B.B.C. Folk Awards 2013

Subject: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 06:29 AM

On the B.B.C., I've heard, and appreciated, two lots of Scottish but no English or Welsh folk awards..?

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 07:06 AM

I suggest withholding your licence fee..

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 08:04 AM

I've suggested, in verse, "Nationalism Without Conquest": http://walkaboutsverse.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/walkaboutsverse-84-of-230.html

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 09:17 AM

But we all "know" that only the Scots and Irish have folk music

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: GUEST,Roger in Bilston
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 01:58 PM

What are you talking about? Is this some 'in joke' or sarcasm?

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 05:56 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_Trad_Music_Awards

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 06:45 PM

WV I don't quite get the poem and I'm not really sure about the sentiment of the thread either. What has it to do with nationalism? Scotland has lots of, and has always had lots of, national institutions, events etc. People participate whether they are nationalists or not and of course the bulk of Scots aren't nationalists. The likes of BBC Scotland itself can hardly be called a Scottish Nationalist institution. So you appear to be having a bit of a dig at Scots for having a Scottish identity and for giving some small place to folk music in the media. Wouldn't it be better trying to encourage an English identity and encouraging a place for folk music within it? Be positive about yourself rather than leaning towards being negative towards others.

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 06:56 PM

I'm glad the Scots have their own national folk awards, and wish the same for Wales and England. I don't like Kingdoms but believe, rather, in an English nation and the United Nations: i.e., positive nationalism, as detailed here in prose - http://davidfranks.blogspot.co.uk/p/messages.html

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 07:03 PM

"Everything in moderation..?
    Well, with "nationalism" it's true:
It can carry unique cultures on
    But, overdosed, cause their conquest, too."

That is the poem that I didn't quite get the relevance of. Why was it quoted where it was? It sounded like you were saying that Scots holding Scottish Folk Awards was down to nationalism and that too much nationalism will be their downfall. Maybe you weren't. Maybe on only the third post in this thread which you started you decided to post a completely irrelevant piece of poetry!

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: GUEST,Roger in Bilston
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 09:06 PM

There are some 'Celtic' bands nominated but also a majority of English bands. This is the BBC folk awards not the English folk awards.
Why don't you set up the English folk awards if that's what you want?

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Nov 13 - 08:09 AM

The BBC, Roger, should be dissolved into an SBC, an WBC, and an EBC - with the latter setting up an English Folk Awards.

And that poem is relevant, Allan, in that it's saying the kind and level of nationalism that allows a Scottish Traditional Music Awards is good for humanity, but not the overdose that produced the British Empire, with it's conquest of cultures.

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 22 Nov 13 - 08:26 AM

The nominations are:

Folk Singer of the Year
Bella Hardy
Fay Hield
Lisa Knapp
Lucy Ward

Best Duo
Ross Ainslie & Jarlath Henderson
Josienne Clarke & Ben Walker
Catrin Finch & Seckou Keita
Phillip Henry & Hannah Martin

Best Group
Breabach
The Full English
Lau
Melrose Quartet

Best Album
Child Ballads – Anaïs Mitchell & Jefferson Hamer
The Full English – The Full English
Hidden Seam – Lisa Knapp
Vagrant Stanzas – Martin Simpson
Won't Be Long Now – Linda Thompson

Horizon Award
Olivia Chaney
Josienne Clarke & Ben Walker
Greg Russell & Ciaran Algar
Georgia Ruth

Musician of the Year
Aidan O'Rourke
Will Pound
Martin Simpson
Sam Sweeney

Best Original Song
Love's For Babies and Fools – Linda Thompson
None the Wiser – Chris Wood
Swimming in the Longest River – Olivia Chaney
Two Ravens – Lisa Knapp

Best Traditional Track
Codi Angor – Georgia Ruth
Les Bras de Mer – Catrin Finch & Seckou Keita
Mary Macdonald's – Rant
Willie of Winsbury - Anaïs Mitchell & Jefferson Hamer

BBC Radio 2 Young Folk Award
Hattie Briggs
Gentlemen of Few
Granny's Attic
The Mischa Macpherson Trio

The public vote for Album of the Year, plus other details about the awards, can be found Here.

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 22 Nov 13 - 08:54 AM

Fair do re the poem. Just without the explanation of what you were meaning it wasn't clear what it was aimed at. So if I got the wrong end of the stick I apologise.

As to the BBC then of course there is nothing stopping an English Folk Awards being sceened only in England at the moment (just as English football games sometimes are)though I imagine Scottish etc folk enthusiasts may well want to watch it too anway. BBC Alba of course is extra to BBC Scotland and there is maybe an argument for a specifically English culture Freeview channel too. Is there actually an English Folk Awards at the moment? Or even regional Folk Awards in England? I mean something doesn't have to be televised to be in existence - but if it was in existence then the programmers may take note! These things needs someone to get them going though. If there is an audience for them then it may take hold.

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 22 Nov 13 - 12:51 PM

The BBC Folk Awards, as the nominations above demonstrate, are mostly English folk anyway.

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: breezy
Date: 22 Nov 13 - 01:34 PM

hey! hang on! I'm not listed

Its cos I'm Welsh.

and over 25, just

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Nov 13 - 05:57 PM

From enjoying the highlights on TV, I'm aware that there is Welsh trad music within annual Eisteddfods, but I'm quite sure that there is still no Welsh nor English folk awards. If the Scots vote to go-it-alone next year (fingers crossed), this may well happen, by default, sooner rather than later...

One thing perhaps we can all agree on - there are some good folk singers and musicians in the list above.

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 22 Nov 13 - 08:32 PM

I think you have a point Matt. The English Folk Awards probably wouldn't look much different from the Folk Awards as they stand hence that is possibly a reason why there isn't much demand for them. Scotland is a wee place and the Scottish folk community is quite close knit hence we have our own wee awards seperate from the much bigger UK ones

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Nov 13 - 03:32 PM

The pre-match entertainment at Murrayfield today included Highland bagpipes and Highland dancing...wouldn't it be nice to see English concertinas or English flutes/recorders and Morris dancing before England's home rugby matches.

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Nov 13 - 07:09 PM

And, on a lighter note, as well as helping keep traditions alive, such waving of white hankies could lull the opposition into a false sense of security!

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 24 Nov 13 - 05:18 AM

"wouldn't it be nice to see English concertinas or English flutes/recorders and Morris dancing before England's home rugby matches. "

That really is very, very funny Ms/Mr Walkabouts Verse, clever understated irony

Thank you

Subject: ' is a conrRE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 13 - 08:47 AM

all these idiotic awards for music which is 'traditional' is a contradiction in terms anyway- most of it' s crap

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Nov 13 - 01:41 PM

I rest my case, Les - the Scots at Murrayfield do NOT laugh at Highland dancing to the strains of Highland pipes before kick-off.

And Guest: competitions have helped keep our traditional music and song alive for centuries - that's how, e.g., a famous recording, about a century old, of Joseph Taylor now lies in the EFDSS - http://www.efdss.org/

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Nov 13 - 06:25 PM

competitions have helped keep our traditional music and song alive for centuries

Could you tell me where and when - and how many centuries?

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Nov 13 - 07:00 PM

It was the early 20th century that singer Joseph Taylor competed before being recorded, but I think such folk-competitions go back further, Will.

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: GUEST,surreysinger sans cookie
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 03:49 PM

To be exact WAV, Joseph Taylor competed in the first Folk Song Competition at a Music festival in Brigg, Lincolnshire in 1905. The Festival (but not the folk song competition) had been running for a number of years and, I understand, still runs today. The Folk Song competition in Brigg ran for only two years. The first in 1905 was in part inspired by Percy Grainger, who attended alongside Frank Kidson. Grainger returned the following year, 1906, with Lucy Broadwood who was one of the competition judges, and Taylor again competed (but didn't win outright). There were no further folk song competitions in Brigg until much more recent years. You don't make it clear which particular recordings of Taylor you are referring to,(ie the ones in 1907 or 1908?), but if you care to consult the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library catalogue you will see that no original cylinder recordings are held there (although they do have copies of them, and copies of the various Leader and Topic LPs that were issued in the 1970s and subsequently. To the best of my knowledge (and I am not 100% certain of this) the originals are held in the Percy Grainger museum in Melbourne, not in the UK.

I have seen no evidence yet that any competitions of this sort existed before the start of the twentieth century and should be surprised if they did, as I believe they may have been started in response to the push to collect traditional songs before they died out which occurred at the end of the 19th century (around the same time as the formation of the Folk Song Society in 1898). So I too would be interested to hear your evidence for the existence of such competitions "for centuries" - at least as far as traditional song in this country is concerned.

Subject: RE: B.B.C. Folk Awards
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Nov 13 - 06:36 PM

Well, SSSC, 2 centuries is "centuries" but, frankly, I was under the (perhaps false) impression they had been going for longer...any one else..?