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A new way to collect chanties

Gibb Sahib 10 Nov 13 - 11:02 PM
ChanteyLass 11 Nov 13 - 10:17 PM
GUEST,Geoff the Duck 12 Nov 13 - 06:03 AM
Chanteyranger 12 Nov 13 - 03:21 PM
Gibb Sahib 12 Nov 13 - 06:59 PM
Bill D 12 Nov 13 - 07:24 PM
Gibb Sahib 24 Nov 13 - 11:06 PM
ChanteyLass 25 Nov 13 - 09:23 PM
Gibb Sahib 25 Nov 13 - 11:15 PM
GUEST,Grishka 26 Nov 13 - 03:44 AM
ChanteyLass 26 Nov 13 - 06:46 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 21 Jul 17 - 06:06 AM
Jack Campin 21 Jul 17 - 08:53 AM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 21 Jul 17 - 12:25 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 21 Jul 17 - 12:41 PM
FreddyHeadey 21 Jul 17 - 01:13 PM
meself 21 Jul 17 - 01:26 PM
Steve Gardham 21 Jul 17 - 06:42 PM
Gibb Sahib 23 Jul 17 - 08:01 PM
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Subject: A new way to collect chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 11:02 PM

On 29 Oct., 2013, the latest installment of a video game series was released: Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag.

I don't play video games myself. But I know about this because, from that date, i started seeing the interest in chanties spiking on the Internet.

See, in this game, one of the things the player does in various ports is run around "collecting" "sea shanties," "pirate shanties." etc.

I guess it's just some icon that you grab. Demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chpH20fDCkQ

But once you do, you can playback the collected chanty during play on the sea (?). Some sound like Joe Blow & his Schmoes jumped into the studio real fast, and other sound like they got Great Big Sea or similar Canadien Voyces.

One thing that makes this all a little more interesting than you might suppose is that the game seems to include quite a large number of chanties (perhaps dozens). Another thing is that these "kids" who play these things, for ours at a time, really get the music drilled into their heads—and then they seek out recordings of the songs.

It looks like many of the chanties are performed straight out of Hugill - that is, unmediated by Folk or Sea Music scene renditions. This means that some of the less-performed (i.e. nowadays) chanties have been selected (i.e. since the creators likely did not have a sense of what all chanties were more/less popular). And that means a certain degree of new canonization (< my nod to another thread - deal with it!) going on.


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 10:17 PM

This could almost make me want to play a video game!


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: GUEST,Geoff the Duck
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 06:03 AM

Does this mean we can look forward to games such as "Cecil Sharpe - Zombie Destroyer"?
Quack!
GtD


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 03:21 PM

Ha! Good one, GtD.


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 06:59 PM

I always thought of Sharp as a sort of Fearless Vampire Killer.


Well. here's a thought: For those people interested in and wondering how to get the "youth" interested in Folk Music (etc.) -

Put it in video games.


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Nov 13 - 07:24 PM

Oh, I can just SEE 400 levels of "A Gay Jeste of Robin Hood"


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 24 Nov 13 - 11:06 PM

Here is a recording of the chanties in the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvccU-JeKyk


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 09:23 PM

Are there any on that video that you have not recorded, Gibb?


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 11:15 PM

ChanteyLass,
There are about 3 non-chanties that I've not recorded. (Since I don't necessarily learn/record non-chanties.)

It looks like they got about three different groups together to record the songs.

The "top tier" is a few that have a familiar voice - someone here must surely recognize the singer. (I'm thinking the singer from Great Big Sea, but I can't quite place it.) These are more polished, and they seem to be the tracks that the company has used to promote the shanties aspect of the game.

Then there is a second tier, another group.

The third tier sounds like "random" people (for a lack of a better term). These are markedly less polished.

The interpretations are generally oriented towards imagining the chanties as something sung for entertainment (not work-song style), and during the "Pirate Era." Many false (?) English accents. Picture people with big steins of ale/mead, swinging them to and fro! Needless to say, few have the really "downhome" verses - No one's pickin on the banjo or Way down South amongst the yellow corn.

Some sound like versions based common renditions one finds on recordings, sung in singarounds, etc. Others are clearly verbatim out of Hugill's book. They go through all the "book" verses, in the same order, as Hugill.

A few sound like they may have used my YouTube renditions to get a sense of the tune.

Especially notable are the items that do not have a prominent place in the various Folk and Sea Music scenes. For example, "Roll, Boys, Roll" has not been sung much (at least in my observation). I have gotten many "hits" on my YT vid of that song, presumably because the gamers are looking for recorded versions of the song and they are not otherwise turning up.


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 03:44 AM

Promoting a musical genre through computer games is not really new. I remember a French game from the last century, set in an opera theatre, with a thin detective plot thinly veiling a quiz about classical music. I think it was heavily sponsored by governments (EU?) and the classical record industry - presumably with little success.

Keen gamers are often willing to learn about the cultural setting of a game if they find it exciting to play. The same applies to films and even books. (Teachers of Latin found that their subject had gained more fans by the Harry Potter books!) The interest may be short-lived, but better than nothing.

Robin Hood: bet it exists, Bill D (12 Nov 13 - 07:24 PM), though probably with less emphasis on music.

Realism is always relative. Experts seem to have surprisingly little evidence about spoken English language of past eras, but one thing is certain: it was a lot more different from present-day usage than consumers of entertainment want to hear. This also applies to the "accent" of songs whose lyrics have been conserved in writing.


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 06:46 PM

"A few sound like they may have used my YouTube renditions to get a sense of the tune.

Especially notable are the items that do not have a prominent place in the various Folk and Sea Music scenes. For example, "Roll, Boys, Roll" has not been sung much (at least in my observation). I have gotten many "hits" on my YT vid of that song, presumably because the gamers are looking for recorded versions of the song and they are not otherwise turning up."

Gibb, I love that! Where would the producers of this game be without you?


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 06:06 AM

The concept was by Canadian David Gossage & Hollywood composer Brian Tyler.

Wiki: Brian Tyler

Songs:
Dead Horse
Good Morning Ladies
Leave Her Johnny
Randy Dandy Oh

Lead Vocals – Seán Dagher
Vocals – Michiel Schrey, Nils Brown

Fish In The Sea
Maid Of Amsterdam

Lead Vocals – Nils Brown
Vocals – Michiel Schrey, Seán Dagher

Whisky Johnny O'
Running Down To Cuba

Lead Vocals – Michiel Schrey
Vocals – Nils Brown, Seán Dagher

Patrick Spens
Bouzouki – Seán Dagher
Fiddle – Nelson Carter
Flute – David Gossage
Lead Vocals – Michiel Schrey
Percussion – Richard Irwin

Admiral Benbow
Bouzouki, Vocals – Seán Dagher
Fiddle – Nelson Carter
Flute – David Gossage
Lead Vocals – Michiel Schrey
Percussion – Richard Irwin
Vocals – Nils Brown

Trooper And The Maid
Bouzouki, Vocals – Seán Dagher
Fiddle, Vocals – Nelson Carter
Flute – David Gossage
Lead Vocals – Charlotte Cumberbirch
Percussion, Vocals – Richard Irwin

Assassin's Creed IV Black Flag, Game Soundtrack - RSD Edition, 2xLP, Ubisoft Music – Q102031, 2014 (Side D)



The crew has had another whack at it on CD as the current incarnation of La Nef:

La Nef: Seán Dagher ‎– Sea Songs & Shanties, Atma Classique ‎– ACD22749, 2017


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 08:53 AM

Odd coincidence. I'd never heard the name "Dagher" in my life until a couple of weeks ago, when the oud player in our Middle Eastern group put me on to the excellent Egyptian violinist Abdou Dagher (both names have alternate transliterations). And Google tells me most of the people it knows about with that name are Lebanese.

I can find nothing biographical about Seán Dagher, is he Lebanese-Irish?


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 12:25 PM

Jack: yup -

"I have used my background playing actual medieval music as a source of inspiration in the composition of the songs but I have also drawn on my experience playing folk music from different cultures and on my Lebanese and Scottish ethnicities. I think the style of these pieces reflects the time and place in which we live."

Seán Dagher, Montréal 2013 (he's married to bandmate Amanda Keesmaat)

Liner notes, Trobairitz: Poems of Women Troubadours, Analekta, AN2-9846, 2013

YT Channel


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 12:41 PM

PS: He calls himself an "Irish bouzouki player, singer, arranger, composer, sound guy, concert organizer."

Rest of the bio from Analekta:

"Seán Dagher is an active performer, arranger, and composer of music from various folk and classical music traditions: Celtic, Baroque, Medieval, Arabic, French-Canadian, and Maritime. He is artistic director of Skye Consort and its principal arranger. He often provides arrangements for other ensembles and artists, including La Mandragore, Pierre Lapointe, Shannon Mercer, I Furiosi, Les Voix Baroques, Les Voix Humaines and La Nef. His music has been performed across Canada and the United States. Seán Dagher has worked with the Festival du Monde Arabe creating shows of Middle Eastern and North African music. He has arranged and composed music for audio books, with story-teller and musician Suzanne De Serres Youth Program Director for La Nef, and for American author Sandra Gulland. He has been a composer and sound designer for theatre productions. He has been nominated for numerous Adisq awards and participated in the Adisq-winning CD, La Traverse Miraculeuse with La Nef and Les Charbonniers de l'enfer. Despite all that, Seán Dagher can most frequently be found singing and playing in Irish pubs."


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 01:13 PM

re sean dagher ...
Link to the analekter page
https://www.analekta.com/en/artistes/?dagher-sean.html 

That's the only biog I could see too but here are some other links while I have them

~~~~~~
Sea Songs And Shanties cd with La Nef
http://www.icimusique.ca/albumsenecoute/337/lanef 

"... to drag these pieces, tar-stained and tattered, into a concert hall and onto a recording. ..."
http://www.mdt.co.uk/sea-songs-and-shanties-la-nef-sean-dagher-atma.html 

description on the La Nef page
"Inspired by this tradition of maritime music, Seán Dagher has arranged these songs and tunes to display all the warmth and depth they deserve. Music from England, Scotland, Ireland, the Americas, and the Carabbean sung by a chorus of seven male voices, a powerful instrument indeed. All aboard!
Seán Dagher, voice, cittern; Nils Brown, voice; Michiel Schrey, voice Clayton Kennedy, voice; David Gossage, flutes, voice; Nelson Carter, violin, percussion, voice; Andrew Horton, double bass, voice."
https://lanefeng.com/sea-songs/ 

~~~
facebook.com/sean.dagher 

~~~
http://www.allmusic.com/artist/seán-dagher-mn0001671374/compositions 


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: meself
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 01:26 PM

So ... is Gibb Sahib a pop-star yet? Or at least an Internet Sensation?


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 06:42 PM

My son has a fantastic game set in Victorian London where you are a criminal trying to outrun the law enforcers. You can of course climb very realistic buildings like St Paul's with ease and part of the fun is hijacking coaches. On Waterloo station is a realistic band playing music hall songs. Love it.


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Subject: RE: A new way to collect chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Jul 17 - 08:01 PM

I can definitely hear a version of "Canadian" in these performances.


This thread is old, but some few years back I found an on-line discussion where the creator of the game said they had used my YT channel and that of threelegsoman as resources.


meself,
Thanks for asking ;) The sort of thing that interests me is forming and clarifying accurate historical views of chanty singing. I'm very much interested in the practical dimensions, as I view chanty singing as a practice -- a performative practice, not a repertory of songs about a certain subject or belonging to certain people. At a point in history, certain people acquired this practice and employed it as part of their daily life, and used it as a means of expression. I'm interested in informing all sorts of people about this way of expressing oneself while at daily work. It's my opinion that that can't happen if "chanties" are presented as a subgenre of Folk that one expects to sing while at seaside festivals or to hear as soundtrack in movies about pirates, etc. I'm a weirdo, but if you work at it long enough sometimes you get through to people :o

https://www.pomona.edu/news/2017/07/18-navigating-through-history-sea-chanties
[Note: Song at the end of the embedded video was just tacked on -- does not represent what we did on the ship.]
More representative:
https://www.facebook.com/PomonaCollegeChanty/videos/1594155680614758/


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