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Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...

YorkshireYankee 05 Dec 13 - 05:12 PM
GUEST,michaelr 05 Dec 13 - 07:35 PM
GUEST,leeneia 05 Dec 13 - 08:25 PM
Bill D 05 Dec 13 - 08:41 PM
Don Firth 05 Dec 13 - 09:45 PM
treewind 06 Dec 13 - 02:59 AM
MGM·Lion 06 Dec 13 - 04:51 AM
GUEST,Grishka 06 Dec 13 - 07:42 AM
YorkshireYankee 06 Dec 13 - 09:17 PM
treewind 07 Dec 13 - 08:33 AM
GUEST,Grishka 07 Dec 13 - 10:08 AM
Weasel 07 Dec 13 - 05:50 PM
GUEST,Grishka 07 Dec 13 - 06:53 PM
GUEST 07 Dec 13 - 07:19 PM
YorkshireYankee 09 Dec 13 - 09:24 PM
GUEST,Grishka 11 Dec 13 - 03:32 AM
YorkshireYankee 11 Dec 13 - 07:07 AM
Micca 12 Dec 13 - 01:22 AM
YorkshireYankee 15 Dec 13 - 12:08 PM
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Subject: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 05:12 PM

Pianist realises the orchestra has started the wrong concerto?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100243153/pianist-maria-joao-pires-panics-as-she-realises-the-orchestra-has-st

"This is quite extraordinary. The wonderful Maria Joćo Pires is ready to play a Mozart piano concerto with the Amsterdam Concertgebouw conducted by Riccardo Chailly, only to hear the orchestra begin playing another Mozart concerto ? no 20 in D minor, K466, not what she was expecting or had prepared for. Can you imagine her horror? You'll have to watch the film below to find out what happened next."


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 07:35 PM

Wow. That must have been scary for her. But what a pro! Amazing.


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 08:25 PM

What's even more extraordinary is that I have been hearing the same story (with only the names of the concertos changed) since 1967.


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 08:41 PM

Hmm... if there have been other 'stories' of such situations, then this video is amazing, as it 'seems' to be real. Are you saying this was staged? It is certainly convincing...........although the camera angles and conversations are unusual.


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 09:45 PM

Well spotted, Firth! I wondered about the way they were all dressed, especially the conductor!

The Rest of the Story.

She has been playing Mozart (and other) piano concertos since she was five years old, so it's highly likely that she really could have brought it off.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: treewind
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 02:59 AM

I have been hearing the same story (with only the names of the concertos changed) since 1967.

Me too. Then it was a violinist and they were playing the Brahms and Mendelssohn concertos in the same concert. He thought it was Brahms first (which has a long orchestral intro before the soloist comes in); when the orchestra started playing he had exactly two bars of music to catch on and start playing the Mendelssohn as if nothing had happened.

But it's the sort of thing that could have happened more than once...


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 04:51 AM

This appears as a news item in the Daily Telegraph of 26 Oct 2013. But the film it links to is ©-dated 1999.

So when did all this happen? And why is it being presented as a topical news item?

Some confusion somewhere, surely?

A similar story is told of the late Sir Thomas Beecham, taking his stand on the rostrum and saying to his leader "We start with the Figaro Overture, don't we?"

"No, Sir Thomas," said the leader, "Seraglio."

"Oh, said Beecham, and conducted the orchestra straight into that one.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 07:42 AM

The story "musical superhero saves performance from disastrous accident" is much older than 1967, it must date from the 18th century when such traveling virtuosi came into fashion and needed PR gimmicks. Paganini was a virtuoso also in that second discipline.

Stories of accidents, averted or not, true, embellished, or invented, are the staple of post-concert pub rounds. Most Mudcatters can tell them, and did so in other threads. Warning: like a good music performance, a good folk tale should have a powerful punchline beyond "s/he was so good ...".


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 09:17 PM

Thanks for that link, Mr Firth - well done!

I was thinking that if it's all a hoax, that woman is an even better actress than she is a pianist...

MtheGM wrote: So when did all this happen? And why is it being presented as a topical news item?

Good questions! I did notice that the film's date was 1999, and wonder about that... but didn't pursue it.

Still a great story, though...


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: treewind
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 08:33 AM

From the linked article:
"But all that aside, to have to jump in and play a concerto which you have not prepared, literally at the last minute. Isn't that superhuman?

A concert pianist of Pires' standing is expected to be able to play any of about 50 concertos at the drop of a hat, and as many more at short notice. But they would expect to have a minimum of one rehearsal before a concert, so the conductor and orchestra know what to expect.


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 10:08 AM

As mentioned in the above article, the video was in fact taken at the first rehearsal. The lady could have stopped the rehearsal and asked for the sheet music - expensive minutes would have been lost, that's all the risk. She decided that she remembered the concert well enough, having played it countless times.

Most solo concertos are such that learning them by heart is the least of the difficulties, and found advantageous.

The PR aspect comes in when the agent decided to publish the material (or to allow its publication), possibly filmed by a viola player as a private souvenir - they have nothing else to do, have they?


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: Weasel
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 05:50 PM

I've been an orchestral musician for nearly forty years and in that time we've never done a concerto in performance without a rehearsal beforehand. I find it hard to believe that this video represents a performance - Grishka's comment that it was at a rehearsal sounds right to me (and rehearsals are sometimes videod for documentary purposes.)

As for memorising a concerto, I'm not a soloist and I could probably play at least a dozen concerti from memory and so could most of the musicians I know - it's no more a feat than a folk singer getting up and doing a set without a crib sheet.

And viola players - one of the older Groves editions poses the suggestion that viola players are simply horn players who have lost their teeth and need to find something to do to earn a crust.

Cheers,

Weasel


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 06:53 PM

Watching the video once more, I realize it is cut from two cameras, presumably TV professionals who were also rehearsing their task. The main camera was placed near the violas, covering M. Chailly (who wears a sweatshirt and a towel round his neck!), the other one further right (or left, from the conductor's point of view).

The title of this thread is not conformal to the ways of concert business nowadays: the concerto played by a complete orchestra and conducted by a conductor who has a concept for the whole evening is certainly the "right" one; the information must have been corrupted on its way to the pianist when the concert was being planned, months earlier. In former centuries, however, soloists were always "right".


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 07:19 PM

Bringing it back to folk, it shows there are only a fistful of warhorses making up the classical repertoire, and probably fewer in total than in the folk repertoire - it probably evens up when themes are taken into account, though, as a symphony will have a fistful of "tunes" which get worked out in the rest of the piece, much like we'd do variations on a set.
Thankfully nobody expects us to don monkey-suits, though.


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 09:24 PM

Just realised I did not supply a proper blicky in my first post, so will remedy that now:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100243153/pianist-maria-joao-pires-panics-as-she-realises-the-orchestra-has-st

And Grishka - I suppose the title could have been:
"Pianist Maria Joćo Pires panics as she realises the orchestra has started a different concerto than the one she was expecting?"
or even:
"Pianist Maria Joćo Pires panics as she realises she has prepared to play the wrong concerto?"

But they don't grab one's attention in quite the same way, do they?

As for whether or not it is simply to be expected that a soloist can switch on a dime to play a concerto she was not expecting to play, I am still impressed.

Not to mention that the look on her face when she realises the orchestra is playing a different concerto than the one she prepared is priceless - and something I think most of us can relate to - whether or not we have ever been in that exact situation ourselves...


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 03:32 AM

YY, no criticism intended.

Playing music, even if only for a "dress" rehearsal (with an incredibly expensive conductor and orchestra!), takes mental preparation far beyond technical aspects. She probably "panicked" about that more than about her memory of the dots.

The anonymous guest points us to the unfortunate fact that the classical music business concentrates on a very small section of music, the Wild Rovers of Classic, so to speak. The corresponding concerts are a ritual of the bourgeoisie, and good music as a by-product. In most areas of Europe, there are plenty of performances of non-mainstream classical music, with formal and informal dress codes. You just have to look at the smaller posters. Guest seems to live in the USA, where excellent classical musicians abound as well, but there is more desert in between.


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 07:07 AM

Thanks, Grishka.


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: Micca
Date: 12 Dec 13 - 01:22 AM

I thought this might be what you were referring to It is from one of the Hoffnung Concerts " Concerto Popolare is that the orchestra believes it is playing Tchaikovsky's First Piano Concerto, but the pianist believes he or she is playing the Grieg Piano Concerto." It becomes a battle between Orchestra and Soloist and wrings in several other pieces of Music, all to great and smooth effect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVC1AkIJh68


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Subject: RE: Orchestra plays 'wrong' concerto...
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 15 Dec 13 - 12:08 PM

Very entertaining! Here's a blicky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVC1AkIJh68

Good to hear from you Micca - it's been a while...


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