Folklore: Britannia Coco-nut Morris

Subject: RE: Folklore: Britannia Coco-nut Morris
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 05:54 AM

Here's the question asked of the Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs on 21st Nov which I think is what Sue must have heard about on her car radio:

Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con): The Britannia Coco-nutters, led by their longest serving member, Dick Shufflebottom, have danced in Bacup in my constituency for the past 156 years. They survived the depression, two world wars and the winter of discontent, but it looks as though their boundary dance may not
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survive the health and safety inspectors from Rossendale borough council and Lancashire county council. Will my right hon. Friend ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government to come to the House and make a statement about how the Britannia Coco-nutters can be accommodated for generations to come?

Mr Lansley: I am interested to learn about this from my hon. Friend as, I am sure, are my hon. Friends at the Department for Communities and Local Government. If the matter relates to the Health and Safety Executive in particular, the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, our hon. Friend the Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey), who I know takes a common-sense view of things, will be happy to talk to my hon. Friend about how such provisions are properly applied in this case.
Hansard
(A search on Bacup will find the relevant extract)

LFF

Subject: RE: Folklore: Britannia Coco-nut Morris
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 06:14 AM

I wonder if there is here in UK an underlying political unrest regarding what some see as 'British' or 'English' traditions being displaced by newer less familiar cultural practices? Some sections of society are quite sensitive about our old customs being swept away, while in-coming populations' festivities take over. It could be a hobby horse for BNP-type activists to get defensive and point to immigration etc as an evil which undermines our ways. If so, one must be careful to moderate ones reactions and keep calm. I've seen on TV an enormous, almost endless procession in Birmingham of Muslims enjoying some Eid festival and then there's the Notting Hill Carnival. There seems to be funding for Police presence, traffic control etc for these. I love the Nutters, and IMO everything should be done to enable them to continue. Loads of folk get great pleasure from their dancing.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Britannia Coco-nut Morris
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 09:15 AM

The origins of which lie in 'old English' customs, which isn't racist

Racism is the oldest traditional English custom of them all. And bugger the origins - which are always spurious fakelore anyway. No one blacking up in today's cultural climate can do so entirely innocent of the racist implications of such a noxious act.

As someone said (I forgot who!) the true origin of any Folk Custom is only the last time it was performed; the time before that is part of a different continuity already lost in the mists of time.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Britannia Coco-nut Morris
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 09:38 AM

And bugger the origins - which are always spurious fakelore anyway.

Followed by

the true origin of any Folk Custom is only the last time it was performed

Do you not see those two statements as contrary, Jack? While I agree that a lot of the explanations of 'traditions' are fake - I made a few up myself. Blind Willy Higginthorpe the Lancashire clog dancing blues singer for instance :-) - But I cannot agree that they are 'always spurious fakelore'. I think, at best, if we apply the bit about 'lost in the mists of time', the best we can say is we don't know. We do not know, therefore, whether the original versions were at all racist in their origins. I cannot see, for instance, that the black masks worn in some ancient theatres were worn for racist purposes.

What I do agree with is that "No one blacking up in today's cultural climate can do so entirely innocent of the racist implications". However, just because some can take it as being racist does not mean it is so. I see no reason why people cannot black up and why, provided it known not be be the same as minstrelry, anyone should take offense.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Folklore: Britannia Coco-nut Morris
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 10:21 AM

Do you not see those two statements as contrary, Jack?

Er - no - not really.

One is my own statement with respect of the limits of folklore to account for the origins / meaning of anything without resorting the spurious. The other is an almost-quote (as I say I can't remember who said it, nor their exact words) pointing out that the traditional provenance of any custom is only as old as the last time it was performed. In the absence of any firm historical evidence then it will always be a matter of speculation.

In any case the origin of a custom is of less importance than its performance in the here and now. On That performance alone it will be judged to be a Living Tradition, or at least a revival of one, which most of these things are anyway.

Bit like Dr Who really - you had the Real Traditional Old Dr Who, which died the death (in more ways than one), then The Revival Dr Who that reinvented it with scant respect for what went before but still lays claim to the years of the original in order to bolster its significance.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Britannia Coco-nut Morris
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 10:32 AM

Hey! Stick to Doctor Who on the Doctor Who thread :-) Answer posted on there BTW.

Seriously though - Good example apart from everyone knows the origins of the original Who. I can see what you mean about revivals having scant respect for the original but in the case of folklore we do not have the luxury of knowing what the original was all about. OK, we have pictures and music but we don't have the why as to people danced this way or wore those clothes or used certain colours. Best thing we can do is guess.

But as someone said earlier, this is not about blacking up. It seems to be more about 'elf and safety.

Cheers

DtG