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Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'

GUEST,TheMadBlonde 14 Nov 13 - 02:18 PM
GUEST,TheMadBlonde 14 Nov 13 - 02:48 PM
GUEST 14 Nov 13 - 05:11 PM
GUEST 14 Nov 13 - 05:24 PM
GUEST 14 Nov 13 - 06:06 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Nov 13 - 08:40 PM
GUEST 14 Nov 13 - 08:43 PM
themadblonde 14 Nov 13 - 09:01 PM
GUEST 15 Nov 13 - 09:23 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Nov 13 - 12:34 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Nov 13 - 03:03 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Nov 13 - 03:27 PM
Monique 15 Nov 13 - 03:48 PM
GUEST,TheMadBlonde 15 Nov 13 - 04:48 PM
Jack Campin 15 Nov 13 - 05:56 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Nov 13 - 07:02 PM
GUEST 18 Nov 13 - 11:00 AM
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Subject: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: GUEST,TheMadBlonde
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 02:18 PM

Reworking a radio show I did some years ago about Wassail & Wassailing &, having done the groundwork, this time 'round I have time to look into some things I didn't before. One of the things I keep coming back to is "Seignors ore entendez a nus" or the Anglo-Norman Wassail (or carol), or "Lordings, Listen to Our Lay." http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Hymns_and_Carols/NonEnglish/Seignors_Ore_Entendez_A_Nus.htm

As far as I can tell, this is one of the earliest songs to mention wassail (or Wesseyl) & one of the earliest drinking songs too. According to the notes in Bladey's Wassail page, it is:

"regarded as the most ancient drinking song, composed in England, that is extant. This singular curiosity has been written on a spare leaf in the middle of a valuable miscellaneous manuscript of the fourteenth century, preserved in the British Museum, Bibl. Reg. 16, E. viii. It is probably more than a century older than the manuscript itself, and must have been composed at a time when the Norman language was very familiar in England."
http://www.cbladey.com/wassong.html#Anglo-Normon Carol

There are quite a few translations, most of which are similar in spirit, though not terribly faithful in meter or translation. Even though I don't speak French, I recognize enough of it to feel this is the most faithful translation I've yet found ("Lordings, Listen to Our Lay")
http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Hymns_and_Carols/lordings_listen_to_our_lay.htm


What I can't seem to find is a TUNE. REALLY?? For something that old & that important?? I promise, I've searched Mudcat & not found anything—what am I missing?

Thanks for any help you can offer.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: GUEST,TheMadBlonde
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 02:48 PM

I should add that yes, I have found the version of "Lordings, Listen" by Joglaresa with original music by Belinda Sykes, http://www.joglaresa.com/HoaryCD.htm though I don't own it (yet) so I don't have the information that comes with the cd. I was hoping for more info about the TRADITIONAL tune, if there is one. thanks!


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 05:11 PM

Are you looking for the 'original' music?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 05:24 PM

I realise it's probably too old to have "original" music, & besides, it seems the earliest record of it was just the lyrics handwritten into a blank page of a book. But it seems to have been popular in its day so I'm wondering if anyone has heard of a "traditional" tune for it that has survived, as in "sung to the tune of..." I know it doesn't help that different translations have different meters, so perhaps that accounts for it. Just seemed to me that there SHOULD be information on it somewhere & that I'm just not finding it.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 06:06 PM

It's a song from the 1200s I think. The French (Norman) influence on the language after 1066 led into what is now called Middle English (1100-1400-ish). I know you know this stuff, but I'm recapping to get a feel for exactly what you seek. AFAIK, there is no notation that predates the 1500s although I may be corrected for saying that, and gladly so. (Old age and a crap memory.) There is some mention on the www of that song and something to do with Shakespeare. Would it be worthwhile to look into that as a starting place?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 08:40 PM

http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com indicate that both Sandys and Rickert included this old carol in their books. Start with this site and you may be led to a tune.

I can't enter www.cbladey.com


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 08:43 PM

I can, Q. What am I looking for?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: themadblonde
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 09:01 PM

Woo-hoo, the magical Joe has sorted out my long-defunct login, so I get to be on as ME, rather than guest. :-)

My forays onto H&CoC have yielded BOOK notations (including the book notation of the Shakespeare edition) but nothing about music or tune. I suspect that Ms. Sykes is a much better music history scholar than I, so perhaps she decided to write a tune for the lyrics having not been able to find one either. It just seems to me that there SHOULD be--it's rather a charming song & historically important.

I can't afford the Joglaresa cd right now, though I did download the one song as an MP3. If anybody owns the cd & has the "4 page booklet," would you please let me know if it says anything about this song?

& Q, the Bladey site can be problematic, but it's worth checking out if you have any interest in Wassail. The problem could be my link; you might trying googling Wassail+Bladey to see if that works better.

Thanks again, folks!


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 09:23 AM

cbladey (at) verizon (dot) net


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 12:34 PM

Guest, cbladey@verizon.net produces a site called Hearth.

No, the url posted by TheMadBlonde works, but I need to upgrade my program in order to use it fully. My problem!


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 03:03 PM

Lyr. Add: SEIGNORS, ORE ENTENDEZ À NUS
13th C.

1
Seignors, ore entendez à nus,
De loinz sumes venuz à wous,
Pur Quere Noel;
Car l'em nus dit que en cest hostel
Ahi, c'est jur.
Den doint à tuz icels jolie d'amurs,
Qui à danz Noel ferunt-honors!
2
Seignors, jo vus dis por veir,
Ke danz Noel ne velt aveir
Si joie jur.
E replendi sa maison
De payn, de char, e de peison,
Por faire honor.
Den doint à tuz icels jolie d'amur!
3
Seignors, il est crié en l'ost,
Que cil qui despend bien, e tost,
E largement,
E fet les granz honors sovent,
Deu li duble quanque il despend,
Por faire henor.
Den doint à tuz icels jolie d'amur!
4
Seignors, escriez les malveis,
Car vuz nel les troverez jamais
Be bone part:
Botun, batun, ferum, groinard,
Car tot dis a le quer cunard
Por faire henor.
Den doint à tuz icels jolie d'amur!
5
Noel byt bien li vin Ebnleis,
E li Gascoin, e il Franceys,
E l'Angevin:
Noel fait beivere son veisin,
Si qu'il de dort, le chief enclin,
Sovent le jor.
Den doint à tuz icels jolie d'amur!
6
Seignors, jo vus di par Noel,
E par li sires de cesr hostel,
Car bevez ben:
E jo primes beverai le men,
E pois après hescon le soen,
Par mon conseil;
Si jo vus di trestoz, "Wesseyl!"
Dehalz eit qui ne dirra, "Drincheyl!"

"(From Douce's Illustrations of Shakespeare, MS.
Taken from http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com
Translation to follow-


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 03:27 PM

SEIGNORS ORE ENTENDEZ à NUS
Anglo-Norman Carol, (Version 2)
"Translation," from William J. Phillip
(From www.cbladey.com/wassong.html)

Lordlings, listen to our lay,
We have come from far away to seek Christmas;
In this mansion we are told,
He his yearly feast doth hold;
'Tis to-day!
May joy come from God above,
To all those who Christmas love.

Lordlings, I now tell you true,
Christmas bringeth unto you
Only mirth;
His house he fills with many a dish
Of bread and meat and also fish,
To grace the day.
May joy come from God above
To all those who Christmas love.
To English ale and Gascon wine,
And French, doth Christmas much incline,
And Anjous too;
He makes his neighbour freely drink,
So that in sleep his head doth sink
Often by day.
May joy come from God above
to all those who Christmas love.
Lords, by Christmas and the host
Of this mansion hear my toast--
Drink it well-
Each must drain his cup of wine,
And I the first will toss off mine;
Thus I advise.
Here then I bid you all Wassail,
Cursed be he that will not say, Drinkhail!
May joy come from God above,
To all those who Christmas love,


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: Monique
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 03:48 PM

Translation into modern French that I found there.

Seigneurs, à présent écoutez-nous :
De loin nous sommes venus à vous
Pour demander Noël ;
Car l’on nous dit qu’en cet hôtel
De coutume on célèbre sa fête annuelle.
Ah ! ah ! c’est le jour.
Dieu donne ici joie d’amour
À tous ceux qui feront honneur au jour de Noël !

Seigneurs, je vous dis pour vrai
Que le jour de Noël ne veut avoir
Bien que joie,
Et qu’il remplit sa maison
De pain, de chair et de poisson,
Pour faire honneur.
Dieu donne ici joie d’amour
À tous ceux qui feront honneur au jour de Noël !

Seigneurs, il est crié en la foule
Que celui qui dépense bien, et vite,
Et largement,
Et qui fait les grands honneurs souvent,
Dieu lui double ce qu’il dépense
Pour faire honneur.
Dieu donne ici joie d’amour
À tous ceux qui feront honneur au jour de Noël !

Noël boit bien le vin anglais,
Et le gascon, et le français,
Et l’angevin ;
Noël fait boire son voisin,
Si bien qu’il s’endort la tête penchée
Souvent le jour.
Dieu donne ici joie d’amour
À tous ceux qui feront honneur au jour de Noël.

Seigneurs, je vous dis de par Noël,
Et de par les maîtres de cet hôtel,
Que buviez bien ;
Et moi, primo, je boirai le mien,
Et puis après chacun le sien,
Par mon conseil.
Je vous dis donc à tous, vassaux,
Au diable qui ne dira : Trinquons !


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: GUEST,TheMadBlonde
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 04:48 PM

Thanks, Q & Monique. I think I shall have to content myself with the Joglaresa recording for a tune. Fortunately, I think Ms. Sykes did a very good job coming up with a "traditional sounding" tune; I could just wish they'd included another verse or two. At least SOMEONE realised the potential of the piece (I find it charming!) & so it still has a musical presence in our world.

However, if anybody stumbles across this thread & has more to add, please do!


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 05:56 PM

Problem with fitting a tune to it is that the verse form changes after the first verse. And that verse doesn't look like a chorus.

"Kalenda Maya" is from the same period and sorta fits, if you chop and repeat a bit.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 07:02 PM

I must apologise for sloppy posting of the original.
Verse 1- missing line 5
Soleit tenir sa feste anuel

Verse 6- Line 5 should be
E pois après chescon le sœn (so yoked)

Comparing the text in the site linked by Monique with the one in Hymns and Carols of Christmas which I posted, some accents have been left out and there are a few misspellings in the latter.
V 1 L 2- vus, not wous (or is wous an Anglophone form in Douce?).

See the text in Monique's link for accents.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'Seignors ore entendez a nus'
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 13 - 11:00 AM

Jack Campin, thank you for the suggestion. I don't know the tune you mention but am off to go look it up.


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