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The Train and the River

GUEST,Geoffrey Steinherz 02 Jan 14 - 04:34 AM
GUEST,Mike Yates 02 Jan 14 - 07:24 AM
Will Fly 02 Jan 14 - 09:08 AM
Bat Goddess 02 Jan 14 - 09:42 AM
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Subject: The Train and the River
From: GUEST,Geoffrey Steinherz
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 04:34 AM

Dear Mudcats,

I am looking for a folk song antecedent to The Train and the River, by Jimmy Giuffre. In descritions of the piece it is referred to as being based on a "tradional folk song". The only folk song that has a title that comes near is New River Train. I don't hear any resemblance, though.
For any ideas I would be grateful, maybe giving the Giuffre tune a listen on youtube might jog someone's associative matrix,

thanks,

Geoff Steinherz


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Subject: RE: The Train and the River
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 07:24 AM

I have listened to, and enjoyed, Jimmy Giuffre's "Train and the River" for well on a half a century (ever since the 1958 Newport Jazz Festival recording was made), but have never heard mention of the tune having a folksong base. It is, of course, possible...I currently have the track on the CD "The Swamp People" (Giant Steps GSCR 030), which makes no mention of a folk origin in the CD's booklet notes. Thinking about it, though, I do wonder whether or not Giuffre had heard any recordings by some of the early blues harmonica players, such as Jaybird Coleman or Noah Lewis?


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Subject: RE: The Train and the River
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 09:08 AM

There's a definite down-home feel to the piece, and I incline to Mike Yates's idea of a harmonica influence - think of the number of "train" pieces on blues harp by the likes of Sonny Terry, etc. The chordings on the faster parts of the piece are very harp-like.


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Subject: RE: The Train and the River
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 09:42 AM

But does "The Train and the River" vocal (as recorded by The Stone Poneys/Linda Ronstadt) have a folksong base? It's a totally different piece of music from Jimmy Giuffre's jazz...

Linn


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