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Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE

GUEST,gedpipes 04 Nov 13 - 12:45 PM
GUEST,Ed 04 Nov 13 - 01:38 PM
Johnny J 04 Nov 13 - 01:59 PM
Don Firth 04 Nov 13 - 02:52 PM
Artful Codger 05 Nov 13 - 04:07 AM
BrendanB 05 Nov 13 - 07:10 AM
Johnny J 05 Nov 13 - 07:55 AM
GUEST 05 Nov 13 - 09:56 AM
GUEST,Grishka 05 Nov 13 - 10:32 AM
Johnny J 05 Nov 13 - 11:28 AM
Johnny J 05 Nov 13 - 11:30 AM
GUEST,PHJim 05 Nov 13 - 05:46 PM
Roger the Skiffler 06 Nov 13 - 04:06 AM
GUEST,Grishka 06 Nov 13 - 05:40 AM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Nov 13 - 01:11 PM
PHJim 06 Nov 13 - 10:35 PM
GUEST,Grishka 07 Nov 13 - 04:48 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Nov 13 - 07:26 AM
BrendanB 07 Nov 13 - 02:26 PM
PHJim 07 Nov 13 - 03:36 PM
GUEST,Grishka 07 Nov 13 - 05:07 PM
PHJim 07 Nov 13 - 05:42 PM
GUEST,Grishka 07 Nov 13 - 06:45 PM
PHJim 07 Nov 13 - 11:00 PM
GUEST,Grishka 08 Nov 13 - 05:21 AM
PHJim 09 Nov 13 - 10:08 PM
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Subject: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: GUEST,gedpipes
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 12:45 PM

Hiya
Can anyone help. I'm looking for some simple chords to get started on a 4 string guitar tuned DGAE. Thanks in anticipation. Ged


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 01:38 PM

Tune the A up to B and use standard guitar chords.

If you need to keep to that particular tuning, use any of the many online chord finders: http://www.chorderator.com/ for example.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: Johnny J
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 01:59 PM

DGBE.... (should it not be "B"?)is the same tuning as a baritone ukelele.

I'm not sure if they have specific chord charts for this instrument or not but you always transpose the positions from a soprano or concert ukelele. The fingerings will be the same but, of course, the chords will be in a different key.

As Ed suggests, they will be very similar to guitar chords and, in many cases, just playing part of the full chord for a string guitar will suffice. Not in all cases and you might have to *add* another note somewhere if it would have been played on the bottom two strings....


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 02:52 PM

DGBE, the same tuning as the top four strings of a standard six-string guitar, would solve the problem nicely.

This is the same relative tuning as the Renaissance guitar, which was one of the first instruments to actually be called a "guitar." Easier to play than a lute, it found great favor with a lot of folks back during the Renaissance and it was not long before composers started applying their talents to the instrument, starting with Alonso de Mudarra.

The Renaissance guitar was double strung, like the lute was. That is, strung in "courses"?two D strings, two G strings, two B strings, but one E string, known as the "chanterelle."

Here is a clip of someone playing a Renaissance guitar:   CLICKY

Along with the standard classical guitar, Julian Bream also plays the lute, the Baroque guitar, and the Renaissance guitar. He said that he considers to Renaissance guitar "The Rolls-Royce of ukuleles."

Close up of a Renaissance guitar:   CLICKY.

Folksinger Jim Brannigan, who has a number of CDs out and who used to post here occasionally, uses a four-string guitar. And years ago, I had a friend who used one.

Lots of music in one of those little boxes!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: Artful Codger
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 04:07 AM

As Johnny J mentioned, the baritone ukulele commonly uses the D-G-B-E tuning, identical in pitch to the top four strings of the standard guitar tuning. Baritone ukulele chord charts can be downloaded from a number of popular ukulele sites, and you can use bari uke tabs as well as guitar tabs; the bari tabs will already reflect any necessary or desired adaptations for 4-string playing.

If possible, find charts which identify which string plays the chord root, since this is a key to finding chord alternatives and inversions up the neck. Lacking that, figure out and mark the roots yourself. In the back of Ukulele Fretboard Roadmaps, by Fred Sokolow and Jim Beloff, you can find an excellent root-identifying chord dictionary which (thankfully!) is expressed as generic movable chord shapes and hence is as applicable to bari uke and Ren guitar as to both serial and reentrant standard ukes. The rest of the book is specific to reentrant ukes in C tuning, so probably not greatly helpful.

Sadly, due to reentrant tuning myopia, the UFR chord dictionary lacks some of the wider chord shapes which come in very handy with serial tunings, such as the 1343 major shape (uninverted, rooted on the 4th string), the corresponding 1342 minor shape and the 5431 dominant 7th (uninverted with no interval gaps, rooted on the 4th string). I don't know how the neck length of the Ren guitar compares to the standard guitar or bari uke, so I don't know how feasible these wider chord shapes are for that instrument, but I use them quite a bit on my serially-tuned ukes.

If you look at "fixed" chord shapes (those with open strings) in a normal bari uke chord chart and imagine fretting the open strings just before the nut, you should be able to find most of undocumented but useful "wider" movable chord shapes. Guitar charts are less useful as a source of chord shapes because they fail to consider either the need for the top strings to sound the chord as completely as possible or the ease of fretting only four strings with closer frets.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: BrendanB
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 07:10 AM

Buy a mandolin chord book. GDAE is standard mandolin tuning.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: Johnny J
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 07:55 AM

Ah, Brendan..

Is this what I've been doing wrong all these years?
I should have just put the strings on the other way round.
:-)


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 09:56 AM

Thanks people and of course I made a mistake my post should have read GDAE as BrendanB correctly points out.
But what is this concept 'buy'?


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 10:32 AM

No need to buy a book if you do not want it. Google "mandolin chords" and find ample resources on the web. The tuning is more appropriate for melody playing though. Primitive strummers are best off with a uke (- which has recently been hijacked by serious players as well, for whom it was not designed).


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: Johnny J
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 11:28 AM

So, we're actually talking about a tenor guitar or similar?

It makes sense now and Brendan's advice wasn't quite so strange after all! Yes, mandolin chords will do the job.

The baritone ukelele as described above is also guitar like but tuned DGBE while the standard tuning for the tenor guitar is traditionally CGDA. However, as with the tenor banjo, fiddle/mandolin tunings in DGAE are now very common too.

Sorry about the mix up.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: Johnny J
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 11:30 AM

Oops, did it again, I meant to say "GDAE", of course!


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: GUEST,PHJim
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 05:46 PM

Although Grishka said, "Primitive strummers are best off with a uke (- which has recently been hijacked by serious players as well, for whom it was not designed)," I don't know where he got that idea. The uke is just another stringed, fretted instrument, capable of being played well or poorly, much like the guitar, banjo, mandolin, banduria, bouzouki, dulcimer...


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 04:06 AM

Where's Will Fly when you need him?

RtS


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 05:40 AM

PHJim, was that a question? If so:

The tuning in fourths and smaller intervals (normal guitars, ukes) produces better voicings of strummed chords, compared to a tuning fifths which allows for a larger range, as often welcome for melodies. Moreover, proper mandolins are designed for typical mandolin techniques at considerable expenses, which would be wasted on strumming.

Tenor guitars are ... um, let Will Fly explain.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 01:11 PM

GDAE and DGBE are both perfectly useful common tunings.   Never tried DGAE till just now, it's rather fun.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: PHJim
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 10:35 PM

Here is Tiny Grimes. He used the DGBE (Chicago) tuning on tenor guitar. While Tiny uses a guitar tuned in fourths, I realize that the tenor guitar is often also tuned in fifths CGDA, but either tuning can be quite effective for melodic or chordal music. I play mandolin and tenor banjo, both tuned in fifths, but my tenor guitar and ukuleles are tuned in fourths. I find both fine for chordal or melodic playing.
I was objecting to the inference that ukuleles were not designed for "serious players", but were meant for "primitive strummers". I consider my mandolin to be a "proper mandolin" and I play it both melodically when I'm taking a break and chordally, when someone else is taking a break. The same is true for my ukulele.
Tiny Grimes with Charlie Parker


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 04:48 AM

Ukuleles were originally designed for strumming (primitively or sophisticated), but that I only wrote in parentheses. More importantly, tunings in fifths are worse suited for strumming, since they produce wide voicings. I think the idea comes from the tenor banjo, as used in noisy Dixieland bands, where it adds to the desired grotesque effect. For strumming in other genres, I would prefer tunings in fourths/thirds, as also available for tenor guitars (- ask an expert about suitable combinations of instrument, tuning, and strings).

Most mandolin players strum sparingly, if at all, but that is of course a matter of taste.

YouTube finds many clips for the keyword "tenor guitar", notably by Mudcat's Will Fly.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 07:26 AM

a matter of taste.

Precisely. It's not a matter of 'this is the right way, yours is wrong", it's about sharing experience and exchanging what we've learnt.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: BrendanB
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 02:26 PM

Here's a thought. Tune the E string down to D. Then google Han's bouzouki page. There are pages of chords in GDAD which could afford you many hours of harmless fun.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: PHJim
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 03:36 PM

BrendanB: I use GDAD on my octave mandolin. It's a great droney sound, similar to DADGAD on guitar, but I find it better suited to the keys of G and D and relative minors. Never tried it on tenor guitar, but, since they are both in the same range, there's no reason why it wouldn't work fine. Good suggestion.

Grishka: If you listen to bluegrass mandolin players, you'll hear a lot of strummed mandolin. Followers of Bill Monroe often strum closed chords on the two and four, muting the strings immediately after strumming...the famous "bluegrass chop".


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 05:07 PM

PHJim, fine with me. Do you actually challenge my statement "Most mandolin players strum sparingly" (- only representing my educated guess, with reasons)? Like my other contributions to this thread, it is meant as a guideline to newbies, not as a dogma for experienced players.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: PHJim
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 05:42 PM

Grishka, I'm not sure about other genres, but I would certainly challenge that statement about bluegrass mandolin players. Check out David Grisman playing behind Pete Rowan and Clarence White n the song Dark Hollow, which starts about 1;55. When he's not playing a break, he's strumming chords.

Dark Hollow - Muleskinner Band


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 06:45 PM

Jim, in your example there are two guitars playing, so there would be no problem of wide voicing even if the strummed mando could be heard at all. The band may have simply wanted to spare us the sight of an idle musician. No objections from me.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: PHJim
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 11:00 PM

Grishka, Are you a mandolin player, or have you played in a group with a mandolin player? I can't imagine playing my solo and then standing and waiting till it's my turn again. The chop chord of the mandolin is an important part of much bluegrass and old time music. I'm sure that David Grisman, one of the world's most respected mandolin players, was not simply strumming the strings to give a good visual effect.
Playing jug band or blues mandolin I will sometimes play a tremolo counter melody or hit double stops, but even in this genre I will often strum chords.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 05:21 AM

Grishka, Are you a mandolin player
Let us put it that way, Jim: I own a mandolin - too expensive to be used as a makeshift ukulele.

On the YouTube video you linked to, I was not able to hear the strummed mandolin at all (due to microphone choreography), but as I wrote, I would have had no objections even if I had heard it. I have no deeper knowledge of bluegrass music, but I have no doubt that these people know what they're doing, and would produce a perfect sound in the studio.

The crucial point is that the guitars provide the compact voicings of the chords - possibly even too compact for some taste. When an instrument tuned in fifths is responsible for the chords alone in a longer passage, the effect on the ears can be problematic.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Chords for 4 String Guitar DGAE
From: PHJim
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 10:08 PM

J.D. Crowe & The New South
Ricky is miked a little high here, but his mandolin, while playing chords, doesn't sound like a "makeshift ukulele".


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