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Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight

Will Fly 15 Nov 13 - 04:58 PM
Richard Bridge 15 Nov 13 - 05:09 PM
GUEST,Ed 15 Nov 13 - 06:07 PM
GUEST,Brian Peters 15 Nov 13 - 07:22 PM
GUEST,Ed 15 Nov 13 - 07:35 PM
Kampervan 16 Nov 13 - 12:46 AM
Will Fly 16 Nov 13 - 04:03 AM
Les in Chorlton 16 Nov 13 - 06:05 AM
Uncle Tone 16 Nov 13 - 06:18 AM
Anne Lister 16 Nov 13 - 08:40 AM
Les in Chorlton 16 Nov 13 - 09:01 AM
Uncle Tone 16 Nov 13 - 09:07 AM
Will Fly 16 Nov 13 - 10:00 AM
Will Fly 16 Nov 13 - 10:26 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 16 Nov 13 - 10:55 AM
GUEST,johncharles 16 Nov 13 - 11:34 AM
GUEST 16 Nov 13 - 03:49 PM
GUEST,pete from seven stars link 16 Nov 13 - 05:50 PM
GUEST,Ed 16 Nov 13 - 07:49 PM
GUEST,henryp 17 Nov 13 - 12:09 AM
andrew e 17 Nov 13 - 02:43 AM
GUEST,Allan Conn 17 Nov 13 - 04:31 AM
Will Fly 17 Nov 13 - 04:56 AM
GUEST,Allan Conn 17 Nov 13 - 06:57 AM
G-Force 17 Nov 13 - 07:08 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Nov 13 - 07:11 AM
Uncle Tone 17 Nov 13 - 01:53 PM
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Subject: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 04:58 PM

Anyone watching this? Halfway through and I'm not impressed either by his singing (voice sounds shot) or the latest songs. Looking at it out of curiosity, really...


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 05:09 PM

He always was a tosspot


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 06:07 PM

No, his voice clearly isn't what it was, but the guy is 71.

I quite like the new songs. Not his best, of course, but a good deal better than I could write! His recent album 'New' has generally been very well received. I thought the arrangement of 'Mr Kite' was really rather good.

I shall ignore Richard's frankly stupidly pathetic comment.


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 07:22 PM

Enjoyed Mr Kite, but the covers were generally too faithful, and the new stuff veered close to the Rutles at times.


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 07:35 PM

the new stuff veered close to the Rutles at times

LOL, Brian! My initial thought exactly. Especially the song 'New'. Mind you, I rather like The Rutles...

Not quite sure what you mean by the covers were generally too faithful?

How can he cover his own songs? And surely faithful versions are what his audience want?


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Kampervan
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 12:46 AM

Will Fly, I agree that his voice isn't what it used to be, and he age is a matter of fact.
But the people who go and see him go because they think that he's great and they would still go if he sounded like a frog's chorus. If we don't like the way that he sounds then we don't have to buy a ticket or buy his music.
As it is, however he does it, he gives a lot of pleasure to a lot of people and who's to say that's wrong.

K/van


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 04:03 AM

I've no doubt that many, many people will support Macca through thick and thin, regardless of his age, voice quality, etc. Good luck to them - I merely made a passing comment based on switching on the TV and finding him on it. I don't buy the argument that just because someone gives pleasure to millions they're beyond any sort of criticism.

I suppose there's a bit of me that wishes that people would grow old gracefully and adapt themselves to what they're actually capable of doing. Many of us at that age (and I'm nearly 70) choose material to perform which suits what our voice, in keys which match what we can sing. My own voice, for better or worse, has dropped between two to three tones in the last 40 years - and I choose material to perform, and keys to perform in, which suit that tonal drop.

McCartney's a talented musician who is inevitably going to be locked for part of the time into that enviable and famous back-catalogue from Beatles days - tunes that many of us bopped to in teenage days and beyond. Nothing wrong with that and - if he can still hack it - good luck. But if the voice can't hack it, then he's bound to come in for a bit of criticism.


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 06:05 AM

Ellesmere Port Civic Hall October 1972. I thought they were OK but thought The Undertakers - guitar band with Sax and Derrie Wilkie and the Pressmen - two saxes and a black singer - far more exciting.

However John, Paul, George and Ringo went on to create the most original and diverse collection of popular music to date.

Paul can do what he likes. If you don't like it don't listen.


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 06:18 AM

I agree with Will. There is nothing there that would compel me to rush out and buy the new album that he is plugging.

Tone


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Anne Lister
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 08:40 AM

I can't see the point of starting a thread on a folk/blues forum to knock a pop star (who has in the past few months performed some "pop up" gigs and some shows for Radio 2 that have resulted in spectacularly good reactions from the audiences ... remembering that the "pop up" gigs were not necessarily to existing fans). Friends and family who have attended his live gigs have come away more than impressed.
If you don't like Macca, turn the programme off. Don't buy his albums. I doubt if it will make the tiniest bit of difference to his income or his reputation. But why use Mudcat to have a go at him (or anyone else, for that matter)?
Unless it makes you feel proud of yourself that you don't like something or someone? Sorry, but I have less respect for some of you because of this.


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 09:01 AM

Well put AL


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 09:07 AM

"why use Mudcat to have a go at him (or anyone else, for that matter)?"

Like you are using mudcat to have a go at us for having a go at him?

(Please insert smilie of your choice)

Tone


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 10:00 AM

Anne - with respect, I came across the Paul McCartney programme by accident while trawling the TV with the remote. I listened for a bit, out of curiosity, and was less than impressed with what I heard. So I wondered if anyone else "out there" was listening - and asked for opinions other than mine. Fair enough?

This is a music forum. I would expect there to be interest in opinions about music. I'm not "having a go", for heaven's sakes - I'm merely expressing an opinion on what I heard, as is anyone who listens to anything. Likes and dislikes - we all have them. I'm not trying to put him down or build him up, or do anything with any ulterior motive other than to pass a fair and personal critical opinion and ask for other fair and personal critical opinions. If I wrote for the Observer (for example), would it somehow be "validated"?


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 10:26 AM

I'll just add a little more about my reactions to this programme - just so you can see exactly where I'm coming from.

In my late teens I adored the Beatles. They were the greatest things since sliced bread. I bought every one of their albums as they came out and played them incessantly. I particularly liked Paul McCartney's compositions and spent hours analysing "Yesterday", "Michelle", "Martha, My Dear" and countless others. In short, I was a huge Beatles and McCartney fan.

So... when I came across the McCartney programme on BBC4, I was pleasantly surprised and thought I'd give it a good listen. And I was disappointed. I expected better - and I don't make any allowances for age. Why should I? I would make no allowances for age for anyone, and I would expect anyone who couldn't hack it to slow down and stop gracefully. But, I was curious as to whether other people had a similar reaction to myself - hence the question on this forum.

Why on earth should I suspend my critical faculty about music I've listened to? Are we to keep mum unless we've liked something? Is there to be no discussion on the merits of a performer? It's not as if someone like McCartney, who's a world figure with millions in the bank and all the clout in the world would give a flying fuck about one personal opinion on Mudcat.

If I go out and make music, I have to live with the criticism I might get the punters - good or bad. That goes everyone, even if their Paul McCartney.


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 10:55 AM

I've always loved the Beatles (got the first album for my 17th birthday in 1963)but gave up watching half way through Mr Kite last night.

R


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: GUEST,johncharles
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 11:34 AM

We can't criticise poor singers in singarounds as we might hurt their feelings, and Paul McCartney used to be good so is now immune from criticism.
Criticism is what raises standards in the first place and maintains them in the long run.


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 03:49 PM

Only listened to the first part and so far I have to say I love the raw energy of the performance. The voice is real unlike the sanitised X factor performances that do little to engage me. Will is right, the voice is no longer as perfect but still a lived in voice that grabbed me and made me want to listen. I bought the new album after reading a few reviews and I'm glad I did. Lots of variety, excellent band and I think he has something to say in his lyrics which is important.


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 05:50 PM

I hope it is not inevitable that your vocals get worse as you age. last time I see him on tv I was disappointed by his singing. maybe he did,nt look after his voice, having always done so well previously.
but he remains a talented, successful performer and songwriter.


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 07:49 PM

I hope it is not inevitable that your vocals get worse as you age

Well you can hope, I suppose....

Everything, apart from perhaps wisdom, gets worse as you get older.

And the increase in wisdom only applies to those mellow enough not to become exceptionally grumpy


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 17 Nov 13 - 12:09 AM

Yesterday - there's more;

Beatles at the BBC - This programme compiles extracts from Pop Go The Beatles (July - September 1963), Public Ear (November 1963), From Us To You (March 1964) The Alan Freeman Show (July 1964), and Saturday Club (November 1964).

Broadcast on BBC Radio 2, 10:00PM Thu, 14 Nov 2013
Available on BBC iplayer until 11:02PM Thu, 21 Nov 2013

The Beatles, On Air: Live at the BBC Vol 2
Featuring broadcast recordings from a half-century ago, On Air features The Beatles' early hits and covers from their Hamburg setlist, interspersed with cheeky backchat with Auntie's staid presenters. (The Independent)

Good Ol' Freda will be shown on More4 on 10 December, 9pm. It is also available to buy on DVD from 4 December at amazon.co.uk


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: andrew e
Date: 17 Nov 13 - 02:43 AM

I'm very hesitant to post on this forum any more, as there always seems to be someone to jump on you.
An opinion is just that and there's nothing to argue with.
So I just state how the show was for me.

Yes, PM's voice was not the best. He could have had a bit of a cold, or maybe it's not as dependable as it used to be, as he's got older.
He could maybe benefit from a few singing lessons with the right teacher. Vocal warm ups can be a good thing, and there could be things that he's doing where he's creating tension, when it was easy for him before.

I didn't really like the overall sound of the band. The guitar a bit harsh maybe. Not pleasant on my ears.

Songs were mostly good. He's got so many to choose from!

Good on him for keeping going with live performances when he's 71, and when he's mostly singing songs written for when he was much younger.


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 17 Nov 13 - 04:31 AM

I must admit I enjoyed the concert more than I thought I would as his voice isn't what it used to be. I like his band and the songs shine through. I quite like his new album too. Best As good as anything he's done in his own name for quite a while. Post Beatles he has had some wonderful songs but the albums have been more inconsistent though I think Band On The Run is a pop classic that stands alongside anything in that genre. He is still relvant too and still experimenting with the likes of his three electronic albums under the name of The Fireman. The first two were all instrumental though there are songs on the third. So even if his voice packed in altogether he could still produce good music. There are people with more shot voices than his who get away with it because they write melodies to suit their very limited voice. Paul is still trying to soar. I like this track from The Fireman





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PlnMkwws6A


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Nov 13 - 04:56 AM

There are people with more shot voices than his who get away with it because they write melodies to suit their very limited voice.

Absolutely. The important thing, IMO, is to sing mainly, but not necessarily always, within your range. So, if the range changes with age, then the singing ought to change to suit it. Of course, when you've made classic records known by millions, it's not always easy to do that.


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 17 Nov 13 - 06:57 AM

Totally agree with you Will. I like his latest album but the song about him and Lennon as kids is just a wee bit high for him in parts and that's in the studio not even live. I suppose because he's always been a melodic writer then he still wants these parts to soar but for new material especially he should maybe be writing to his range. All in all though I just thought the concert was better than I expected it to be after seeing him several times on TV over the past couple of years. I kind of enjoyed it.


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: G-Force
Date: 17 Nov 13 - 07:08 AM

Hearing people who 'aren't as good as they used to be' makes it all the more sad when someone like Lou Reed dies, who was still knocking out great CD's to the end (I even liked the 'Lulu' CD, although I'm in a small minority there).

Tom Waits is another, better now than 30/40 years ago (certainly more cutting edge).

As for changing your style to suit your changing voice, just listen to Joni Mitchell these days.


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Nov 13 - 07:11 AM

He did Hey Jude and Back In The USSR, so wot's anyone complaining about! Mr Kite was great, as was Things We Said Today, a genius song. Nifty modulations, tierces de Picardy, the lot! Agreed about his new stuff. Still, you can't expect him to stick just with Beatles and VERY early Wings stuff, much as some of us might love him to.

There was a great Afternoon Play on Radio 4 last Thursday, definitely worth catching on iPlayer, called Sorry Boys You Failed The Audition. Very appealing to ex-members of the Beatles Fan Club such as yours truly!


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Subject: RE: Paul McCartney BBC4 UK 9.30pm tonight
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 17 Nov 13 - 01:53 PM

@Andrew

"I'm very hesitant to post on this forum any more, as there always seems to be someone to jump on you."

Isn't that a fact!

To the Jumpers. Why not just accept that others have a different opinion and respect that in the debate, without having to shout that their views are wrong because you disagree and they should therefore apologise.

You, who do this, know who you are.

Tone


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