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UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th

GUEST,punkfolkrocker 07 Dec 13 - 12:43 AM
GUEST,BanjoRay 07 Dec 13 - 04:21 AM
LesB 07 Dec 13 - 04:29 AM
GUEST,Graham Bradshaw 07 Dec 13 - 04:30 AM
GUEST 07 Dec 13 - 04:30 AM
Marje 07 Dec 13 - 04:45 AM
Richard Bridge 07 Dec 13 - 06:00 AM
Big Al Whittle 07 Dec 13 - 06:26 AM
Dave Sutherland 07 Dec 13 - 08:12 AM
GUEST,Ed 07 Dec 13 - 05:23 PM
Eric the Viking 07 Dec 13 - 06:03 PM
selby 07 Dec 13 - 06:15 PM
GUEST,Guest 07 Dec 13 - 08:58 PM
stallion 08 Dec 13 - 05:03 AM
Nigel Paterson 08 Dec 13 - 05:40 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 08 Dec 13 - 06:09 AM
Dave Hanson 08 Dec 13 - 06:55 AM
GUEST,ST 08 Dec 13 - 07:00 AM
Big Al Whittle 08 Dec 13 - 08:57 AM
Van 08 Dec 13 - 09:20 AM
Big Al Whittle 08 Dec 13 - 09:34 AM
Edthefolkie 08 Dec 13 - 09:47 AM
GUEST 08 Dec 13 - 10:04 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 08 Dec 13 - 01:09 PM
GUEST,Chris Murray 08 Dec 13 - 01:51 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 08 Dec 13 - 02:09 PM
Eric the Viking 08 Dec 13 - 02:14 PM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 08 Dec 13 - 03:06 PM
The Sandman 08 Dec 13 - 04:01 PM
Van 08 Dec 13 - 05:42 PM
Big Al Whittle 08 Dec 13 - 06:20 PM
GUEST 08 Dec 13 - 06:26 PM
GUEST,Ed 08 Dec 13 - 07:02 PM
Will Fly 09 Dec 13 - 04:55 AM
GUEST,Jim I 09 Dec 13 - 05:02 AM
GUEST 09 Dec 13 - 05:21 AM
Van 09 Dec 13 - 05:48 AM
Will Fly 09 Dec 13 - 05:53 AM
Keith A of Hertford 09 Dec 13 - 06:02 AM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 09 Dec 13 - 06:12 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 09 Dec 13 - 06:53 AM
Will Fly 09 Dec 13 - 07:13 AM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 09 Dec 13 - 07:48 AM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 09 Dec 13 - 07:53 AM
Mr Red 09 Dec 13 - 08:39 AM
GUEST 09 Dec 13 - 10:05 AM
Big Al Whittle 09 Dec 13 - 10:47 AM
GUEST,Ed 09 Dec 13 - 11:02 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Dec 13 - 11:12 AM
Phil Edwards 09 Dec 13 - 11:38 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 09 Dec 13 - 11:46 AM
GUEST 09 Dec 13 - 12:31 PM
GUEST,Allan Conn 09 Dec 13 - 12:33 PM
Jack Blandiver 09 Dec 13 - 12:46 PM
Pete Jennings 09 Dec 13 - 01:01 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Dec 13 - 01:19 PM
Will Fly 09 Dec 13 - 01:19 PM
Big Al Whittle 10 Dec 13 - 07:06 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Dec 13 - 03:40 AM
Nigel Paterson 11 Dec 13 - 05:36 AM
Big Al Whittle 11 Dec 13 - 06:53 AM
Dave Sutherland 11 Dec 13 - 07:46 AM
Big Al Whittle 11 Dec 13 - 07:55 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 11 Dec 13 - 08:09 AM
C Stuart Cook 12 Dec 13 - 07:15 AM
Big Al Whittle 12 Dec 13 - 12:41 PM
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Subject: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 12:43 AM

Just noticed whilst checking tomorrow's Radio Times before going to bed..

Don't blame me if it's shite......

http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/cqp2dk/get-folked-the-great-folk-revival

If you neeeeed to have a row about this with with anyone,
that'll be some critic bloke James Gill @ the above Radio Times link

- so far no comments in the discussion at the bottom of the link...


#####################################################################


"http://www.forfolkssake.com/news/25956/news-more-4-hosts-folk-night-on-saturday-7th-december

More 4 are hosting a folk night this Saturday 7th December with three programmes all about how excellent folk is. Clue: it's REALLY excellent.

Get Folked: The Great Folk Revival

A documentary about ALL THE FOLK with interviews and performances from Richard Thompson, Jake Bugg, Frank Turner, The Unthanks, Alt-J and Seth Lakeman.

The programme asks, "is folk the antidote to manufactured music, the new punk, or simply evidence of the enduring appeal of this age-old musical form?"

iTunes Festival Folk Special

Our favourite Lauren Laverne introduces some of the best folky performances from this year's iTunes Festival. With performances from Jack Johnson, Jake Bugg, The Lumineers, Bahamas and Phox.

Big Easy Express

Leaving the best til last, the iTunes performances are followed by the documentary about Mumford & Sons' Railroad Revival Tour.

Big Easy Express followed Mumford & Sons, Edward Sharpe & the Magnetic Zeros and Old Crow Medicine Show on their train tour across America. The three bands played six cities, travelling thousands of miles of railway on board a beautiful vintage train.

Folk night starts at 10pm on More 4 this Saturday 7 December.
"


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,BanjoRay
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 04:21 AM

What have Mumford and Sons got to do with folk music?
Don't all shout at once......


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: LesB
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 04:29 AM

What have any of them to do with folk, It's just journalists looking for 'new ' labels.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,Graham Bradshaw
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 04:30 AM

With a name like BanjoRay, you should know. They play the banjo. Everybody knows that automatically makes them 'folk'.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 04:30 AM

Sent sky plus thanks!


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Marje
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 04:45 AM

Well, although it will probably not be "authentic" enough for my taste, I'll give it a listen. My daughter has already introduced me to Jake Bugg, so I'm keeping an open mind.

Even if the distinguishing characteristics of "folk" in thsi instance are simply that singers use their own, distinctive voices, and that you can hear the words of their songs, and that nobody performs with half-naked backing singers[1], that's got to be a big inprovement on much of what passes for popular music.

[1] Probably even more important in traditional circles. I think if I invited my fellow-folkies to start stripping off and gyrating in the pub while I sang, we'd soon be out on the street!


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 06:00 AM

[1] I can think of four folkies or Morris Dancers (female) from Kent and around who if denuding themselves would deserve a good audience - and one at least male who seems to possess magnetic abs judging by the females who stick to them...

And who knows I MIGHT listen to the "folk" above described, later.   If my Criminal Minds DVDs don't arrive.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 06:26 AM

Saturday night telly is for people with kids who can't go out and people with drink problems who are so pissed they can't drive anywhere decent.

it got as near to folk music asits ever likely to, with Val Doonican and The Younger Generation.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 08:12 AM

Oh Damn - I'm at one of our residents 60th birthday tonight so it looks like I'll miss it; even so I can't think that it would keep me from MOD or The Football League Show. Anyway Jake Bugg is a Nottingham lad and in his early stages he was heavily promoted by The Nottingham Post (my paper) and by BBC East Midlands Radio. This is the first occasion that I have seen him referred to as "folk"; as for Mumford and Son.......


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 05:23 PM

Oh dear...

20 minutes in, when will the hatred begin?

Sorry, my mistake. Al Whittle has already started...


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 06:03 PM

As some one who doesn't drink, the kids have grown up and left, not pissed and don't need to drive anywhere, Mrs Viking is reading her Kobo, I am quite happy watching a bit of Saturday tele !! (Well this bit anyway) I just enjoyed seeing John Martyn as a young man in his prime. I was really impressed by Newton Faulkner's version of "May you never". (I'm not into N F) It's very general and really ignores the fact that there are thousands of competent (And not so competent singers and players) who play and sing every week in folk clubs. Don't know what Bob Geldof has to do with it really. The programme really only plays to the popular culture bit. Perhaps it's the new face of folk or the next bit of evolution?


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: selby
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 06:15 PM

Hi Eric hope you are keeping well I take the view there is no such thing as bad publicity, I will put a but in though, I think acoustic music and folk music got a bit blurred.
Keith


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 08:58 PM

Didn't realise Blur were on.

But then I had already decided it was not for me.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: stallion
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 05:03 AM

Was it about where the genre is going with the new generation? Or is this a subculture of kids stripping back the layers of electronica to find a fresher sound to be different, recycling! Someone likened it to the accessibility of punk to everybody having access to making "music" why not go the whole hog and abandon the instrument and use just use voices! I only watched half of it cos match of the day had a greater pull!


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 05:40 AM

If this is the 'Folk Revival' of the 21st century, it bares little resemblance to the 'Folk Revival' of the 20th century (the late 50s/60s). Acoustic instruments ruled the roost. There was a desire to preserve & protect the songs which seems to be giving way to performance/production values. I heard a lot of folk songs in the programme, but I'm not sure that what I heard was folk music. I made a modest contribution to the original revival. That was enough for me.
                                          Nigel Paterson (Mandolin, 'The Halliard')


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 06:09 AM

Just another occasion where the word Folk is misused to mean singer/songwriter. Undoubtedly some talented musicians in the programme but of very limited appeal. We were told at the beginning that folk music is now more popular than ever????
I also wonder at the knowledge of the presenters:

"Woody Guthrie along with fellow Southerners" ??

Vashti Bunyan "crossed the length of the country" do we cross a length?

Was it really punk that showed people that they could attempt music without any musical knowledge or skill? I thought that that happened in the skiffle era.

OK so maybe I'm nitpicking but it would help to have someone who knows the subject to present it.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 06:55 AM

iTunes Festival appeared to be an acoustic pop music show.

The programme before it, although it played some decent folk music, made no bones about its emphasis being acoustic pop [ and much of it not acoustic ]

Dave H


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,ST
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 07:00 AM

I thought it was quite interesting myself. I try to avoid the word "folk" most of the time as it just starts the sort of arguments that I see here on many Mudcat threads and I'm afraid I have a very narrow range of musical enjoyment, (basically singarounds and sessions with no electrics; no amplification, no introspective lyrics etc etc), but it was good to see what "the media" now means by folk.

So, if you haven't watched it, I'd say "Give it a viewing" – it doesn't really matter if it doesn't fit your (my) definition; it's likely to be what the majority of people mean.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 08:57 AM

Well I still think it was worth a bit of hatred.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Van
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 09:20 AM

Like all music programmes. I enjoyed the bits I liked but not the rest.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 09:34 AM

Oh I dunno. I loved the great folk artists that I knew in the 70's an 80's. really talented blokes and women who could never get a gig in the days when Martin Carthy didn't reckon even Tom Paxton was a folksinger.

So now all these blokes get the nod of approval. The real difference is I suppose they got major record company interest - so they never had to count on folk clubs opening their ears. Never had to beg for agig - for recognition.

What ever folk music is, its edgier than this stuff and probably edgier than the stuff Cecil Sharp creamed his jeans over.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 09:47 AM

The revival programme was a bit predictable but worth if for Swarb's, as ever, apposite and amusing remarks.

As he said recently on F'book - "How the f**** do I do it?" How indeed.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 10:04 AM

Obviously don't read this blog from the comments on guitars selling like never before. Probably cheaper than British Gas.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 01:09 PM

I walked in JUST as Ade Edmondson was starting to talk about the Folk Police, followed by Martin Carthy speaking on the same subject...and I was WhoopWhoopWHOOOPING around my lounge in Grateful Delight..because the very kind of folks they were talking about are the very kind who have been following me around for YEARS, in here, on the BBC...and it was SO GOOD to hear these two men speaking the truth..and about Ewan MacColl too, who, in my book, was a bully and an OCD bully at that....

Viva Show of Hands and their Breaking It All Apart!
Viva Seth Lakeman!
Viva Dylan going electric!
And Viva ALL those who stand up to the pedantic, controlling minds that for WAY too long have kept this beautiful music shut away from the world....


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 01:51 PM

Haven't watched it yet but looking forward to it. I'm just glad when the occasional programme about folk music is on the telly. I've got no time for those who only watch them to sneer and moan.

Are people still banging on about the Folk Police?


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 02:09 PM

Oh YES! Ade and Martin did a FINE job last night...Well done to them!


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 02:14 PM

Hiya Keith. Still alive and just about kicking. I did notice one band who were completely missed out , The Levellers.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 03:06 PM

Re MacColl and alleged folk bullying. I suppose if people have got nothing better to fill a programme with they've got nothing better to fill a programme with.

Glad I didn't watch. What does Ade Edmondson know about MacColl anyway?


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 04:01 PM

i met MacColl, and although i think he was fine singwriter and good performer, my first encounter with him put me off ever visiting the singers club.
I decided to go where I thought there would be some fun, where there would be girls of a similiar age and people having a good time, MacColl was even more patronising than my father.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Van
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 05:42 PM

Fred, Ade knows how to make money from TV companies. His agent must be good to get him on as a folk guru.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 06:20 PM

well he's been on telly so he's got to bypass the boring bit about learning your instrument well enough to have something to say artistically. another way is apparently to have major record company interest.

so Patrick Walker and Sunjay Brain don't get on telly and this lot do.

To be honest I don't really see much difference between the Simon Cowell product and this lot.

Iknow, everybody really gets their desserts -but Gerry lockran, Roger Brooks and Eric Roche never got any BBC television time.

Angry...?just a bit.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 06:26 PM

So do something about it. It's only Channel 4, after all, not exactly the home of great authority.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 07:02 PM

It was Channel 5, for what it's worth.

To be honest I don't really see much difference between the Simon Cowell product and this lot

Really? If you can't see the difference between Martin Carthy and Alexandra Burke, I feel a little sorry for you.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 04:55 AM

It was actually Channel More 4.

In the end, when you get to a certain level in the 'I'm-filling-a-stadium' circuit, then it's all product, no matter what the content or the style. Nothing wrong with that but, when the programme narrator started talking nonsense about "modern troubadours" and "getting closer to basics with acoustic instruments", then I lost the will to live.

I have several beautiful acoustic instruments which I play regularly. But there's also absolutely nothing more gut-basic than thrashing 3 chords on a Fender Strat in a crowded pub on a Saturday night with serried ranks of teds and rockers bopping away in front of you! Let's not dress music up in clichés, just play the bloody stuff.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,Jim I
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 05:02 AM

Only watched part of it so far but really enjoyed a brief clip of Edinburgh's Bill Barclay singing (the one with the moustache/sometime desk sergeant in Taggart!)and an even briefer clip of Harry Dawson and friends on the tiny stage at the Waverley Bar in Edinburgh. Both clips from the late 60's.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 05:21 AM

Perhaps that's the common ground missed by all these rewarmed 1960s sociological claptrap studies - folk is about JFDI reality.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Van
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 05:48 AM

Will, Lou Reed once said if you used 3 chords it was jazz!


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 05:53 AM

Well... the mistakes became jazz... :-)


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 06:02 AM

Did anyone manage to identify the badge on Richard Thompson's beret?
It was not the star as worn by Che .
Frank Spencer perhaps.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 06:12 AM

Van, you've about hit the nail on the head. Ade thingy's appearance on the programme had nothing to do with any authority or expertise he may or probably may not hold on the subject of folk song. It's the old story of celebrity talking heads = viewing figures. Doesn't matter a twopenny damn if said talking head actually contributes anything worth while. Just so long as Joe Public can say "Saw Ade what's his name on telly last night. Said something funny about folk police."

(Thinks:-

It's legal to sing on the telly
But they make bloody sure that you don't
If you sing about racist & fascist & creeps
And thieves in high places who live off the weak
And those who are selling us right up the creek
The twisters, the takers, the con men, the fakers
The whole bloody gang of exploiters.) Ewan MacColl.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 06:53 AM

Teehee...looks like Ade and Martin have unleashed a few sensitive nerves....

Ewan MacColl was a pedantic twit..
OK, he got folks singing in accents, searching songs out etc..but sadly, he drew in the VERY same kind of people around him, those who are themselves utterly pedantic and who will hang, draw and quarter someone for liking the WRONG kind of music, the WRONG kind of folk musicians...

Geezus, up until this point, folks just sat down and played music together, and that music and song was constantly evovlving, being the music of the people....but the Pedantic Ones came on board....the sorts who truly believed, as Martin spoke of, that SATAN was inside electric music...

I liked the WRONG kind of folk music, being that I supported Show of Hands and Seth Lakeman, both of whom, so Ian Anderson of fRooty Towers stated, on the BBC board, had 'got in under the radar'...

And for that, for DARING to stand up these kinds of minds for YEARS, I have been verbally crucified, lied about, bullied, belittled and become their prey....

I have NEVER been their 'victim' though and that truly enrages those who are haven't yet died off..to the point of them continuing to froth at the mouth....

Seth Lakeman, in particular, has done more to bring in YOUNG people to folk music, than most other musicians out there...and Seth brings them in from all walks of life, not just the Traddie world, as Bellowhead tend to...Seth blew it all apart, but HE got blown apart by The Folk Police ONLY because he had DARED to sign a recording contract with Warner Brothers, whilst in Equation...and because he is good looking and also signed with EMI.

I'm still recovering from watching Folk Britannia years back and seeing people who looked more like Cadavers sitting on chairs, earnestly listening to dear Pete Seeger who was bopping around merrily with his guitar and singing, smiling out to a sea of Cadavered Faces, expressionless, intent and more than a little bit scary, to be honest....

Folk music got taken over by the OCD Academics! It was taken AWAY from The People and became a closed shop to a select few who were ONLY allowed in under the radar if they fitted the OCD list of Rules And Regulations as to exactly 'What Folk Music Is'...and that list was started by Bullyboy Ewan whose own daughter was frightened of him at times....

Thank GOD it's now FREE!!


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 07:13 AM

Ah, Lizzie - if only it was free. I've no idea what you might pay for a ticket to watch a folk performance in a stadium. :-)

Personally, I like my acoustic music (I won't call it folk) in sessions and singarounds in pubs, with a variety of instruments and styles of performances. At my own packed session in my village last night we had fiddles, guitars, a mandolin, a concertina and a melodeon, and we played a mixture of traditional English stuff, American stuff, blues, jazz and a touch of Cole Porter (me, I'm afraid, guilty as charged!).

No rules. Play and sing as you feel. Enjoy the company. Have a drink and share the jokes and laughter. Go home at the end of the evening feeling good and looking forward to the next one. That's what it's all about. And, in the end, no amount of discussing the pros and cons of Ade and Martin and Bob and Whatsisname matters a toss.

"If you end up with a boring miserable life because you listened to your mom, your dad, your teacher, your priest, or some guy on television telling you how to do your shit, then you deserve it."
― Frank Zappa


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 07:48 AM

Jesus Lizzie. I think you ought to stay out of the sun! Let's just ignore all the invective and all the crap about bullyboys for a moment.

Let's consider instead the reverse side of the coin. I have been involved in folk music for about fifty years now and I am a dyed in the wool straight from the wood traddie. I am not interested in contemporary singers, music hall singers, comedians, country and western cowboys, or people who use floor spots to unravel their own particular neuroses. In other words, I regard myself as being pretty much what it's supposed to say on the folk revival tin - someone who sings traditional folksongs in a reasonably authentic manner.

Yet I long ago lost count of the slings and arrows and carping and criticism and snide remarks which I have had to suffer from contemporary singers, music hall singers, comedians, country and western cowboys and people who use floor spots to unravel their own peculiar neuroses.

NB. I am not intolerant of people who choose to work in other musical genres, only of those appallingly bad performers who seem quite happy to inflict the direst drivel imaginable on their audiences, and who show no desire to learn or to improve.

Why? well it turns out that said sling and arrow merchants usually criticise me so because:-

- They don't like long boring ballads.
- They don't like Irish songs.
- They don't like unaccompanied singers.
- They don't like folksongs.

Honest. I have had people come up to me in folk clubs and tell me that they would rather not have to suffer The Seeds Of Love or The Outlandish Knight or whatever. Yes, I know. it makes you wonder what they were doing in folk clubs in the first place.

In other words, there is a large measure of intolerance in the folk revival and it is directed towards traditional song and it largely emanates from contemporary singers, music hall singers, comedians, country and western cowboys and people who use floor spots to unravel their own particular neuroses.

In other words those people who make carping remarks about folk police would do well to take a long hard look in the mirror.

BTW. Are you having trouble with your keyboard? It keeps setting bits of the text in capitals for no apparent reason.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 07:53 AM

Hang on. I've got it. The bits in caps are there to indicate that the poster is feeling intolerant. Wanna borrow a mirror Lizzie?


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 08:39 AM

What I've seen of Jake Bugg I wouldn't class him as Folk, but I've seen enough to be sure he could go in any direction and be respected. I assume he is a singer-songwriter and that means he has a home in the broad Church that is Folk.

I was too busy dancing at Stroud Ceilidhs.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 10:05 AM

It's not that there should be no place for anything that isn't folk, it's that they started to take over and define English Folk as American Folk. When you kill the Roots, you kill the tree.
Different people experience the Roots differently, and so express themselves differently, fair enough. Nor do we know what the Roots were in an absolute form. What we do with them can also differ.
But there's no point as it's not crap to talk about the bullyboys: another bunch are killing the genre now, you know who they are. A very different bunch from the 1960s, sure, but they still make it pointless to try if you're not one of them.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 10:47 AM

fred and lizzie - you feel persecuted. on this thread I have been condescended to by mr.ed = afamous talking horse. he pities me.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 11:02 AM

No lasting bad feelings I trust, Mr Whittle? No offence was meant.

another bunch are killing the genre now, you know who they are

I, for one don't. Would you care to elucidate?


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 11:12 AM

Music is good. All of it. Some I like better than others but I would not decry the bits I don't or the performers of it. I truly do not understand who these 'Folk Police' are supposed to be apart from the Manchester based company marketing all sorts of new and very good folk related music. I have never been told I cannot sing in a certain way or sing certain songs. Apart from here on Mudcat I have never been told what I am supposed to like and dislike. And then only by people who believe their likes are better than mine.

Ade Edmundson is, as was said earlier, a professional performer and I am pretty sure that these 'folk police' have not prevented him from earning any money in this field. Martin Carthy is, in my opinion, one of the best performers folk music and a fine guitarist to boot. This sinister organisation that, apparently, prevent people from singing what they like does not seem to have done any harm either. Ewan MacColl wrote some wonderful songs and performs them brilliantly on the recordings I have heard. Of the three I have only ever met Martin Carthy and he is a very pleasant and knowledgeable person.

I just cannot understand people who want to justify their dislikes and try to make other people believe that the performers or music they do not like are somehow inferior. Still, I live in the knowledge that those who resort to this invective and start to foam at the mouth cannot be happy with their lot. I am :-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 11:38 AM

I have never been told I cannot sing in a certain way or sing certain songs.

I started a thread once asking for Folk Police stories - all the times people have been told (or told other people) that they can't play X or Y because it's Not Folk.

Total number of times people remembered this happening: none.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 11:46 AM

ok, well I started this thread
and I've not even got round to watching any of these TV shows yet...

..except just to test if our brand new Humax freeview recorder was working properly, or not;
that long drawn out irritatingly trite opening credit sequence
of the mumpsford's train travelog.

If I was the train ticket inspector
I'd have made that bloody silly skipping prancing girly girl sit down
before she tripped and caused an accident....


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 12:31 PM

DtG is partly there.
A small share of the music industry makes people very rich. It's like any industry, the big houses (or famiglia) take it for themselves and force rivals out. I've experienced it for myself, having been warned by a number of friends in the alternative folk scene who've had the same happen to them.
More worrying is that Eliza appointed Katy to tap the Arts Council for subsidies which haven't happened, because Common Purpose are tapping them for their own ends. Every top-level administrator I've come across in the interfaces between the Folk Administrations and the Arts Council are part of that group. Katy is, Carol Main (Live Music Now Scotland) is, I know who in TRAC (Wales) is. Having infiltrated the BBC, they set out to alter the zeitgeist in their favour by infiltrating the Arts Council and setting the agenda.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 12:33 PM

"Was it really punk that showed people that they could attempt music without any musical knowledge or skill? I thought that that happened in the skiffle era."

Suppose it depends on what 'people' you are talking about? ie what generation you are and what context you are talking about! I'm in my early 50s and was 16/17 in 1976/77. I did't really know much about skiffle but punk was there as a basic antidote to the excesses of some of the progrock etc.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 12:46 PM

Total number of times people remembered this happening: none.

I could tell you a few!


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 01:01 PM

"Total number of times people remembered this happening: none."

I certainly remember one occasion, at The Navigation in Bristol, circa 1979/80. Wasn't aimed at me, I was there as a punter, but I never went back.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 01:19 PM

I am sure a lot of people can provide their own anecdotes but I would not see any such evidence as proof that the 'folk police' exist. I and many others can probably relate more anecdotes of being made welcome at folk clubs all over the country and being privileged enough to be able to perform whatever we want. And, for me anyway, that probably is quite far from a lot of definitions of folk or good music! :-)

More to the point, any folk club or organisation that does not move with the times is destined for failure so any that stood still will probably not be around any more. Any performer who stands still will suffer a similar fate and any that find that they are not welcome at the majority of venues are, sadly, probably not performing in the right arena. Neither Ade, Martin nor Ewan, three completely different styles, seem to have suffered from this which should tell us something about how acceptant the general folk audience is.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 01:19 PM

Just very occasionally over 40 years I've had some disapproving looks from dyed-in-the-wool traditionalists when I've played some of my stuff in a folk club or a singaround. I suppose I could understand their attitude, but I can't say I ever paid any attention to it!


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Dec 13 - 07:06 PM

well its a bit weird really. there are intolerant people at every level of the folk world.

its so sad because the factionalism makes it so easy for our many enemies - and that's not just paranoia. the music business is the most competitive scene in the world - 1st division football included.

our enemies envy the creative opportunities, the platforms, the fame and prestige without mass record sales, the longevity of the performing careers.

the pettiness and factionalism makes us politically unimportant.

every time I see a so called folk music fan with no respect for other artists that have laboured mightily in the English folk club system, my hear sinks. sorry Fred (sneering at coffee bar cowboys) and Lizzie (sneering at the sublimely talented Ewan MacColl). And yes Ewan did piss some people off - but two wrongs don't make a right.

Just because we don't have the same beliefs about the nature of folk music shouldn't blind us to the great confluence of interest inside the artistic movement known as folk music.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 03:40 AM

there are intolerant people at every level of the folk world

I agree with that but, surely, there are intolerant people at every level of the world in general. By intimating it only affects the 'folk world' are we not making a rod for our own backs?

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 05:36 AM

Tangentially, but just about 'on thread', I recently visited a well known music shop in London to buy some new mandolin strings. The brand I wanted were out of stock. They had all been purchased by Ade Edmundson! Clearly, he's serious about his mandolin playing (-;


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 06:53 AM

well yes, but we could achieve - our own political lobby - so much more - have our own tv channels - if we were united about the importance of our music.

instead we trash our fellow users of the folk clubs -make derogatory remarks about their artistic importance.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 07:46 AM

Finally caught up with it last night and it certainly didn't tell us anything that we didn't already know. Unfortunately there were the same old clichés, same old stereotypes and same old hype surrounding some of these fresh new faces who are going to turn the folk scene on its head; and in twelve months time we'll be wondering who the hell they were.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 07:55 AM

I didn't like that it made the old guard look like shit. I'm sure Jake Bugg and Newton Faulkner will be around a long time. they can both play.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Dec 13 - 08:09 AM

"Tangentially, but just about 'on thread', I recently visited a well known music shop in London to buy some new mandolin strings. The brand I wanted were out of stock. They had all been purchased by Ade Edmundson! Clearly, he's serious about his mandolin playing (-;"

- serious ? or downright selfish seeing as he can easily afford to strip the shop of them all,
plus can no doubt offset the cost against claimable tax allowances ???

Ade Edmundson seems an interstingly oportunistic character.

He rode to fame in the early 80's in an act called "The Dangerous Brothers";
a name [allegedly] 'appropriated' from a Somerset based cult New Wave Band,
with a penchant for on-stage dangerously stupid comical stunts,
which he 'may' have seen at a University gig in Manchester whilst still a student there ???

He was sheepishly silent on this matter when recently questioned
in a friendly non accusatory manner by formative members of the band....

Likewise he seems perfectly happy enough to 'appropriate' a position
as a celebrity serious 'spokesperson' for UK Folk Music
on flimsily cobbled together mainstream TV music programs....

An opportunity handed to him on a plate by lazy media journalists and booking agents.

Oh yeah, and.. it's definitely a fortuitous coincidence one of his daughters
is an up and coming new young folk performer.......


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: C Stuart Cook
Date: 12 Dec 13 - 07:15 AM

I can't be bothered to read through the bitter, pithy, sarcy cooments that the original info was good enough to put.

All three programmes were excellent in their own way and I'm very glad that I watched them all. Especially Big Easy Express with The OLd Crow Medicine Show in full fiddlin' flow.


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Subject: RE: UK TV More 4 folk night on Sat 7th
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Dec 13 - 12:41 PM

that famous trad folk song......the bitter pithy


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