a later generation of Scottish democratic campaigners.
    Dr Ralph McLean of the Centre for Robert Burns Studies, University of Glasgow, will discuss 'Lord Belhaven's "Vision" and Scottish Liberty in 1707', to explain some of the roots of Scottish radicalism.

There will also be contributions from Professors Nigel Leask and Gerard Carruthers of the University of Glasgow, Jimmy Watson of the Friends of Thomas Muir, and from The Pupils of Douglas Academy.

There is ample parking at the school. Please note, however, that participants arriving after 12.45pm will require to park outside the school precincts. Light refreshments will be provided mid-afternoon

Annual John MacLean Commemoration 2013
Sunday 24 November 2013
Eastwood Cemetery 1PM (next to Thornliebank Railway Station) for a graveside oration.
Followed by a march from Thornliebank St/Boydston Rd across the road 1.30 pm prompt.
This will be followed by a social/rally at the Shawbridge Tavern, Shawbridge St, with a range of speakers to be agreed. and live music,
including the White Rose folk group.
£5. Children free. All welcome.
buses (First) will take you directly to Eastwood Cemetery. Nearest train station is Thornliebank which you can get from Glasgow Central Station.

www.scottishrepublicansocialistmovement.org

SRSM, P.O. Box 16887, Glasgow, G11 9EP

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,Donald Anderson
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 12:39 AM

"Most English folk songs I know are tuneless, boring, Imperialist, or pornographic about maidens and threshing machines.

You can see why the person who posted that didn't put a name to it."'

I didn't notice the wee box above to sign my name. Though you would know very well from my email address. I don' do anonymity, nor hide behind silly pseudonyms

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Oct 13 - 12:20 AM

When Mrs Lord Jack McaConnell took the plum job of Glasgow Parks and Leisure Department one of her first acts was to remove the collection of Jacobite broadswords from the forecourt of the Kelvingrove museum, which bore the inscriptions "Prosperity to Scotland and No Union. When James landed in Peterhead in the 1715, he had to declare the annulment of the Parliamentary "Union" of 1707. Charles Edward had to do the same when he landed in Glenfinnon in the '45 Rebellion. It is all in the Caledonian Mercury of the time.

Handel's Messiah was written to commemoration Butcher Cumberland's massacre of the wounded and civilian population for years after Culloden, the only Battle honour not displayed on regimental flags. Perhaps you prefer those type of songs, celebration the proscription of kilts, tartans, warpipes clarsach (harp), etc? There was no Republican movement at that time and the only way to oppose the Union was to join the Jacobite army. Most of the army did not want to cross the Border and were quite content to take Edinburgh. Most of the Jacobite officers were Lowlanders who adopted the Highland dress as a standard uniform. The Forfar Regiment wore the MacGregor war check and bolls of tartan, broadswords and, targes etc, were ordered when they occupied Glasgow. Which other country in the world would ban a piece of cloth and music? What is the terrible horror that afflicts the haters of a piece if confectionary (shoartbreid) The 'aggis you go on about was a French dis. Hag is a French word for dried up.. It was a poor person's dish, not a choice one, and Burns was making a joke of it, something the Unionists Caledonian Societies have not yet sussed. Morris Blythman once told me of Unionist Labourites that "irony was lost on the thick".

The song Loch Lomond. written by Lady Nairn, is not a music hall song, bu of the old Celtic tradition that says when a man dies in a foreign land his soul returns through the low road and allusion to a Jacobite sojer being hung in Carlisle whilst is brother escaped through the "High Road". Burns wrote Scots Wha Hae to Thomas Muir, though Michael Donnelly of the Stirling Museum, now believes it to be a speech from Thomas Mealmaker of the Friends of the People. The Smith museum by Michael Donnelly and Elspeth King is well worth a visit for Scottish radical and Indepndence history. Both were hounded from the Peoples Palace in Glasgow by the reactionary/.Unionist Labour administrations.

Many of the Jacobites later joined the Republican United Scotsmen, which you fail to represent from our website. Angus Cameron,a United Scotsman leader, who took Menzies Castle in the Republican Unitesd uprising of 1707, was a nephew of the Jacobite Cameron chief.

You totally ignore our Republican Socialism in favour of Unionist propaganda and self racism, self loathing and self hatred. I suggest yourself and followers do read our site properly instead of misrepresenting and attacking us. Ia m truly sorry about your comprehension problems.

If you say you really knew the persons responsible for the aforementioned farce in the Stock Exchange then you would know they have nothing to do with our site or past history, apart from a failed breakaway group,

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 07:42 PM

Most English folk songs I know are tuneless, boring, Imperialist, or pornographic about maidens and threshing machines.

You can see why the person who posted that didn't put a name to it.

[Jim MacLean]
I agree with you and it's not my type of song

Yes, and Jim's songs are superbly concrete - there is never any ambiguity that would allow them to be misused.

The Divine Right programme invites non-literal or generalized interpretation, perhaps just because it's so loopy. It's a bit like the way on-the-face-of-it-theocratic ideologies in the Islamic world form the focus of secularism - the Alevi/Bektashi in Turkey (a mainstay of Kemalism for decades) and the related Alawites in Syria. It would help if it had ever had some kind of social programme, though.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 07:20 PM

I get what you're saying but really not all of the Jacobite songs were attacking people. Surely many of them were simply romanticised entertainment. The idea that the Pretenders were somehow more Scottish than the Hanovarians is also a myth. They were basically the same family. The Electress of Hanover was every bit as Scottish as the deposed James VII. He was a son of the Scottish born Charles I whilst she was a daughter of Elizabeth Stuart the big sister of the said Charles I. The Old Pretender had one Scottish grand-parent who only actually lived his first few years in Scotland which is exactly the same as George I.In fact people will get in a tizz (illogically enough hundreds of years after the events) over people being overlooked because of their religion whilst ignoring the fact that Elizabeth was overlooked because of her sex. I just find it strange that a site which claims to be republican will put songs on which support the idea of someone ruling by Divine Right. It just isn't really logical if you think about it.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 05:06 PM

Allan, as you know most if not all Jacobite songs were written many years after the events and were an attack on the foreign/German/English monarchy imposed on Scotland rather than some form of romantic desire for a Scottish monarchy, however it was expressed by James Hogg or Lady Nairn. The SRSM song collection is well within its remit to include any song or idea which promotes Scottish independence but my favourite Jacobite song is "Will ye DEFINITLEY no' come back again".

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 05:01 PM

http://www.scottishrepublicansocialistmovement.org/Pages/default.aspx

Britain's Secret War: Tartan Terrorism and the Anglo American State.

By Andrew Murray Scott & Iain MacLeay Sutherland

ISBN 1-85158-313-0

Errata by Donald Anderson

http://www.scottishrepublicansocialistmovement.org/Pages/SRSMArticlesBritainsSecretWar.aspx

Scxottish Republican and Freedom songs.

http://www.scottishrepublicansocialistmovement.org/Pages/SRSMSongbook.aspx

Robert Burns, whose grandfaither was from Stonehaven was out in the Jacobite rebellion, took the short step from Jacobite to Jacobin. MacDiarmid said he was Republican when sober and Jacobite when drunk.

Would you prefer us to post Hanoverian songs. Most English folk songs I know are tuneless, boring, Imperialist, or pornographic about maidens and threshing machines. Not that Burns didn't do bawdy songs. Most of his political songs, such as a Man's Man, were not published here till after his death

Remember Labour, who enjoy the support of the very British left are Loyalist/Royalist/Unionist/Imperialst and anti socialist. Haven't heard you criticise them?

I don't know of anyone in the SNP that reads the People Friend and Supports the Jelly Bean.

We are not millionaires like them nor have the support of the right wing Unionist meejah; Con Dem Labs, UKIP, BNP. HF, EDL, LOL, C{GB, etc, etc, etc.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,Musket being patriotic
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 04:47 PM

Scottish economics 101.

The service and public sector provide the vast majority of the employment.

Ironic that I was listening to Dick singing Buddy Can You Spare a Dime on the ipod earlier. ..

Ok. Blue touch paper glowing. Mission accomplished.

On a serious note. Years ago I closed our Airdrie depot and had the reps and service engineers travel from the Newcastle depot. Long story but my shareholders' confidence in the celtic tiger wasn't quite as optimistic as the Salmond version.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 04:17 PM

Why would a Scottish Republican Socialist Movement post Jacobite songs on its site? Is it just any song that is seen as being from a movement that was revolutionary? Because surely the Jacobites were even further from being Republicans than the Hanovarians were? The Hanovarians, however grudgingly it may have been, at least accepted that the power of the monarchy was limited in some ways.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 03:29 PM

Jack, don 't judge the song site by one song. I agree with you and it's not my type of song, rather dated and juvenile but another song with Liberty it it's title is Peace and Liberty by Robert Burns also dated but what's wrong with the sentiment expressed? Don't give hostage to fortune which allow all sorts of eedjits to post.
I remember when Braveheart came out, almost every English acquaintance I had were 13/14th century Scottish History experts. Now they are all experts in Scottish economics.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 03:11 PM

Okay, I get it. It's a "Popular Front of Judea" situation. The people I knew better back then were the Scottish Republican Socialist League, who Donald Anderson's fraction doesn't want to talk about. I've no idea where they ended up or if any of them are part of the organization behind the SRSM website. (Nor do I really want to know - I don't get involved in conspiratorial politics on any side).

The one thing on the SRSM song site that rang alarm bells with me was their song "Liberty". I've no idea where it came from, but abstract appeals to "liberty" have a sickening history of abuse by American imperialism and I can't see why any progressive organization would ever want to use it as a watchword now. Its sole function is to switch off the listener's brain and get them to rally behind the party line.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 02:48 PM

The press report you listed refers to the Scottish Republican Socialist LEAGUE, a short lived breakaway group from the SRSC, They lasted a few months and grassed each other up in the police cells and turned Queen's evidence against each other in court. All with the exceptions of Peter Wardlaw and Alex Ramsay. If you had read all the press reports at that time you would see that was the case. Also, if you were on our site you might have seen my errata to the misogynist work of fiction and fantasy, "Britain's Secret War", glorifying the League:totally useless as a source of reference. It has so many errors of fact.

There have been a few other copycat groups that have come and gone over the years, which may confuse you, but we are the original and consistent real MacKay.

If someone told you about that abortive incident in advance then that would have been in keeping with them at the time and explains why they all ended up being convicted.

I was not fortunate enough to have met Jim MacLean at that time, but knew of his songs and records and am pleased to know him now. Morris Blytheman, aka Thurso Berwick and many others in the folk scene, were members or fellow travellers. I don't think I have had the pleasure of meeting yourself.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 02:42 PM

I posted before reading Musket curious. I suppose this kind of subject gives room for ignorance to express itself.
1. Scotland will keep the monarchy because it always had a monarchy before the Union with England.
2. The pound sterling is as much Scotland's currency as it is rUK's.
3. Scotland will have it's own defense system as the current UK defense system will be dismantled and Scotland will receive it's proportion of assets.
When a divorce occurs, one member does not keep everything as Musket seems to think.
After independence my view is that in a few years Scotland will swing to Republicanism and probably it's own currency. Salmond's government may not exist after independence as the people of Scotland will decide who will govern them, a bit different from now.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 02:11 PM

Jack, I don't know what you're on about. As you know I contributed some of the songs in the SRSM songbook as have others who are/were pacifists, Tories, Communists, SNP members and just Scottish Socialists. I don't know anyone of the writers who were involved in the so-called Tartan Trial.
I think you make a mistake in linking the present day SRSM with those clowns. The Sky High Joe incident is the only one I remember concerning explosives and was a success also a great song.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 02:07 PM

Are you sure it wasn't the people's popular front of Judea?

Songs of struggle are part of our history and heritage. However, the thought of encouraging terrorism through embracing the historical value of song is something to watch out for. Inadvertent as it may be.

Just think. You may get a Republic of Scotland soon enough.

Doubt it will be a Socialist Utopia though.

What with keeping the Royal Family.

And the pound.

And UK defence.

And relying on good old democracy to deliver it. Notwithstanding the old dears in Morningside have every much a vote as Dick Gaughan & co.

But as you say, the songs may be ok in abstract. You may add a song to be written yet. TThe ballad of Simple Salmond. The last verse is the best. The good people of Scotland are writing it next year.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 01:51 PM

I linked to the website in question so it shouldn't have been any mystery which one I had in mind.

Here is a link to a story in the Glasgow Herald for 26 September 1980. Maybe that might remind you of something.

Glasgow Stock Exchange bombing trial

I didn't take much notice of it at the time, as I was involved in activism around Turkish affairs and the NATO coup had just happened.

Subject: RE: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: GUEST,Donald Anderson
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 01:12 PM

As a founder member of the Scottish Republican Clubs in 1977, which became the SRSP in 1981 and the SRSM in 1989, I know nothing of the allegations above. I suspect he is referring to the Scottish Republican Socialist Movement website.

If you hadn't heard those songs being sung then you could not have been around any of our scoriachs. and ceilidhs.

I don't use pseudonyms. Perhaps you would now be prepared to stand up and be counted.

Subject: Scottish republican socialist songs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Oct 13 - 08:55 AM

Songbook of the Scottish Republican Socialist Movement:

http://www.scottishrepublicansocialistmovement.org/Pages/SRSMSongbook.aspx

I knew those guys back in the late 70s, while they were planning to blow up the Glasgow Stock Exchange (an action their site is unaccountably silent about and which I would have told them wasn't a particularly brilliant idea if I'd been asked). I thought they were a bunch of grudge-ridden macho fantasists, but hey the site does have a collection of okay songs. I never heard any of them singing them at the time, though.